Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Those who are victorious in war Should follow the rites of funerals.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:19 AM
Original message
Those who are victorious in war Should follow the rites of funerals.
31: Victory Is Cause for Grief


31

Weapons are ominous tools.
They are abhorred by all creatures.
Anyone who follows the Way shuns them.
In peaceful times, the noble ruler honors the left side.
At war, he honors the right side.

Weapons are ominous tools.
They are not the noble ruler's tools.
He only uses them when he can't avoid it.
Peace and quiet are preferred.
Victory should not be praised.

Those who praise victory relish manslaughter.
Those who relish manslaughter
Cannot reach their goals in the world.

At times of joy, the left side is honored.
At times of grief, the right side is honored.
At battle, the second in command stands to the left,

And the commander in chief to the right.
This means they stand as in funerals.
When many people are killed
They should be mourned and lamented.
Those who are victorious in war
Should follow the rites of funerals.


Lao Tzu


http://taoistical.blogspot.com/2011/02/31-victory-is-cause-for-grief.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. We had Bin Laden buried according to Muslim custom,
after his body was prepared by Muslim men in accordance with Muslim beliefs.

We don't, however, need to give him a funeral.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. you missed the point
of the passage.

basically it says killing is always a cause for mourning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. How was Suddam buried after his hanging?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Not sure, but he was not in US custody. The Iraqis executed him
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. I always thought that sailor and that nurse were wrong to kiss in Times Square on V-J day.
Their praise and unbounded happiness over victory shows that they relished manslaughter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. +1. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. It showed how they relished the end of manslaughter
it was in response to Japan's surrender.

It's confusing, I know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. Very appropriate. Thank you.
Too bad it sails over heads............
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. all may not agree
Edited on Mon May-02-11 11:42 AM by G_j
but Lao Tzu offers worthy food for thought and a moment for introspection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. kick
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gunny1 Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. I get it but it's doesn't seem very Tao
Edited on Mon May-02-11 01:02 PM by Gunny1
All these oughts, oughtnots and beatitudes - don't they just get in the way of being a truly spontaneous person. If you are truely overjoyed this morning then why not get with it? Far better than denying ones true nature.

Of all Lao Tsu wrote this is some of the most Confucian - what stuff!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. translation from Witter Bynner
31

Even the finest arms are an instrument of evil,
A spread of plague,
And the way for a vital man to go is not the way of a soldier.
But in time of war men civilized in peace
Turn from their higher to their lower nature.
Arms are an instrument of evil,
No measure for thoughtful men
Until there fail all other choice
But sad acceptance of it.
Triumph is not beautiful.
He who thinks triumph beautiful
Is one with a will to kill,
And one with a will to kill
Shall never prevail upon the world.
It is a good sign when man's higher nature comes forward,
A bad sign when his lower nature comes forward,
When retainers take charge
And the master stays back
As in the conduct of a funeral.
The death of a multitude is cause for mourning:
Conduct your triumph as a funeral.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gunny1 Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ah Ha! See now, translating Chinese is risky business...
This one is much better - IF you know the basic underlying philosophy. If not this one reads like a bunch of vaguely amorphous mumbo jumbo and the first like concrete language. BUT THE FIRST ONE IS ALL WRONG, and leads one to believe something very different than the "wu wei" (so to speak ;-)

I tell you what, explaining (and even understanding) this stuff is really tricky. How does one employ his mind in order to stop using his mind?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You are heavy Marine san!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC