Big Tent or "pure" party.

A simple question would you rather have a big tent style party like we have now, or would you rather have a smaller, but more ideologically pure left wing democratic party? The Big Tent party has the obvious advantage of strength in numbers, but you also never know how far you can trust those numbers. With a more pure party, you have lesser numbers, but at least you know when you vote for a democrat you are getting someone who will fight for healthcare for everyone, workers rights, higher taxes on the rich, an end to war, an end to torture and the Patriot Act, social services, etc.

:shrug:

Obviously this requires that we, as democrats, are wise enough to listen to the concerns of others in order to adjust our goals to accomodate their's. Nothing wrong with this.

More, it requires that we actually have a tent. Big or small, you can't invite people in unless we have that tent.

when your own party is referring to you as "retards." :shrug:

I think a Big Tent is the only way we could ever last as a force in politics. If we had many strong parties that would form coalitions like in a Parliamentary system, being "pure" might work. We don't. As it is now, a "pure left wing" would lose every time. Elections matter.

And who would decide who was pure enough? Would you like to have the purity police?

I didn't know it was broken.

sops to one group or another. For example the current anti gun wording

Thanks for playing.

and there are other similar issues. You have read the formal platform I assume?

No other party comes close to the purity of the Republicans, two things drive Republicans, greed and hate. Republicans want *all* the money and they hate anyone to the left of John Birch.

Who do you want in charge of the "big tent" Party? Who do you want calling the shots or not calling the shots, as the case may be? Is the tail wagging the dog or vice-versa?

have say, but not lead. Yes, I know about the 80 or so progressive caucus House members. But more House democrats are not part of that group. So, following your logic, the dog would be centrists.

but in the country. That is proven when polls on ISSUES are taken. Progressive ideals win overwhelmingly. The Party does not represent its majority membership right now. But that is what we will be working to change. The reason for that is that the minority, DLC, wing of the party, took over the leadership and since then, has refused to support Progressive candidates. Without progressive support, no matter how reluctant it was however, the Democratic Party cannot win an election. We supported rotten candidates over the past decade out of fear. But that has all changed now, and progressives are going to be voting for progressives, not whoever the party chooses.

Most of the people I know who donated and went door to door, even for candidates they did not really support, will not be doing that this time. They will donate DIRECTLY to progressive candidates, not to pacs or to a party that does not spend that money on progressive candidates. We've all learned a lot over the past few years. We can no longer be taken for granted. And since we are the majority, it's time to get proper representation. The DLC minority does not represent me or anyone I know on strategy, or on most issues.

I am looking forward to adding good progressive democrats to Congress in the next election and clearing out Republicans wherever possible and Republican/lites.

an unprecented ideological attack, especially this last decade. The (big tent) Democratic Party proved itself too weak to fend it off. The whole political infrastructure of this country is so skewed right, reasonable debate or change of direction under current conditions looks impossible from my angle.

They were in favor of preserving the Union by guaranteeing slavery in perpetuity through a Constitutional amendment--a centrist position that annoyed everyone. In so doing, they spiked the election of 1860 in the American South so that no single candidate could amass enough electoral votes to compete with Abraham Lincoln. Look how that worked out for them.

Nevertheless, having said that, just look to what President Obama is doing to secure his own reelection. He's focusing on issues that break 70%-30%, mainly so that no possible election outcome winds up close enough for the Republicans to steal it. He's a Big Tent President because our democracy is hopelessly corrupted, and populism is the only approach left for a reasonably honest candidate to take.

a "big tent" party so your premise is incorrect. It's powerful, yes, but hardly inclusive of anyone other than those who goose step to the party line and the party line as it stands now is most definitely WAAAAYYY to the right. My vote must be earned.

If you don't believe in the ideology then be an Independent and don't join a Party..If you choose to join a Party then you should at the very least believe in what the Party represents.

The Democratic Party should be a big party because it is the natural best hope of most of the people.

I know what it used to stand for.. Worker's rights, Progressive taxation, Right of Choice, Peace instead of War...Provide for the Health and Welfare of the Nation...I am no longer seeing any of these things from the current Democratic Party. I hear some talk about some of these things but no direct action of any sort.

The way you win elections is not by chasing after mythical centrists, but in getting the usually disillusioned left-wing independents to the polls. The reason the Pukes did so well in 2010 is because they got the RW independents out to the polls while left-wing independents where disillusioned by Obama's selling out to corporate interests and stayed home.

how else did democrats have a 292-143 house majority in 1977 and a 61-38-1 senate majority? I don't know about you guys, but I would love to have a majority like that again.

Maybe I didn't make it clear, I don't believe that chasing the "centrists', whoever they are, will work. We need to motivate the left in this country to vote for dems.

The center is the predominant voting block by a large margin, it includes most independents.

