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The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West Went Ballistic

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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:11 PM
Original message
The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West Went Ballistic
No one grasps this tragic descent better than West, who did 65 campaign events for Obama, believed in the potential for change and was encouraged by the populist rhetoric of the Obama campaign. He now nurses, like many others who placed their faith in Obama, the anguish of the deceived, manipulated and betrayed. He bitterly describes Obama as “a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats. And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it.”
“When you look at a society you look at it through the lens of the least of these, the weak and the vulnerable; you are committed to loving them first, not exclusively, but first, and therefore giving them priority,” says West, the Class of 1943 University Professor of African American Studies and Religion at Princeton University. “And even at this moment, when the empire is in deep decline, the culture is in deep decay, the political system is broken, where nearly everyone is up for sale, you say all I have is the subversive memory of those who came before, personal integrity, trying to live a decent life, and a willingness to live and die for the love of folk who are catching hell. This means civil disobedience, going to jail, supporting progressive forums of social unrest if they in fact awaken the conscience, whatever conscience is left, of the nation. And that’s where I find myself now.”
“I have to take some responsibility,” he admits of his support for Obama as we sit in his book-lined office. “I could have been reading into it more than was there.”

“I was thinking maybe he has at least some progressive populist instincts that could become more manifest after the cautious policies of being a senator and working with Lieberman as his mentor,” he says. “But it became very clear when I looked at the neoliberal economic team. The first announcement of Summers and Geithner I went ballistic. I said, ‘Oh, my God, I have really been misled at a very deep level.’ And the same is true for Dennis Ross and the other neo-imperial elites. I said, ‘I have been thoroughly misled, all this populist language is just a facade. I was under the impression that he might bring in the voices of brother Joseph Stiglitz and brother Paul Krugman. I figured, OK, given the structure of constraints of the capitalist democratic procedure that’s probably the best he could do. But at least he would have some voices concerned about working people, dealing with issues of jobs and downsizing and banks, some semblance of democratic accountability for Wall Street oligarchs and corporate plutocrats who are just running amuck. I was completely wrong.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_obama_deception_why_cornel_west_went_ballistic_20110516/#

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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. I know how he feels.
I was reading a blog a few days ago, a mix of right/left/independents some of whom supported Obama but are seriously disappointed in him now. Many of them veterans. But they asked the question 'is he being forced to do the things he's doing, maybe he didn't realize that he would not have the powers he thought he would have'. I think a lot of people are asking that question about the US presidency.

Rec'd but of course it disappeared. Another former hero of the left, tossed into the garbage bin of history. As if doing so will hide the facts West has laid out.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
485. What you said sabrina.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Amen, brother.
:cry:
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
380. +1,000 for brother West.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #380
464. Absolutely! He's been a hero of mine for a very long time! I used to videotape
anything he was on... while he speaks very clearly, there is always depth to what he says that is worth a relisten.

:hug: for Dr. West!
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Speaking truth to power
K&R
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
6.  “a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."
Cornell West is becoming a clown. When was this interview? That condescending idiotic quote keeps popping up.

"I was under the impression that he might bring in the voices of brother Joseph Stiglitz and brother Paul Krugman."

Yeah, the socialists Stiglitz and Krugman (the guy who loves health care reform).

Maybe West could take a break from Princeton and start the economic justice movement he long for instead of taking moronic pot shots at the President becuase he's disappointed, which he has been since 2008.

What a joke!



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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Trash the messenger, ignore the message
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yes,
Cornel West's screeds are making him appear clownish.

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HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. So nothing but ad hominem
That's all you got, right?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. There's
more, but you have to read the rest of the comments.

I think West's criticisms are full of shit.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
219. I'm sure he would have a similar opinion of yours.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
308. Deleted message
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #308
351. I know,
kill the bill = progressive!

Garbage then, and still garbage.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #351
356. Not necessarily KILL the bill
Keep fighting for a real bill, use the Republican opposition to health care to attack the Right in the 2010 campaign;

OR

If there was NO other choice but to pass the worthless shell of a bill we got, at least pledge, at the signing, that the fight would start, the NEXT day, for a REAL healthcare bill in the next Congress, with the prospect of that used to build turnout and enthusiasm for the fall.

Instead, the admin just said "this is all there will EVER be...so eat your shitburger, peasants".

You know the bill we got wasn't really worth anything and that there was no good reason to just say that that was all there would EVER be. What happened was simply bad politics, and it showed that the admin didn't really care about healthcare or standing up to Wall Street at all.

You can't care about those things and settle for the nothingness we got in both of those bills, AND then tell people that they have no right to expect any more later.

A healthcare-bill-in-name is nothing.
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Johnny Morales Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #356
374. that's funny
so eat your shitburger peasants.

:)

Does that presage the day when the highest paid job for people in the middle class is being human toilets for the ultra-wealthy?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
354. Deleted message
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #354
357. Hmmmm?
"Cornell West is not a clown. You should apologize for your baseless and questionable insult and language."

His criticism was clownish. And no, he earned the criticism. Learn to spell his name.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #357
372. Deleted message
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #372
382. And
did you notice that she misspelled his name first?
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #382
458. Yep
But that's a silly, inconsequential thing to bring up in an internet argument. It shows a weak position and reeks of desperation. Don't you think?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #458
474. Wait
wasn't that a quote.

Interesting.

:rofl:

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #474
489. Deleted message
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #372
454. "His criticism was spot on. "
No, it was fucking clownish.

Don't like the characterization? Tough!

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #454
459. Scrounging around for argument?
Keep reaching down there. Maybe you can dredge up another really good one like this. Snicker.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #459
477. Ah
the self-righteousness of defending a clownish comment.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #477
490. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #490
496. Deleted message
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #490
501. Wow
"The comment was not clownish. It was the man's opinion."

Your grasp of logic is astounding!

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #501
507. Thank you for the compliment.
I was hoping you would get it.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #50
442. He is full of shit. I'm sick of him. Ever seen Cornel West marching
for anything? Hell no. He talks a lot of shit but doesn't do squat.

He's an asshole.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
567. hmm...
Given the huge number of posts you've accumulated during your tenure on DU--an average of over 35 PER DAY--I think you spend most of your waking hours in front of your puter, posting divisive and judgmental drivel. How pathetic.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
200. You realize that this is all Cornell has, right? (ad hominems) n/t
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
272. Clownish?
Jesus.
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
482. Goose Stepping Democrats
Are scarcely better than goose-stepping republicans.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #482
505. And
idiocy transcends party.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
214. The message isn't substantive. Why should the response be?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
280. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #280
329. He's my buddy
:rofl:
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lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
524. SSDD here on DU
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. What facts did he get wrong in the article? n/t
n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Facts?
It's an opinion piece.

"I said, ‘Oh, my God, I have really been misled at a very deep level.’"

Video: The Precarious Fate of Barack Obama

Transcript:


Cornel West: I think that my dear brother Barack Obama, President Obama, he's a very complicated fellow. He has a sterling democratic rhetoric at his best that reminds you of Saul Alinsky and the others at times. He has a technocratic team when it comes to policy, so there's not just a tension but oftentimes there's contradictions between the two, you see. He comes out of a black tradition that has been explicit about telling the truth about white supremacy, but he himself holds race at arm's length until there's a crisis: Jamal right here, and Skip Gates there, you see. And it's partly because he's such a masterful politician. He's brilliant, he's charismatic, he's a masterful politician. And he's concerned about cutting the deal and winning the election. And I think in the end this is going to be a major challenge for him.

He has to decide whether he wants to be an Abe Lincoln, who began as a mediocre politician -- remember, Abe Lincoln supported the first proposed thirteenth Amendment that set slavery for ever in the U.S. Constitution. Frederick Douglas bought a ticket to go to Haiti; he said, I would never live in a nation that has an unamendable amendment. Lincoln supported that. That was opportunistic at the core; he hated slavery, but he was willing to say keep these people in slavery for ever to preserve the union. You see, that's not the Lincoln that we talk about as great. Lincoln became great because of Harriet Beecher Stowe, Wendell Phillips, Charles Sumner, who was beat up by Preston Brooks from South Carolina, Frederick Douglas, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman. It was the abolitionist movement that helped make Lincoln great. Barack Obama has a choice between the greatness of a Lincoln and the masterful Machiavellian sensibilities of a Bill Clinton, who was brilliant, charismatic, masterful, but tended to be too opportunistic. So far, Barack Obama has leaned more toward the Clinton side than the Lincoln side. That was partly because he doesn't have an abolitionist movement equivalent. He doesn't have a social movement. That's what we need to do: we need to put pressure on him.

Question: What would this effort look like?

Cornel West: Well, it's a very good question. I mean, the kind of thing you're doing here on the Internet is very important, because it won't take the old traditional form of just hitting the streets. Hitting the streets will be one form; it's got to take a whole host of different forms, different voices, different views, different visions put forward, critiques of what's going on behind the scenes to reveal the contradictions of the Obama administration. We need young people who are looking at the world through a very different set of lenses than even myself, because I'm old-school, you know. And no school has the monopoly on truth. Yes, I do still see classes, and I see empires and so forth and so on. But there's also ways of looking at the world through popular culture that young people have that I don't fully understand, so that some of their criticisms would take forms that it will take me time to understand and grasp, you see. But we have to have the courage to not just raise our voices, but connect into organizations so that people can begin to see there are alternatives than the old neoliberalism dressed up in fashionable form, with a democratic rhetoric that hides a concealed technocratic policy. And it could be that, you know, Barack Obama himself, you know, he's waiting to make his turn toward Lincolnesque greatness. He hasn't made it yet, and of course the decision on Afghanistan is going to be very important. It's going to be difficult to have a peace prize and be a war president.


Was that before or after being "misled"?

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thanks for the point by point refutation. Your facts sure do beat his. n/t
n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. And
you just made me laugh. Thanks for that.

