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It's amazing that a few people here want to make Osama Bin Laden "the good guy"

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:21 PM
Original message
It's amazing that a few people here want to make Osama Bin Laden "the good guy"
Edited on Sun May-08-11 04:23 PM by Taverner
"He wasn't armed!"

"They shot his kids!"

"They didn't kill Bin Laden but his body double!"

"Osama wasn't behind 9/11!"

Jeez - how many logical backflips do you have to go through to fit it into the 'US always bad' bucket??

Let me spell it out for you:

Osama Bin Laden Orchestrated, Planned and most importanly PAID FOR the attacks on 9/11

It wasn't Bush or Cheney. Those two were evil men, but this couldn't have been their plan because IT WORKED!

He stated his intent shortly after our Somalia fiasco (Thanks Poppy Bush :sarcasm:)

And he gave an interview, a manifesto and many tapes and messages to the effect of "Get out of the Mideast and convert to Islam or we will kill you"


Osama Bin Laden was still planning attacks on the US up until the time he was taken out

He was not carrying a gun, but that's rather irrelevant when his bodyguards were

Some reports came out at first saying OBL was given a choice, some reports say that didn't happen. Once again, irrelevant

Osama never had his day in court, but neither did Charles Whitman, the University of Texas shooter

A court case would have just recruited more people into Al Queda

OBL is dead and serving as fish food in the Atlantic Ocean

Lucky fish

Taking out OBL will not recruit more to Al Queda - in fact the folks you see "protesting" his death would never join our side: they are luddites deluded into religious fervor

Bin Laden was not the good guy

He was not framed for 9/11 - in fact he confessed to it on both the videos we know were Bin Laden and of course, on the fakes (yes there were fake Osama vids. I have no idea who made them, but they suspiciously look like the work of amateurs. At the time America was so freaked out that we could have believed anyone was Bin Laden)

Now for the clincher - OBL is dead, and it's time to FUCKING LEAVE THE MIDEAST

They don't want us there, I don't want us there and with OBL gone, there's no reason to stick around

Sure, if we can locate Al Zahwhari we should replicate the 5/1 operation and take him out too

He's not some kindly doctor with a turban, he is a Dangerous Killer, who wants us all dead. He has said so.

You can tell me all day "that's all CIA propaganda that they want you to believe!"

Going down that road will make you afraid of your own shadow, and start seeing poisonous clouds in the sky called Chemtrails, or thinking that Obama, Bush, The Queen of England and many others are a conspiracy of lizard people from outer space

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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well I would certainly hope
that Obama wasn't responsible for 9/11 ;)
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. GAH! Now I gotta put a dollar in the swear jar!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. There is no one here who wants to make bin Laden the good guy. n/t
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm not so sure about that. This is not a broad brush, however
As I would not include Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore in that group

They're just cynical in a way that comes from eight years of Bush Admin lies

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Of course it's a broad brush. n/t
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
52. Not really - I am directing this on a VERY SMALL subset of DUers
Those arguing that he should have had a trial are not a part of this group. Their arguments make sense on a logical level, but we can't 'un-kill' him and see what would happen.

Those who argue that we should have captured him do not love OBL either.

But - those who say "Who are WE to do this???" or "Why should we kill anyone?" either don't understand war or really wish OBL would have succeeded.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #52
148. There is no one here who has expressed sympathy for bin Laden.
I'm sorry, that's simply untrue.

There are posters such as yourself who call ethical questions "sympathy" but that's your misconstruction.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #148
150. If I had all day I'd show them to you
But since 5/1 there have been a few

Granted, pretty much everyone flaming me is NOT in that camp. They think I'm talking about them - I'm not.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #150
167. it's only the 8th. you can run a search for them if they're there.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
50. Well you did say that there are people trying to make him out to
be a good guy. Can you link to anyone who has said that? I have not seen it, but I don't see every comment.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
136. Shucks, come on... give yourself more credit than that...
You painted with a REALLY BIG broad brush.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
225. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Bullshit.
There's a small but vocal crowd here who is falling all over themselves to paint him as some kind of a victim.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Wrong. It's about the legitimacy of the tactics, not Osama's merits as a human being.
The guy was irrelevant by this point anyway. A bastard, but an irrelevant bastard.

And it's certainly not "paint(ing) HIM as some kind of a victim" to be saddened by the murder of his wife and his infant child. Clearly THEY did nothing to deserve to die.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. I personally hoped they'd shove a bazooka up his ass and yell "FIRE IN THE HOLE"
And it's certainly not "paint(ing) HIM as some kind of a victim" to be saddened by the murder of his wife and his infant child. Clearly THEY did nothing to deserve to die.

That's true...point well taken.

My regret...my only regret...is that the "bullet to the chest and head" this motherfucker intercepted didn't even begin to represent a fraction of the suffering he inflicted in his lifetime.

It should have taken days for this motherfucker to die...not minutes or seconds.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
121. please share the information on which you base the statement that OBL was irrelevant
You must be very very well connected to know that for a fact. Or just someone who believes what they want to believe.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. It's interesting that you see no difference
between minding human rights and international law and sympathizing with bin Laden.

Rush would agree with that, I'm sure.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. And there it is, the weak ad hominem guilt by association argument.
Why don't you tell me precisely how you think 'human rights and international law' could have been 'minded' to obtain a more preferable
(to you) outcome?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Baloney. Anyone who has even posted factual accounts here
has been accused of somehow sympathizing with bin Laden. Even tracking documented changes to the official story was sympathizing with bin Laden.

This isn't the response of anyone who is fairly secure in their own position.

lol
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. "This isn't the response of anyone who is fairly secure in their own position."
Exactly.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. So are you apologizing for harrassing me when I was posting changes
to the official story?

If so, I accept. :)
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. No, I'm waiting for your answer to the questions below.
...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I'll take that as a "no". n/t
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. She doesn't HAVE to answer those questions
You're not entitled to play prosecuting attorney here.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Of course she doesn't have to answer the questions. But I don't have to stop asking them.
And I certainly don't have to 'apologize' to her for god-knows-what. If she (or you) have such a giant problem with this operation, I think it's legitimate to ask, again, what specific laws, human and/or civil rights were violated, and how should the thing have been handled differently?

