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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 01:57 AM
Original message
For those who say Osama was executed without trial...
Why aren't you considering that he was killed while resisting arrest?

From what I gather, we don't know one way or the other.

Don't you think we should give the Seals and their commanders the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are in?

For instance, don't you think president Obama would have wanted him to be tried in court, stretch it out so that the trial would erase the tea baggers and the Donald off the cable channels?

Seriously, think about it, politically it would have been better for the president to put him on trial.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. So you're thinking he was resisting arrest?
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Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well, do you think he would cooperate? Or allow himself to be taken alive? n/t
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Please, he and his cronies were using other people as human shields and participating in a firefight
Get real and stop trying to inject phony concerns into the discourse.
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. If anything, that part reeks
way too much of cheap propaganda. Remember Jessica Lynch?
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. It sounds like it could be....
But then again I don't know.

I'm just pondering the fact that there are people her and everywhere, I guess, who will always take the worst case scenario.

Again, I'm just saying that he could have been killed resisting arrest. We won't know until all the facts are in.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. I'm not sure there's a lot of precedent when assassinating people on foreign soil
You're right though, no one knows what really happened.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
46. When the orders were to kill him, not take him prisoner?
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Gamow Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. NPR reported he "resisted", and was killed.
They also reported Osama's adult son was killed, along with a woman who was being used as a human shield.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Uh yeah. I just heard that on MSNBC him and his cronies
were firing, he sure didn't put his hands up in the air and surrender.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Its a phony complaint coming from phony people.
No one with half an ounce of common sense and knowledge of the way our system works really believes that a known criminal or suspected criminal has had their rights violated when they end up dying while actively participating in a firefight to avoid apprehension. These people making this claim aren't the least bit geniune. Its just all the have to latch onto, like its a precious last meal or something.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. +1
I'm slowly realizing that people who hold certain positions are lying trolls, not real people.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. Yes these arguments are all phony and fake
using any excuse and fake concern to dump on everything that the US does.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. After Falluja, and Abu Graib, and Pat Tillman and Brad Manning,
after two stolen Bush elections and illegal NSA wiretapping, you believe Americans shouldn't be concerned about their government and due process?

Wow.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. After my fucking ass.
Due process is not a concern at all when you are talking about a known terrorist that has been fucking with this country for more than 2 decades. This guys is responsible for ordering countless atrocities. There is NO reason to have a hard time believing that he was resisting apprehension and participating in a firefight given his background, NONE.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm curious--under whose authority would he be arrested and held?
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. The other side of that is by whose authority did he plan and execute
an attack on American soil.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Well, his own, I suppose--he's not part of a state. I'm just thinking through
the capture and trial scenario, and how that might have worked. NATO? UN? US? I just don't see how this wouldn't turn into a huge and dangerous circus, even if we were OK with the enormous risk to the mission and our forces by trying to capture him alive.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. American arrest warrent:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden

The US likely has an auto-extradition treaty with Pakistan.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. There ya go--I was wondering if Pakistan would have had to hand him over.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. I think your take on this is correct: resisting arrest.
However, I have to say that I'm glad he did not live to stand trial, weird as that may sound.

Consider that he most likely would have gone to Guantanamo, and been tortured, and then (maybe) put before a military tribunal.

I'm really glad we avoided all that. It would have been a nightmare...

I don't think justice would have been served if those things had happened.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Peggy, i think they would have bound him over to New York...
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Actually, Chris, I don't think so...
I forget the name of the other one who was supposed to be tried in New York, and there was so much uproar that the trial will happen in Guantanamo...

I was not happy with that decision, and the same fate would have happened to Bin Laden, had he survived.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. 'politically it would have been better for the president to put him on trial' - NEGATIVE
For better or worse, America has a blood lust and this will serve him far better politically than a trial would have.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Well, we disagree...
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DailyGrind Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. Blood lust?
All those public excecutions and stonings and beheadings totally back that theory up.

Oh, wait.

We're not a bloodthirst country, but I can't think of too many Americans that didn't want this guy dead. Some people just need killin.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. Aw shut up.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. it was well established
that he stated he was not to be taken alive. He ordered his guards to kill him if America came close to capturing him. He chose death. If he wanted to humiliate America, he could have said something like "I will surrender, but only to either Gaddafi or the Palestinian authority".
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. Just don't worry about them
Nobody cares about their whining right now.
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MiddleFingerMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
49. +1 n/t
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. ideally, yes, captured would have been better, but that is more difficult to
achieve.........
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. My contention is really a question...
Why do some people always jump to the worst conclusion when all the facts aren't even in yet.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. OMG! Is that your moral cover?
So you can comfortably believe this was different than the attempt on Gaddafi that doesn't seem to have killed anyone?

