My husband was a NYC firefighter, and I am not dancing on the grave

Nor is my husband, who was disabled by 9/11. When he saw the pictures of people celebrating today, he was disgusted. It is like a football game, he said, and we won. Let's cheer, and shout USA, USA. We killed a man. Let's cheer. He said it makes no difference, there are many more where he came from, and none of this brings people back. Yes, justice was served. We are both quietly satisfied with that. But people are not coming back.

Neither of us wanted OBL to get away with what he did, but we both feel that the response of many Americans will make us look just like the other side, people who would dance if anything happened to our leaders. And my husband, who refuses to identify as any political party, is more liberal than I am, in that he understood right away how this man's death doesn't change anything, except how we are viewed in the world by our reaction.

We both would have attended a candlelight vigil, or something like that, but this celebrating is really upsetting to us. We are not supposed to cheer death in our Christian nation. We are supposed to be better.

I am at lunch, I can't respond until after work, I don't want to cause flames, I just wanted to share our view, and our discomfort. I have been here a long time, I don't like to see us act like them, but it is everyone's personal choice how to see this death and respond to it.

Peace,
Adigal

This over the top celebration is just childish and way too reminiscent of the aftermath of a high school football game.

And not very fitting given the tragedy of this ordeal from 9/11 on-wards.

to challenge what other people feel the need to do. nor chatise them for their feelings

and just as I feel about the issue.

But it makes me feel a little sick that I protest against torture ie. Water boarding but I am suppose to be ok with a direct shot to the head according to some?

Torture serves no purpose, it is just sadism and shames our country. Confessions gotten through torture aren't worth anything, in fact, they often produce wrong information. And I doubt that they act as a deterrent, they probably just inflame hatred.

Executing a murderer (who is clearly guilty), I have no problem with that.

Also, why are we using the term justice instead of what this really was: payback. The two terms are not synonym.

adigal doesn't feel like 'dancing on the grave'. That's OK with me. But she has a problem with others like me who don't feel the same way about this, and says so. Where I come from that is 'telling others how they should feel'.

Justice and payback are not synonyms, as you say. But neither are they mutually exclusive. In this case, payback is justice served.

that does not seem right.
There may or may not have been a better way to bring him in.
The US gov 'created' him to goad another country, over and over American corporations (now internationals that they have become) have gone to other places for raw materials, using deception,coercion or bribery raided other peoples resources..IE our corps protected by the threat of military force if the other tactics did not work. And we wonder why they hate us? The keep dabbling in other governments in 'the American' (corporate interests).
Whether oil or bananas some pretty heinous sh(* has been done in our names.

In no way do I excuse OBL he was a big boy and he was wealthy and educated, what a great asset to the CIA for awhile.

I've been hearing many who had lost family on 9/11 or through the ensuing wars celebrate OBL's death, and that is their business and their right; they have been through hell and if this helps them, so be it.

I don't celebrate the loss of human life. That is my right.

What I don't have the right to do is chastise another over this, nor do I have the right to say that another human being's feelings are invalid.

But many of them are not liberal Democrats either. I am, and this is my response and the response of my husband.

Now I have to go, or I will get in trouble. Back to work.

Peace, all.

We should feel the way you feel?

rather than falling into clear cut camps of emotional response. The OP never claimed to speak for anyone but her family.

Everyone should observe this day according to their own experiences and feelings.

I'm just a political hack (and in-my-dreams Senior Advisor on Strategy and Tactics for the Democratic National Committee) so I'm gonna see it those terms. But anyone who was there in Lower Manhattan that day, especially the First Responders and their loved ones, should be listened to with great deference today - whichever way they feel like reacting.

And that is where the OP went sorely awry. There is a hell of a lot of condescension and judgment in the OP.

"discomfort" and "sickened" It's the judgment of how others feel. It's all over DU today. I don't know why people can't let others feel how they need to. It's a shame.

all over the site. I am not judging you, cheer all you want. I am sharing our thoughts and discomfort with your cheering. You are allowed to cheer. And I am allowed to find it upsetting.