Don't you think that's a reasonable set of questions? :shrug:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. Not the way you are using them.
You're implying that it's simple when it isn't.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Okay, then, people can either answer my wildly byzantine, complicated questions
or they can choose not to.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
224. Didn't you know?
Any questioning or criticism whatsoever of our government is unpatriotic, and means you side with terrorists.

After all, you are either with us or against us!

:sarcasm:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Absolutely no one.
Raising questions about his execution is not the same thing as admiring the guy. That's just as lame as the Bushie claim that people who opposed the Iraq War were "pro-Saddam".

None of us do and you guys know it.

Stop the slander already.

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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
30.  He was "executed" just as legally as Isoroku Yamamoto on April 18, 1943,
Ordered by personally by FDR.

Operation Vengeance

http://www.militaryhistory.org/2009/07/operation-vengeance/

" President Franklin D. Roosevelt was personally notified of this intelligence and asked for permission to kill Yamamoto. Roosevelt gave his approval, and Admiral Nimitz authorized the mission on April 17th."


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. And that execution order came from one of our greatest Democratic presidents, FDR.
And the order to execute OBL came from Barack Obama who will go down in history as another of our great Democratic presidents.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
89.  And if some democrates hold it against Obama
will they also hold it against FDR?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #56
168. wrong then, wrong now.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #168
174. It was wrong to...
shoot Yamamoto's plane down?

Bullshit.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #168
200. Wrong to shoot down Yamamoto?
Silly, silly.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
88. I must have missed the part where Congress formally declared war on Osama or his organization. (NT)
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #88
197. You need to keep up--it was passed on September 14, 2001.
Edited on Mon May-09-11 10:45 AM by msanthrope
Here's the Joint Resolution--

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.J.RES.64:

Of course--Bin Laden had already declared war on us.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
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Call Me Wesley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
44. +1000
OP might just have been made from a different angle ...

:hi:
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
115. Ayup
Sorta reminds me of tilting at windmills or something like that. Hello you! :hug: to both you and Heidi!
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
129. someone here actually posted about "his gentle smiling face" oh yes they fucking did.
Don't even dare say "some" people aren't trying to make that fuck a sympathetic figure. Because we've seen it.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #129
146. That was me and it was pure, unadulterated sarcasm which should have been quite obvious in context.
The poster I responded to (who is in this thread) and I were kidding around about the mentality of the purists.

I only wiah the fucker had had to decide how he was going to die like the jumpers from the WTC.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #129
147. Maybe you need to go back and "see" again
before you assert anything so vile about anyone in this community.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #129
169. the powerful smell of mendacity
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #129
243. you are seriously slow to believe that was anything BUT sarcasm
but hey, if your agenda is to lash out at those who frustrate your senses, exaggerate till your hearts content.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not at all. I'm just not giving the military a pass
Edited on Sun May-08-11 04:28 PM by ixion
and I've ALWAYS been opposed to using the military to track criminals. That's a law enforcement issue, not a military one. And it was treated as such until Chimpy came along, so just because there's a different dude in the WH doesn't mean my opinion on the matter has changed.
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Oasis_ Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. What??
So you would have sent the FBI over to his compound in their shades and suits to knock on the front door to serve the warrant? "Mr. bin Laden, we're here to peacefully arrest you and turn you over to the authorities. Please dutifully comply"

That's utter nonsense.

Oasis
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
117. It's not nonsense. It's the way it was handled for decades before George Bush
That was one of the core tenants of the Bush Doctrine. Nice try, though.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #117
152. tenants = tenets
LOL!
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #152
172. We're talking about a serious topic here
And while I can appreciate corrections, if you're only interested in snark, go to the DU Lounge.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #172
173. One should know the difference between...
Edited on Mon May-09-11 06:36 AM by SDuderstadt
tenants and tenets if one wants to be taken seriously.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #173
180. One does. And again, do you want to discuss the topic?
Edited on Mon May-09-11 07:20 AM by ixion
Otherwise, save it.

It was simple mistake. I don't spend my day thinking only about posting on DU, and a simple mistake does not detract from my premise. Your apparent disdain for discussing the topic at hand, however, does nothing for your credibility.

One of the most common tactics of political hacks is to attack the messenger and ignore the message. This is precisely what you are doing.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #180
181. Do you wish to be...
taken seriously?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #181
182. Do you?
Edited on Mon May-09-11 07:21 AM by ixion
Apparently not. This is the last response I'll give to something other than discussion of the topic.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #182
184. Great...
learn the difference between "tenant" and "tenet" and it will aid the discussion immeasurably.

That is, if that is your actual aim.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #184
226. LOL...
Edited on Mon May-09-11 12:54 PM by ixion
Get over it, and yourself. Riddle me this, Grammarian: Have you EVER made grammatical, semantic or punctual mistake in your life? We both know the answer is YES.

I'm well aware of the difference. You need to stop obsessing. Good day.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #226
236. It's neither a...
grammatical, semantic or punctual (sic...you mean punctuation) error. It's not knowing the difference between "tenants" and "tenants". Of course, if you don't care about being taken seriously, it probably doesn't matter.

I'd be glad to explain the difference between "tenant" and "tenet", ad well as "punctual" and "punctuation" if it would help.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #236
237. As I said
You really need to get over yourself. Since you continue to dwell on topics long since resolved, I can see that you're more concerned with obfuscation and snark, which means you aren't interested in a serious conversation.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #237
239. Or, you could simply admit...
you didn't know the difference between "tenant" and "tenet", which I keep in my mind when evaluating your posts.

I don't expect serious debate from you anytime soon.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #173
241. Like calling people "dude"?
"f one wants to be taken seriously..."

Like calling people "dude"?

It would appear we often hold others to higher standards than we hold ourselves. :shrug:

(insert righteous rationalization here....)
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Let me spell it out for you
Unrec
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franzia99 Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yah, the guy killed thousands. I'm not happy to see anyone die, but I'm glad he can't kill again.
No Seals should've had to risk getting shot in order to avoid killing bin laden. I haven't seen any evidence so far to suggest that bin laden was surrendering willingly.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
franzia99 Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. what laws were violated and how?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
118. Ask yourself this: If the Pakistani military raided a home on US soil and killed someone
they claimed was a 'terrorist' do you HONESTLY thing the US would be okay with that? Really?
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. Well
the Pakistani government also considers him a terrorist, as does the entire international community.

