Is it worth actually losing SS, Medicare, the Supreme Court, Healthcare Reform,

Financial Regulation,
Respect for our Nation abroad,
etc.,
as well as any hope for any legislation that actually benefits the majority of Americans

just to teach Obama the lesson that he should have been more liberal?!?!?!?!


Because if you have any doubts that all of this and more would happen under a Teapuke President,
you're in for a shittastic surprise.

We're fucked.

But those who can't stand him mysteriously leave this obvious outcome out of their calculations for primaries, 3rd parties, and non-stop anti-Obama vitriol.

Some have even gone so far as to claim a Repuke President would be better.
It's sickening to see Democrats act this way.

Boehner didn't hold President Obama in a headlock until Our Democratic President volunteered that cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid *will* be on the table.

"The Rock(head)" Perry didn't body slam Our Democratic President before he volunteered those cuts either.

The Tea Partiers didn't "raise the roof" at the recent Hip Hop BBQ to force Our Democratic President to offer those cuts at all.

President Barack Obama is doing the GOP's job for them. And doing it well. Either the Democratic Party stands for something -- or it stands FOR NOTHING. You choose.

Lesser of two evils my arse.

That just doesn't make sense. YOU'LL be affected, too.

Ridiculous terrorism.

Of course, Democrats in Congress and the Senate were Convinced that he put Social Security on the table along with medicare.

So.

If you vote for Obama he will abolish Social Security and Medicare.

Instead of making terroristic threats in hope of attracting votes, try promoting policies that help the poor, the middle class, the elderly, veterans.

And with no Supreme Court to right the wrongs,
the damage will last for generations.

But at least you get what you want, right?
Obama gets taken down a notch.


And I must ask, has Obama cut SS yet?

People all over the liberal blogosphere have been claiming this was a done deal since January.
But it wasn't and isn't. Just another "Obama is about to cut SS" freakout.

Obama will abolish SS/Med. I AM sure the Republicans would. And same goes for the policies to help all in need - with Obama we've got a chance, with the Republicans, we have none.

If Republicans take over, we may lose those programs. The big change for me was when I realized that with Democrats in charge we can lose those programs.

If the leadership of the Democratic party will not without reservation defend some of the best things we have ever done as a party and as a nation, they can not be trusted. I will not support a party avidly pursuing the votes of centrists, independents, and center right Republicans because I have no where else to go. I will find somewhere else to go and use my energy to build it into a place that will serve the interests of liberals.

If the Democratic Party won't protect, preserve and defend its greatest legacies, then we're doomed anyway.

My take is that the US is already Rome somewhere between 190 and 476 AD, inching ever closer to that 476 Fall. Get ready for the modern Visigoths!

snarky, why are you still here if you feel this way?

I agree that those sacrosanct programs being on the table was shocking, but not ALL Dems supported that!

I'm just not sure what other alternative we have that can actually get ANYTHING accomplished. At least at this point, we are achieving some goals, and if we keep working to put more like-minded Dems in office...:shrug:

Party, what do you gain from being here? Again, a sincere question. I think if I were to frequent a message board where I had fundamental differences with a great number of the posters, I wouldn't enjoy it very much. Presenting one's point over and over doesn't achieve anything (on either side of the question). Although, I do know there are many here of like mind, so maybe it IS a safe haven in that respect.

This is the kind of extreme my way or the highway view that we get from Teabaggers.

Sad to see it coming from this side.

the unemployed instead of "Oh my God Republicans will take away Social security."

As citizens, our votes should be earned not scared out of us.

This is the hole in your logic.

What is your plausible better alternative if you reject Obama?

I know I won't vote for Republican. I may not vote for Obama because he hasn't earned my vote. I will see who else is running and what the election looks like.

But at this time, he hasn't earned my vote and doesn't deserve it. In theory, public servatns are supposed to earn the votes and the trust of the people.

This is the kind of thinking that gives Karl Rove wet dreams.

