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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:26 PM
Original message
How the November debt commission is triggering nerves in seniors, health care industry.
I notice that any of us who are concerned at all the compromises going on with Social Security and Medicare are told not to worry, that President Obama won't go there. That is not a true statement, he already has gone there.

Part of the debt deal is the commission that meets in November. Once again Medicare and Social Security will be put on the table for negotiations with right wing extremists.

I am using 3 sources so it won't be said I am making stuff up. Elderly lives are at stake, and it is necessary to question why.

From Elder Law resources:

How Will the Debt-Limit Deal Affect Seniors?

For Social Security, one thing the panel will undoubtedly consider changing is how the program's cost of living increase is calculated, which will result in lower benefits. Pushing back the eligibility age for future retirees could also be on the table.

Although President Obama will be pressing the joint committee to not just cut programs but to increase revenues by raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations, it is anybody's guess whether the panel's Republican members will agree to this.

"The future of the programs really hangs in the balance," said Joe Baker, president of the Medicare Rights Center, an advocacy group. "It could lead to deep cuts and irreversible changes to Medicare and Medicaid that shift costs to beneficiaries."

If the 12-member panel can't agree on a plan to pare at least $1.2 trillion from the budget -- or Congress votes down its proposal or President Obama vetoes it -- automatic spending cuts totaling that amount would kick in beginning in 2013. Medicaid, Social Security and veterans programs are among the programs that will be exempt from these mandatory cuts, but Medicare is not exempt. There would be a 2 percent cut to Medicare, although the savings would have to come from payments to providers like doctors and hospitals, not from beneficiaries. Such a reduction to providers would be on top of a 6 percent drop in provider payments already enacted to help finance health care reform. Doctors and hospitals would feel the impact initially, but Medicare beneficiaries would experience it soon enough as more providers refuse to treat Medicare patients, reduce services or go out of business.

There is, however, a strong incentive for the joint committee to avoid these automatic cuts and instead agree on a plan that Congress can pass and the President can sign: Along with the 2 percent automatic Medicare cut would be an automatic 8 percent reduction in defense spending, or nearly $500 billion. The thinking is that both Democrats and Republicans would view defense cuts of this magnitude as too damaging to their parties to contemplate.


Pitting seniors against the Pentagon? Not a fair fight. Leon Panetta has already said publicly that the social safety net should be cut before the defense budget.

That's pretty brazen, I would say.

Here is more about these benefits going on the table in November. From the Reuters blog of Mark Miller:

Social Security, Medicare dodge bullet, but cuts loom

Social Security and Medicare dodged a bullet in the debt ceiling battle, but beneficiaries still have plenty to fear from the next phase of the deficit reduction war.

..."But major benefit cuts seem likely to emerge from the second phase of this process. A 12-member Congressional committee must identify another $1.5 trillion in spending cuts, bringing the total deal to $2.4 trillion in cuts over 10 years. That group will have a November 23rd deadline to finish its work, which will then go to an up-or-down vote – no modifications allowed – by Dec. 23rd.

What’s more, if the committee cannot agree on at least $1.2 trillion in savings, or Congress rejects its findings, automatic spending cuts totaling that amount would kick in starting in 2013. Medicare would be subject to the automatic cuts, although Social Security and Medicaid would be exempt.


The author thinks the chained CPI is likely. Here are his words.

The most likely cutting tactic is the chained CPI measure of cost-of-living adjustments (COLA). This is the only way to get near-term savings from Social Security, since it reduces benefits for current retirees. By contrast, a higher retirement age would have to be phased in over many years. A chained CPI could be implemented as early as 2013. The chief actuary of the Social Security Administration estimates that the chained CPI will rise about 0.3 percentage points less per year than the inflation measure used now, the CPI-W. With compounding, that translates to a monthly benefit cut of 8.4 percent for a retiree at age 92 (calculated from age 62, the first year of eligibility), according to the National Academy of Social Insurance.

But the chained CPI wouldn’t affect only Social Security recipients – at least not if implemented as suggested by the Bowles-Simpson deficit reduction report, which suggested that it be applied to a range of federal benefit programs, and to the tax code.