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. It matters not. If the roles were reversed
there would be hell to pay. Period. Pakistan would be lucky to still exist at the end of it.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #123
216. It does too matter...
You are comparing apples and oranges.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #216
227. Not at all..
The military of one sovereign nation conducts a raid on the soil of another sovereign nation.

That is a very direct and distinct and apt comparison. Nice try at obfuscation though. :eyes:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #227
228. Bullshit
Pakistan was in partnership with the US, or at least was supposed to have been, and in agreement that OBL was a very wanted terrorist. And if Pakistan had a problem with this, we would have heard all about it by now. The US may have some control over our own media, but not that of the world.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #228
234. No, it's not BS...
Edited on Mon May-09-11 02:12 PM by ixion
and since Pakistan 'warned' the US on the raid, it sounds like there wasn't much notice, if any.

And your post actually proves my point. Given this 'partnership', the US shouldn't mind at all if the Pakistani military showed up and raided a house on US soil without notice, correct?

You know it's not correct. You know the US would through an empire-sized tantrum if that occurred. I can tell you this: The response would be one helluva lot more than a 'warning'.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #123
246. Probably
I was just pointing out that it wasn't a citizen of Pakistan that Pakistan wanted to protect.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #118
213. If it was someone the whole world considered a terrorist...
They wouldn't have needed to ask... the US would have done it alone.

If OBL had been deemed a terrorist by the USA ONLY and no other countries had deemded him such, then your argument might have some teeth. As it stands now, you are comparing apples and oranges.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. (facepalm)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I'd switch to something less stinging.
The other day you were face palming over the witnesses to the shooting and now our government is seeking to question those people.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
119. Deleted message
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
19.  unrec
Edited on Sun May-08-11 04:54 PM by quinnox
not one person that I've read here has been saying nor implying Osama was a "good guy".

Thats nice you have your mind all made up and its all clearly settled to you on all your other numerous points you brought up, but damn, other people have different viewpoints on some of those issues, excuse them for not agreeing with you 100%!

*Gasp* You might even be wrong on some of them!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
101. Deleted message
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think it is less that, and more "Obama Bad".
It does not matter what he does. There is a small group that will see whatever outcome occurs as "Obama Bad".

The topic moves form week to week. I call it the outrage machine. Each week it flogs a new "Obama Bad" meme, then it moves on.

The outrage machine has struggled this week, because almost every American wanted OBL dead starting on 9/12/01.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. It certainly makes a Nader Presidency that much more unlikely.
That may be the core of it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. Deleted message
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. It Is Not Even 'Obama Bad', Sir
It is 'United States bad', and in particular, 'use of force by United States bad'....
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Now why on Earth would anyone question the use of force by the United States?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. In this particular case? Honestly?
I have no fucking clue. The only question I have is why it took almost 10 years.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. No more calls, we have a winner.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
78. When Someone Always Gets the Same Answer, Ma'am
It raises a question as to whether it is questioning that is being engaged in, or the mere re-statement of an a priori position whenever opportunity is afforded.

This was a proper use of force by the United States; you are perfectly well aware that is not always my conclusion.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
218. You're right and right, Your Honor.
I wasn't asking a real question and I am aware that your conclusions are well considered, even when I disagree with them.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. With the decision made by who? Oh yea ... Obama.
Obama, bad. Its an endless meme here and to a larger degree on the far right.

If anyone deserved the US to use some force, it was OBL. Just sad it took this long.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
82. The Criticisms Would Be the Same, If Ordered By Bush
And mostly from the same people.

Support for the action would also be seen, had it been done by Bush, and also mostly from the same people.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #82
110. If Bush killed OBL back in 2003, or Clinton in 98, I'd have been fine with that.
But when I think back to when Clinton tried to kill OBL, I don't recall much outcry from the left. The right screamed "No war for Monica".

OBL was involved in numerous attacks in the 90s, 9/11, and attacks after.

He's been getting help to hide for years.

About time we killed him.



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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. A trial would have put a lot of that stuff to rest. I guess now we'll never know if the gummit was
telling the truth.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
58. OR It could have been a pulpit for Osama
Just like Zacharias Moussoui's trial

In fact, there were some who felt we shouldn't have even arrested this "poor maligned pious man" (exact words on DU)

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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
127. A pulpit? Come on. n/t
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #127
132. Your homework: Read about the Zacharias Moussoui trial



That would be that guy ^
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #132
186. ...
Edited on Mon May-09-11 07:41 AM by Shagbark Hickory
Who says the trials have to be televised?

Who says the defendant will be allowed to speak off topic as long as they wish?
You can't even do that in traffic court.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #132
247. Moussaoui trial exposed US government 'incompetence' at best.
"Complicity," more like it.

FBI's Cowleen Rowley was TIME's person of the year because she wanted to look in the hijackerwannabe's laptop before 9-11. Her bosses in Washington told her to shut up.

Know your BFEE: The Stench of Moussaoui Permeates the Octopus
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
178. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #178
185. posted in wrong location, sd
Edited on Mon May-09-11 07:40 AM by Shagbark Hickory
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #178
188. thank you, thank you, thank you! nt
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm curious.
Why do you think bin Laden orchestrated 911?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden

He wasn't wanted for 911.

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-taliban-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US

He denies he did it.

Dick Cheney says bin Laden didn't do it.

So you must have compelling evidence that he DID do it.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Well, there you have it.
Not only was he a sweet little old man in his jammies, but he was innocent. Case closed!
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. And there it is.
your compelling evidence to the contrary.
Links?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. You mean aside from the several times he took credit for the attacks?
Give me a fucking break. It's not incumbent upon me to disprove whatever whack-a-doo crap you're peddling.

Here's a question; if he didn't do it, Who did? Specifically.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. I know that you, like me, believe in rule of law and evidentiary procedures.
Lemme see here. Nope. You use disparaging rhetoric/ad hominem like "Whack-a-doo". You're no longer a person of interest.

(Betcha ya didn't check out those links. Like the one where Dick Cheney says bin Laden didn't do it.)

Cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing to waste on the critically-thinking disadvantaged.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Okay, so Osama taking credit for the attacks doesn't actually count.
Guess you're not going to answer as to who you actually think DID order the attacks, then.

Or did the attacks not happen at all? :shrug:
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. Wow!!
Do you know what an investigation is? It's a gathering of evidence to determine WHO did something, in this case WTC takedown. So, if we have evidence that OBL did it, this conversation would be unnecessary. No investigation -- no evidence.

So YOU are privy to evidence CONTRARY to what the Vice President at the time said. Listen to that link again. This is where the healing begins.

Also, it would seem that the logic of a jihadist denying responsibility for something that was the PR moment of the century doesn't make you wonder a little.

You're evangelical in your zeal. It's ok. Most of America is, as well. We all are not used to questioning authority and demanding substantive answers.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #71
245. You do know that a confession is pretty much the end of any criminal investigation, right?
I mean, I know you know that, since you're such a champion of the rule of law and all.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
85. Oops!
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #85
93. That's the most fucking idiotic thing I've EVER wasted 3 minutes of my life on.
Edited on Sun May-08-11 06:08 PM by Warren DeMontague
It's a radio interview, and the alleged "statement" from Cheney there is in the context of him talking THE ENTIRE REST OF THE TIME about Iraq and Saddam Hussein, he obviously misspoke. Those chuckleheads spent 8 years trying to conflate Saddam and Osama, and it shows.

Give me a fucking break.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
133. are you by chance a truther?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #133
142. Gee, ya think?

I just don't know how the rest of us easily led, mindless sheeple can continue to ignore such clear and convincing evidence.

Sort of like UFOs.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #85
230. You believe The Dick? Really?
OMFG... just OMFG...
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onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #59
160. Osama did confess to doing it...
But, he did it on the short form, not to mention...I wasn't wearing my tin foil hat, yet...until we see the long form version, his confession is no good.

:tinfoilhat:
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
80. That's what I can't understand
OBL, the real one, not the fake one, admitted it several times. He claimed credit for it.

Mohammed Atta was a member of Al Queda.

Yet so many are willing to think this was some kind of CIA inside job involving lizard people and a secret Antarctic Base named "New Swabia"
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #80
94. You should check out dude's "evidence".
It's a fucking riot.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. I'm sick of reading all the truther shit
Just because the FBI didn't issue a warrant for 9/11 does not mean he wasn't responsible

My Uber-Conservative Dad used to call them the "Blame America First" Party. I realize that is a supreme overreaction lingering from Vietnam, but it makes one think: there are those who think everything the US Government does is either evil, or enabling evil

I am no flag waver - I don't even own a flag!

And I was against both Iraq AND Afghanistan. And if we invade Iran or Pakistan I would still be against it.

But I have nothing wrong with going "Munich" on the bastards who attacked us

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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #94
108. Say, cowboy!
I've provided a couple of links that you and your "buddy" have attempted to discredit.

How's about a little quid pro quo? Give me ONE authentic bin Laden confession video.

Wouldn't that be fair?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #108
141. You wonder why people don't take you "Troofers" more seriously?
I don't need to "attempt to discredit" your "evidence".. it discredits it-fucking-SELF. Half your fucking CASE, in this thread, is "Cheney said so". I mean, how fucking bright do you need to be to be able to recognize that the context of that quote was him talking about the Iraq invasion and Saddam Hussein? It's like if Obama was giving interviews all the time, saying "I wasn't born in Kenya, I was born in Hawaii" ... "I wasn't born in Kenya, I was born in Hawaii" ... and then, once, he fucked up and said "I wasn't born in Hawaii, I was born in Kenya", and all of a sudden there'd be a million pinheads on youtube screaming SEE HE SAID HE WAS BORN IN KENYA HOLY FUCK!@!!!!111111


...:eyes:

Osama was responsible for 9-11. Al Qaeda was responsible for 9-11. If there was no confession, if they hadn't admitted it, they would still be responsible. They did it.

Oh, I'm sorry, you asked for links. Now, I realize that the bbc, cbc, and msnbc don't carry the hard-hitting journalistic weight of, say, Alex Jones, but they'll have to do for now:


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6363306/



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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #49
135. Personally, I blame whoever was able to suspend the laws of
Edited on Sun May-08-11 10:06 PM by truedelphi
Physics such that not one but two New York Skyscrapers fell inside their own footprints in under fourteen seconds.

Something that just cannot happen according to any "pancake" theory of building collapse.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #135
176. Bullshit n/t
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #176
210. So I guess you had the physics answer, and scored the
100 K in dollars that was there for anyone capable of offering an explanation?

Somehow BS doesn't cut it.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #49
190. AFAIK...
Edited on Mon May-09-11 08:16 AM by wildbilln864
and I venture to predict all you can cite is him allegedly taking credit for it once. Don't make shit up.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #190
211. The guy in the video who took the credit for it
Had a different physical build, a different complexion, and stubby fingers, plus he wrote with the other hand than the one the real Usama used for writing.

Oh, and the Tonkin incident that led us to Vietnam never happened either. But none the less, over 55K Americans died, and some six million Vietnamese lost their homes, were wounded or killed. Just in case you ever wanna look back at the history of the lies that this nation's leaders has told We The Sheeple.

One of the few things we can count on our leaders for is The Big Lie that leads us to war and pain and financial distress. And last but not least, loss of life on a massive scale.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
87. Em, no, he wasn't innocent. But he wasn't wanted for 9/11
Edited on Sun May-08-11 06:00 PM by sabrina 1
He WAS wanted for the Embassy Bombings.

FBI says, it has “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”

By Ed Haas

06/18/06 "Muckraker Report " - June 6, 2006 – This past weekend, a thought provoking e-mail circulated through Internet news groups, and was sent to the Muckraker Report by Mr. Paul V. Sheridan (Winner of the 2005 Civil Justice Foundation Award), bringing attention to the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorist web page for Usama Bin Laden.<1> In the e-mail, the question is asked, “Why doesn’t Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster make any direct connection with the events of September 11, 2001?” The FBI says on its Bin Laden web page that Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998 bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. According to the FBI, these attacks killed over 200 people. The FBI concludes its reason for “wanting” Bin Laden by saying, “In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorists attacks throughout the world.”