We have always had greater numbers than the GOP.
They are just extremely adept at fighting as a team.
Dividing us and conquering.

I'll take your word for it.

So far, the person who has had the most affect on my vote is President Obama and his Conservative policies. Now why would he want to divide us, other than the fact that the Democrats believe that liberals have no pace else to go, so they can do whatever they want to please centrists and the center right.

Obama is not even close to being a Conservative.

But he may not be the Socialist you'd prefer.

That is your problem.

There is a vast chunk of the political spectrum between Conservative and socialist. If you don't realize that then you are, in some small ways, a Conservative. I am a Social and fiscal liberal, to the left of Conservatives and Centrists a to the right of Socialists. Conservatives have, for more than a century worked hard to turn socialist into a dirty word, so that many social liberals today have taken up that big lie.

You are right, Obama is no socialist. Hell, Bernie Sanders is not a socialist, he is a Social Democrat, which again is not the same thing as a socialist. Thinking in Absolutes, as you do in your post, forces you to think the system is simple black and white, but it isn't.

Obama is a fiscal Conservative, because his polices toward protecting the banks, placing Conservatives as his advisers, and in his general approach to the economy is conservative. The Health Care Bill, his signature achievement, was a Republican idea from the early 90's, later passed by Mit Romney, and the Mandate was actually first conceived by the Heritage Foundation. You can find all this information at post 17 here (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=750369&mesg_id=750421). The individual mandate is Conservative, because it is a free market solution to health-care. The nature of the Healthcare bill that only uses free market solutions is Conservative. Even the public option, which was not passed, was designed to provide a cheap minimal form of insurance to people and force the free market to provide cheaper value added products to those who don't want the absolutely no frills minimal insurance provided by the government and bring prices down through market competition. Even Medicare for all, which was never on the table in the negotiations, is free market because Medicare recipients still go through private hospitals, HMO's, and other private institutions to get health care. It is more of a liberal idea, because it is a single payer system managed by the government and not a maze of private companies, and Medicare is non-profit. The military hospitals and the VA are the closest thing the U.S. has to a socialst organization, and I find that a great irony.

His offer to cut the deficit in the middle of the worst recession since the Great Depression is similar to the same austerity plan that Hover signed and almost identical to the plan Conservatives passed when they tried, with some success, to stop FDR's legislation to end the Depression. His policies are conservative therefor, he is conservative. I judge his place on the spectrum by what he does not by what he says and not by the Party he belongs to.

Go ahead and continue your efforts to bring Obama down.
I'll do the exact opposite.
Let's see which one of us has a greater effect on History.

by his choices.

This isn't about loyalty to an individual. It isn't about Obama. It is about the way our nation should be administered by the officials we elect.

when they do not meet the intereests of the majority of Americans. This isn't about Obama or loyalty to a single man. My loyalty is to the system and my duty is to act and vote in what I see as the interests of the people who rely on that system.

If we begin by askng what is best for a person (Obama) or a party (Democratic Party of the United States) then we forget to ask what is best for we the people.

You've never had to actually do this. That may explain your blindness to the actual process.

Seems you would prefer a benevolent dictator, someone whose word is law, to an actual Democracy warts and all.

Gotta make that Grand One Billion Dollar Goal

Wise up soon about how things really work or you'll be bitter for the rest of your life.

It is better to pass no legislation than to pass harmful GOP legislation.

Agree completely :hi:

edited so it was clear that I agree with Ozymanithrax!!!!

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You want assassinations, torture, spying, trade deals and cuts to the social safety net. We don't.

At this point, I will no longer contribute money to (a) the Democratic Party; and (b) President Obama. I am looking for any state and local "Green" candidates that I can support with money. It is time Social liberals had someplace to go besides a party that does not serve our interests or the interests of our families, communities, and the nations as we see it.