:rofl:

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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
202. +9999, these "Oh, I was so deceived, he's so terrible" screeds are melodramatic bullshit. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #202
228. Obviously, Cornell "hates" Obama ... and wants a Pink Pony ... !!!
Let's see -- what are the other ones on the list --

Magic Wands -- Miracles -- Chess Game --


:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #202
267. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
203. Before, I'd say. nt.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
291. Thanks for that West excerpt. One of the most insightful things I've read
in a long time.

The slaves should have gotten their 40 acres and a mule.

Instead they got de-facto slavery (share-cropping) and 100 years of American apartheid.

Lincoln should have crushed those racist bastards once and for all.
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
438. Should have known
West should have known that he was going to be misled.

There is a very large difference between 'speaking the truth to power' and actually having power.
West is in the business of 'speaking the truth to power' - he writes polemics - and Obama is president.

Yes, it is possible that West was misled; he did say that he was.

But, he should not have been.
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DontTreadOnMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Name ONE SINGLE thing that is incorrect in his statement
I know facts get in the way, but your ideology in your posts is just so obvious...
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. "Name ONE SINGLE thing that is incorrect in his statement"
Edited on Mon May-16-11 03:52 PM by ProSense
What's with all the screaming about facts in a man's opinion?

“There is the personal level,” he says. “I used to call my dear brother (Obama) every two weeks. I said a prayer on the phone for him, especially before a debate. And I never got a call back. And when I ran into him in the state Capitol in South Carolina when I was down there campaigning for him he was very kind. The first thing he told me was, ‘Brother West, I feel so bad. I haven’t called you back. You been calling me so much. You been giving me so much love, so much support and what have you.’ And I said, ‘I know you’re busy.’ But then a month and half later I would run into other people on the campaign and he’s calling them all the time. I said, wow, this is kind of strange. He doesn’t have time, even two seconds, to say thank you or I’m glad you’re pulling for me and praying for me, but he’s calling these other people. I said, this is very interesting. And then as it turns out with the inauguration I couldn’t get a ticket with my mother and my brother. I said this is very strange. We drive into the hotel and the guy who picks up my bags from the hotel has a ticket to the inauguration. My mom says, ‘That’s something that this dear brother can get a ticket and you can’t get one, honey, all the work you did for him from Iowa.’ Beginning in Iowa to Ohio. We had to watch the thing in the hotel.


West sounds scorned. Prior to that paragraph, the piece claims West was looking for populist instincts in Obama despite "Lieberman as his mentor."

If he was being ignored on the campaign trail, why is he surprised by anything?

This story reads like pieced together bullshit to fan outrage.


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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Liberman WAS his mentor. You are supposed to be naming incorrect things,
Edited on Mon May-16-11 03:54 PM by Dr Fate
We get that you disagree with Cornell and you note that he is outraged- but we are trying identify any factually incorrect statements he is making.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Can
you point to where I stated that Lieberman wasn't his mentor?

Also, you're still dealing with West's opinion, not facts.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. You were responding to a post that asked for incorrect statements. You had no examples.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:07 PM by Dr Fate
We get that you and Cornell share diff. opinions- I was just wondering if he made any incorrect statements. So far, no.

I focused on the Lieberman statement b/c you chose to to put in quotes in a response to a post where you were asked to note incorrect statements.




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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
529. How much are you paid?
Edited on Tue May-17-11 02:51 PM by Hawkowl
Seriously, how much are you paid to spin this bullshit? :puke:
:
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #529
562. No kidding. I have been thinking the same thing for a while. nt
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
309. identify any factually incorrect statements he is making.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:46 PM by AlbertCat
Well,
Obama, Krugman and Stiglitz are not brothers.

(Actually, this calling people "brother" is religious crap that sounds over the top and theatrical. Doesn't make me want to listen to his arguments because he sounds more ideological than he makes Obama out to be, I find I don't care what West thinks.)
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #309
361. Calling people 'brother' is an idiomatic product of time and place and context...
like calling people 'man', 'dude', 'fucker', 'blood', 'comrade', 'compadre', 'guey', or any of a number of other things.

Your casual dismissal of it as "over the top and theatrical", and concomitant dismissal of any merits of anything else West says on the basis of his use of a term which you have arbitrarily decided you don't like... says more about your own open-mind-limitations than it says about anything West might say. (It doesn't make him sound ideological, it makes you sound culturally closed-minded to make that judgement.)
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #309
449. OMG, are you THAT unaware of common parlance??
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
58. OMG...You're right
It sounds like the "folkies" attacks against Dylan.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Dylan sold millions more records and had more hits after he went electric.
So we can only hope that the parallels continue, and that the "folkies" are wrong.

Will the "Elecric New Normal Off-Shoring" tours be more lucrative than the the old folky "Made in the USA Acoustic" tour from the 1950's & 1960's?

I dunno, the old music the Liberals used to make kinda sounded better, but maybe the centrists are not done laying down the rest of the vocals. Time will tell.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
113. Therein lies the problem
If all you record is the strictly acoustic liberal music, you may get 20% of the music lovers to buy-in. If you record only the hard-right Ted Nugent influenced "screech rock", you may get 20% of the music lovers to buy-in.

Now, those tunes may please the hard-core fans of either type of music, but you turn off the rest of the 60% who prefer something a little more "listenable".

The only way you can be successful with the vast majority of fans is to record some music that might have small elements of the "extreme" music, but is something the 60% can dance to.

Wouldn't be a very good Prom if all they played is "old" Dylan music. Even if you were a huge fan, it would probably get old.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #113
125. No problem at all. Liberals know that the economy was better b/f centrism took hold.
If the "electric" period (Centrism, off shoring tax cuts for the Kochs, etc) of the 80's- to present was more lucrative than the acoustic period of the 50's & 60's (Liberalism, top 1% taxed at 90%, every thing made in the USA, etc)then you would have a point. The folkies (Liberals) would be off base for booing.

Your metaphor does not work b/c in real life, Dylan made more money after leaving the folkies (Liberal economic policies). In reality, the USA is poorer after "going electric"- not richer like Dylan was.

We dont have to speak in metaphors- just look at the liberal economy of the 50's 60's and compare it to the centrist & conservative polices we have been creeping toward since the 80's.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #125
208. I don't disagree with you
but I think it depends on how you define "liberalism". To some on the left, FDR would be considered a "wingnut" conservative.

It's easy to be idealistic if you stop being realistic. You can be pure as the driven snow, and appeal to 20% of the American electorate, achieve infinite minority status...and get nothing close to what you believe in accomplished, or you can appeal to the majority of the American people and actually get "some" of what you believe in put in to law.

They don't say that "politics is the art of compromise" for nothing.

and you know what....70% of those old "folkies" ended up as Dylan fans. The rest are still stuck waiting for their idea of Utopia to show up.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #208
403. Who on the left?
"To some on the left, FDR would be considered a "wingnut" conservative."

Really? I don't believe you have thought this through. I can think of no one on the left that would consider FDR a wingnut conservative.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #403
483. Really? Look at some of this from FDR's record and tell me some on DU wouldn't "knee-cap" him?
- On March 10, he asked Congress to slash the salaries of federal government employees by $100 million, with an additional $400 million sliced from veterans' pensions. This stunning cut -- total annual federal expenditures then running at $4.6 billion -- came in a measure called "A Bill to Maintain the Credit of the United States Government."

- As Roosevelt took a firmer stance against the Axis Powers, American isolationists—including Charles Lindbergh and America First—vehemently attacked the President as an irresponsible warmonger.<131> Roosevelt initiated FBI and Internal Revenue Service investigations of his loudest critics; no legal actions resulted.<132> Unfazed by these criticisms, and confident in the wisdom of his foreign policy initiatives, FDR continued his twin policies of preparedness and aid to the Allied coalition. On December 29, 1940, he delivered his Arsenal of Democracy fireside chat, in which he made the case for involvement directly to the American people, and a week later he delivered his famous Four Freedoms speech in January 1941, further laying out the case for an American defense of basic rights throughout the world.

- Internment of Germans, Japanese and Italians
Main articles: German American internment, Japanese American internment, and Italian American internment
When the war began the danger of a Japanese attack on the coast led to growing pressure to remove people of Japanese descent away from the coastal region. This pressure grew due to fears of terrorism, espionage, and/or sabotage. On February 19, 1942, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066 which relocated the "Issei" (first generation of Japanese immigrants who did not have U.S. citizenship) and their children, "Nisei" (who had dual citizenship).

- Roosevelt needed the support of Southern Democrats for his New Deal programs, and he therefore decided not to push for anti-lynching legislation that might threaten his ability to pass his highest priority programs—though he did denounce lynchings as "a vile form of collective murder".<157>

- Beginning in the 1960s FDR was charged<159> with not acting decisively enough to prevent or stop the Holocaust. Critics cite instances such as the 1939 episode in which 936 Jewish refugees on the SS St. Louis were denied asylum and not allowed into the United States because of strict laws passed by Congress.

- Roosevelt was unwilling to desegregate the armed forces. However, on June 25, 1941, Roosevelt signed Executive Order 8802, forbidding discrimination on account of "race, creed, color, or national origin" in the hiring of workers in defense related industries.<160>

- Enemy aliens and people of Japanese ancestry fared badly. On February 19, 1942, Roosevelt issued Executive Order 9066 that applied to everyone classified as an "enemy alien", including people who had dual citizenship living in designated high-risk areas that covered most of the cities on the West Coast.<161> With the U.S at war with Italy, some 600,000 Italian aliens (citizens of Italy who did not have U.S. citizenship) were subjected to strict travel restrictions; the restrictions were lifted in October 1942.<162> Some 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry were forced to leave the West Coast. From 1942 to 1945, they lived in internment camps inland. Those outside the West Coast, and in Hawaii, were not affected.