We have had trouble recently getting through by phone to our medical clinic. Even the business office is difficult to reach. When I finally talked to someone, they said the clinic was dealing with Medicare benefit cuts....causing shortage of personnel.

That appears to be happening now. From Kaiser Health News:

Debt Deal Triggers Nerves In Health Industry; Providers Brace For Cuts

Reuters: Skilled Nursing Stocks In Sick Bay On Big Medicare Cuts
Shares of skilled nursing facilities plunged on Monday, after the U.S. government announced final reimbursement rate cuts that confirmed the market's worst fears, with little reprieve in sight. On Friday, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) cut 2012 payments for skilled nursing facilities by 11.1 percent, or $3.87 billion. … The U.S. government has been under pressure to cut Medicare costs — expected to nearly double in 10 years to $1.02 trillion — as it grapples with mounting federal debt. Analysts expect the industry to lobby the Congress to mitigate the loss but expect little to come out of that (Jain, 8/1).

Modern Healthcare: Deficit-Cutting Proposal Spurs Concern
Hospital advocates are concerned that the deficit-reduction proposal contained within the $2.1 trillion debt-ceiling deal that Congress will vote on imminently will target such providers for a large amount of the required savings, but they stopped short of calling for its defeat. ... The second stage of the debt deal, which directs a 12-member congressional committee to specify $1.5 trillion in cuts by Nov. 23, has caused the greatest provider concerns. Their worry stems from the plan for a "trigger" of $1.2 trillion in 10-year cuts if the committee and Congress fail to meet the initial $1.5 trillion savings goal. Those trigger cuts, according to the White House, would include up to a 2 percent cut in Medicare provider payments (Daly and Evans, 8/1).

NPR: Still To Come: The Fight Over Medicare Cuts And Tax Hikes
The rapidly rising cost of health care is expected to be a key driver of rising government spending over the next decade. (This isn't simply due to the aging of the population; health spending is growing much faster than the economy, even after adjusting for age.) CBO Medicare accounts for both the biggest share of federal health spending. It's also a very popular program, and one that's politically very difficult to cut (Goldstein, 8/1).


Many other sources at the link.

This is the first time I ever remember in my long lifeline that a Democratic administration has been instrumental in putting these senior safety nets on the table. I know that President Obama did say recently that Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit. However it is going back on the table in November, and many of us are very worried.

Social Security is in effect already being cut, even for those of us already retired. It is not being called a cut per se. But the payroll tax cuts of 2% already in place for the employee, and the cuts recommended by the president of 2% for employers....are going to damage benefits.

Payroll tax cuts will harm those already on Social Security.

Make no mistake: This is a bipartisan effort. It started back in December, when President Obama capitulated to the GOP on a budget deal by cutting the payroll tax, which funds Social Security. Advocates for the program pointed out then the shortcomings of this approach: It was targeted inefficiently and unfairly, skewing to the upper middle class and hurting lower-income families in comparison with the Making Work Pay tax credit it replaced.

Even more troubling, it blew a hole in the financing mechanism for Social Security by reducing payroll tax revenue by roughly $110 billion for the year. It was plain then, as it is now, that once you've cut a tax, it's ever harder to restore it.

.."This time the talk is of extending the one-time-only cut for workers, whose FICA deductions dropped to 4.2% from 6.2% of covered pay, and throwing in a similar break for employers, who also pay 6.2% of covered payroll. The talk comes against the backdrop of a signal from the big retirement lobby group AARP that it would accept certain changes in Social Security, including benefit cuts. (AARP backed off, but only a bit, when its policy shift was divulged publicly Friday.)


Now that there is talk of cutting benefits to retirees in the name of cutting the deficit, then it becomes about us....the seniors.

It is not about President Obama now. It is not about whether we have a right to criticize. It is about whether we as seniors get heard. It is in fact our obligation to speak out when we think the president is wrong.