If Ray Lutz runs for Congress again in my distinct, I will support him with time, money, and effort. He impressed me in 2010. Elizabeth Warren impresses me, and if she runs, I will support her with what little money I can.

:hi:

Rec, but to no avail. :eyes:

seems like it lends itself to abuse by those who would like to squash all support for our President.

un-recs, though.

You can play this little game in the abstract all you want.

Do you really want to see what it looks like in reality?

Are you so stubborn you would inflict such grief on the American people just so you could say you held to your 'principles'?

I suppose Kagen must be a centrist as well since she was nominated by Obama, but I don't know that for sure. We need to counter the rightwing extremists on the SCOTUS, and centrists are not going to get it done.

You are the one who is playing a game. I asked a simple question but I didn't get an answer from you, only questions. Since you have taken such a bold position I was hoping you would have the courage to defend it if you can.

Come his second term, I expect him to move further right in every respect, including any appointments he may get to make to the USSC, and any cabinet replacements which may be necessary. The donors of his Billion Dollar Campaign Fund will be awaiting their promised pay backs. And Obama will be lining up his highly paid, post-presidency, corporate board appointments, book deals, etc. I don't expect he wants to be on the boards of the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, Habitat for Humanity, etc.

and by the New York Times.


Do you have evidence from credible sources to counter my assertion that Sotomayor is a centrist? If not, then it is you who is most deserving of your own harsh assessment.

It's insane.

I can only assume that they just don't care who it hurts.

They would rather be able to say, "I told you so".

i think for a lot of people it's about not being able to support someone who doesn't seem to share, support, represent,and fight for their values.

If you can't get someone who doesn't do exactly what you wanted,
you'll just take your ball and go home.

Screw the good ol' USA. Let the GOP have it, right?

fear based politics is a large part of why bush won a second term. yeah he was a disaster and had flubbed everything he had touched, but if kerry had been elected he would have surrendered to bin laden the day he was sworn in.
your fear based "eat yer shit sandwich or the other side will take yer bread and all you'll have is a plate of shit" comparison is not much different. one can't survive on a diet of shit.

the president made his choices, the good ones and the bad ones, knowing he'd have to face re-election. if people aren't supporting him, he made the wrong choices.

There is a giant difference between Obama and anyone on the other side.

If you deny this, you are either a complete moron or a liar.
Which is it?

You want to play a game of Russian Roulette with the future of this country.
I say fuck that notion.

just not enough of one for a lot of people.
when the president was sworn in he had an amazing amount of support. 3 years later and it's blowing away. that's the presidents failings, not the people who voted for him.

i don't really buy into the argument that says people should support somebody whose actions they largely disagree with because if they don't something bad might happen.

i say fuck that notion.

Extending Health Insurance to those who were disallowed for pre-existing conditions?

Regulating Wall Street?

Healthcare for Kids?

Nuclear Disarmament Treaties?

DADT Repeal?

?????


None of this would have happened under a Repig Admin.

But I guess you'd rather say fuck all those helped by these policies, let's let the GOP have the reins again.

Go ahead and say this. You represent so few people as to make it completely meaningless.

i will say there seems to be more and more people who see it the same way i do though.
the president is having a tough sell. i just saw where only 29% think he's doing a good job with the economy.

unemployment is still really high. cuts to ss are now on the table and we're in a couple of wars and whatever you want to call the dust up in libya.

you seem to be ticked that people are opposed to these things and that makes me think that you may be confusing the man obama with the president obama.
i'm looking at his performance as president not the man personally.

i'm sure he's a great guy. as a president though there seem to be a lot of dissatisfied voters.

Will you continue these efforts at undercutting him?

Or will you unite with the rest of us Democrats and do what's right?

i vote for whoever best reflects my values....if there's no clear difference, then i protest vote and write in al gore.

Reminds me of the insane teabagger and not much more. They insist that they have principles too,
and if they have to take everyone down to make their point, that's exactly what they will do.
Y'all might as well join forces.