No thanks.

and you can feel good voting for them. Apparently it doesn't matter if they'll ever win. Supporters will sleep tight in the knowledge they are morally superior.

I flash back to the excitement expressed by DU progressives about the recent election in Canada. All the party that progressives was excited about did was drain votes from the more liberal of the major parties and hand the conservatives an outright majority. Pure fucking brilliance.

...is having a tent so big even far far rightos are welcome?

False dichotomy.

The country would improve so much under a Kucinich administration.

Sad, but true!!

Who are the Dems who don't want moderates? And why?

The disdain for centrists is a centerpiece of some.

The last two democratic presidents have been centrists, Clinton and Obama. Secondly, you are right a lot of us do hate centrists polices(not the people themselves though) such as free trade, keeping Gitmo open, not ending the wars, not fighting for single-payer health care, etc. You are right, I do disdain those positions. I think they are terrible for this country, but the idea that centrists are being forced out is laughable, the Left is being forced out the the centrists and moderates.

them-self a Democrat can support corporatism.

FDR said, "The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power."

I believe that most progressive Democrats think that there is a great deal of truth in this statement.

Progressives cannot fathom how centrists can support corporatism when to them, corporatism clearly is the root of the majority of the problems and evils faced by our country.

When someone is claiming to be a Democrat, and says they support progressive domestic social policies, but at the same time supports the underlying bases for the actions of conservative republicans like Scott Walker, the Koch Bros, and the 5 Conservative Supreme Court Justices (etc., ad nauseum), progressives see this as disingenuous and completely unacceptable, and are suspicious of centrists for this reason.

Corporatists are clearly and undeniably attempting to dismantle the programs and end policies that help the less fortunate, create more equitable opportunity for all, and protect workers' rights, etc. It is clearly not progressive bleeding heart liberals that wish to dismantle these programs.

So, Progressives think, how can someone say they support domestic social programs and workers' rights and the Democratic Party while at the same time are supporting the very engine that is hellbent on destroying these things?

This is the irreconcilable difference between progressives and centrists. Progressives in general view corporatism as the very core of conservative ideology. Republicans are corporatists. Centrists support corporatism.

With all due respect, how can we exist in the same tent with someone that is, (hopefully, in ignorance), supporting our enemies? How do progressive Democrats find common ground with those that they view as allies of the very forces that are rapidly destroying everything that is good about our country?

Scratches head.
:shrug:

This is the essence of why most progressives genuinely do feel disdain for centrists.

That is lost on progressives that want to somehow purge the democratic party of a group that still overwhelm them in numbers. All I hear from many posts that decry what is called big tent is how to loose elections. This poster wonders whether progressives don't secretly love the street protest scene, which is what they get with any republican.

I think that would solve a lot of problems.

A more 'pure' party, not "everyone must agree to this list or you're out" BUT it would be nice if there were things we could by and large say the democrats believe in and vote for which we don't have. Even nicer would be if democrats stood up for the things they are supposed to care about as part of their 'big tent' and actually said so instead of some blowing with the wind so often.

The problem with our big tent is there are people who don't really 'fit' the alleged party, a large part of why is the traditional thinking has been you need conservative democrats to win 'conservative' voters which is just playing the game the republicans setup. IF democrats fought the propaganda/lies/etc and stood up for the things most americans want while showing how republicans don't care about the majority of people's voices more democratic candidates could and would win those elections. Instead democrats seize on the random republican screw up for the odd election while republicans are playing the game, setting it up, and cheating for the long haul.

Even worse is what we see now in the form of attacks on the democratic party's future and the party is absent from the fight and in some cases on the wrong side. Republicans are winning the fight of the parties even as they face revolt from the teaparty their big business elitist agenda continues in full swing and has been for years while the democratic party becomes more and more corrupted.

And so do I.

Very aggravating sometimes.

I can see by the rec's how DU feels about this. At least the purists anyway....lol

Sorry purists but it's big tent that wins elections.

Julie

out of the big tent...

There are thousands of topics and for each one there are hundreds of opinions on each.

There is no pure position that everyone will agree on.

It's either "pure" party (the definition of which no large group could agree on), or Big Tent.

Aren't we?

What do we need to change??

I'm not sure I'd like to choose between never having the power to make a difference, or having to sacrifice what I believe in.

little choice.

I usually vote NDP, who are to the left of the Liberals, who are basically equivalent to the centre-to-right wing of the Democratic party. (Or, rather, the NDP would be the furthest left wing of the Democrats). I could be tempted to vote Green for the right person, though, or even Liberal in some cases. I really like having the choice.

more ideological driven and takes firm stances on key issues like women's rights, gay rights, the social safety net and most importantly of all - human rights. I'm tired of wishy-washy pols who put a D in front of their name just to get elected.