The Obama Wars: Why Do We Tear Each Other Apart Over Whether the President Is a Failure or Success?

The debate over Obama's role in the mess we're in is distracting progressives from the real fight.
August 16, 2011
 
What, if anything, is the matter with Obama? This is a question that sharply divides progressives today, the central front on what has become known as the “Obama Wars.”

The Obama Wars can be vicious – they're often reminiscent of the 2008 primary fight between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. In online communities, the conflict pits “Obamabots,” whose mindless fealty to Our Dear Leader renders them incapable of independent thought, and “emo-progs,” members of the “professional left” whose lust for attacking the administration and refusal to give it credit for its accomplishments will only discourage Democratic voters and ultimately usher in a Bachmann presidency and a Supreme Court packed with far-right activist judges.

Such is the reality when, two years after a campaign promising hope and change swept our nation's first black president into office, our political system is still completely screwed up and the country remains mired in a long depression.

Sadly, the debate over Obama's role in this mess is marked by numerous straw-men and red herrings, because much of it is a battle of counterfactuals. For example, I personally believe that if Democrats began legislative fights from an unabashedly progressive proposal, rather than from what's perceived to be the center, we would end up with better outcomes. But that's an untested belief – at least in my time -- and I'm humble enough to acknowledge that I can't say with any certainty that offering proposals from further to the left wouldn't have backfired.

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i find it to be a waste of energy so don't engage as a rule.

i wouldn't call myself any names but i'm voting for the incumbent democrat even though he has disappointed me mightily. the alternative is bone chillingly scary.

i'm in NC. if i was still back in CA i could go with my conscience but as it is i MUST go with the democrat.

because of the rightward swing of the entire party. I don't know any one in my social economic sphere who thinks Obama is doing a good job, no matter where on the political spectrum they may fall.

zalinda

Last time I checked the president had 83% approval from liberal democrats.

No sense in having Obama change what he's doing since he is doing so well.

zalinda

There is no evidence that some here speak for "the base" as they suggest.

Seriously?

he's not a King.

What demographics does Obama consider his base? African Americans are a start. In 2008 it was under 30, unions, public employees, liberals. What is it now and/or who is he targeting aside from the unicorns (mythical independents)?

for the President, sorry. All I can do is give you my opinion, which I've done above.

Is that where these Dems you know are going?

Unless the dems give them someone to vote for, many will just vote local, and not for President. They are really tired of being lied to. Obama was their hope, and they are feeling really betrayed right now. Maybe they'll vote Green, I don't know. Votes are private, so unlike some, I won't presume that they will vote repub, just to try to make them feel bad.

zalinda

Let me explain it this way ...

There are 2 totally opposite descriptions of Obama.

The right wing version is that he is an evil commie socialist, who was born in Kenya, is a muslim terrorist, and he hates America.

The left wing version is that Obama is an evil corpratist, he hates the poor, the gay, and those with no medical care, and he hates America.

Both messages share one thing .... each says that Obama is EVIL!!! He's a bad guy.

The folks who push these two totally opposite rationales for WHY he is evil don't care WHICH rationale one chooses to conclude Obama is evil, just so long as THAT is the conclusion.

If the dems lose the WH in 2012, it will be cause these two opposite messages will have (a) energized the GOP base, and (b) demoralized the Dem base. Those events will sway turn out, and we get a President Perry.

So sure ... don't scare your family about that ... let them live through it. Great plan.

Both messages share one thing .... each says that Obama is EVIL!!! He's a bad guy.

There are few people on the left who are calling him EVIL, but if we criticize him, we are evil. The RW is against any one who is labeled not one of them, and Obama is labeled a Democrat. I have no proof he is a dem, just his word for it. I've seen no proof that he even listens to a lefty, much less has one in the White House. Hell, he's even being nicer to Perry than he was to Hillary.

Please show me where any lefty has said that Obama is evil. We have called him a liar, incompetent, poor negotiator, a repub in dems clothing, flip-flopper, and so on. It has always been about his actions, never about him.

If he loses the White House in 2012, it will be his own fault, not any one else. Remember, he's interviewing for the job, we are the employers. So far, he has done a piss poor job at being President. He would have already been fired if he had performed this badly in the private sector. And no amount of guilt tripping will help him now.

The really funny (not ha, ha) thing about this, is that we who are poor, will be poor under a repub or a dem, neither care about us. So for us, down at the bottom, it doesn't really matter who is in the White House, Obama has proven that.

zalinda

evil.

I like when folks on the left call him a Republican ... or a MOLE ... or when they claim that he doesn't care about the poor.

I like LIAR. That's a respectful term. You hate him, don't deny your feelings, they are obvious.