NO WAY IN HELL WERE WE TAKING THAT MAN ALIVE.

Where do you think they were planning to put him? Guantanamo? A room at the White House? For what kind of trial where?

Dead was the option and there was no other option.
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Proof please
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. This isn't a personal morality question...
Edited on Mon May-02-11 02:36 AM by WCGreen
This is just wondering why some people always think that the US government will always, always choose an illegal and immoral course of action...
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. Nuremberg-type trial.
It could have been done. Perhaps they could even have "broken" him and gotten him to recant. There were many options that would not have devolved into a security problem or political circus. But I do agree that simply killing was a better political option.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. yeah, there was a Faux Newz headline in Dec 2001 stating he was dead
...so I'm just waiting to see what kind of evidence comes out. I have not jumped to any conclusions, it's just a fact that it's easier to destroy something/one than to catch him/her alive.
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MyrnaLoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
27. Fuk him
He's dead, he needed to be dead, and it's about time he became dead.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
44. What Ms. Loy said. nt
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
28. I'm pretty sure they wanted to take him alive, but the likelihood of that was low.
Bottom line, if they could have snagged him it would have been an incredible intelligence boon. If they could have, they would have.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
32. I would have like to seen him go to trail and explain who he was
working with. but it is likely he would have been armed and willing to fight to the death rather than get busted.
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
35. Benefit of the doubt?
"Don't you think we should give the Seals and their commanders the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are in?"

I don't think people who make murder their profession deserve my benefit of the doubt. How much benefit of the doubt do you give air force pilots and their commanders who regularly, routinely bomb civilian settlements, for example?
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
36. I'm VERY glad we took him dead instead of alive.
Imagine months of nauseating hand-wringing about how OBL deserves a standard civilian trial with full legal protections.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
58. He would, no matter what it might do to your digestive system.
Of course my reaction to his killing was "good" but if he was captured then a trial is demanded by our system.

What else should we do? These people aren't in an army, they are criminals and we have only one criminal system and that is with a purpose.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
38. They took out the right person.
He declared war on us, brought it to us and we repaid him in kind. There will undoubtedly be many more who will spring up in his place, but that particular won had a place reserved in hell for him.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
39. +1
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
40. Well we all know Osama was just a a softie
He was probably waving a white flag more than willing to go with the US soldiers. :sarcasm:

I cannot believe people. This guy would have rather died for his "cause" to be considered a martyr than give himself up to the United States. His people were willing to fight to the death to prevent him being taken by the US.
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DailyGrind Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
41. Fox News quotes and intelligence source that he was asked to surrender before being shot
No indication of what language they used ... ;)

Who understands Swahili anyway?
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DailyGrind Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Drudge has conflicting reports that it was a kill operation
Who cares, it's so much better that he's dead and gone.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Fox? Drudge?
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DailyGrind Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Sorry. I meant to say Mother Jones and Al Jazeera
Those references were all over this board, as well as other outlets.

Just give me a list of Party Approved News Outlets and I'll make sure and never stray again; comrade.

Sheesh.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
42. but who said Osama was executed without trial? where did this come from? tea-party'ers
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #42
51. More than a few threads last night implied the Osama wa executed...
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
48. I ain't shedding any tears, but... I noticed Obama said bin Laden was killed AFTER a fire fight
Not "during", not "because", not "in" a firefight, but was killed after a firefight. Seems odd. Was he parsing words?
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DailyGrind Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Pretty sure the fight ended when his head blew up
That's usually a pretty effective to end an fight.
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hugo_from_TN Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
52. The president ordered him killed and it was the proper order.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
53. I've read Bin Laden and I KNOW he wasn't going to be captured alive
If he were, he would have committed suicide
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Did you read my post......
I wasn't questioning what happened, I was questioning the poeple who always assume the worst when it come to the government...
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Oh - I might have posted this in the wrong part of the thread
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
55. You might want to read this story on Reuters:
Edited on Mon May-02-11 02:55 PM by coalition_unwilling
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502

OK, yeah, I know unnamed source tells Reuters. But still, I haven't seen anything saying OBL was "resisting arrest" either other than various posts here on DU.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Again, i was not questioning the outcome nor the motive...
I was questioning that there are people who always jump to conclusions before all the facts are in hand.

And as you pointed out, this is an unnamed source.
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