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Prana69 Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #125
252. I like your perspective but....
... you've also got to factor in a completely different global economy in the 50s and 60s compared to 80s -> today.

China was no economic powerhouse; Japan's massive technological transformation was still in it's infancy; no massive Indian economy and labour market; oil market / cartels were a completely different beast.

As the only economy to "survive" WW2 (actually, thrive during WW2) the US was operating in a very different environment in the 50s and 60s - one where it had no natural competitors and was very dominant.

That world changed, and it has changed the US.

P69
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #125
366. Centrism didn't take hold ever. We went from...
Laissez Fairism to Liberalism to a supply side version of Laissez Fairism. Not sure any of those moves qualify as "Centrist" economics.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #366
536. I thought centrism was just DU speak for economic conservatism. N/t
...

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
305. Although of all the songs the electric Dylan wrote, none of them were as good as
"Blown in the Wind."
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
62. He doesn't sound scorned to me. He sounds like someone
who was making excuses for someone he placed so much hope in, as we all did, but as time passed, looking back, he sees the behavior he was willing to overlook in a different light. And it's not a very flattering light, either for him, since he excused it, or for the president as it exposed a character very different than the one he projected to the public.

Iow, West is a realist. Rather than continue to blindly support someone he now has many disagreements on policies with, he is simply being honest.

I wouldn't worry if I were you, I'm sure Obama will survive. After all he has made many new friends and probably really doesn't need the 'old ones'. And in fact, that is what the Prof. is pointing out, isn't it? That Obama is just a regular old politician after all. He was never going to change the world or the country in any significant way. 'Change' was just a slogan.

My question is 'did he know that, or did he really think he could change things only to find out that there is a system in place and all the POTUS is at this point in time, is a sort of CEO of a corp and only people with good skills at selling the business will ever get near the WH.

It's an important question, and many are asking it.
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Knight Hawk Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #62
295. My guess would be..................
that Obama was naive about the power he would have as president.He just did not have the experience necessary to be a strong leader.He also perhaps does not have the personality to ever be a great leader.Much more experienced and brutal people had his number before he was even sworn in.If Wash. and the halls of power can get to men like Nixon and LBJ ,what do you think they can do to an Obama?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #295
330. So much bullshit in one paragraph.....
almost would lead someone to believe you came from the other side,
cause this sounds quite RWish.....He's not a strong leader....
or you just don't like how he is leading? That's an opinion, but
based on what he was able to accomplished that other Presidents have not....
your opinion is not backed by facts.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #330
404. Um, with just a few shining moments,
he has been a poor leader who prefers backroom deals to actual confrontation. But then, he's only been on the job for three years, so......

Look, FrenchieCat, I'm glad you still support him and I even admire your determination to support him. I would just ask one favor of you: please stop telling us that we don't see what we see and we don't hear what we hear. You're entitled to your opinions but not your facts.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #62
402. Yep
And he isn't alone. A couple of people here will try to scratch the eyes out of any who see clearly, but with each passing day and same old shit governing, there are fewer and fewer here who will scratch your eyes out. And here, despite what some might say, are the canaries in the coal mine. I'm not saying he won't get a second term, he will, because he had the boogieman murdered and that counts for a lot from the fence sitters. He has my vote because I'm just too tired to care enough this time around but I won't walk the precincts and I won't open my wallet. He doesn't need me, he's made that clear and I am neither blind nor deaf, just like Mr. West.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
164. it sounds like Cornel needs to read "He's Just Not That Into You." n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #164
270. I don't think that's very flattering to President Obama!
'He's just not that into you' is fine, unless he's pretended to be when he needed something.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #270
405. 2008
He did it to us all.

And yeah, he's not that into us. Some of us figured it out early, some a little later, anyone who still believes he's into anything other than Wall Street and the rich elite, well, they aren't ever going to see.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #405
525. Yes, seems to be a pattern with him. Which is why I said
it wasn't such a good idea to remind us. Some presidents have exibited different personalities where personal loyalty to good friends is important.

I can't get a feeling for this president's personality at all. He has dropped people as soon as the right went after them, Van Jones eg, among others. And as far as the left is concerned, he used them, I always felt he was embarrassed to be viewed as 'left'. In an interview with O'Reilly eg, when O'Reilly asked him about 'lefties' online such as Daily Kos (who fiercely supported him btw) he did not defend them. He talked around the subject, conscious of the trap he felt he was in, if he slammed DK, he could lose a lot of much needed activism in order to win, but if he defended them, he might lose those right-leaning 'pragmatists' he seems to respect so much. I think he'd be thrilled if he thought he could win without the left.

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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
493. And there's the crux of this whole matter. Cornell's feelings are hurt
because he is not now, nor was he ever, a part of the President's inner circle. Cornell & Tavis may be heroes to a lot of pissed off socialists, but they do not speak for the AA community. I can almost guarantee that the president's approval in the AA community is 20 times that of either of these brand new assholes.

It was assholes like Tavis and Cornell, at the outset, who were intimating that Prez O wasn't "black enough". Fuck Cornell, America didn't elect Malcolm X.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
217. Name one single thing that is correct in his statement
other than the fact that some of the "brothers" haven't been pulled into Obama's administration.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. Funny how critics suddenly become so stupid when your guy is in office.
The critics haven't changed. You just stopped tolerating criticism when the political seats moved around.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Too true. And the behavior doesn't do anyone (even them) any good.
I understand the behavior. I understand why they do it. It just doesn't serve them or anyone. If there was some upside to the denial I could make more sense of it, but it doesn't.

PB
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
53. Forgive me
“a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."

...if I find such criticisms offensive, especially coming from West.

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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. Yes, I know-- critics like West should say only nice things.
Or even better, just say nothing. Until there's a Republican in office again, of course. Then honest criticism will be back in vogue and we can all say what a "treasure" Mr. West is, and how wise, and perceptive.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #63
74. Hey
I'd settle for rational!

West is trying too hard. Maybe he needs to quite hanging out with Tavis Smiley, who lost credibility years ago.

West could barely hold his own with Al Sharpton because he's losing perspective in his criticisms. Sharpton smacked him down good.

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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
105. Perspective is a subjective.
I don't think he's off base at all, personally-- and just because you find yourself disagreeing with someone strongly and often doesn't mean they've lost credibility.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
117. Sharpton was always a great debater. You seem to be implying
that he wasn't. He could slap down Republicans better than anyone I know, and did so many times. It's his trade, he's a NYer and he's good. So, it would not be a surprise if in a dispute with anyone, including Prof. West, he came off looking pretty good. Not sure why you find it remarkable, assuming it happened, unless you don't know him very well.

He's not a man to get into an argument with even if you are 100% right! He's like a prize fighter when it comes to 'winning' debates, even when he's 100% wrong.
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SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #74
242. Travis lost credibility and was shunned.
Because he happened to see Obama as he was.

Like most of us see him now.

In other words he was shunned because he was right.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #242
276. Tavis supported Hillary Clinton......
and like selling whatever he is selling via Corporate logos in the background.

Plu-eaze!
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
311. Sharpton has more credibility? Really?
now that's funny.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
307. exactly.
Cornell needs to go to his corner and just shut the fuck up until Jeb Bush or Palin or whoever gets appointed as POTUS.. then West's outspoken observations and critisisms will be considered brilliant, courageous, fearless and heroic.
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xphile Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
140. Especially from West?
Why? Is West only supposed to agree with you? West hasn't changed. He is consistent with what he believes in. I see no reason why Professor West should tone down his criticism in order to make a subset of white people more comfortable.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #140
183. Hmmmm?
"I see no reason why Professor West should tone down his criticism in order to make a subset of white people more comfortable."

Is there a "a subset of white people" relishing West's criticism?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #53
285. Vile words with no relation to reality...
Fuck Cornel West. It's disappointing to see that this racially-offensive tripe has gained so much back-slapping support here on DU.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #285
325. racially-offensive tripe
And religious tripe. West is preaching. Yuk.

Obama ain't the greatest thing since sliced bread, that's for sure (white bread?) But “a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."? Would a white mascot and puppet be more acceptable?

Over the top preachin".
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #285
353. Wrong! n/t
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #285
407. Imagine for one minute that everything that has been said here
was said about Bush, because, other than being much, much, more articulate, Obama has governed pretty close to exactly like Bush. I was thrilled when Obama became our first black President and from that angle, still am, but I got past his skin color pretty quickly and haven't been very impressed with the content of his soul. That surprised and hurt me and I'm sure I'm not alone. And really, my disappointment in his governing has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Wait, that's not entirely true, whenever Obama does something amazingly stupid, awful and Bushlike, I cringe, because I think "Damn, history is going to point out that our first black President did some stupid crap! Why did he have to be the first black President if he was going to govern like a stupid white fake Texan?".
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #407
413. You are imagining 95% of that.
Sorry to say.
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #53
441. Rhetoric
It is merely a political insult.

Rhetoric of that nature is put on a regular basis.

Responding to it, dignifies it.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
389. +1
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
56. Wow, he hit a nerve, didn't he?
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #56
205. Doesnt it always when people post stupid stuff about people you like? n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
278. Hit a bunch of hyperbole bullshit that certain Liberals eat up.....
the kind that never get in power, and are totally pissed about that.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #278
408. I'm not so old that I can't remember that Obama's inauguration night
That was heady and joyous. We, the liberals thought we had finally gotten into power.

Over the next three years, Obama made it clear that he just wasn't that into us.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
229. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
244. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
271. He's not the clown here.
:eyes:

You're very predictable.
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peace4ever Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
287. thats the problem
power can not tolerate any criticism, even from the peoples most respected leaders.

very revealing.

thanks for illustrating the problem so effectively, and prodigiously.