As an example, the notion that Obama is nicer to Perry than to Hillary is one of the dumbest attacks on Obama I have ever heard ... it ranks up there with the right wing screaming that he put mustard on a hamburger. But that's one of your issues? Really, that kind of tripe??

Get serious.

As for your job interview approach ... let me know which of the other candidates for the position, you plan to hire when you fire Obama ... some one is going to get the job ... if not him, who exactly?

Oh wait ... I know ... there's going to be a primary. That must be it.

He has not ended the war, but has started bombing other countries.

He is a liar. He lied to the people of Illinois when he said he wouldn't run in his first term. I expect politicians to make promises they know they can't keep. But running for President, that is one promise he could keep. That lie is totally on him. It showed his character, and why people have given him a pass on it, I'll never know.

As for hate or evil, Obama is not Dick Cheney, and absolutely no one has claimed that. We all know Cheney is evil. As for hating him, I don't. I just wish he would go away and let someone who has the best interest of the country to take his place. I don't believe for one minute that he cares about any one except himself and his family. His actions have proven that.

I wish there was a primary, maybe we'd get someone who didn't 'negotiate' us into far right policies. It seems that only the Black Caucus and the Progressive Caucus has any spine at all. If his fellow dem politicians are getting frustrated with him, try being the poor person who has to live with his 'skills'.

I never thought he would do much, so really, I'm not surprised at how he is governing. What gets to me was all the people who really believed in him. It hurts to see these hard working people, who had hoped, against hope that he would make things better in their lives. You could see it in their eyes, hear it in their voice and a lightness had taken over their body. Now, the light has gone out of their eyes, they no longer talk of hope, and if possible, they look like they've had even more weight added to their already heavy burden. This is what kills me about Obama. He had given these people hope, and then without even a moments hesitation, he took it all away. Most days I can get through without crying, but some days it just hurts too much.

I now know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that those who are promoting Obama really don't care about this country. They only care if their team wins or not. This is a game to them, and those who are suffering don't matter, out of sight, out of mind. They have a job which pays well, or at the very least a money source that allows them to live well. Why on earth should they care about someone who is not living well, who goes to work every day in pain, to batter their body some more because their family depends on them to eat. There are senior citizens living on the streets because they could no longer afford their home, but it only matters if the correct team wins.

There are more poor than rich, but the poor are invisible, they have no one to speak for them. They thought Obama cared. And they hoped. They are hoping no more, their burden has become to much. Too much to bother with voting for someone who pulled their hope away, and I can't say I blame them. And, shame on anyone who blames them them if Obama doesn't get elected. They pulled it together in 2008, and their plight is worse than it was before. So put the blame where it really belongs, Obama. He picked his advisers. He decides who to listen to. He is the one who steers the ship of state. He is the one who made promises he never intended to keep. His 'grand vision' was never intended for the poor, and they now know it. Obama has shown that he's just not into them, so if they don't show up to vote, I understand. Only those who just want their team to win, won't understand.

zalinda

How do I put this politely ... F**k y**. That's about as polite as I can be, after reading your sentence quoted above.

Your statement is as ridiculous as those of the Tea Party whack jobs who claim Obama is going to redistribute all the country's wealth to the poor, or that he hates America. We'll actually, that's basically what you said ... he hates America.

So I guess I should thank you for proving my larger point.

You clearly think that Obama, and those who support him, are evil.

That is the point of your quoted statement above. And at least now you can own it proudly.

"I like when folks on the left call him a Republican"
He supports Republican (not Tea Party, REPUBLICAN) policies over mainstream Democratic ones, let alone progressive Democratic ones. Why then ISN'T he a Republican?

"I like LIAR. That's a respectful term."
Respect is a bogus issue. It's an ACCURATE term, and when he quits DOING it, we'll quit SAYING it. Deal?

"the notion that Obama is nicer to Perry than to Hillary is one of the dumbest attacks on Obama I have ever heard"
Too bad it's backed up by data in literally hundreds of threads here on DU. So it's not the factual content, nor the effect his treatment is having on Perry's chances as candidate, what exactly is it that's "dumb" about it?

And what's with the gloating tone about the fact that we have to eat shit instead of having a candidate we respect and share values with? I would expect sorrow about this from an honest Democrat. We're not talking DLC values here, are we?

In case you didn't figure this out, DU is a message board. And I do get a kick out of folks here claiming Obama is really a secret Republican. Its almost as funny as calling him a secret Muslim. I find it fascinating how easy it is to ignore his accomplishments, and cling to his compromises. Or was there a GOP candidate willing to end DADT? But ignore that ... ooops, too late.

And calling Obama a liar on DU has become silly. I see post after post claiming he said things he never said. Or cherry picking small parts of something he said. Its all bullshit.