There. I said it. The OP didn't.

but do we both agree that in the usa with freedom of speech and the right to assemble peacefully that people have the right to celebrate, even if it does make us look strange to many people around the world especially those who live in countries with no death penalties.

there would be cheering in the streets. And I think a lot of the cheering, at least for me, is for our president and how he could accomplish what the war mongers could not. I am proud of our Democratic party in general.

And I'm also proud of the republicans that gave him a standing ovation today!

It's a good day.

Did everyone who showed up at Ground Zero put "the rose in (their) hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall (they)wear a red yes and how (they) kissed (themselves) under the Moorish wall and (they) thought well as well (themselves) as another and then (they) asked (themselves) with (their) eyes to ask again yes and then (they) asked (themselves) would (they) yes to say yes (their) mountain flower and first (they) put (their) arms around (themselves) yes and drew (themselves) down to (themselves) so (they) could feel (their own) breasts all perfume yes and (their) hearts w(ere) going like mad and yes (they) said yes (they) will Yes."

I'd have liked to have seen that, actually...

Have you seen them cheering in the Arab world when there are some bad news about America's dead or killed?
Yep, looks disgusting to me.
We are not Christians if we cheer someone's death, in fact we have become a rather bloodlust society who cheers for anyone who can "kill 'em all".

The warmonger-in-chief and all of his "with us or agin us" talk cheered the nation on and into two wars. OTOH, I think the current POTUS took the exact right tone in announcing the death, and that's an important difference between the two.

To me the cheering in the street is embracing the kind of death cheering that we abhor when it's American deaths being celebrated (Somalia and the bodies of U.S. service members comes to mind as one example.)

I shed no tears for bin Laden or others of his ilk and think the world is a better place without them, but the public cheering really feels like we've lost our way as a culture.

She discounts any other position.

Judgemental in the extreme.

Unrec.

I just said that I thought that acting like we just won the Super Bowl was not the way I wanted to be portrayed. That it made us look like the other guys, the ones who cheer death on our side.

I just pulled up my driveway, and knew right away that my husband had been listening to NPR. They interviewed retired firefighter Viggiano, who lost two sons that day. He said just what we feel. That it had to be done, but he is not elated, like the Dodgers or Giants won the big game. Yes, it is justice served, but it is not a cause for celebration. We agree with him. If you want to celebrate, that is your business, but I don't have to approve of it. If you think that is judgmental, I am sorry you feel that way.

Most judgemental people I know.

I had to gag a few times before I could spit out that reply... leaning on a phrase calling the nation "Christian" followed by one of the least Christian acts there is... judgmental isn't something Christ taught, and he spoke out against such actions. Yet here we have someone using his name in vain yet again. Amazing. If he really did exist, and he really does come back, some people are going to be shocked at how pissed he is!

i think celebrating death is in poor taste but support freedom of speech and the right to assemble peacefully so if you want to go celebrate in the street go ahead, i just will not join in and will think that a celebration is in poor taste, that is not a put down, that is simply a difference of opinion about something.

You might want to read again.

I think the OP was expressing her own feelings.

By the way, since when did judgment become a bad thing? I guess since standards went into the bit bucket.

... are judging her and tut-tutting her feelings and the choice of wording she's used to express her feelings.

Pot, meet kettle.

for many different responses - all of them legitimate. Some will laugh, some will cry, some will jump up and down.

The country went through a lot of grief because of bin Laden and our often failed response to him. For some his death is closure, others not. We've been carrying this around for nearly 10 years and now the emotions are complicated.

Do what works for you.

... a good friend of mine, Steve, took jobs on breaks by driving long haul loads to strange places. It was how he earned enough to go to college. Steve was kinda a rough sounding and rough looking guy, overweight and a little crude, but a better or truer friend would be hard to find. The thing was he really wanted a girl friend but because of the way he looked and the fact that he was on the road on some weekends and every break meant that most of the girls wouldn't even give him the time of day. I personally saw some girls make fun of him after he would walk up to talk to them. He wasn't a creep or anything, he was just Steve. Lots of us guys noticed that lots of the shallow girls treated him like dirt.

One day we got word in the dorms. Steve was dead. The front tire on a truck he was driving blew and the truck rolled. The funny thing is that the people who were making the most public show of grief and emotion were the same shallow girls who had treated him like dirt.

all react in different ways to this. I personally don't think there's a right way or wrong way to respond; feelings can't be controlled by logic. This is a very unique day in history and I think we all need to observe it as we see fit.