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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
400. Entirely wrong.
I know of a joke but it is no longer funny.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
415. i'd love to see you say that to his face. nt
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Cornell West was inconsequential in 2008 and he will be again 2012...
I sense he knows this. Which is why he's gone ballistic. Someone with his ego can't accept that his voice is, fortunately for the rest of us on planet earth, a small minority.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. What facts did he get wrong in the article? n/t
n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thanks for the point by point refutation. Your facts sure do beat his. n/t
n/t
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You're welcome...
Glad I could help.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Yes- your hard facts comparing West to "Keyboard warriors" was very enlightening.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:14 PM by Dr Fate
And helpful. Now that I'm armed with the facts, West can never fool me into thinking all that Liberal stuff again.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. What exactly has he done the last three years to advance anything progressive?
He's spent it railing against everything Pres. Obama has done, but offers little in terms of substance.

That's exactly my point. We're so quick to complain about Obama and yet, none of these people on the left offer up any answers on how to correct this or that outside of just attacking the one person who's actually working to do something.

West can bitch all he wants about the state of the country - but if he's not willing to actually help make it better, why should I respect his opinion? Why should you?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I wondered whether West made any factually incorrect statements or not. Apparently he did not.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:36 PM by Dr Fate
You are correct to state that a sitting President with full media access and executive branch powers has more influence and more opportunities to make changes and advance the progressive agenda than does a college professor. Go figure.

That fact was never at issue with me.

Citizen critics unltimately do less than elected officials to pass laws, etc? I suppose you could say that about any voter, large or small who takes issue with ANY elected or appointed official.

What voters can do is try to influence those we elect- which is what West has been trying to do.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
206. I didn't see any factual assertions in his article. They were all emotional "I feel like..." kind of
statements.

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TMED Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
204. You underestimate Dr. West
He is on the steering committee of the New Progressive Alliance, (see newprogs.org). NPA is planning to run a Democratic primary candidate against Obama in 2012, and when that (likely) fails, switch their support to an independent or 3rd party candidate.

The NPA process has voted on a prioritized list of people who could fill this Dem primary candidate slot. Elizabeth Warren is the #1 pick. Dr. West did not make the top 10 of this list, but perhaps he'd be willing to run in a similar fashion against an incumbent Dem Senator.

From the newprogs' website:

The steering committee’s first four members were Cindy Sheehan, Dr. Jill Stein, Richard Winger and Dr. Cornel West. After its first phone conference in early February of 2011, the committee added Paul Barrow, Alan Maki, and David Swanson, and recruitment efforts will continue indefinitely to ensure the committee represents the full breadth and depth of the Progressive community.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #204
342. I suppose then this article is a mean to the end of promoting his own committee dude.
Action #1....find something to rail about on Obama. Death panels already over used. OBL caught, can't use that. Plenty already blaming Obama on the slow economic recovery. I know! expand on Palin's "Hopey Changey" meme. That got broad applause once, it should work again.
Action #2....Keep railing and insert nonsensical metaphores and watch keyboard warriors clammor to jump on the bandwagon.
Action #3....no need for facts, just strong personal opinions work especially if presented from the perspective on knowledge.
Action #4....introduce new dude/dudette for POTUS.

Your comment on the New Progressive Alliance seems to make West's comments even more clear. West is just another shill playing up his actions steps for hand picked dude.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #342
345. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #204
343. Are you serious?
"The NPA process has voted on a prioritized list of people who could fill this Dem primary candidate slot. Elizabeth Warren is the #1 pick."

Talk about delusional!

No ulterior motive there!

:rofl:

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TMED Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #343
503. Serious as a heart attack
Here is the whole of the list that was voted on:

1. Elizabeth Warren
2. Russ Feingold
3. Howard Dean

4. Richard Trumka
5. Alan Grayson

6. Cynthia McKinney
7. Al Franken
8. Paul Krugman
9. Dennis Kucinich

10. Jane Hamsher



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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #204
488. This is the most telling evidence that has been presented. It explains his intentions.
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TMED Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #488
506. Hmmm, no, I think you have it almost backwards
Dr. West's disenchantment with Obama is quite real. I presume that, wishing to do more than just vent (talk is cheap, after all), Dr. West is helping organize a political force to counteract that of the corporatized Democrats, in general (i.e., not just Obama).

Of course, West could have simply contented himself with writing essays and giving speeches. However, he chooses to devote part of his energy to supporting real change, via developing the political muscle of progressives.

I wonder if his overt disenchantment with Obama will spread to the black community, in general. That would be major, perhaps making it impossible for Obama to win re-election in 2012.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #506
566. Go back to Freeperville. You are full of it.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
315. "None of these people on the Left offer up any answers"....
So, the problem is the Left whose long list of excellent scholars, writers, thinkers, analysts, journalists haven't reached your radar, therefore in your mind, they haven't rendered alternative solutions to the myriad of problems that are of serious concern.

Hint: That list does not begin or end with Cornel West.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
255. Dr. West is a "Keyboard Warrior?"
:eyes: You've gotta be joshing me... You cannot be serious.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
209. How do you refute opinions not tied to particular facts?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
69. Just where are you sitting right now??
NOT behind your computer I'm sure! :rofl:

Well, it seems from all you say that the president won't need people like West or those dreadful liberals who were mainly responsible for him getting to the WH last time. Has he made some new, more important friends in your opinion that he can count to work for his reelection and to vote for him? I wonder how many Republicans will appreciate all he has done to bend over backwards to show how bi-partisan he was? Do you think getting a lot of what they wanted from this WH will translate into votes for Obama? If so, then he won't need the 'left' I guess.

I hope he's not depending on people like you to campaign for him though. If I were given to speculating about such things, I would almost think you were working against him, so effective are you at turning people off this President. I mean we judge people by the company they keep as much as anything else, don't we?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
87. Geithner and Summers are "dramatic change?" West is a "little" man?
OMFG. The first is OMFG ROFL, the second is OMFG, what sort of criteria does one have to have to call Cornell West a "little" man?

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
107. Hmm.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
145. the trouble is that Obama is NOT working to change anything
so many times we find him on the other side. That's why we complain. Obama was supposed to be leading the charge, not fighting for the other side or refusing to fight against the other side.

And for myself. Unfortunately, I spent much of the day cutting the grass and very little of it writing about how disgusted I am with Obama.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #145
261. We who voted for him thought we'd have a President who would Lead...Democratic Party...
But..then..so many of us thought we'd been working as Democrats to support Democratic Ideals against the Bush Years...that we got so caught up in Party...we missed that "Dem Party" had long ago changed.

It just wasn't what we thought it was. We thought we voted for "change from Repug Policies"...we didn't realize what really was going on...under the surface.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #261
319. We didn't expect Obama to throw the game to the other team right off the bat
Geitner, Summers, Bernacke before he even took office.
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #319
555. +1
n/t
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #145
312. +1000 nt
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
174. Well put!
you saved me the trouble of a long reply, and said it better anyway.

I'd only add that one sentence sets the tone "even at this moment, when the empire is in deep decline, the culture is in deep decay, the political system is broken..." Whether that's Obama's doing or not, I'm inclined to think that the "empire" seriously needs to go, the sooner the better. As far as the decay of the culture, what I see in decay is what might well be called "imperial culture", the racist exceptionalist rotten-to-the-core old flagellents of reaganism. Good riddance. You could say legitimately that the political system is broken, but that's an old story, and I think Obama has gotten more work out of the creaky old wreck than anyone ever expected.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
218. I take it you don't know much about
Cornel West, if you question "What the fuck has West done to advance his ideology over the years outside of bashing the President of the United States?". He has been around a long while and he's only recently been "bashing the President of the United States"... he did campaign for Obama, after all. Keep in mind as well, that he's an academic through and through, so he chooses his words carefully.

I refer you to his Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West


The rest of your rant has really no connection to anything i'm seeing on this thread...

:shrug:


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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #218
377. Princeton, eh? West is obviously conspiring with Krugman!!!!!
Edited on Tue May-17-11 12:42 AM by JVS
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
275. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Exactly right...
And if there's one thing we should have learned over the past few years is that noise doesn't make you big, nor does it make you right... and ballistic only really means you have little to no self control.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
158. Cornell West has an enormous ego. Likely angry because he does not
get an invite to the White House every month to have lunch with and chat up President Obama. West looks at an over sized portrait of his self assigned importance.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #158
178. West has
issues with Obama for appointing Larry Summers, who he had a beef with nearly a decade ago.

His criticism is based on who Obama chose for his administration. Why is West still going on about Summers who is no longer with the administration?

More evidence that it's personal.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #178
190. Summers let West walk from Harvard University instead of giving in to West. nt
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
504. You may be right, Cornell West (whoever he is) may be irrelevant.
Cornel West however... Now, for some one who is supposedly so "irrelevant," some posters here do seem to have their panties twisted all in a wad over his "irrelevant" statements. I found it fascinating.

Esp. the accusations about his "ego" and personality traits, given that you don't know him personally... me thinks some of your characterizations of Prof. West are more projection driven ad hominems than actual representation of fact.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
533. now, i'm no master debater but...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. k/r rec.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Cornel got something right.......
Edited on Mon May-16-11 03:52 PM by FrenchieCat
for once when he said.....“I have to take some responsibility.....I could have been reading into it more than was there.”

Well, duh! :eyes:


I'll be glad when folks realize they aren't and never will get a custom-made President that does everything as they decide while they micro-manage his every move meanwhile denying the political realities of this country as it is. Those who even believed that Pres. Obama was going to be their personal President in shining armour ready to deliver to their doorsteps their every wants for just a little bit...fooled themselves, and then hurt us further by getting mad at this President, instead of lifting a finger and showing up in Town Halls. That's what happens when folks believe that simply voting in one election is somehow gonna do the trick, and talk about what the President had promised without mentioning that he consistently stated that he would need the people's help...not only their foot up his ass.