And the reason that the "nicer to Perry than Hillary" whine is stupid is that its seems to ignore that he made Hillary, not Parry Secretary of State. But apparently, he hates her. Again ... its a nonsense argument, probably made by those who are still fighting the 2008 primary war.

And then ... oh no ... the DLC values meme ... look ... if there is some better candidate PRODUCE THEM. That's all I ask. I'm a pragmatic Dem, which means I want us to grab as much ground as we can, when we can, I want us to hold on to as much as possible, and I want to not allow the GOP to install another Reagan or Bush. And what I'm not going to do is sit around lamenting how terrible Obama is. Honestly, the current GOP is far to crazy to spend time on that.

Your use of "DLC values" was clearly an attempt to indicate that I don;t hold the correct values. The tea party and the GOP tells me the same thing, just for different reasons. They'd call me a baby killer and a socialist.

In reality, the main difference I see is this. When Obama was elected, I held no illusions that Obama could, in 1 term, undo roughly 30+ years of damage that starts with Reagan and ends with Bush #2. It can't be done. In fact, I don't Obama could do it in two terms, nor could Hillary, or anyone else. Its going to take much, much longer.

And, one of the reasons its going to take longer and longer, is because we'd rather in fight, and feed the "Obama Bad" narrative. Losing the House shows that. and if we lose the WH in 2012, the time to fix the mess will get even longer, and the hole much deeper.

Personally, I want to see a Dem in the white house for the next 12 years. With majorities in both houses. But the more we bicker, the more we prevent that.

So ... while you question my values ... I don't question yours ... what I do question is your plan.

Here's another way I think about it. I live in NC. Liddy Dole was our Senator. Democrats were finally able to replace Dole with Kay Hagen. Kay is part of the "3rd Way", terrifying I know. But, should we in NC go back to Liddy Dole? Or help Kay hold that seat? Sure, abstractly we could say ... "hey, let's PRIMARY Kay". But that would be dumb. She's not the most progressive senator, but she's way better than Dole. And we still have Republican Richard Burr. So rather than attack Kay, its smarter to go after Burr.

Spending all this time demanding a primary for Obama is a waste of time. There are other GOP candidates who we should be taking on, in the House, in the Senate. And we need to hold the Presidency.

Seems many of them clamor more for any third-party name thrown out there, and have always done so...I don't consider anyone that votes for Nader a Democrat, they are what they are, fickle allies that are usually single-issue voters that bail on a politician if their pet issue isn't instantly made the most important one on the agenda.

rather than lobbying people in my party to make the world a better place or some other hippie bullshit.

Happy?

If all you do is attack Obama, you give the GOP a pass, and they will be thankful ... and demonstrate that thanks by killing social security for sure.

So go ahead, complain about Obama when you need to ... but if that is all you do ... then you are helping to sure things get much, much, worse.

nt

how fucking stupid. the left is NOT getting their reps backs if they continue to ignore the dominant role of right wing talk radio in steering the national discussion.

The real disagreement is about what constitutes "success."

It's not about Obama, imo, it's about issues.

I don't consider the party, or the current administration, a "success" unless they are fighting to move the nation left of center. I can handle losses, if we're fighting hard, consistently, and persistently.

I don't think that's what Obama considers "success."

I think that there has always been a faction in the party that cares more about personalities and the perception of the party as a sports team than about issues. The only "wins" they are concerned with are those connected to their star players.

Issues will trump personality and party for me EVERY TIME. If someone wants to fight with me about team or players when the team management is shitty and the stars are tarnished, so be it. I'm not the one who's going to be torn apart; they are tearing themselves apart.

If team management wants my support, they can clean up their act. They can draft some better stars. Stars who, win or lose, won't throw the game.

It's easier taking potshots at Obama than taking on the GOP menace.

“the reality is that Obama is working within a very constrained political environment... and within that context look at what he's done. This is a guy that passed the largest stimulus in American history, he passed universal health-care which has been a Democatic aspiration since Harry Truman... And I'm a little hard-pressed to see what the great liberal betrayal has been.”

I didn't know that Zakaria had said that. I share his confusion.

Obama's critics, by and large, haven't acknowledged what history likely will: Obama, faced with a devastated economy and an obstinate opposition, has arguably achieved more than one could reasonably expect given the political context. Obama's progressive critics often seem to overestimate the power of the presidency, and underemphasize the road-block that Congress has represented, even when the Democrats had large majorities in both chambers. Around 300 pieces of legislation passed the House before the GOP took it over, only to die at the hands of the Senate. If, say, 100 of those bills – many of them quite progressive – had passed the Senate over its majority of Republicans and blue dog Democrats, Obama's already impressive list of accomplishments would be that much heftier.

Agreed. Happy to rec