Take care--and my warmest regards to both you and your husband.

applaud. i don't care what someone does. I agree, we have seen this behavior in response to the death of americans. we find it disgusting, yet it is ok for us to do it? thank you. I think what bin laden and his ilk have done is deplorable.... but it saddens me..... because I think about the things that fostered this hatred of america. and I do not feel any safer now that bin laden is dead. We have done nothing to change any minds with our invading of countries.... supporting dictators that have hurt their own people for our own gain. Bin laden may be dead, but how many more are out there.... and how many more are we creating every day.

:hug: for you and your husband.

Plus, it has not to do withh being "Christian". It has to do with being HUMAN. REal humans don't celebrate death like it was a football game.

David Sirota said this morning that this cheering says that OBL won. :cry:

Thank you for posting that. It is the best insight I have read so far on this.

:thumbsup: your words describe my views too

I don't usually agree with Sirota, but this morning I did. He said he didn't sleep well all night because it was bothering him (and he went through the 911 stuff in D.C., so he has some ground to stand on.)

The way we have given up our rights, the way we have wasted lives and treasure, the way we treat each other... it all reflects on the fact that bin laden won... quite some time ago, and he reveled in that victory.

His death changes NOTHING. We are still awash in our fears, in our inability to look at our own selves (and that includes "progressives"!), our unwillingness to look at how unhappy other people are in the world that would cause them to follow someone like OBL... all of these things are on OUR plate, and it is up to US.

WE have work to do, and that doesn't mean blaming the RW. It means getting our own house in order, so we can take back the victory we handed him.

Thus endeth my sermon. We will now take up a collection and sing a hymn. ^_^

Thanks for listening.. that has been moldering inside for too long. :hi: and :pals:

:pals: Good Sermon

When some wake up with their hangovers from their "We Finally Got OBL" dream, they will begin to see that all is not healed.

minutes ago was part of what I wanted to say and easy on the feeling part.
What you said!
When I heard that he was dead, I was relieved, next thought we will celebrate this like the 'ding dong the witch is dead' number form Wizard of Oz.

I have grave doubts about our country is / has become a police state.
What happened to Brave? What happened to Free?
What happened to Christian? Not kreestian or is it the Kreestian that has taken over our views? Or is it that Korporate Kreestian Right has gained such a hold in our corporate media that what we see is so distorted or have We been distorted?
Generally the people of whatever leaning are a hell of a lot more sane that what I see passes as media lately.

Bin Laden, really affect me more than any other posts on this subject. Thank you. K&R.

These are people who were likely only children when

the towers fell...They've lived most of their existence

in the shadow of this awful event and their

reacting as I would expect people of that age

and experience to react.:shrug:

older people tend to realize the difference between hollow victories and real ones.

Thank you.

A former student of mine has been posting the pledge of allegience and rah rah shit on FB all freakin day and I was getting ready to go over to his house and slap the silly shit out of his head. I needed to have it pointed out to me (and I KNOW this but I forgot) that he is YOUNG.

I let him rant and snort and get it out of his system and then I'll call him up and see if I can talk some sense into him.

and he wants to believe. Can't blame him for wanting to think that the world is just, when (you and I know) it isn't. This isn't a clear win. We have all lost quite a bit. Today is bittersweet, not a victory. Yeah, after it all settles down give him the opportunity to consider another point of view. A view that is not entirely opposite to his, but takes into account a wider perspective. :thumbsup: This over-the-top "USA No.1" reaction is all emotion. Not much logic or depth to it.

part of this world

bin laden was responsible for the deaths of a lot of people, including more Muslims than non-Muslims. I am happy the creep is dead, and I make no apologies for it

If I was around at the time, I would also celebrate the death of hitler.

I am glad he is not on this earth anymore, because of the future harm he could have caused, but I cannot celebrate killing another person. That is all.

Peace.

Sad to say, the attitudes expressed in the OP remind me of what I hear from right wing dogmatists who strive to sanctimoniously dictate "proper behavior" for everyone else.