That being said, I don't think we will ever have a shortage of folks who reside in a neat-ass world where vague idealistic pronouncements make for a Eutopian imagined reign while ignoring the fucked up world we actually live in .....where harsh political realities of differing ideology, manipulated by the ruling class of money coupled with their powerful corporate media, rules.

It is not the President who gets to decide how much gas will cost, or how many folks will be fired and hired from private jobs....or even public jobs....and in fact, if Pres. Obama would have gone socialist crazy on the asses of those who do decide, I don't believe we'd be in any better shape.....except that in 2012, you'd be looking at an Obama replacement, by the time the Media got done with him.

But of course, those who do not want to understand the true limitations of anyone's power, also have come to believe that, by magic, giving the President a swift kick in his pants is going to give him the power to go up against the all-powerfuls and win without even a struggle...without even their help!

That's why folks like Cornel West are ridiculous to me. They talk a lot about what should be done, without ever acknowledging that they know themselves to be full of shit, in that they do not know what would truly happen if their "Dreams" would be pushed at full roar by this President. All that would happen is that the push back would be so hard, most of us would right now be mad about how this President fucked up and should have done it another way. In otherwords, this President will never win with those who just refuse to comprehend that it ain't only about what one wants, but what is possible to get done in the currently toxic poisoned political atmosphere. But it's nice for some to believe they have all of the answers, even when they know damn well that they are lying to themselves and to everyone else in terms of how they would get it done. If they really believed that they had all of the answers, they'd be running for office or something.....cause how can you say you know exactly what to do, when you ain't doing it?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. I love Harry Belafonte's response to Obama, recounted on Amy's show today.
But he once said something to me during his campaign for the presidency, and he says—he said, you know—I said, "I’ve heard you"—he was talking before businessmen on Wall Street here in—there in New York. And he said to me—I said, "Well, you know, I hope you bring the challenge more forcefully to the table." And he said, "Well, when are you and Cornel West going to cut me some slack?" And I got caught with that remark. And I said to him, in rebuttal, I said, "What makes you think we haven’t?" And the truth of the matter is that we were somewhat contained even at the extent to which we criticized him during the campaign, in the hopes that it would energize his capacity to get elected and that, once he was elected, that burden would be off his back and he would use this new platform to do things other than what we have been experiencing. And I think any further retreat from bringing truth to power and forcing him to hear the voice of the people would be a disservice to this country and all that it promises to be.

* * *

The fact of the matter is, both Belafonte and West have been working for the least of us more years than Barack Obama will even be in politics. Just because you don't know anything about them (which is sad enough) doesn't mean they haven't worked their asses off or that they don't continue to work their asses off despite a White House who jilted both of them for Goldman Sachs.

* * *

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Amy aired the interview today.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/16/sing_your_song_harry_belafonte_on

But maybe you could instruct me on how to plan to repurpose items to achieve the maximum effect. :hi:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Maybe,
but the quote aired four months ago.

Nothing wrong with Belafonte telling the story again, but it's not like this is a recent event. In fact, it wasn't recent when he told it in January.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. 'Way to go off topic. Well done. n/t
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
143. want to "fan the flames" then hey-look at what the Pres. ISN'T doing today
knowing he's smarter, much smarter, than the last guy. You're too dogmatic when it comes to those who criticize Obama, relax, he can take it.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #143
173. "relax, he can take it."
So can West. "Relax."



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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. The political reality remains......
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:08 PM by FrenchieCat
And if you think that Belafonte and Cornell West will be remembered in the history books for what they "did" for us, and somehow that will overshadow what Barack Obama has accomplished...then there is nothing that I can say to you....because your mind was most likely made up only a few months after the election (as I recall you being consitently anti-Obama for a long time now)....or even months before.

Harry Belafonte broke color barriers while making movies, and has been a voice in the civil rights movement for many years. He is much older than Barack Obama, and was singing before Barack Obama was born. I won't take that away from him.....but he will not eclipse this President on any front...other than singing (although Obama has 2 grammys...but well).

As for Mr. West, he talks a great socialistic rant......but at the end of the day, most of what he espouse will never happen.....because this country is and has been a capitalist country for a long time.....and it will not fold on that front while the 1st African-American President is in office. It will not be said that after 200+ years of this Republic, it was a Black man who changed the very fabric of this country. Sorry, y'all gonna have to find a white guy to get that job done. Good luck!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. If you believe Harry Belafonte and Cornel West won't be remembered by history
for all they have done for us, I don't know what to say to you. :)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #40
409. Yeah, that was a bit over the top there
You gotta admire the tenacity she has. She lets no critical things in.
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #40
440. +1
:rofl:
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. It's true that elected Presidents have more power than professors & calypso singers.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:28 PM by Dr Fate
Presidents also have more power to actaully make changes than DUers, hairdressers, car mechanics and most other people.

Was this fact ever at issue? Yes- Obama has more power and influence than his critics. How does this make any given criticism unwarranted?

The issue for me is whehter West's criticisms have merit, not who has the most power to make the most change- obviously that is Obama.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
64. Is that true?
The people who made the Montgomery bus boycott work were mostly very low income working people.

The people who made the Freedom Rides work and who brought about divestment in South Africa were mostly college students.

And that calypso singer along with a ball player, Jackie Robinson, put together a program to sponsor US college education for promising students from Africa -- one of whom was Barack Obama Sr.

So, I tend to think that ordinary people have much more power and influence in the long run than any politician who gets caught up in the petty political "realities" of the moment.

:)
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. In each case, they had to demand and then wait for politicians to follow thier lead.
Yes- Cornell could influence Obama, and apparently he tried.

That is my point- he can only do so much, which is why it is a non-argument to suggest that West is off-base unless he does more or just as much as someone who holds elected power.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. Looking at it from another angle, social movements transcend
and outlive political personalities and elected terms. It's really politicians that are hampered and limited by their own relatively small sphere of influence.

It's like the different between the waiter who brings you dinner and the cooks who have been elbow deep in it for one, two or more days. You recognize the waiter, may know his name, you sit in his section if you like him. But he'd have nothing to bring out without all those people working in the background. He is not indispensable but they are. There is a lot of visible ritual around what he does but the truth is, if he decamps and someone else works that section, it won't make much difference.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. Good points. I think we are basically on the same page. n/t
n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #88
109. I think we are.
I have to admit that for several years, I thought Howard Zinn was wrong about who did what and how important it was, though. :)
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
75. Well, they certainly won't be remembered for all the people they
had killed. Like Obama will.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. Comes with the job one takes as President already engaged in two wars at the time.....
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:05 PM by FrenchieCat
Just call him a baby killer and get on with it!
and then understand that every President this country has had,
the same can be said about them!


That's part of the problem with many.....
“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.”
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #79
129. Those lucky to still draw breath can complain, criticize and condemn

As an American I am free do this, in fact, I believe it is a right and a duty.

however, I don't appreciate being called a fool.

"3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum."

No matter what mess a president walks into, there is always a choice. He could have chosen peace. The international community was prepared for him to do so and precipitously awarded him a Nobel Peace Prize. Instead he engages our country into a 3rd war and wreaks violence upon other countries that we have not been officially at war with. You apparently are fine with this state of affairs. I think this says more about you than the epithet you have directed towards me.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #129
135. Don't take Ben Franklin's quote so personally,
Edited on Mon May-16-11 06:23 PM by FrenchieCat
if it doesn't apply. :eyes:

as for what Barack Obama should have done......
that's easy to say....as long as you aren't accountable
for any of it...which you aren't.

I'm not just fine with the state of affairs,
although I feel much better about those affairs then when
there were being handled by the gigantic asshole who got to serve 8 years right prior,
as well as the serial adulter who served 8 years before that.

After 16 years of assholes who gutted financial regulations, gave away human rights via DOMA and DADT, outsourced our jobs, allowed the telecommunications industry (read cable) to run wild, started two wars, allowed unprecedented attacks on our shores (without even paying a political price), and gutted our economy.......Pres. Obama is not even given 2.4 years (cause the banshis have been screetching at him since day one) to straighten out the fucked up shit....all the while crazy MOFOs wanting the world to be turned upside down literally or those who want to take it back to the 1920s (both who hate everything and anything that this man has done to date) shouting at him from every fucking directions without ever giving him a hands up at any point, while acting like everything he has done is worse than what 16 years of assholes did to this country? And you think that's the way to go???? Well, I say....Fuck that.

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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #79
186. Murder is OK. Everyone does it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #75
410. Obama will be remembered for one person he had killed
A scary boogieman Muslim Bin Laden. That is why he will be President again in 2012, though I don't think he deserves it or will do any better job than he has. So for those of you who think this politics thing is a sporting event, the game has already been called in 2012. Go out and get some air.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
85. The political reality remains that Obama freely choose Geithner, Summers, Vilsack,
to reappoint Bernake, to go with oil industry lackey Salazar to a department known to be captured and all the rest of his right wing to corporate cabinet.

Obama helped to build his "political reality" and to allow corporate entities to fuck us with no Vaseline, to stand by with his thumb up his ass as BP poisoned the Gulf, and to continue to erode civil liberties in a fashion that would make Bush blush.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #85
97. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #85
156. You said it. Except for Bush. He wouldn't blush. Mass murderers don't blush.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
93. Damn right. It was Lincoln who freed the slaves -
what did that Tubman woman ever do?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #93
101. What Harriet Tubman do was called activism........
She didn't sit around running her mouth yelling
to others as to what they should do for her,
that's for damn sure.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. So if Cornell had said all this while leading a massive march, all would be cool?
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:41 PM by Dr Fate
But since he was "sitting around" (and not on a bus), then no comparison to real activists like Tubman.

If he was risking arrest or otherwise engaged in Tubman style activism to make this point, my guess is the "centrists" would still be attacking him.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #104
119. What has Cornell done while sitting around, exactly?
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:55 PM by FrenchieCat
and why are you calling people that disagree with your premise that Cornell West is correct in his opinionated pronouncement.... "Centrists"?