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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Pentagon, corporations, oil companies, and the wealthy are sacred!
The rest of us not so much...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. May be right about that.
I don't think they hear us.
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 06:05 PM
Original message
Pentagon is scared because they are seriously
thinking of privatizing their retirement to 401K. My son n law is freaked out who is major in air force.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Utter
"Payroll tax cuts will harm those already on Social Security."

...nonsense.

Social Security benefits have not been cut so there is no harm to seniors. A payroll tax holiday is not a cut to Social Security benefits.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cutting payroll tax will change very nature of Soc. Sec.
Interesting comment at Huff Post...by making it need funds from general revenue it will go from being funded by the payroll tax to contributing to the deficit.

"In addition, the president's payroll tax cut contradicts his praise of Social Security's self-financed nature. At the town hall, the president said Social Security was not an "entitlement" specifically because it was paid for with workers' contributions. He made a good point, showing awareness that the political power of a social insurance program is dependent upon a perception that it is earned, and immune from accusations of increasing the deficit. But can we still say that Social Security is "paid for" and therefore "not an entitlement," now that the president cut the payroll tax by one-third?

And substituting the lost revenue with money from the general budget, while preventing the measure from depleting the trust fund, is no less harmful to the program. Where before Social Security did not contribute to the deficit, now it does, subjecting it to attack as a driver of our deficit."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-marans/presidents-town-hall-rema_b_927795.html

That might be all the right wing needs as ammunition.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly.
Even I, no math genius, understand.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. They have to create evidence to support their lies about SS ....never intended to run a surplus ...
only to be a "pay as you go" system --

the BS about the baby boombers also forced huge increases on poor and middle income

FICA payers -- while the elites got to enjoy the immense surplus it created for decades!!


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Matt Shapiro Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. Exactly right. Payroll tax cut is an assault on Social Security!
The Repugs have been looking for a cut in the payroll tax for years. In their program to eradicate Social Security, they've had a hard time convincing the public that SS is a "drain" on the economy, adding to the deficit. Everyone knows SS is self-financed with a gigantic surplus.

Now the R's wet dream is a reality. Now SS does add to the deficit, to the full extent of the payroll tax cut. The social security eradication engine is now full steam ahead, and won't stop until SS is no more.

Finally, while the existing employee payroll tax cut does act as a stimulus (at much too high a price), the proposed employer payroll tax cut will stimulate nothing. Employers will pocket the cut and say thank you very much (if they are that polite). They will create no jobs because of it. They will not spend it, except, perhaps to give some fat bonuses to their CEOs.

And this proposal comes from DEMOCRATS. From a DEMOCRATIC president. D I S G U S T I N G ! ! !
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Important info, MadFloridian. Thanks. n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Important article this month by James K. Galbraith.
"What Barack Obama got from the debt deal was exactly what his sponsors have wanted: a long-term lock-in of domestic spending cuts, and a path toward severe cuts in the core New Deal and Great Society insurance programs – Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And, of course, no tax increases at all.

To see the arc of political strategy, recall that from the beginning Obama handed economic policy to retainers recruited from the stables of Robert Rubin. From the beginning, he touted “fiscal responsibility” and played up the (economically non-existent) “problem” of the budget deficit. From the beginning his team sabotaged economic recovery with optimistic forecasts and inadequate programs – in the clear interest of protecting the banking system from reform.

As the presidency moved along, false claims of economic recovery supported a transition toward obsessive focus on debt and deficits, validated by a federal commission and constantly reinforced by a Washington propaganda chorus funded by Peter G. Peterson, for many decades a billionaire campaigner against Social Security and Medicare."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/08-4

I would remain silent about all this, but the attacks on education and the senior safety net make it impossible for me to keep my mouth shut about it.

I should not be expected to sit by and ignore their hits on the very things that are special to me. Education was my life, and I worked hard for what I have.

I resent any implication I am contributing to the deficit because I get SS and because I was a union member.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. This should have been a separate OP --- Love James Galbraith --
But why would you think that anyone would think you should reamin "silent" about all

this????