We have changed as a nation, and not for the best. :cry:

Peace and :grouphug: for you and your husband.

The point of your post should be expanded upon in a separate thread. I feel the exact same way. I mean...what does characterize our country now?

-P

:grouphug:

That is exactly how I feel.

If someone wants to celebrate after all they have been through, that's fine by me. And I don't think anyone should put them down for it or chastise them, or have someone else's condescension lorded over them.

I think you should have graciously said nothing.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

It was the OP and her husband. Why shouldn't she be entitled to speak on the subject?

>I think you should have graciously said nothing.<

Oh, I see: Sit down and shut up.

:eyes:

And many who have lost loved ones feel completely different than does the OP. The OP condescends to those fellow sufferers, and I think it stinks. I have the right to say that too... oh, yes I do.

Thanks for your concern.

:eyes:

Now once I hit the red X, we won't need to deal with each other any longer. Thank God.

I've been a voting (and contributing, and volunteering,) member of the Democratic Party since before you were born. Furthermore, I put my money where my mouth was, and held elected office in our hometown. The purity tests are hysterical. I wonder where some of the more ardent were when I was knocking on doors and making GOTV calls in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, for instance.

You bet I'm going to stick up for the opinion of someone whose family paid a heavy cost on September 11, 2001. It's easy to sit back, slap a yellow "support the troops" ribbon on one's SUV, and decide how others should feel at a time like this. If she doesn't feel like standing in the street shouting "USA! USA!" because Osama bin Laden is dead, that is her right. It's also her right to say so, despite the fact she doesn't agree with your opinion.

It's also nice to know that theory is much more important than fact.

she graciously said SOMETHING.

she said something graciously. Any way you look at it the OP is the gracious one.

I tried to find condescension and found none. Honestly if I said what I'd like to say my post would be deleted. Good God. Unfuckingbelievable.

celebrating today. In some sense I perhaps understand it, but I cannot find it in me to condone it, nor will I be overly critical of it, just some personal repulsion.

My daughter lives in NYC and was there on 9/11 not too far away. It was a time of great concern for us personally as one would expect.

Thank Your Husband for his service.

I too was totally disgusted by the chants.
I'm happy he's dead, and OK with the fact he was killed, but to me those chanting "USA, USA" are basicaklly clueless.

Like you, I could not join in the cheering and dancing. I lit a candle and then went to bed early. My thoughts were not with Bin Laden but with the events of 9/11.

I wish you and your husband and the families of his friends and coworkers peace. And, remember, we could only see the people who needed to celebrate. The majority of us, however, were quietly at home wrapped up in our own thoughts.

You would hope that the cameras were just trained on the silly kids, but we seem to get it everywhere. Kind of makes you want to ask that if killing Osama was such an important thing to these young revelers, why weren't they in the military?

We are a football nation.

The vast majority of Americans are going about their daily lives today. A small precentage celebrated in Times Square, Ground Zero and outside the White House........but most of the country is getting on with the business of living.

I won't apologize for being glad Osama's dead. I and others here are not dancing in the streets merely on an internet message board.

And as to the 'Christian Nation thing'.......trust me, I've seen a lot worse from so called Christians for a long, long time in America.

And we are all on the same side here, even if we differ.

Adigal

I find that aspect of the whole event appaling

Yes, give Obama credit where credit is due, and yes, killing OBL is a good thing

HOWEVER, grave dancing is not

It's sick, ghoulish and wrong

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1005981#1008089



Struck me that they were bearing witness to the moment. And although it's a pic of their backs, most of them looked somber and in thought.

Hugs to you and your husband.


edited for typo

I just heard from a friend who is an NYPD officer who was on duty that day. His comment was, "I don't think I've ever had a morning as emotionally bizarre as today. I don't think most of us know how we feel right now. As for me, I'm numb and I can't mentally focus."

and it is that even if other events stem from it.

I appreciate your sharing your friend's response. It's a very honest statement that I'm sure applies to many.

I also think it likely that for some, this closing of the chapter will trigger more memories of the past decade and a retrospective on this time and of the many people who are not here now to hear this news.

Hugs to you and your friend.