Lacking common sense is not a principle to fight or die for.....especially if it means taking all of those principles that folks say they "care so much" till they are willing to turn it all over the those who will smash each and everyone of those principles to pieces forevermore.

The irony is obviously lost on those "principled" folks. Guess they are too busy being resolute dying on the hill they have climbed.

Actual progress sacrificed at the altar of Idealism.

and you'll get arthritis.

do those things you list themselves. Making things about someone else, a president in this case, puts us at THEIR beck and call. Live it. Do it. Work on getting your own representation in local gov't and Congress that does fit you better, if you wish. But he's NOT supposed to be you for you. You are supposed to do that for yourself and thus win a place at the table and if you can do that, Obama will HAVE to deal with your values there, not just because you say so, but because you're actually a functional real social force.

when he ran as a democrat he was saying we shared the same values. in fact when he gave speeches during the primaries and the general election his speeches led me to believe he shared those values.
it was only after he was sworn in that his values seemed to be a bit more flexible than mine.

Are you happy?

:sarcasm:

What have you achieved?

Sadly, I have been proven wrong time and again.

Some are willing to sacrifice everything because they didn't get exactly what they want.
That is insanity.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"

my position doesn't require defending.
you said you always thought democrats were rational like you so i posted the rogers quote.

i don't think supporting politicians who don't seem to support your values is rational.

That is complete bullshit if you know anything about the Democratic Party or it's platform.

This kind of over the top hyperbole is what totally blows your attempt to make a point.

Will Rogers would have never claimed a Repuke President might be what the country needs. He was no clown.

Face it. It's not because he doesn't share your values.
It's because he didn't do exactly what you wanted him to do.
Sorry, but he has another 300 million americans to think about. He can't spend all his time pleasing you.

you're funny.
i'm not trying to make a point.
i support the new deal.

like i said before, you seem to be arguing with yourself.
i'm not making a point and my position doesn't need defending.
if the president is losing support that's his failing and not the failings of voters who are dissatisfied and won't vote more of the same.

you can gnash your teeth all you want but more and more people are taking the view that they won't support a president who seems at odds with their values. my guess is that's why the presidents approval rating just hit a low point.

You're the one who thinks you know better.

You don't try and defend your position because it is indefensible.

I notice you didn't even address your claim that Obama shares none of your values.
If you're a real Democrat, you know that is nothing but a lie.

You and all the other pissy little babies won't bring Obama down.
Count on it.

i never said he didn't share "any" of my values. it was you that said that on my behalf, so you could continue arguing with yourself.
he doesn't share enough of them, and apparently i'm not the only one. there's a thread on the greatest page about being proud to be a firebagger. go read it. lol

to the wants of people who didn't vote him in, as though he HAS to enact some Republican measures, just to be "fair" or something. Then they lecture us about not knowing about our political system, lol.

we're not even through his first term, and he's already willing to put our "sacred cows" on the table?

Please.

You don't apply to be the main player, get in the game, and then announce you are the referee. If Obama wants to be a "compromiser", let him go BE a judge.

I guess that works if you don't give a damn about the truth.
Some of us do.

It's more like a couple of creeps break into your home, rape your wife, kill your pets, and then drag your kid into the living room. One offers to blow the child's brains out, the other to snap the child's neck, and they're asking you to decide.

Such flowery language, so little depth or meaning.

I am 73 years old. Never voted for the lesser of two evils. Not about to start now.

Don't let me spoil that attitude by pointing out the candidates that are helped when Democrats don't vote.

I know you don't even want to think about that.

you're a bit snarky to Emilyg who is a 1000+ poster and donor!

If I find the person with the most posts, are they the smartest?

Thanks for the laugh.

SMART!

If I had 20000 would you believe everything I said without question?

you can't - you won't be true to anyone or anything else.