On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

It shouldn’t take long before the full meaning of these FBI statements start to prick your brain and raise your blood pressure. If you think the way I think, in quick order you will be wrestling with a barrage of very powerful questions that must be answered. First and foremost, if the U.S. government does not have enough hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11, how is it possible that it had enough evidence to invade Afghanistan to “smoke him out of his cave?” The federal government claims to have invaded Afghanistan to “root out” Bin Laden and the Taliban. Through the talking heads in the mainstream media, the Bush Administration told the American people that Usama Bin Laden was Public Enemy Number One and responsible for the deaths of nearly 3000 people on September 11, 2001. Yet nearly five years later, the FBI says that it has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.


Of course this doesn't change the fact that he was wanted on the FBI's ten most wanted list. But details ARE important.

What was important about this was that the Bush administration invaded Afghanistan because they claimed, Bin Laden was responsible for 3,000 deaths.

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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. Well, There ya go!!
binLaden and Dick Cheney both say he was innocnet! What more reliable sources do we need to prove it?........Give me a break! Dick Cheney????? Really???
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
83. Wait! What?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
98. Who? The 14 year old with the tin foil headgear who did the video and audio cut and paste job?
Wow. Compelling shit you've got, there. :crazy:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #83
113. So...
Edited on Sun May-08-11 07:24 PM by polmaven
if it fits your argument, you either cannot distinguish that as being an obviously doctored audio, so you can believe DICK CHENEY, of all people, that bin Laden was not involved. .... Again....Dick Cheney is your reliable source???? Seriously???? Wow!
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. And GWB never claimed to have lost interest in OBL either, eh?
No evidence. No points.

See, I'm looking for more reliable sources from people like you. Naysayers. Don't need no stinking investigation. Nah. He's guilty, I tell you!
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. Oh, Good God!
You really, really do believe that Dick Cheney should be the source to listen to. There's no point at all in trying to discuss this any further with someone with that frame of mind. Nite nite......!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #116
124. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #124
144. The Illumnati New World Order Bildgerburger Bohemian Grove Space Lizards.
And we bombed the moon, too! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #116
143. If you listen to the entire "piece" (And I mean it, it really is a piece.) it's fairly obvious
that the Cheney quote is genuine (although once he says it the troofer youtube audio wizard then goes on to repeat it several times, in case we may have missed it) ... but the context is an Tony Snow radio interview with Cheney about the IRAQ invasion, and it's clear Cheney is talking all throughout about Saddam, not Osama. Specifically, he's saying "we never claimed Saddam was behind 9-11" but at least once, he mistakenly says Osama instead of Saddam.

HOLY SHIT THAT IS SOME SERIOUS FUCKING EVIDENCE, DUDE! :crazy:

It's ridiculous. In fact, elsewhere in the interview he's talking about the intelligence that Al Qaeda met with Saddam, and how "apparently it was not good intelligence". And unless the Troofers now are saying OBL didn't have any connection to Al Qaeda, it would make no sense for Cheney to give an interview saying about 9-11 "we thought Saddam had connections to Al Qaeda, but by the way Al Qaeda didn't do 9-11"

The guy misspoke, probably because, like I said elsewhere, that administration spent so much time TRYING to conflate Saddam and Osama, that it's no wonder he'd get a brain fart around it occasionally.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #143
235. But even if he had
said "Osama bin Laden is absolutely not responsible for 9/11"....why would we believe anything that comes out of his mouth????
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
62. Um, the Bin Laden tapes?
And not the one with the fake Osama either

Go rewatch those vids. They're all over YouTube

The reason they use the Cole and embassy bombings is that we actually have proof positive on those

9/11, well a confession does not a guilty man make, at least in a court of law

Did you know Adolf Hitler claimed he never killed a single Jew?

Did you know Dr Mengele said he was trying to "help" the Jews?

Josef Stalin, too, said he wanted to help the Jews, right after mowing a bunch of them down with the KGB.



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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #62
156. Bin Laden tapes
I went to Disney World and heard and saw Abraham Lincoln talk in person. Honest Abe!
I saw this guy called Darth Vader wage war in a galaxy far far away. It was all on tape, so it must be true.
I was watching the Wild, Wild West the other day and there was US Grant, appearing just like he does on the $50 dollar bill. It was all on tape, so it must have been the real US Grant, right?
I also saw this video of a guy speaking a foreign language I didn't understand, and his words were toned down so low that I could barely even make out that they were words. But the kind interpreter told me everything that he was saying, and interpreters are never wrong, right?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #156
248. Tell me, are we all being brainwashed by lizard men through chemtrails?
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
191. What did you eat for breakfast this morning?
A truther :rofl:
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's amazing that a few people here claim to have "principles"
When you hold a principle, you look to make applications. When you don't really hold to a principle, you look for exceptions.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
63. There is a huge difference between those who wished we followed the rule of law....
And those who felt Bin Laden was innocent of all charges and was framed

You know I'm not talking about you, so stop trying to make it about that
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. There's a vast difference between disagreement on tactics and calling bin Laden a good guy.
It's not subtle. BTW, your first three quotes? None have the inherent message that bin Laden was an innocent. All do point to reasons that some have misgivings about the way this operation went down.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. Many DUers doth protest a lot...... must must must drown out that nagging little voice.... (nt)
Edited on Sun May-08-11 05:38 PM by Nye Bevan
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. No...NO DU'ers have any hidden loyalties.
And the actual Nye Bevan, a left-wing Welsh socialist, would never tolerate that kind of neo-McCarthyite talk.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. Anyone who calls Israel "zionist" or calls Palestine "terrorists" has an agenda
Thank dog for the seperate I/P forum
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
43. Guy was a bastard
glad he's dead.

Does that mean I am required to believe everything the government says? No, and I don't. Stop with the all or nothing bullshit, because it isn't reality.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
67. And you shouldn't
I find it interesting that so many here think I'm am talking about them, even though I indicated it was a very small subset

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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #67
221. The tone around here lately
is that if you even dare to question the methods used, or heaven forbid the story of the "kill", you are anti-Obama and support OBL. It's just the same among those who are pro-Libyan revolution - if you are even slightly critical, you love Qaddafi, and are all for tyranny, terrorists, or what have you.

It's the same old "all or nothing" "with us or against us" mentality that was so widely criticized when Bush was in office, but apparently is now in vogue since Obama is president. If you haven't noticed, you haven't been paying attention. Questioning our government is not only our right, it is our responsibility as American citizens, and attempts to intimidate people into silence by shaming them is as un-American as it gets.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
51. Are threads like this going to keep appearing until everyone who didn't shout "USA! USA!" recants?
It sounds like you're getting in touch with your inner Torquemada here. Why are you so fixated with silencing ANY questions and any discussion about what happened?