I was sad when I first heard about this because I thought we went in with the express intention of killing him. I felt this made us as bad as the Republicans. When I heard more information it was very clear that Bin Laden was not going to be taken alive even if we had wanted it that way. I still will not dance on his grave but I am glad we did not go in with the sole purpose of killing him. I am also happy that this shows how mistaken the other side was about how ineffective Obama would be.

I'm not crying either. I'm glad he's gone. I still have food to put on the table and a mortgage to pay. This doesn't effect me directly at all.

I am not "celebrating" the death of OBL. I am celebrating all the service of all the people who signed up to fight to bring this terrorist to Justice. That part is worth celebrating.

There are those who say that the terrorists hated "our values." If so, the we should reiterate our value that human life has meaning and worth and should be treasured greatly. That is what I value and that is why I have mixed feelings today.

I also believe that we fight for our values every time we stand up for the powerless, act to improve the lot of others and work for justice here, in this country. Those things are not gone because of the mixed feelings I have on the death of this one man. I agree with your husband, but I have no problem with the people who are not sad this terrorist is dead.

The propaganda here at DU is working great though. USA #1!

Some are very, very defensive when they are asked why they are so happy and what do they think is different now?

Of course I don't really get why others are seemingly pissed he is dead either.

The emotions seem extreme all around to me, particularly the scoffing anger at those who aren't dancing in the streets and the blistering holier than thou recriminations from. Those that are seemingly upset that bin Laden was caught up with.

Seems to be a blood lust orgy and holier than thou fusion that isn't sane or healthy here.

Would you feel differently if your husband had perished and not survived?

I, for one, am glad the asshole is dead.

Glad that he is no longer a danger, glad that Obama is the one who did it, and not feeling like celebrating. Most of the survivors I have heard on my way home express similar sentiments.

It would be awful hard for me to feel as you do if my husband was killed in 9-11.

You are a better person than I.

While I am glad that Osama Bin Ladin is gone, terrorism is like a hydra, you cut one head off and onother will grow back. People celebrating the death like they would a football game kind of reminds me of the way some muslims might celebratee an attack on a western/Christian target. Christians and Muslams are more alike then they want to admit.

"this man's death doesn't change anything"

I guess it makes a difference to the families and relatives of any person that might have been killed in some future high casualty attack planned by Bin Laden.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for posting this.

I was also disgusted. Of course, OBL needed to be brought to justice and I cry no tears in his death. But this whole celebrating reminds me of the people who celebrated in the streets in the Middle east at 9/11.

This is not a football game. Bloodlust...I just don't get it.

-P

I have no disagreement with anything else you said, except that one statement.
-------------------
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

-- The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by Pres. John Adams on June 10, 1797

It was troubling to me to hear that people's reactions toward the death of OBL were out of line in a "Christian Nation", not to mention the labeling of my country as solely belonging to one single group, and a religious one at that. We are most definitely NOT a nation composed only of christians, so that statement was just factually inaccurate.

As for how people react, I don't have a rule that allows me to sit in judgment of how other humans express their feelings, esp. when I have not walked a mile in their shoes. Other than inaccurately describing this to be only a nation for christians, I think your reaction is valid for your circumstances, and the same goes for those who are into cheering and grave dancing done for their own particular reasons.

However one chooses to memorialize this moment, for me it is one of great relief and significance, and I am happy that OBL is dead.

"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy." -- George Washington

I see this OP sitting in judgement.

Aren't supposed to sit in judgment of anyone. You have a right to your own feelings, and anyone who is celebrating has the right to theirs in equal measure... and you have judged them. I'm not judging your feelings, you have the right to feel as you choose. You do not, however, have the right to come down on others because of their feelings. I find that horrifically repulsive.

she "comes down on others". Cause I don't see it. I don't see any judgement at all. Nor it seems does anyone else in this thread or at least as strongly as you do. Seriously what has you so upset? She was polite and the OP quite gentle. "Judgemental"??? No where do I see words or phrases like "horribly repulsive"

And on edit: Her responses to you have been classy to a fault. I wish I had that kind of restraint.

Is that wrong?

no death of Bin Laden can pay for what was unleashed and what our own leaders perpetrated as a result of it.

There is no justice for those of us left holding the bag--ie. the average American.