In the end though, you have to actually consider the true repercussions of your actions.
Maybe you'll be able to do that one day. I hope so, anyway.

ing, false dichotomies, and zero-sum Karnak the Magnificent hocum predictions of the future you will see on this board.

It's not about solutions; it IS about 3rd party base-building out of the wreckage, death, and destruction wrought by a TeaThug fascist President, or by an even more fully TeaThug Congress with an even more hog-tied PO, while a bunch of posers go and suck on their principles in hiding and blame others for what they weren't willing to do themselves. They're looking for their own Daddy or their very own King and blaming the guy who is telling them that they are the ones who are responsible for making their own realities functional and real. Which is just fine by them, because he's the perfect cause and excuse for their own dysfunction.

P.S. Firebaggers, if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it and if you try it on, I must only conclude you do so, because you recognize it as your own.

They pretend like they'e on a grand crusade to make a difference,
but the only thing they ever do is talk trash about those who don't fit their ideal.

And there are those who prefer character-building exercises, I suppose.

Pretty sadistic.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Scalia, Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Kennedy are already on the Court

Let's face facts none of them are going to retire if Obama gets re-elected.
They may die (p...l...e...a...s...e do)
If you want to argue Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy will retire if a Republikkan wins I agree with you on that

To summarize your argument: "You think Obama's bad, check out the GOP and be very very afraid!!" ...and since trampling all over activist Democrat ideology has no consequences, Obama and other national Democrats leaders will continue to pursue GOP-lite strategies that please their corporate donors. Don't you get why the GOP craps the bed if they cross the Tea Partiers? Because the teabaggers will vote them out of office.

If you reject Obama, you give it to them.

Don't think you can avoid that karmic debt.

There won't be any Karmic debt in that case, if we have voted our conscience.

:sarcasm:

The capacity for self-righteous self-justification from our friends in the Disorganized Left is truly remarkable.

Anyone who speaks to others in that manner is not representing anything but their own venting spleen.

The record is clear, and so is the trajectory.

Get real! EU citizens had the same great hopes for Obama as did we progressives, i.e., that he would put an end to Bush/Chaney/MIC's endless war-making, empire building, and the whole obscene concept of American exceptionalism. I base this comment on my regular reading of the foreign press, my friends and acquaintances from the EU, and in particular my conversations with people in Dublin and in Berlin after Obama's visit there and before the election.

They NEVER expected Obama's blatant shift to the right and his expanded wars in the middle east. They think the US is insane to spend our national treasure (both our youth and our taxes) on wars while our social & physical infrastructures crumble. I'm headed back to the UK next month and I hope to have a brief respite from the nightmare the third way group has wreaked upon traditional Democratic values. I am so ashamed of the death and destruction Obama, Panetta, et al inflict in the Middle East.

I just accepted a request to work on the campaign of a progressive Democrat at the county level. Got to rebuild our party from the ground up.

I hadn't thought about it lately, but you are exactly right. People in Europe were as excited about new Democratic leadership as many in America were. It appears that the entire world is having to wake up now to the facade of the US two-party system and the pervasiveness of corporate infiltration into worldwide politics.

My admiration and respect for what you are doing at the ground level. We will be joining you. It is our only hope.

of the debt ceiling issue. Just read a report from Ireland today that the EU wants to enact a standard corporate tax rate throughout the EU, but the Obama administration has it's Ambassador threatening that the US corporations would pull out of Ireland and go to Iceland(right!) if Ireland dared raise its corporate tax.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Dan-Rooney-warns-Irish-government-not-to-cut-corporation-tax-rate-128065598.html

Dan Rooney warns Irish government not to change corporation tax rate
American companies wary of any increase says Ambassador
By
CATHAL DERVAN,
IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

Published Friday, August 19, 2011, 8:29 AM
Updated Friday, August 19, 2011, 12:45 PM


America’s Ambassador to Ireland has warned the Dublin government against any increase in the corporation tax rate as it may force US companies out of Ireland.