What harm does it do for there to be some DU'ers who AREN'T in mindless lockstep about this? Are contrary opinions really that threatening to you?

And where do you get off implying that people are sympathetic to Bin Laden when you KNOW that nobody here is?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Hell, some people are simply ecstatic that they can promote 9-11 "truth" outside the 9-11 dungeon.
Yippeee!!!! :party:
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. Ah yes...I worry the truthers will be a thorn in our side like the LaRouche crowd
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. I'm not a "truther" so don't aim that at me, Warren.
This thread is ugly and pointless.

OBL is dead. That ought to be enough.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. And I never did
Once again, people are thinking I attacked them personally when in fact I was speaking about a small number of DUers who think OBL was framed

Those folks are what you and I would call Truthers

Those who think we should have brought him to trial, I am not calling YOU out. I disagree, but you are no truther

Those who think we should stop gravedancing, I am not calling you out either.

But specifically that group that thinks Bin Laden had nothing to do with it, and that he was framed

The problem is everyone here thinks I am talking about them - which seems to be a bit self-centered to me
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #68
96. Not aimed at you.
There are a few who have showed up, though, can't deny that.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. Funny how those who consider themselves able to grasp nuances...
...think I'm referring to them - when I am decidedly not.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Why did you even need to start this thread?
Even if there were a tiny number of people who did, for some reason, feel sorry for OBL...so what? Why is it even worth the time to bait them?

The guy's still dead. Can't you just leave it at that?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Crazy me, calling a spade a spade
I guess next time I will just sing Kum Ba Ya...

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #66
77. Let me add I am glad he's dead. Really glad.
IN fact, if I could I'd piss on his grave, just like I'd piss on Ronald Reagan's, Nathan Bedford Forrest's, Robert E Lee's, George Lincoln Rockwell's or the Ayatollah Khomeni's.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. reported for "retarded"
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Changed it. I apologize for the offensive word.
I should know better, Odin.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
99. Thanks!
:hi:
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. Then find another thread
May I recommend my thread about harpsichords?
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. What other thread?
Almost every thread on DU is about this crap....exxageration, yes, but I just wanted my views known for posterity. I'm never posting on this topic again...enough is enough.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. check out the lounge then
Trust me, I really really REALLY want to find someone who's played a real harpsichord
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. Yeah, but it's harder to call you on your crap from the lounge.
I knew a girl who played harpsichord. She was hot as hell. She also played piano and clarinet. I have a hard time playing happy birthday on the guitar.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. Well maybe you should stop trying to attack me personally and actually read for a change
Oh wait - that would involve using your brain.

Sorry about that - we need to be nice to those who don't have one...
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. Hey, I just think your OPINION on this topic is an exaggeration and dumb.
Edited on Sun May-08-11 06:20 PM by Evoman
I happen to think you are a decent writer and fairly deep thinker. But if you want to tell me I don't have a brain, then feel free. I read my post again and I didn't read anything as insulting as that in my post, although I may have overdone it with the "full of shit".
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
72. Some people have forgotten that millitary targets don't get trials.
I have have just as much sympathy for Osama's "rights" as someone in WW2 worrying about the rights of a Nazi army officer getting bombed.
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jp11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
84. I like how you associate disagreeing with those who seem pleased as punch as meaning he was 'good'.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Sigh...does anyone even read my posts?
It's like they see something that jolts their frame of mind, and all they know how to do is ASSUME I'm talking about them and go on the offensive

There is a reason most intelligence tests favor reading comprehension
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
92. What may be more to the point
Edited on Sun May-08-11 06:06 PM by dipsydoodle
given that there are nearly 170,000 registered users on DU , and that a minimal number having anything to say one way or the other on this subject , is that most of us really don't give a shit whether he's dead or alive.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #92
192. 170,000 accounts created...in any given day about 5000 unique users
post on DU..

FYI- the Ask the Admin's forum is your friend
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #192
219. I'd said
"on this subject" to which about 1% of the 5000 you mentioned have responded either in agreement or disagreement. Hence its importance. :sarcasm:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
95. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #95
105. ...
:spray: :rofl:
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
104. It's amazing that you would so completely mischaracterize what people here say.
Luckily, anyone who's interested can go read for themselves.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
106. Amazing how the apologists have kept this at zero recs.
:shrug:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
107. great example
Edited on Sun May-08-11 06:35 PM by G_j
of intellectual dishonesty

:thumbsdown:

show us where anyone stated OBL was a good guy....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
109. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
111. ...
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Jack Sprat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
112. I know what they want.
They want me to bring him back to life from the ocean depths and I'm just not going to do it this time. I did this with Vlad in the 15th century and it went all wrong. No, I won't do it. Usama's dead and that's it. I refuse to bring him back.
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nxt1 Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
122. Nobody here is making bin Laden "the good guy"
End of story no debate about that.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
125. Recced. nt
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Terra Alta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
126. No one wants to make OBL a good guy.
He was obviously the one behind 9/11. Although I think Dumbya, Cheney, etc. could have done a lot more to prevent it.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
128. That's nothing.
Check this out.

"Osama bin Laden was taken out by a rival gang of terrorists"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=601757&mesg_id=601757
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Drew Richards Donating Member (507 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
130. "Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent."
"Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent."
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
131. The tinfoil has been staggering
I expect some for every big event that happens but it's been way over the top the last few days.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. It's like MIHOP/LIHOP all over again.

It's amazing to me that there are people able to function day to day when they are so disconnected from reality.

The deliberate mental disconnect from reality is indeed staggering.

I bet they still see Lee Harvey Oswald as a poor innocent schmuck too. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. I know - I used to think JFK was killed by the CIA
But evidence shows that that fucker was just crazy.

Jim Garrison was not the logical Kevin Costner from the movie

He was more PT Barnum than anything

He was really trying hard to be a Commie - sort of like Jihad Jane as of late was for Islam
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. Sadly all it takes sometimes to take down a few good men and the hopes of a generation
Is a few random nut jobs. A vast complex conspiracy is not necessary.