I don't see myself calling you names simply due to some of your opinions.

I agree with some of what Mr. West has stated about a lot of things over the years....
but that doesn't make him my master of all thoughts.

I don't think he is being fair in this case, because he refuses to acknowledge any limitation that Pres. Obama has, and includes only one sentence in where he takes responsibility for his own action
in that perhaps he projected all of his "wants" since Bush swore the oath (twice) to get done pronto...onto Barack Obama...and then got "disappointed quicker than quick" at every turn that
wasn't a turn that he fully agreed with....and he did all of this without making the honest assessement that a country that would have a President like Bush for 8 fucking years,
is not the same country that would allow positive change to take place with amazing speed.

If it was up to Cornel West, Banks would have been nationalized, the Dow would have remained at 7000,
unemployment would be 15% just for college grads, the Deficit would be twice as high, and Barack Obama being called a socialist and a radical would be totally accurate, and the "Centrists" that you so look down on but determine election results would have Barack Obama ready to do an LBJ re-election campaign.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #119
132. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #132
146. The difference is that no one kisses my ass.....and pays me for it.
There is nothing wrong with what Cornel West does for a living;
he just isn't right about everything simply because he is Cornel West....
especially his contention that his theories could be applied in the current political climate
without breaking too much of a sweat!

What is interesting is that White extreme Left leaning Liberals appear to worship him
much more than do most of the African-American population which he professes to speak for.
I guess when one has had to fight for 235+ years for any modicum of respect in this country,
one becomes a bit more pragmatic and deliberate in how one goes about actually solving the problems that Mr. West constantly writes about. When one has to confront an actual body called congress and a bunch of pack dogs called our press, prior to getting very much done, perhaps those really really good sounding theories don't transfer as well as some who won't bother to think that far might believe.

From where I sit, West is a philosopher of the Socialist Left (and ain't nothing wrong with that),
and that is exactly how I react to his writing.....none of it is all correct, and none of it is all wrong......as I am educated as well, and have my own point of view. I don't believe that anyone
that would have gotten into office in 2008 would have been able to achieve the perfect changes
on issues that Cornel West has been complaining about forever. That's my point....
that although Mr. West admits that perhaps even he, the great scholar, didn't do his
homework on who he was supporting back then, he won't admit to the fact that no single person in
2.4 years would have ever been able to achieve what Mr. West argues should have been achieved.
No one.

As for who these centrists are, you've called a few here that,
and I'm don't think that this is what they are....simply because
you call them that.

As for "you guys"....I don't know if thats the same thing as "you people" or somehow it is a
gentler and kinder approach to the same thing.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #104
149. My guess is you're absoluetly right.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. Wrong. Harriet Tubman ran her mouth plenty
which is how we know what she thought and said.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. +1,000,000 n/t
n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #108
120. She wrote her autobiography.......
which was a story of what she DID......
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. Writing an autobiography is an action.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 06:07 PM by EFerrari
And since you've admitted that you don't know anything about Cornel West and what he has done, it's an unlovely line of argument especially when put together with the anti-intellectual, anti-education aspect of the whole thing.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #123
130. LOL!
I have met Cornel West. I have never said I don't know anything about him.
and the rest of your sentence is not applicable in my case.....
Correctly Cornel West is a scholar, not a saint.
That's my point. He can tell folks what they should have done or should be doing
all day long till he is blue in the face, but that doesn't mean that he has all of
the answers, because he simply doesn't.

But who are you....his mom? :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. Does that chorus line of straw men sing or dance or do anything interesting at all?
:shrug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #131
141. Straw men......
Bumper sticker words that mean nothing at all.

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #141
414. No, actually it is a term discussing argument fallacies
or rather how to derail arguments without really answering the discussion at hand. Used when one has no cards left. It is poor form but very frequently used here.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #131
335. No. n/t
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #108
154. & Frederick Douglass was no activist either
he published a newspaper for cryin' out loud!

I'll give good odds he'd be a blogger in the present day: no longer a 'typeset warrior' but a 'keyboard warrior'.

Terrible, terrible thing.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #154
165. Why don't we throw in all of the Black people who ever did anything.....
of note at anytime in our history, and see how Mr. West stacks up?

I'm willing to do that.

Does Mr. West risk his life just for being who he is on a daily basis?
Did Mr. Douglass? Most likely.
Did Mr. West live at a time when Black people were considered property?
Did Mr. Douglass? Yes
Did Mr. West have to teach himself how to read and write because schooling
was not allowed in his time?
Did Mr. Douglass? Yes
Did Mr. West actually change anything?
Did Mr. Douglass? I'd say yes.

Comparing Cornel West to Frederick Douglass is really a strange thing.
They are both Black, but beyond that...not much is the same.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #165
198. I guess Obama was pretty happy with West
campaigning for him. He did not look in askance to his credentials. Until, of course, he stopped getting unqualified applause from him. Unconditional love is so hard to find!
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #165
375. WHO is throwing black people under the bus??
Not I. Not the poster who mentioned Harriet Tubman.

And you're still fuming, in this subthread, about something in a different subthread.
Which I answered.
Read it.
There.

In fact in this thread the only throwing of a black person under a bus is Dr. West by you and your pals.
And you didn't think he just needed some shade. :eyes:



What is wrong with you?



You have the nerve to say:

"Sometimes I wonder if those doing the name calling really have anymore integrity
than those whom they judge."


While you indulge in name-calling towards others on a very regular basis. Ponder upon that.

Don't believe me? Take a gander (random selection, this thread alone):

"(Harriet Tubman) didn't sit around running her mouth yelling
to others as to what they should do for her,
that's for damn sure." (Implying that is what Dr. West does).

"...hopefully this will bring about a revolution that will end with a socialistic eutopia (sic)..." (Snide comment disparaging Liberals on this site along with deriding 'Socialism!' You sure you're at the right site? Free Republic is over thata way ---->

"...it is much easier to be a victim..." (said regarding Dr. West)

"West has been shitting on Obama since..."

"West's fanboys and fangirls..." (Wow. Just wow. You, of all people, using "fanboys" and "fangirls"

"I don't have to give a fuck about you and what you think of me,
and truly I don't.

Now go back to the standard twisting truth via bias, exaggerating, hyperboling, (sic)
plain out lying, and living for the right to criticize in the negative!"


That last one. That is simply rich. And you bawww about "name calling"?! :wow:


In all those words, you did get one thing partially right, sans the "whining" snark:

"...the worse the President, the louder the whining can get...."



Congrats


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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #375
418. You forgot to mention that she believes herself to be a left liberal,
which means, she's under the bus with the rest of us. She's cheering for someone who just isn't that into her. Oh, sure, he was in 2008, he had an army of liberals ready to change the world. Still waiting. The shade under the bus is nice, though. And there are some really great people under here, interesting people of all sorts of colors and creeds.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #165
417. You totally missed the point
I'll spell it out. It isn't the color, it's what constitutes activism. He was a publisher. Likely, today, he would be a blogger. That was the point. Three years ago, I would have agreed that keyboard activists aren't activists, but I've seen the tectonic shift. They will lead the revolution. Just as Mr. Douglass would in his day.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #165
471. This attempt to deny a voice to West is getting pretty icky.
You also manage to defame Douglass and Tubman in the process, who -- guaranteed -- would have been right alongside West in protesting the vacuity and deception of Obama's "change."

Anyway, how does he stack up against Jesus? Because that West, he should just shut up!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #108
332. I was just thinking that, thanks for saying it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #108
412. And thank goodness for that
She was a remarkable woman.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #101
148. So what Dr. West is doing/has done isn't activism?
Edited on Mon May-16-11 06:47 PM by Cherchez la Femme
it's "sit(ting) around running 'his' mouth yelling
to others as to what they should do for 'him'" (gender change)?

And last week I saw Gandhi and MLK disparaged and belittled on this very site.
My dear God, is there anybody you people won't throw under the bus?


My dearest wish, for damn sure, is that some stout soul, one who can sit through years of all this malarkey, will look up and repost these defenses of this president's actions when the next (Republican) president is criticized for similar or exact same things!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #148
166. Now we are comparing West to Gandhi and MLK! OMFG!
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #166
358. Your reading comprehension needs vast improvement, or is it conflation?
Or deliberate, knowing conflation and hoping nobody would notice or figure it out?

First paragraph dealt with your comment/post pseudo-authoritatively defining what an activist really is.

New, second paragraph disgustedly observes how at least one DUer belittled said historic (y'know, old-timey) gentlemen. New sentence, query actually, wondering if there was anyone y'all wouldn't throw under the bus.

My post is regarding the types of people y'all willy-nilly chuck under passenger lorries. And while my post did indeed infer that Dr. West was indeed an activist, the correlation was not made that he was an activist of the Gandhi or MLK caliber.
You, as is your wont, used your exaggeration conflation to read that in and go off on it:
"OMFG!"
so as to heighten your ever-present poutrage in defense of The Precious.

There, and still here I will aver since Dr. West is under there along with Dr. King and Mr. Douglass, yes there is comparison between the men in terms of their fellow company under that Big Bus, made from some old Tent;
but that is as far as these posts go.
--but you keep exaggerating away: Maybe someday, somehow, you'll actually fool somebody!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
122. The president is middle-aged, he's not a kid.
I'm not sure Belafonte was singing professionally before he was born. But so what, what does that have to do with anything?

Being remembered in history should not be the goal of politicians. Nor is it always a good thing. HOW you are remembered is what counts. I mean, while they are recognized by history, who cares much about Millard Fillmore eg?

We do remember Jefferson and Washington and Lincoln. But they did some great things. That is what gets a president more than just recognized in history.

People know more about civil rights activists eg, than they do about many presidents. Ask any high school kid who they know more about, Fillmore or MLK.