Dan Rooney made his comments as pressure mounts from France and Germany for a common corporate tax rate across Europe.

Rooney was speaking in Mullingar at the last of the open forums he has held all across the country in the wake of his appointment to the role by President Obama in 2009.

The French and Germans want a common tax policy before the end of 2012 but Rooney is adamant that Ireland must maintain its current 12.5 per cent rate to protect American investment.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You abuse your posting privileges here when all you offer is snark and no links to credible sources.

So, find me a current (this summer) editorial from an EU paper praising Obama. I'd love to read it.

Tens of thousands of adoring Irish filled the street to see him.

No matter how much he is reviled by Firebaggers,
the World still smiles upon him.

As I requested before, give us a link to a current endorsement of Obama from the EU. You got nothing!

The Irish like a good party, and a head of state visit is good entertainment. The Irish still got screwed by the mortgage bubble which infected them from the US, and the Irish are still anti-war. The Irish economy is in desperate shape and Obama is threatening them, through his ambassador, that US corporations will go to Iceland (Hah! Not bloody likely) if the Irish raise corporate taxes.

Actually, Obama should stfu on this one, and maybe some of those US corporations would return the jobs from Ireland to the US if Ireland increases the corporate tax rate.

Not that this will mean a damn thing to the mindless bashers, but:

2009 "Poll: Obama's Popularity Lifts U.S. Global Image" http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8155223&page=1

2010 "Obama Gets High Marks Abroad, Survey Finds" http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/world/18pewpoll.html

2011 "Worldwide Approval of U.S. Leadership Tops Major Powers
U.S. also remains top desired destination for potential migrants" http://www.gallup.com/poll/146771/Worldwide-Approval-Leadership-Tops-Major-Powers.aspx

parts of the world think of Obama now. Working in International Commerce, I believe Europeans in general are scared shitless over the debacle on the debt ceiling that Obama so ably presided. He is considered there to be an impossibly naive politician who has a pleasant demeanor but no real grasp of international issues. He is not well received in the Arab world. The Chinese are doubtful of his ability to maintain the US economy. South America has essentially written him off as just being another US President who totally ignores them, except when it comes to a job-losing (for us) Free Trade deal. In fact, Obama's 'popularity' in the rest of the world comes down to "well, he's not as bad as Bush". These are a little more significant than a few thousand Irish milling in the streets to take photos of the President with their I-phones when he comes to town.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/e-u-financial-regulator-criticizes-u-s-on-banker-bonuses/

LONDON —The European Union’s top official for banking regulation has accused the Obama administration of being too lax on bonuses for bankers and not putting in place capital rules fast enough.

Michel Barnier, the European commissioner for the internal market and services and a former foreign minister of France, warned that a failure to unify financial regulation in Europe and the United States could give some banks an unfair advantage over their foreign rivals.

“The level playing field must be a reality, not an empty slogan,” Mr. Barnier wrote in a letter to the Treasury secretary, Timothy F. Geithner, whom he is to meet in Washington on Thursday.

Mr. Barnier also criticized the American approach to restrictions on bonuses as leaving “too much latitude” for financial institutions to “circumvent globally agreed principles. I think you agree with me that ‘bankers’ bonuses’ is a matter that continues to cause public outrage,” Mr. Barnier wrote in the letter. “Getting this matter right is key to restoring our citizens’ confidence in the financial system — and ultimately — their confidence in the public authorities regulating the financial institutions.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294907/Transatlantic-rift-U-S-EU-Commission-head-criticises-Obamas-debt-policies.html

Now confidence in Obama plunges in Europe too as Barroso says EU-US relationship is not 'living up to its potential'
(Headline)

Dwindling support: Nearly 60 per cent of Americans no longer have faith in President Barack Obama's decision making
(Sub headline)

The EU’s most senior figure has revealed disappointment with President Barack Obama’s presidency and has called for efforts to revive transatlantic relations. Jose Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission, said the EU-US relationship was not ‘living up to its potential’ and was being weakened by disagreements on how to deal with the economic crisis.