I don't get it --
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. More from Galbraith's article:
"Obama's neglected options

Even as “crisis” loomed, the President had powerful options. The Constitution of the United States flatly forbids default on debt or any other public obligation. The President could have simply asserted his duty and refused to negotiate.

Even more cleverly, he could – under a quirk of existing law – have turned drama to farce by minting a large platinum coin – say for a trillion dollars – and using that to buy back public debt held by the Federal Reserve, so that the debt ceiling would never have been breached. (There would have been an uproar but no other economic effect.)

These options were rejected or not considered at all. From which, one has to conclude that the President really did want a big budget-cutting deal. He just wanted – like any politician – the appearance of being bullied into it.

So now the die is cast. Practically nothing to address any real economic problem can now get done. Actual austerity will come slowly – the cuts are not abrupt and some may yet be blocked – but unless there is a radical change of events or mood it will come. Meanwhile as the economy stalls and despair deepens, the deficits and debt will continue to climb."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/08-4
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. As Galbraith makes clear ... Obama ended up where he wanted to be all along ---
but everyone should know there were many other ways to go --

including taxing the rich -- it cost us an extra half of a percentage point to

cover what Obama gave away in tax cuts for the rich $120 BILLION -- !!!

Of course that had nothing to do with the DEBT ... !!! :evilgrin:


What absolute BS --

and keep wondering how long we are all going to put up with this --

wait until things get even worse?


Aside from Obama, do citizens not realize that corporate/fascists aren't going

to stop with destroying Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid?

These are the same corporate/fascists who gave us Nazis, Hitler, WWII --

and that one got pretty far around the globe!!

These are people who are after slave labor --

And, trust everyone has noticed by now re Global Warming that capitaism is suicidal

in its exploittion of nature, animal life, natural resources -- and even other human

beings --- ????







:nuke:

Even as “crisis” loomed, the President had powerful options. The Constitution of the United States flatly forbids default on debt or any other public obligation. The President could have simply asserted his duty and refused to negotiate.


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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Marvelous post.
There seems to be a lot of passivity already concerning the Super Congress. It is pretty clear what they intend to do.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. As a senior, I'm willing to see the discussion. The economy as it stands now is good for no one.

If this economy continues, Social Security (and everything else) will be worth squat whether or not a few tweaks are made. Now, I will be ticked if they don't increase taxes on upper income, but I think their taxes will increase.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. The "economy" we are suffering has been created not by failure but by design ... a financial coup!!
See Catherine Austin Fitts -- YouTube --

And again -- Social Security has nothing whatsoever to do with the debt --

If you're really concerned about the economy, push Obama to end the wars !!

80% of Americans want an end to the wars -- !!


If you're concerned about the econmy, push Obama to MEDICARE FOR ALL which would

save government money and provide 2.3 million new jobs!!


If you're concerned about the economy, push for stimulus and new jobs!!

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is a really well-crafted post. My condolences on the troll infestation... I mean
Edited on Wed Aug-17-11 05:16 PM by leveymg
unrecs. It's hard to believe this solid work ended up with so few net recs. Shows that you hit an exposed nerve.

Makes too much good sense on too important a subject to survive anywhere near the WH apologists and Uberpartisans. They've really become a problem as they're forced into a smaller and smaller corner on the RW of the Democratic side, I feel.

Anyway, nice work. :hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. It's a vital topic.
I appreciate the kind words. Today when the telefund inc called for the DNC, and he got an earful....he said he was hearing it every day. Mostly about the safety nets. People are scared, he said.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I could be wrong of course but the other reason for the unrecs could be that
Edited on Wed Aug-17-11 08:23 PM by cstanleytech
its not exactly new in that the committee has been talked about alot on the DU already and the ones that really need to hear the concerns are the ones on the committee and I doubt they frequent the DU but anyway I'll toss the thread a rec.

edit:Bah, I must have missed the 24 hour window, sorry :(
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Actually you might be surprised...
at who frequents DU, or has their staff do so. They do indeed know what is going on, they just choose to ignore it.