But is any of this important? I hope not. I would like to think people are focusing on the job they were elected to do, not on how they will go down in the history books.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #122
150. Twistin'.........
Harry Belafonte was born in 1927.
Harry Belafonte was the greatest Calypso star with his first hit in 1949.....
He was best known for his "Banana Boat Song" with its signature lyric "Day-O..

Barack Obama was born in 1961.

No one said that Barack Obama's "goal" was to be remembered in history...
so, I'm not sure why you are commenting as you are about this.

As for remembering who....I don't care if you will choose to not remember Pres. Obama....
for doing great things, as history (thank Goodness) does not rely on your go ahead.

I fear too that in 20 years, when asking high school kids about Barack Obama vs. Cornel West vs. Harry Belafonte, you won't be happy with the answer that they will give. Hell, you can ask them
right now. :rofl:

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #150
199. Actually I don't really care who people remember, that is not my
business. But some people seem to care which is why I commented on it.

President Obama is not, so far, a 'great president'. He has yet to do something that would make him stand out in history as one of the greatest. In fact some of the things he has done may not help his historical record, especially if this country ever returns to being a true democracy where the rule of law actually matters.

To be great means having courage to stand up against, sometimes, pretty strong opposition. So far, he's been pretty much status quo with the excuse being that he actually cannot stand up because he 'can't win'. But until someone stands up they don't know if they can win. So it's a weak position to take and puts him so far, among the average presidents we've had, mostly not a risk taker which is unfortunate as we need that kind of courage on some pretty big issues right now.

He still has time and may surprise us, but as of now, he's about average, I guess.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #199
222. Ok....
Edited on Mon May-16-11 08:22 PM by FrenchieCat
The first Black President who not only saved the auto industry, saved the fucked up economy from a total meltdown, provided health care reform (even if you don't like it, it was something not done without the lack of trying for a long, long time), signed financial reform (even if you didn't think it went far enough, so what else is new?), drew down our troups in Iraq (even if not all are gone...they aren't gone from Germany and Japan either), reversed DADT, and caught Bin Laden while presiding during the Awakening of the ME...all in 2.4 years (so he ain't even fucking done)....
But yeah.....not done enough like those White Presidents who are called great like Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton and shit......
Gotcha! :thumbsup:



:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #222
240. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #240
256. That's what you say from your chair......
You must have been on the "Let's nationalize all of the Banks,
and fake like we're Sweden" bandwagon that had no wheels....

as for what I am.....please speak for yourself and leave me alone.

Thanks!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #256
262. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #262
274. Well, you can think that......
That's the beauty of an internet board.....
I don't have to give a fuck about you and what you think of me,
and truly I don't.

Now go back to the standard twisting truth via bias, exaggerating, hyperboling,
plain out lying, and living for the right to criticize in the negative!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #222
288. I think it's very unfair of you to focus on his race. One of the many
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:23 PM by sabrina 1
things that attracted me to him was his insistence on moving beyond race. In that regard, he was way ahead of where both he, and I know now, I, thought the country was. But his sentiment was correct.

In fact, he and Ron Paul agree on the fact that race should no longer even be a factor. But we have found out that to far too many people it still is. His and Paul's idealistic (and mine I have to admit)view that the race issue has been settled, was pretty idealistic, but still admirable imho. We'll get there, when people no longer feel the need to use the words 'white' or 'black' to identify another person. I know Obama thought we were already there and so does Paul and to a great extent, so did I. Maybe because theirs and my experiences were different from the average persons.

I'm sorry the color of the president's skin means so much to you. It's disappointing. I am grateful for my background which allowed me to never really see skin color, or ethnicity or sexual orientation or age as factors in judging human beings. But just the fact that you felt the need to identify those men by their skin color shows how wrong Obama and I were and how far we have to go yet. I also wish I had not found that out, and I imagine it has not been a good thing for the president to discover either. He judged others based on his own experiences, as I did. And it makes me sad to have learned how wrong we were.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #288
304. The issue is whether he will get into the history books......
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:35 PM by FrenchieCat
and he will, and that will be one of the reasons....
and too fucking bad that as a Black person, I can say this President is Black!
and yes....for me and my descendents and my heirs, it's a BFD!
Sorry for you and your sadness!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #304
365. Of course he'll get into the history books, he's a US president.
And if his ethnicity is not a big deal for him, it IS sad that that may be the most important thing he is remembered for. Because that is NOT what he wanted. Hopefully in the not too distant future, it won't be a big deal and he will be remembered for his accomplishments and/or non-accomplishments, just like everyone else.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #304
423. It would have been a thousand times better had he been a good President
Don't worry, unless he does something much worse than he has of yet, history will be kind to our first Black President. I just hope our second one is strong and fiery and shows the strength of his convictions.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #222
420. He didn't catch him, he had him killed
Ergo, he will win in 2012, so you can stand down.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #222
429. That isn't even close to being the same
Edited on Tue May-17-11 05:43 AM by JonLP24
Iraq and Germany with Japan. People in the Army re-enlist just so they can be stationed at Germany or Japan. Most people I talk to had a blast in Germany, can't say the same thing about Iraq. In Germany you can leave the base and drive to Paris or wherever. You can't leave the fobs in Iraq unless it is your mission and if you leave the wire you have to put on full battle rattle with your weapon on "amber". In Germany you can wear civilian clothes outside the bases. You can drink in Germany. You can't drink in Iraq. In Germany you obey the the local laws and you can be tried by the German courts. That doesn't apply at all in Iraq. You get dwell time for time spent in Iraq, you get no dwell time for time spent in Germany because it would be really stupid to give dwell time in Germany. You're not in a fucking war in Germany. Some people I knew that went to Germany bought BMWs and since the Army covers the cost of your move, you can get it imported for FREE!! So you can get a great deal on a BMW if you buy it Germany. You can't buy cars in Iraq.

Anyways your argument would of been fine if you left out that part. That is an "apples and oranges" argument if I ever saw one. Should of just left it at that, that they are drawing down and they are. I seen an article that the Burger Kings, Subways, Starbucks, Green Beans(they make better coffee than Starbucks), and other places of businesses are leaving the fobs.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #150
419. Day o, I would guess
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #122
370. Actually, he was. The Banana Boat Song was a HUGE hit in 1956.
Obama wasn't born until '61.

For whatever relevance that may have...
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #370
523. Yes, I have been informed of that. He is a wonderful
humanitarian. I wasn't aware he was as old as he is, he seems ageless and I hope he goes on for a long time, doing the good work he does.

Thanks for the response. :-)
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
72. +1 Thought of that line, too. Thank heaven for Belafonte and West. n/t
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:54 PM by RufusTFirefly
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
78. Obama did a lot before he got into politics and he will after
and will be more effective in bringing about positive change than Belafonte or West.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. It's true that elected Presidents have more power than professors & calypso singers.
True even after they leave office- as they have more access to media and those holding power.

Yes- politicians-especailly Presidents of the USA, have more power to make direct change than do professors and calypso artists.

We could say that about almost any un-elected voter who has any criticism of any politician.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. Belafonte was instrumental in getting Obama's dad to the US.
I think Obama will have a hard time topping that.

lol

And no, he didn't do a lot before politics. He did what students on his track do. Everyone I went to grad school with did as much if not more in most cases.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
92. Thank you and 2nd all of that to the nth power (n/t)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
139. + 300 million
"...a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats. And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it." -- Cornel West

He also said:

"Who wants to be well-adjusted to injustice? What kind of human being do you want to be?"

Wish I'd written both.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
238. Wow! comments by Cornell ... but I was also watching BELAFONTE tonight on Amy Goodman...!!
And, rightly so, Belafonte was encouraging people to speak out if they felt

Obama deserved criticism -- that it was the patriotic thing to do -- and that

the furture of our nation depends on it --

And this by Cornell is so sadly true --

Here we were in '06 with Pelosi proclaiming the morning after the election that

"Democrats were elected to end the war!" -- and then they refunded them for another two years!

And here we are with Obama now and wars raging for 10 years!!

And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it.”

And questions of torture and wiretapping still hanging --


“When you look at a society you look at it through the lens of the least of these, the weak and the vulnerable; you are committed to loving them first, not exclusively, but first, and therefore giving them priority”

More than ever we need a humanist in the White House --


I think it is correct that both of them have spoken out suggesting they need to take

this "responsibility" -- I'd like to see Michael Moore acknowledge that, as well!!

Truth is you can only really be betrayed by those closest to you -- !!



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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
279. I listened to that Belafonte interview tonight. It's well worth watching..
in so many ways.

I don't think that Obama really identfies with Civil Rights Movement or Black people or agrarian people ...because he grew up so internationally. I think he thinks of himself as "generic."

The mistake many made was thinking that he had an empathy with us. He's too international in his perspective to not look at everything globally and not to see the United States as just part of "Multi-National Global Initiatives" to keep Economies of the World thriving.

He grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii. It's a very different identity than older people like Cornell West or Harry Belafonte can identify as to their early upbringing.

Obama didn't experience "Old South Parents" who dealt with Racism and Discrimination. He doesn't have a heritage of that. He really cannot understand it the way that those older than him who grew up in segregated circumstances can. And what the fight was to overturn Segregation...but the heritage of those years.

Obama is a Globalist Child. Of the New World of International Connections as the way the World will move forward. America is not a large piece of the new world (population wise or economically) that is coming with the new global order challenge.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #279
371. Both Belafonte and West are involved with the pan Africa movement
in its several incarnations. It made them more connected to people, not to capital.

It's funny how different people make different choices when presented with similar opportunities. :)
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
284. I don't think that Obama really identfies with Civil Rights Movement or Black people or Agrarian
People..

I watched that interview and it was excellent.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
362. +1 million
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
411. Nice post.
Thank you.
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
543. "What makes you think we haven’t?"
Great line. Belafonte's the real deal, too.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. Ouch.
True, but ouch.