Mr Barroso cited climate change and trade reform as further reasons for the rift in an interview with The Times.

The comments came after it was revealed that nearly 60 per cent of American voters say they have little or no faith in President Barack Obama.

The Washington Post said problems in housing, sluggish job growth and other economic issues may have taken a toll on Obama’s ratings.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294907/Transatlantic-rift-U-S-EU-Commission-head-criticises-Obamas-debt-policies.html#ixzz1VVtC0etI

Yes, the vapidity of that response somehow feels familiar to me...

:rofl:

just sort the board by author

so I have, indeed, talked a great deal about his policies and political viewpoints. In fact, if you do a search of my posts here, I very often write OP's and include extensive supporting information for my posts.

You see, I have a strong, principled attachment to the longstanding principles, goals, and values of the Democratic Party in this country, including defense of the poor and elderly, fair taxation, and judicious use of the military. Not to any one man. To the values, principles, and goals. That is why I am a Democrat.

By contrast, we have a President in office who has already offered up Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid on a platter, even while extending tax cuts for the obscenely wealthy and expanding war into new countries. He now has his Secretary of Defense publicly pitting war spending and social safety nets against each other in public statements, in order to justify sustaining the military industrial complex while cutting already meager benefits for the poor and elderly when the Super Congress convenes later this year.

He has spent the past several months validating every Republican lie about this economy and what it needs to recover, backing massive slashes in spending and benefits that have been warned against by hundreds of economists and that will likely plunge us into even more severe economic devastation. He has staffed his administration with people who - as shown by their resumes, histories, and public statements - will continue to help him work toward corporate, right-leaning economic and military policies, rather than the policies that the vast majority of economists have repeatedly stated that the country needs, and that American voters have clearly stated that they want.

So, yes, I come here to join many other principled Democrats who are also expressing horror at the hijacking of our party by Third Way-backed corporate interests. We use this DEMOCRATIC message board in order to reinforce our shared commitment to traditional DEMOCRATIC values and to try to push the party back into representing us and these goals, rather than the wealthy bankers, corporations, and lobbyists.

So, yes. *of course* I have spent a great deal of time here talking about Obama and his policies. In fact, that appears to be the very significant difference between us.

You, by contrast, posted here to gripe about ME. :eyes:


.

They just have these pathetic, empty one-line insults.

You should at least wash your socks before drawing faces on them so they don't smell quite so obvious.

i am going with returning banned member flying under radar

which I thought a majority of the country was looking for at the time.

We still had habeas corpus under Clinton.

And that is why turnout will be low among the left and independents and Obama will get his ass kicked Mondale style.

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a house,' - Barak Obama

Maybe that doesn't matter to a healthy grahamgreen.

But it does matter to millions of others.

The very Reform you like to shit on is saving their lives.

But that doesn't matter somehow. You can't see beyond your own wants.

keep the pre-existing clause, who would suffer?

And when you can charge thousands of dollars per month or week for the pre-existing coverage, who can afford it?

We must scrap this travesty and get single-payer.

The mandate will not lower insurance prices. Big insurance will simply put their mandated profits into their own pockets. and use the trillions they get to destroy the weak reforms in the bill, agreed?

(http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:k2pZl0sNatwJ:hcfan.3cdn.net/578b1f7456962bfa7a_r6m6bhcjn.pdf+health+insurance+profits+statistics&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh56pwmgB8l5InQ2t3oc7xLJEKE_v3HcGcpjJCFRUUVoHvN6YTCn6HsoZB-XIB7BDtzTUy3op8sk6yRKSvOOFylzqT7CYnyUNhj_f0IcKrGMcOH5CF8C1c4sVZeG1T1b3E4dYGK&sig=AHIEtbSW2Ts_zshh87DW8WRvqIlk4XlaFA)

You can't just pretend we live in some fantasyland where the Insurance industry is going to be closed down in a day and Single Payer put in its place.

