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GSLevel9 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 01:11 AM Original message |
Hey just curious... who WAS the dummy that thought it's constitutional to force people to buy smthg? |
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Tx4obama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 02:11 AM Response to Original message |
1. There is 'precedent' in U.S. law for a mandate - see link below |
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Philippine expat (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:46 PM Response to Reply #1 |
60. Big difference |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 09:57 PM Response to Reply #1 |
65. You had to go back to 1792. |
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lynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 10:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
67. LOL! 1792! There was a precedent in U.S. Law for slavery and not allowing women to vote - |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 07:03 AM Response to Original message |
2. The entire country of Switzerland.... |
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awoke_in_2003 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 06:22 PM Response to Reply #2 |
22. in countries like Switzerland and Holland... |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 09:20 PM Response to Reply #2 |
26. It is not similar at all, becasue there, profit is not allowed on |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:22 AM Response to Reply #2 |
39. USA is like 100 times bigger than Switzerland |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 09:25 AM Response to Reply #39 |
48. Size alone dictates the potential for lower, not higher rates... |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 12:36 PM Response to Reply #39 |
55. A country so homogeneous that they have 4 official languages. |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 02:12 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. When I was in Geneva, everyone spoke English |
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Diclotican (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 03:23 AM Response to Reply #39 |
78. golfguru |
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doc03 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 07:50 AM Response to Original message |
3. Wasn't that one of the Republican ideas Obama adopted |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 07:59 AM Response to Reply #3 |
4. No, it was actually Hillary's idea |
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bbgrunt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 08:18 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. It was part of Hillary's plan that O firmly opposed during the primary debates. |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 08:20 AM Response to Reply #6 |
7. Correct n/t |
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awoke_in_2003 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 06:23 PM Response to Reply #6 |
23. some have forgotten that. nt |
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woolldog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:10 PM Response to Reply #4 |
12. Hillary got the idea from republicans. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:17 AM Response to Reply #12 |
34. The mandate idea saves billions. |
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Marnie (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:06 PM Response to Reply #34 |
59. Since it has not been implemented it saves nothing and |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 08:38 PM Response to Reply #59 |
64. No one felt that universal was possible except for the Progressive Caucus. |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 09:59 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. There's a difference between the government pooling all our resources |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 11:28 PM Response to Reply #66 |
73. Regardless non-mandate programs are more costly than mandated programs. |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 05:17 PM Response to Reply #73 |
88. Of course it is completely untenable to have a for-profit opt-in system. |
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 08:17 AM Response to Original message |
5. Paul Krugman is one |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 08:36 AM Response to Original message |
8. President George Washington |
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Tx4obama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 03:34 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. See comment #1 |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 09:24 PM Response to Reply #9 |
27. So this mandate is something like conscription in our early days |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:10 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. Nothing in there about taking whatever rifle their employer selected. |
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Moostache (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 11:21 AM Response to Reply #8 |
86. Hmmm....VERY specific about what ARMS citizens were to bear. |
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woolldog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:06 PM Response to Original message |
10. It won't pass constitutional muster. |
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Tx4obama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:13 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. It WILL pass constitutional muster. |
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woolldog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:22 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. I've read your comments. |
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killbotfactory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:16 PM Response to Original message |
14. If a public option could have gotten through congress, losing the mandate wouldn't be a big deal |
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DrToast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:32 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. The public option doesn't replace a mandate |
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killbotfactory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 05:13 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. It would give the poor a place to go for health insurance. |
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DrToast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 05:16 PM Response to Reply #19 |
20. It wouldn't be affordable if people could go in and out at will |
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killbotfactory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 05:27 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. No one would buy it if they don't mind the hassle of dodging medical bills, i guess. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:23 AM Response to Reply #21 |
40. Only way to make it affordable is 1) make it public and 2) mandate it. |
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bornskeptic (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 02:43 AM Response to Reply #19 |
32. Poor people would pay exactly the same amount for the public option as for private insurance. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:21 AM Response to Reply #32 |
38. Private insurance has investors to look out for. |
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bornskeptic (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 07:18 AM Response to Reply #38 |
47. That's not the point. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:20 AM Response to Reply #19 |
37. Agreed, HCR doesn't have a solid public option. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:19 AM Response to Reply #17 |
36. Correct, for the same reasons Single Payer wouldn't work if everyone didn't pay. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:18 AM Response to Reply #14 |