And vast, complex conspiracies are far beyond what I've ever witnessed of their competence in the first place.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
139. Channeling OMC today??? nt
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #139
145. ROFL... meeeemoriessssssss
:rofl:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #139
153. HA!
One of the best days here was seeing that worthless fucker get shit canned.
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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
140. Good Guys and Bad Guys - A Cartoonish View
I think Osama bin Laden was a criminal who should have been put on trial. That does not make him a "good guy" by any stretch of the imagination.

The shoot-to-kill order interferes with Americans' right to know about events that greatly impact our lives. Now that Osama's dead we'll never hear any defense he might have mounted to the charges against him.

Case in point: We went into Iraq because the Bush administration claimed that Saddam Hussein was about to provide nuclear weapons to Al Qaeda. It was a lie, one that Hans Blix disputed, but we were blackmailed into going along with the Bush administration. I would have liked a specific denial from the mouth of bin Laden himself, along with whatever additional details he'd choose to provide.

Just from a historical viewpoint it's better to get everyone on the record . . . including people whom subsequent generations will judge harshly. The argument against putting Osama on trial because of the weakness of our justice system is largely rhetorical. If we can't convict bin Laden of capital crimes, we shouldn't be executing him without a trial either.

It's not about bin Laden at all, it's about us . . . who we are as a people, and the sort of legacy we will leave behind. Frankly it looks like Osama provoked such fear even in our boldest warriors that they had to kill him on sight. It doesn't look good, and I believe we will be remembered as chicken shits.
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #140
151. +1. Exactly.
It is about us. Our national soul.

It's not about whether Osama was a "good guy" or a "bad guy". It's about what we do and who we are in response.

He killed 3,000 people. Does that mean we become torturers and executioners because when someone is really, really bad all bets are off?

Arguing that we should be consistent in our national values (habeas corpus, right to trial, etc.) does not equal becoming a bin Laden cheerleader and implying that it does is a really despicable rhetorical move.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #140
155. Thanks. If Nazi war criminals could be tried, so could OBL.
Terrible crimes were committed on 9/11 and killing the purported mastermind was not "justice" as Pres. Obama stated. It was vengeance and satisfied nothing except pure blood lust.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #155
157. And if Yamamoto could be killed
so could OBL.
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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #157
164. Novel Theories
The equivalence between Osama and Yamamoto relies on the novel legal theory that Osama by himself could declare war on the United States. You can make an argument that a fatwa is a declaration of war, but that doesn't make it so.

There's no doubt that the Empire of Japan was at war with the United States. It was a declared war, one that the United States responded to by declaring war in return. This rules out any equivalence between Yamamoto and Osama.

In the final analysis, do legalities matter when dealing with the likes of Osama? As a matter of fact, they do. And concern for legality, sometimes dismissed as "quaint" (by Alberto Gonzalez) or as "hand wringing" by others, is the basis of civilization. Otherwise it's devil take the hindmost, and we are indeed hearing lots of calls for that.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #164
204. Not only that, but those straw men and red herrings can be mighty dangerous
when they're flying top speed down that slippery slope.

I think civilization and the rule of law will survive this one, personally.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #140
158. The issue here is if the intel would have been wrong, it could have
Edited on Mon May-09-11 01:43 AM by Rex
started a war. We had the chance to kill one of America's 'evil doers' that parents scare children with at night in fairy tails so they will drink their milk and eat their vegetables.

IMO.

OBL is strapped up to a car battery in Syria wishing he was dead right about now.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #158
159. Screw that. When I want to scare my children into drinking their milk & eating their vegetables
this is what I threaten them with.



"If you don't behave, the cryptkeeper will eat your souls, children!!!"



Actually, no, I don't do that. That would be really fucked up.

And you can't scare kids into eating vegetables or drinking milk, anyway. You must not be a parent.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #159
161. I'm not.
I'd take Ann over OBL any day and you would too! That is like comparing a mass murderer to the guy that plays one on tv. Not quite the same.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #161
162. She LOOKS more frightening.
I mean, she does.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #162
163. True, OBL didn't look scary at all...kinda bleh.
She...looks...possesed by the devil.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #140
215. Recommmend 1000x --
"It's not about bin Laden at all, it's about us . . .'

:applause:
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
149. It's more than a few
And they're wrong. K&R.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #149
154. LOL
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
165. Yep. The "librul left" loves Osama. I heard about it on Fox. nt
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JetJaguar Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
166. A little fun with Your profile comment.
"DU history can be viewed as a slowly
dawning awareness that we are members of
a larger group. Initially our loyalties
were to ourselves and our immediate
friends, next, to bands of wandering
news-gatherers, then to cliques, small
sentiments, silly-states, notions. We
have broadened the circle of those we
love. We have now organized what is
modestly described as "A Great Place"
on the World Wide Web, which include
groups of people from divergent ethnic
and cultural backgrounds working in some sense
together — surely a humanizing and
character building experience. If we are
to survive, our loyalties must be
broadened further, to include the whole
DU community, even the ignorant.
Many of those who run their mouths
will find this idea unpleasant. They
will fear the loss of power. We will
hear much about treason and disloyalty.
Good spellers will have to share
their ideas with poor ones. But the
choice, as H. G. Wells once said in a
different context, is clearly the
universe or nothing."

--Not Carl Sagan


DU as a whole offsets and rectifies the small

population of posters you refer to if they

exist at all.

Don't worry so much.

Just My two cents.





Original comment quote:


"Human history can be viewed as a slowly
dawning awareness that we are members of
a larger group. Initially our loyalties
were to ourselves and our immediate
family, next, to bands of wandering
hunter-gatherers, then to tribes, small
settlements, city-states, nations. We
have broadened the circle of those we
love. We have now organized what are
modestly described as super-powers,
which include groups of people from
divergent ethnic and cultural
backgrounds working in some sense
together — surely a humanizing and
character building experience. If we are
to survive, our loyalties must be
broadened further, to include the whole
human community, the entire planet
Earth. Many of those who run the nations
will find this idea unpleasant. They
will fear the loss of power. We will
hear much about treason and disloyalty.
Rich nation-states will have to share
their wealth with poor ones. But the
choice, as H. G. Wells once said in a
different context, is clearly the
universe or nothing."