If that is your goal, you might as well be trying to move Mt Everest by head butt.

I am surprised to see how easily Rick Parry has floated to the top. A Bible in one hand, a gun in the other. I have no issue with the Bible or guns, but I am will never support a candidate that asks God to save us. The picture of Nostradamus' prediction of the Anti-Christ comes to mind.........
To get ahead, or at least move ahead, everyone should have to give a little. What happened to the days of Vietnam and protesting to let it be heard that the public at large doesn't support the Congressional, or Presidential platforms? Are people actually so mesmerized, or lazy that few people stand up and scream that their wishes, beliefs and wants are not what their Congressmen are voicing.
The world is getting scarier everyday, and the reports from the media are hard to sort into believable, or a joke. A speaker on a recent show voiced that Americans have lost hope, and I believe that is true. We have become complacent with others calling the shots and believing that the average American can no longer make a difference; we leave the guidance up to others who have been bought and paid for.
The 2012 election looks to be a religious race on the Republican side, and the Democrats are just an ambulance crew running around and bandaging the damage as it spreads.
What happened to us?

dissatisfied biut will hold their nose and vote for Obama.

guess not....

You can't shit all over Obama in a vacuum.

Every time you do, it helps the Repukes.

Deep down, you know this to be true. Maybe that's why you're so frustrated.
You realize what your doing isn't really enacting progress at all.

Just to dilute the quality of the debate and the quality of this website. And you're just doing great!

not losing under the Obama administration?

But that doesn't fit you're framing, now does it?

If it did, you'd acknowledge that I didn't say anything about cuts.

All you've got is name-calling, which stems from weakness.

But go ahead. Convince yourself you're a big, tough political debater because you can call anonymous people names from an anonymous position on an anonymous message board. :eyes:

...and welcome aboard!

Regarding your post, yes...to some people here it is worth it. Logic is lost.

Oh, and a :applause: for the use of the word "shittastic"!

fixated on Obama and take every action by him or criticism of him personally have lost sight of reality.

It is about asking our leaders to have some standards, to support the people. It is about vocalizing opposition to any positions that are antithetical to people's dignity and rights. It is about always pushing for something better.

Just a note, it was a Democratic President that signed off on 'reforming' Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

They proudly post it on the WH website.

"Bipartisan committee process tasked with identifying an additional $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction, including from entitlement and tax reform. Committee is required to report legislation by November 23, 2011, which receives fast-track protections. Congress is required to vote on Committee recommendations by December 23, 2011.

...

To Meet This Target, the Committee Will Consider Responsible Entitlement and Tax Reform. This means putting all the priorities of both parties on the table – including both entitlement reform and revenue-raising tax reform.

...

And the President will demand that the Committee pursue a balanced deficit reduction package, where any entitlement reforms are coupled with revenue-raising tax reform that asks for the most fortunate Americans to sacrifice. "

http://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheet-victory-bipartisan-compromise-economy-american-people

"Reform", I suppose, can be defined many ways. It doesn't have to be nefarious.

is "no cuts to current beneficiaries". What has been floated is rather huge cuts to future beneficiaries, including those in their mid 50's who will have basically no time to make alternate plans.

into the bill. The 12 on the bicameral commission are going to be the 'reformers' here.

Try again.

you still refuse to believe it?

"...Your loving son, Queen Victoria."

Welcome to DU! :hi:

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Might as well let the Pukes own it.

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We don't have to wait for Republicans to destroy us - it's happening right now.

We've gone from hope and change back to voting for the lesser of two evils. It makes me ill.

SS and Medicare.

You just got to three, sport. You'll never make a Democratic Party Operative with those numbers.

That falls entirely on Obama's head. He knows very well what he's doing, he's not stupid.

And this is Democratic Underground, not Obama or the Highway Underground.