Unless there was a trial, a conviction, and a sentence, a due process, then there was no justice. Only vengeance. The whole point of our "exceptionalism" is that no matter who you are or what you did, there is due process. That is why extra judicial executions, military commissions, rendition, and torture is a rejection of who we claim to be and a rejection of our "exceptionalism".

I work with a NYC firemen and he was thrilled, we were doing the Obama bump and since I work for Homeland security and see all the crap they try to pull daily I am happy for a change that we got it done.

nt

We won!!! Yay!!!

What did we really win? Nothing.

If you'll notice, most of those in videos are young people who were children when Osama bin Laden became a household word. He is a symbol to them, nothing more. He is their Hitler. They are mindlessly celebrating what they perceive as a victory. Forgive them. It's finals time.

I am pleased that Osama bin Laden has been hunted down and held accountable for the evil he inspired. It gives me faith in the competence of our leadership. I am satisfied that the head of the snake has been cut off. I am hopeful that this event signals the beginning of the end of our wars in the Middle East. I want our soldiers to come home. I want America to begin to heal itself from the open wound caused by the horror of 9/11. Perhaps, the death of bin Laden will hasten that healing.

But I would never dance in the streets over anyone's death. I am a grown-up and it is not seemly or proper. The broadcasts of Americans celebrating make me nearly as uncomfortable as the reports of the celebrations in the Middle East after 9/11. Both instances require that the grown-ups among us understand that those spontaneous displays do not represent the feelings of those in positions of leadership. With Obama as president, I do feel better. He is not a cowboy.

You and your husband are right to feel discomfort about those demonstrations. Many of us do.

this.

I won't miss Bin Laden. But last night I saw this praised as "a moment of peace". It isn't as edifying an experience as some seem to find it.

for your thoughtful post.

It IS like a football game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and a Small Town High School Team,
where the Small Town High School Team repeatedly skunks the Steelers for 10 straight years.
The Steelers finally score a touchdown in year ten, but still lose the game (Patriot Act, 3 WARS, over a million dead, $Trillions wasted), and the Steelers fans go crazy like they WON something.

This entire situation is a national disgrace and embarrassment.
The very BEST thing that could be quietly & humbly said is,
"Well, at least we scored some points in the end."

Grave Dancing & Victory Laps are not only unseemly & unmerited,
they will increase blow back,
and make it MORE difficult for the US to operate in Muslim countries.

We should Walk Away from this national disgrace as quickly and quietly as possible.

K&R

good analogy :thumbsup: :shrug:

                                                            Nice Kitties (not)

I had a friend or family member killed by Bin Laden's actions.

Unfortunately, I think the crowds are mostly comprised of jingoes getting off on a "win".

There's a difference between being glad that OBL is dead and taking to the streets waving a flag and chanting about it.

:grouphug:

I also realize that people are going to go through a wide range of emotions and will react in their own ways. Personally, I just can't do the grave dancing thing nor the nationalistic chants. Cheering death in our "Christian nation" (I really don't think we are a Christian nation) seems to be some sort of catharsis for some and just a reason to party for others.

as it brings back the emotions and anguish over the events of that day.

I hope what has happened will give some sense of closure or justice to families, but obviously this brings no loved one back. I think each person needs to reflect on this in the way they see fit. For some, that may be a public act of jubilation. For others, I think it is simply a sober reminder of the events of that September day. I think Obama did a fine job in mentioning that yesterday.

I wish your husband and others all the best in coping with all these events. It must be stressful in ways I cannot imagine.

:grouphug:

Thank you for sharing this.

Thank you for your reasoned, impassioned, and articulate post.

to a traumatizing event that left so much hurt and anger in its wake. People just needed to express themselves. Some did it loudly, some did it with quiet dignity. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to react to this news.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband. I hope he's doing OK.

take care ... :hug:

and your wonderful husband. You stated what you felt and although some want you to 'sit down and shut up', 'don't rain on their parade', and similar your feelings are just as, and in some instances more, justified than anyone else's.

Thank you for this post that reflects exactly how I feel about such celebrating. Thank your husband for his service.