35. There is a public option option, it's state-level. Slower to adopt, but inevitable. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:19 PM Response to Original message |
15. Why the 11th Circuit’s Opinion Self-Destructs |
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DrToast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 04:32 PM Response to Original message |
18. Who thought it was constitutional? Pretty much everyone until Obama wanted to do it. |
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former9thward (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 08:29 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. Pretty much no one thought the federal government could mandate |
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DrToast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 08:43 PM Response to Reply #24 |
25. Oh really... |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 09:30 PM Response to Reply #25 |
28. Why do polilticians promote things? Contributions. |
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Mimosa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 01:51 AM Response to Reply #28 |
74. ^ I remember that. ^ |
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former9thward (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 09:49 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. You may wish to cite Republicans as great Constitutional authorities. I don't. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:24 AM Response to Reply #24 |
42. Which is precisely why HCR has a state option public option. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-11 09:32 PM Response to Original message |
29. World opinion is that to mandate purchase of for profit products |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:26 AM Response to Reply #29 |
44. you nailed it.....what we have is mandated profits for insurance companies |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 02:11 AM Response to Original message |
31. So I don't have to buy a military, or a pension plan? |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 05:52 PM Response to Reply #31 |
61. Exactly. We are all forced to buy tons of things all the time. |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 06:13 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. I can see a viable argument in "buying from the government" vs. "buying private". |
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Starbucks Anarchist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:06 AM Response to Original message |
33. Single Payer and Medicare for all have no chance in hell of getting through Congress. |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:25 AM Response to Reply #33 |
43. and mandates have no chance to get by SCOTUS n/t |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 09:26 AM Response to Reply #43 |
49. DU takea a bold stand for the pre 2009 status quo! |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:24 AM Response to Original message |
41. I agree...single payer far superior to mandates n/t |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:28 AM Response to Reply #41 |
46. Single payer requires a mandate, it's just a mandate for a single public pool of payers. |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 09:27 AM Response to Reply #46 |
50. Under medicare for all there is no mandate.... |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 02:09 PM Response to Reply #46 |
56. You overlooked the huge difference between single payer & Obamacare |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 08:35 PM Response to Reply #56 |
63. "Obamacare" as you laughably call it has a *state option public option*. |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 11:16 PM Response to Reply #63 |
69. Have you paid attention to recent profits of private insurers? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 11:27 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. The people will only put up with it for so long. |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 02:44 AM Response to Reply #72 |
77. after "so long" I won't be able to use public option |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 10:47 AM Response to Reply #77 |
81. I will contribute the maximum $2500 to your House or Senate campaign. |
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golfguru (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 06:09 PM Response to Reply #81 |
90. Just contribute the $2500 |
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Tx4obama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:27 AM Response to Original message |
45. Answer to your question is: President George Washington. See comment #1. n/t |
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Harmony Blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 09:30 AM Response to Original message |
51. Agreed |
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Honeycombe8 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 11:58 AM Response to Original message |
52. Some govt makes me buy car insurance and homeowner's ins. Who was the dummy who |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 12:35 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. That's a really tired and lame comparison and after 3 years of this discussion you should know that. |
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Mimosa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 01:55 AM Response to Reply #52 |
75. NO government 'makes you buy homeowner's insurance' |
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Philippine expat (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 04:23 PM Response to Reply #52 |
87. Its the state that requires auto insurance |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 12:03 PM Response to Original message |
53. I see nothing wrong with it.... |
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Marnie (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 03:04 PM Response to Original message |
58. Obama like things that are complex and convoluted |
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Arkana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 10:33 PM Response to Original message |
68. Single Payer/Medicare for all never would have made it out of Congress |
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harun (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 11:19 PM Response to Original message |
70. Well it hasn't been decided by the Supremes yet but I felt it was unconstitutional. |
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frazzled (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-11 11:24 PM Response to Original message |
71. Every mainstream economist, especially Paul Krugman |
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Mimosa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 01:56 AM Response to Reply #71 |
76. What if a person doesn't have money? n/t |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 06:41 AM Response to Reply #76 |
79. Tens of millions of people in this lousy economy will be rolled |
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frazzled (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 09:48 AM Response to Reply #76 |
80. If you have no or little money ... |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 10:49 AM Response to Reply #80 |
82. Substantial government subsidies for poor people, lol... not going to happen. |
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frazzled (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 11:01 AM Response to Reply #82 |
83. It did happen |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 11:12 AM Response to Reply #83 |
85. The law doesn't matter. State and federal cuts will kill the "law". |
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Mimosa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 05:44 PM Response to Reply #82 |
89. That's where my partner and I are. |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-11 11:06 AM Response to Original message |
84. true - single payer, which medicare for all is, wouldn't have this problem - because it would not |
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