Appreciate the attempt to rec, but I don't expect them anymore. And I appreciate the ones I get. :-)
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Great post - just found it on the home page
too late to rec it,
surprised it only has two net recs.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. More words of FDR in 1934.
"To say we can't provide economic stimulus today because it won't solve the deficit problem down the road is to strangle ourselves with our own hands. On this subject, as on so many others, one looks to President Franklin Roosevelt to define the responsibility government has to keep its citizens secure through tough times.

Asked about the platform of the American Liberty League, a pressure group of rich conservative Democrats such as the Du Pont family that declared itself the protector of property rights and free enterprise, Roosevelt remarked that their principles seemed to be that "you shall love God and then forget your neighbor."

Government, he countered, involved itself with "people who want to keep themselves free from starvation, keep a roof over their heads, lead decent lives, have proper educational standards" ... and who needed protection from those determined to "enrich and advance themselves at the expense of their fellow citizens."

That was the word from the White House in 1934. And today?"

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/19/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110619/2
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. That is another treasure. This whole thread is a gold mine, thanks to you.
Hat's off to you.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Thank you -- !! Entire farce of the budget deal run by Obama and GOP needs to be understood ...
:puke:
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. "To say we can't provide economic stimulus today because it won't solve the deficit problem down the
"To say we can't provide economic stimulus today because it won't solve the deficit problem down the road is to strangle ourselves with our own hands"

It's like deja-vous all over again.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for the excellent post.
The debt deal has pretty much made cuts in SS and Medicare of some sort inevitable. No one wants the trigger to be pulled. The idea that the cuts that will be meade to avoid that won't touch entitlements is a fantasy.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Mad, the only flack you will get will be from the usual ones who
don't read the post before commenting....:fistbump:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. The odd thing is that young people don't seem to realize that if Social
Security and Medicare are cut, older people will rely on their children to help them out in their final years. This could be very tough for a lot of young people whose parents will be retiring right when the young families need to put kids through college.

What do you do? Make sure mom gets her cancer treatment or send Jr. to college?

At this time, kids don't have to worry about that. But if Medicare and Social Security are cut, the pressure will be on the children of the parents whose needs are not met.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Exactly right. They are not used to having to provide what Medicare and SS provide.
I think the shock would be great.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Parents were at one time suing their children for support... as I understand it !!
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
28. How much time did you spend on this excellent post?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
30. Chained CPI "reduces benefits for current retirees"
No COLA for two years, and if they go with the chained CPI it will reduce benefits. And the lessened ability to fund because of the payroll tax cuts that appear to be ongoing turn it into just another program to be funded by the general revenue fund and then cut.

From Mark Miller at Reuters:

"The enormous pressure to identify $2.4 trillion in cuts boosts the odds that Social Security benefit cuts will be proposed. Re-stating what I’ve said so many times: this would be unfair and unwise. Social Security doesn’t contribute to the deficit, and it will be a critical source of support for recession-ravaged seniors in the decades ahead.

The most likely cutting tactic is the chained CPI measure of cost-of-living adjustments (COLA). This is the only way to get near-term savings from Social Security, since it reduces benefits for current retirees. By contrast, a higher retirement age would have to be phased in over many years."

http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-money/2011/08/02/social-security-medicare-dodge-bullet-but-cuts-loom/
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
31. This needs kicking.
:kick:
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. Another excellent post, madflo. Thank you for all you do to educate us.
Too late to rec, but here's the KICK.

To illustrate the gap between perception and reality here's a story from my encounter with some local folks. Very nice folks who are staunch right-wingers, I might add. The matriarch, in her 90's is cared for by her daughter, who rails against the government and Obama (for all the WRONG reasons--muslim, socialist, etc.).

So, daughter who wants to cut gummint is explaining to me what an ordeal it was getting the MOTORIZED WHEEL CHAIR for her mom. It came from SOCIAL SERVICES, of course. A government safety net program that is benefiting the matriarch and her family. Just fucking UNbelievable. The ignorance is thick.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. That's why it is so harmful to have our party put these up for negotiation.
Thus we have no way to fight back. It's like they took the best weapon away from us, and we can not defend them.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I agree 100%. nt
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