:hug:

i will dance in the street when 911 survivors get the benefits and health care they deserve. I hope your husband and you are getting by ok with his disability. In my opinion he should be set for life financially and medically speaking but i know that is unlikely in the usa of today.

I respect your opinion and I am very sorry for your husbands loss. I even recommended your thread. However I strongly disagree. Here, thousands of miles away from Ground Zero, I read the obituaries in the Times for days. I wept for those strangers and their families. It was my way of coping.

Today I feel they have just a little justice. Maybe I'm wrong, certainly I'm not living up to my Episcopalian faith, but I rejoice in this monsters death.

This is certainly not meant as a flame, and I really do respect your opinion because you have n enormous personal stake, but I will not change my opinion that this is a wonderful development and a joyous day. Hopefully God will forgive me for my shortcomings in character.

I work at an airport and see the soldiers leave daily and worse see the caskets come home. We are expecting a body this week. I can only hope the sailors on the Carl Vinson kicked him over the side of the ship in honor of the Cole sailors. I work with two NYC first responders and they were happy as can be yesterday. The Seals kicked ass and they are the reason I was Happy.

am i the only person finding it hard to revel in this news? another soldier died in afghanistan this weekend...

I'm repulsed by the faux patriotism disguised as revenge but really is populist nationalism. Living in NYC, also not looking forward to living in a target zone.

6000 dead troops have just been reduced into a faux sporting event - is this the end of the game or just the touch down before half time. The whole spectator sport aspect of this reminds me of gladiator deaths in roman colluseums, -- entertainment for the masses -- troops and innocent lives as gladiators.

I'm sure the Hollywood remake starring Tom Cruise, will be a blockbuster. Thanks but no thanks.

And thank you and your husband for your sacrifices.

I agree with you. My schooling was filled with examples of how morally superior we are. Are the same people celebrating who were offended by other countries dancing after 9/11? Why is our celebrating different (that is, better) than theirs?

Maybe before we sacrificed all those lives in Afghanistan and Iraq (both ours and theirs) and before we knew of all the sacrifices of the first responders, I might have been able to feel some glee, although my religion instructs me otherwise, to rejoice in no one's death. And it's the same religion professed by a majority of the country, but in the last decade I've seen how widely those beliefs vary. I might be content if this death stops the two wars and provides more for 9/11 responders--Why didn't they get a share of that huge Red Cross pie?--but I'm not holding my breath?

for your support and kindness. The people on this site are wonderful!! When I got home, my husband was upset and sad, and he was comforted by all of your warm wishes.

Thanks much,
Adigal

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-breitweiser/today-is-not-a-day-of-cel_b_856535.html

She says it so much better than I did.

Peace, to all of you, those who agree and those who disagree, too.

Thank your husband for his service and hold each other in the knowledge that many of us believe this should be a time of somber reflection.

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adigal - real strength is what you have - not the chest pounding, gloating, dancing worship of death that we are seeing.

peace

Perhaps if this had happened 10 years ago there might be reason to celebrate...and many,many lives would have been saved...but
as you said, chances are this will make no difference at all..and might actually incite more violence as a reaction.

Sad that we as a nation cannot seem to understand what a no-win situation this entire bin Laden story was...and still is.

:thumbsup:

but it needed to be said and I'm glad you said it

It seems so simple, if one only looks at why 911 happened. Not WHAT happened. The depth of vision that most people on this planet have seems to be quite shallow. I have a deep sense of personal responsibility for what happened. All Americans do, whether they know it or not. Killing Bin Laden, or even forgiving him, would not change why we were attacked. If I were to post about what transpired in my family when the towers came down, it would probably be an unmatched fight on this forum. We immediately called for forgiveness. We also realized that it was very likely a choreographed act that went well beyond the one man, if you catch my meaning. What needs to happen is personal reflection by each American. As long as we have to subsidize the goods we consume, with war, there will be Osamas in one form or another. The enemy is us. No amount of celebration will change that.

And then there is the subject of celebration. There is room for it, within a context. The end of a specific era. The end of one man. But I find that part rather trivial in comparison.