--Carl Sagan



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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
170. Respect for the rule of law = coddling crimnals
Let's keep the wingnut talking points coming, shall we?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #170
201. +1
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #170
217. +1
We old-schoolers just suck. :eyes:
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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
171. Somebody please put this thread out of its misery.
Thanks.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #171
177. I tried by appealing to the mods that it was an attack on people and not a discussion of issues.
I guess they did not agree.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #177
179. It isn't even an attack on a real subset of DU
It is an attack on a fictional DU cohort: supporters of OBL. It is a smear of the entire board by a poster long known for doing just that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
175. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
183. They are not making him the god guy because they want to see
civilized justice. Believe me I've been on your side of the fence except for this, but your statement is totally wrong.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
187. A bit of a stretch and Strawman argument
However, a common and ridiculous argument I've seen here is that Bush was worse than Bin Laden. Such embarassing ignorance.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
189. There is a small, but persistent school of thought on the political left...
...that holds the USA can never do anything right. The view is typified by writers like Noam Chomsky who view the history of this country beginning with Columbus as a continuous series of atrocities and genuinely believe the world would be a better place without us. This view colors their perception of everything this country does.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #189
193. You should use George Soros too.
And perhaps throw in Bill Ayers as a kicker to spice it up. You obviously haven't read Chomsky or Zinn or other serious leftists.

Oh and there was a genocide of native americans. That is simply a fact. To pretend otherwise is idiocy.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #193
199. I did not deny the genocide of Native Americans.
Why are you inferring that I did?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #199
203. Gee I don't know, perhaps it was this:
"writers like Noam Chomsky who view the history of this country beginning with Columbus as a continuous series of atrocities "

Which is typical rightwing native american holocaust denial, as always with a bit of red-baiting.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #203
209. Writers like Chomsky do in fact take that view.
And one can acknowledge the offenses while still recognizing this country as being more than that. It's like saying that Germany is nothing more than a country of Jew-haters despite the fact that they have made many contributions to the culture and the human condition and the fact that most of the Nazis are dead now.

It is easy to forget that a country is a collection of short-lived individuals and not one entity with a single purpose or intention. The good things the USA has accomplished do not negate slavery, genocide or imperialism. Similarly, those things do not negate its positive accomplishments. I've never oppressed a Native American, owned a slave or supported a dictator. I've also never freed a slave, overthrown a monarchy, seperated church from state, created a national park, walked on the moon, given women the right to vote or overthrown fascism. All of those things are simple facts of history and none of it causes me to reach the largely academic point that the world would be better off without us.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #189
212. Chomsky is simply recounting events that were documented by MSM, declassified docs, and the top
players themselves.

It is not so much that he believes the world would be a better place without us but that others already do a more than adequate job of trumpeting our virtues.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
194. This is same lie we used to get from Bushites
Remember when anyone who opposed the Iraq invasion was accused of being pro-Saddam?

I sure do.

The allegation above -- that people concerned about how OBL was taken down are really just pro-OBL -- is EXACTLY the same type of lie with the exact same intention: to make critics seem unpatriotic.



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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
195. I don't see anyone making him the "good guy". I do see people treating him as a "victim"
But to paraphrase President Obama, anyone who thinks Bin Laden hadn't earned his fate should have their head examined.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
196. I for one refuse to participate in the daily two minutes of hate.
Edited on Mon May-09-11 09:47 AM by bemildred
OBL was a pissant, a neanderthal. we elevated him to world historical status, and now we will have to invent new boogeymen, the one thing we cannot imagine is a world without boogeymen.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
198. The OP's smear stands, the counter attacks are deleted.
Excellent job mods!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
202. Unrec'd for confusing the issue.
people roll out the red-fucking-carpet for Westboro Baptist, but don't want to honor laws and treaties and shit against torture, etc. It all seems based on whether you "like" someone or not.

a lot of people seem to "like" westboro, even to the point of allowing them to stalk, harass, interfere with the right to worship, and inflict psychological damage.

But now I'm confusing the issue a bit myself.

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Erose999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
205. Unrec stupid callout thread. If you're cool with "extra judicial assanation" perhaps you'd be cool

with "Free Republic" as well.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #205
206. What was extra-judicial about it? n/t
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
207. What a hack post.
Edited on Mon May-09-11 10:56 AM by Jakes Progress
Do you really, really believe this? Hard to imagine someone being so far off base.

I'll just wait for the links to the posts that praise bin laden. Okay?
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
208. you're really amazing at twisting people's words and intentions.
:eyes:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
214. so when the ACLU defends the human rights of Nazis or Rush Limbaugh, are they making them them the
good guys?

Or are they simply saying laws are laws and we shouldn't have a different set for people we dislike (bin Laden), another for the wealthy (Goldman Sachs), and the regular one for the rest of us.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
220. I don't believe anyone thought he was a good guy,
however, some of us would have preferred to have due process done, like civilized nations are supposed to do, by putting him on trial first before we executed him.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
222. I'm proud of the DU which stands for justice and human rights ....
and think it is the calls to "shove a bazooka up his ass and yell "FIRE IN THE HOLE"

that pull us down as a community.

No one is seeking to make OBL a "good guy" --

but there's no reason to even think that 9/11 happened according to the official myth --

leave alone that OBL was anything but an official CIA/Bush/Cheney cooperating "patsy" --

We were financing OBL up to 9/11 --

Thoughtful calls for justice are always going to be unpopular where immediate retaliation

is preferred and often regretted.

Let's not go there --

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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
223. Not surprising at all. A few weeks ago, DU had fallen in love with Quadaffi...
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #223
231. welcome to ignore
another idiotic statement, that is fitting for the right wing.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #223
233. is dutch liberal like dutch treat?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
229. seriously? Why not accuse DUers of Hating America next time
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #229
232. lol.
indeed
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
238. Just because I said he awesome and my personal hero doesn't mean I think he's "a good guy".
What is wrong with people? :evilgrin:







.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
240. Thanks, Taverner. The navel-gazing nit-pickers can eat it raw.
As far as the "OBL was not armed" meme goes, IIRC, there were weapons within his reach, but he couldn't get to them in time. That's not being unarmed, that's being caught with just his dick in his hand.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #240
244. lol... you tell them!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #240
249. You better tell that to the White House so they can change their story.
:)
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
242. Fail!
unrec
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