I might add that to counter anyone who believes that forgiveness is crazy, just think about what we accomplished by doing it the way we did. Trillions of dollars gone. Trillions! Thousands of young men and women gone. A million Iraqis alone, gone. Forgiveness may have not given people a sense of strength or revenge, or whatever, but it would have saved a huge surplus for our future, a million people's lives, and lastly but not least, one hell of carbon footprint. And that is not insignificant. And we wouldn't have incurred yet more wrath from the terrorists in the Middle East.

A beautiful post...
I share your feelings.
We are supposed to be better.

Wishing you and your family peace~

Ecstatic our military has completed a major objective.

Encouraged this is may be the beginning of the end of our war(s) in the Middle East.

Sad so many more lives were lost.

Distressed it has taken almost a decade to accomplish.

Relieved it was our President in charge when this goal was reached.

Pray the extremist network has been dismantled sufficiently to prevent retaliation.

Hope Cheney and McCain will choke on their words that they knew where Bin Laden was years ago.

And eternally Grateful for the military & their families who sacrifice so much to keep us safe.

and you are not alone in your thoughts

Yech.

Buddhist, I agree..and please thank your husband for his service.

husband took his job seriously. My heart goes out to you and please stay strong.

but couldn't express them today, probably because I have no precedent in my own experience. I found this quote today and thought he said it best:


"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
--Martin Luther King, Jr.

Not sorry to see the man gone from this world. As a pacifist, none of this would be my chosen way of dealing with the situation. My main hope is that we can use this to pivot out of these wars and stop being responsible for continued deaths.

You could tell from the videos how much drinking they were doing. This wasn't a serious crowd; it was a group of party animals from the saloons in the area.

New Yorkers in general are more sober in the aftermath of September 11th than other Americans who watched it on television. It was not a spectator event to people who knew people who died that day or lost loved ones. I remember tourists posing in front of the burning rubble with beer cans in their hands. They're not still doing that, but the people who came out to party the other night are not representative of New York.

I personally don't know anyone who thinks the proper response to bin Laden's death was to chant "USA! USA!" while spraying champagne. You do that when a sports team wins a championship; but under the circumstances it shows a lack of seriousness.

The "USA! USA!" festival at Ground Zero was a vulgar insult to those who DID suffer on 9/11. The only way to keep events like 9/11 from happening again is to work for a world in which nobody ever feels, as those who committed that act did, that the world power structure is so hopelessly rigged against them and their ability to express their grievances that the only choice they had was to take that horrible step.

We need to be a different world than that, and we can be.

Please thank your husband for his service.

There are plenty of people the world is better off without - rapists, etc. I am glad to see them gone, but it doesn't make me jubilant. But I can understand people feeling that way.

I am assuming one reason the White House may not release or will delay releasing the photo is Obama doesn't want to encourage unseemly stuff.

I agree. When I read your post - a sigh of relief washed over me.

OBL is dead. Justice served?

Someone else will take his place.

I'm sure you'll eventually get around to forgiving us for our reactions to this. Not everybody can ignore things as well as the two of you can, I hope you'll understand.

Everybody loves us now!

No? Well, how many more do we have to kill before they all love us?

Thanks for your post

And would encourage you do the same for others who choose to react to this emotional event in their own way, even if you do not understand it.

What does Jesus say about "our enemies"?

I'm just saying.

He had a wife, little girl, and baby on the way. I thought of that family yesterday, and how you can't bring back the loved one, but perhaps it brings some peace? Dunno, but certainly a serious moment and nothing to be cheering about.

Thank you for your thoughtful OP, and your husband's service.

Am so glad he is with you. My take was that those who seemed to be cheering were not cheering for the death of known murderer but for the government who we thought had forgotten you and us. I had mixed emotions myself. But in the end it was relief, closure and much sadness that someone would perpetrate such a crime against the innocent that created a need for such a lethal response. No win here..just the closing of a dark period in history.

However,you are quite right in your observation that we seem to be regressing in our maturity, which the birther issue clearly reveals. Most of us do not have the direct connection your family does to Sept 11. We did not witness it first hand. So we have a disconnected response. But internally I felt some joy for the victims families. That maybe now they have some peace to ease their enormous pain in the knowledge their government had not forgotten them.

Blessings

...and if I hear U-S-A, U-S-A one more time, I'll puke.
Hooligans who will never get near anything remotely resembling courage or honor.