I'm a little surprised that people just fawned all over Obama with such little skepticism, that they projected onto him what they wanted him to be like. As an early Biden supporter, I considered Obama a lightly preferable alternative to Clinton, but a bit too moderate. But then again I was listening to what he actually said. After Bush and Bush and (yes) after Clinton, I've learned my lesson--only an idiot fails to minutely parse the words of a candidate for any possible nuance of deception. Insert Santayana quote here.

They all play this game; arguing about what the meaning of is is didn't go away with Clinton. I mean, shit, he ran on "Hope" and "Yes, We Can"--and then everybody forgot those were the exact same themes Clinton won on. Obama didn't get into the White House by being original, he got there by running the best at playing a very well established game plan. And now, as long as people are losing their memories, they're forgetting all the good Obama's done in the last 2½ years. Even your favorite dog is gonna shit on your rug sometimes, but Obama's done an incredible job of cleaning up the crap Bush left on the walls.

Cornell West and every other one of my fellow liberals needs to thank their lucky stars they got duped by Obama. Only they didn't "get duped" in reality; they played themselves for chumps.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
317. That's crap -- that's blaming the victim. Obama promised a lot of
specifics that he reneged on:

public option for health care,

ending the war in Iraq (not leaving 50K troops),

a "transparent" White House (hell, he won't even show Bush's visitor's record),

passing the Employee Free Trade Act,

marching with the Union when collective bargaining is taken away,

etc.

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. "But it became very clear when I looked at the neoliberal economic team."
- That's when I smelled a rat as well. Arguments supporting "pragmatic politics" be damned. Eventually one must stand for something......



K&R
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
227. I never take anyone seriously who uses the term "Neoliberal" nor should anyone else
but if that floats your boat, have at it.

It's always nasty to use a term to describe people that is not used by the people so described, i.e. I have never heard anyone describe themselves as "a neoliberal". So right off the bat, anyone who uses it is being extremely rude.

That is besides the fact that half the people who use the term in the US don't know the correct meaning of the word and use it as a meaningless pejorative for anyone who isn't as Liberal as they are.

West's assertion that he was worried about the decision to support Obama when Obama was selecting his cabinet and team is another reason to discount his criticisms IMHO. Generally, I give someone a chance to govern before I start criticizing them. Again, that may just be me and there is one exception to that rule. If you steal an election.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #227
247. ....
"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that." ~ http://www.whirledbank.org/ourwords/summers.html">Lawrence Summers, Chief economist of the World Bank in an internal memo, 12 December 1991


- This is a Neoliberal. A wonderful chocolatey coating outside, and deadly putrid cancer on the inside......
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #227
297. It makes no difference whether or not neoliberals label themselves as such.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:35 PM by girl gone mad
Policymakers who support and implement neoliberal policies are by definition neoliberals, much as the person who exhibits all of the characteristics of a sociopath is a sociopath, regardless of whether they self-identity as one.

This is a real economic ideology with well-defined points of view. Deregulation, privatization, free trade, deficit reduction, excessive emphasis on financialization and low corporate tax rates are all hallmarks of neoliberalism. This administration has very consistently worked toward or expressed support for each of these goals.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #297
367. You clearly do not understand what I was saying. n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #367
509. Neither does the rest of The World (understamd what you are saying).
Perhaps you should re-think your position.


"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales


FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.
Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales sounds more like FDR than anyone in the Democratic Party Leadership.
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peace4ever Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #227
326. thats silly
sure we shouldn't use a classification for a set of characteristics, and established patterns of policy, and ideology, that is in widespread use because... you disagree with it?

:rofl:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #326
368. Yup.
:rofl:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #368
424. Well, then, I guess I will get your ire for continuing to call
Teabaggers, teabaggers, even when they realized it would be less problematic to call themselves teapartiers.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #424
561. You will be in the same category as those on the right who use similar tactics...
again, if that works for you, have at it.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #227
406. Why? Are you saying because people don't call themselves that,
they don't exist?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #227
451. "Rude"? What are we, Miss Manners here? It's been years now; was West WRONG?
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. Wow. I read the article and what is clear to me is that...
Cornell West is upset with the president because he got his little feelings hurt. He clearly thinks he should have been best buddies with the president. Obama wouldn't return his calls and wouldn't get him tickets to the inauguration so now West lashes out at him every chance he gets. I always thought his bizarre criticisms of the president were sour grapes and now I know they are. I guess if he can't get Obama's attention one way, he'll get it another.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. I don't think that was very fair
Dr. West did spend a great deal of time campaigning for Obama. I think that should at least rate a few tickets.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. What of people who agree with West on some level, minus any snubbing or hurt feelings?
What of people who happen to agree with some of what West expresses, not b/c they didnt get tickets, sour grapes, etc, but based on their economic situation?

What are some ways that we can trash and marginalize those people?
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
170. Easy: those are damn Libruls/Lefties who are unwanted & unneeded
in the new, *improved* Democratic Party.
Heck, even here I saw pronouncements how if 'the Democrats' got rid of their left wing they'd get more votes!

A little food for thought:
the new, *improved* Democratic Party is mistaken in at least one (LOL)of their gloating disparagements: there IS someplace for those damn Lefties to go ...they'd do well to recognize & remember that.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Can you possibly fit more off-topic ad hominem attacks into that many words?
Cornell West is upset with the president because he got his little feelings hurt. He clearly thinks he should have been best buddies with the president. Obama wouldn't return his calls and wouldn't get him tickets to the inauguration so now West lashes out at him every chance he gets. I always thought his bizarre criticisms of the president were sour grapes and now I know they are. I guess if he can't get Obama's attention one way, he'll get it another.


Jesus Christ, you're trying to overlay some sort of "jilted teenage lover revenge" motif on Cornell West? Do you realize how bizarre and unconvincing your statements reads to everyone else?

:shrug:

PB
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #47
175. I thinkit's the level they're in, which colors their perceptions
Somehow I don't think they're going to be asking either of us, nor any 'Lefty', to sign their yearbook...
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #175
338. Or let us borrow their dreamy lunchbox with the president's picture on it. n/t
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
239. +111
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
321. No where did I say he was acting like a jilted lover...
But, now that you mention it.... :shrug:
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
337. No. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #89
328. Save your armchair psychoanalysis for someone else...
I read the article and it is what it is.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
44. k&mfr
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. "Who the &$*# else 'ya gonna vote for, chumps?"
"Now excuse me while I appoint a commission to gut Social Security."
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Maybe
Cornel West will run?

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Too late now - the incumbent gets all of the cash
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:28 PM by MannyGoldstein
To the victor belong the spoils.

Which is why we're in the current situation, working Americans being mooned by the people we fought to elect. We're not needed anymore, they know they're safe.

We need to fire politicians who totally change course once elected. This "I suck less than the Republicans" crap has savaged our country.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Another
excuse for perpetual armchair quarterbacking. Spitballs from the sidelines and counting on someone else to be the savior.

Well, is West going to lead the movement or mount the revolution?



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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Since West cant defeat Obama in a primary, nothing he says has any merit.

And that goes for any other voter as well.

If you cant beat Obama in the primary or name someone who can, then your far-left opinions have no merit.
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TMED Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #59
266. West is helping organize a primary against Obama
Your post makes no sense, as it's written. I suppose what you meant is that somebody who can't successfully primary Obama can make no demands on him that Obama won't laugh at, unless he's already disposed in that direction. While that makes some sense, West is helping progressives organize against Dems. See newprogs.org, the website of the New Progressive Alliance (NPA).

The main goal of primarying Obama is not to defeat him, but rather to simultaneously weaken the corrupted, corporatist forces that Obama represents, as well as to strengthen and accelerate the growth of the NPA. Success for the NPA is defined in terms of the effect on its growth.

If, in the process of doing so, Obama is weakened and loses the general election, that will still not validate your claim. (Once again, your claim makes no sense, as written.) OTOH, if Obama still wins it all in 2012, as long as NPA growth is accelerated, that will still be a victory for the NPA.
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #59
379. It's a thuggish might makes right argument. n/t
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. Yup-Since West cant defeat Obama in a primary, nothing he says has any merit.
Iron-clad argument. Done.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #60
70. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
76. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #49
421. Exactly............nt
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #49
432. Cat Food Commission!..SQUAWK! nt
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
54. The Obama dilema was well described in Ellul's "The Political Illusion" decades ago.


The Political Illusion by Jacques Ellul, 1972, actually lays out exactly what we Obama supporters find holds today -- a change in the Leadership does not much impact the modern systems of national interests, governance and rule, which are rather managed by bureaucracies and layers of information control than span Presidencies and over-rule individual leadership decisions.

And share his conclusion that "all facets of political activity as we know it today are a kaleidoscope of interlocking illusions, the most basic of which are the illusion of popular participation, popular control, and popular problem-solving in the realm of politics."
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. And the bureaucracies are the corporate state. We don't really have a government.
We have the legislative arm of the corporate state apparatus. They're not governing. They're just plain stealing from us.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
61. That's the first alarm that went off for me as well.
Summers, Rubin, Geithner...... Before the election. I voted for him. I had no choice.

And it went downhill from there. Dr. West has a right to feel had. Nobody likes being played for a sucker.
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
66. Cornel West is my fucking hero
Edited on Mon May-16-11 04:55 PM by Ramulux
I dont think anything makes me angrier than seeing supposedly liberal people on this site bash him. It is so counter-productive and nonsensical its not funny.

Anyone who wants to defend Obama, should first have to defend his decision to appoint Geithner and Summers to his administration. It is a totally and completely indefensible thing to do and I cant understand why people are either unaware of it or just dont care.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. +1
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. So what heroic act has Cornel West performed?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. The same acts that any other non-elected voters perform?
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:27 PM by Dr Fate
Why does he have to perform "heroic acts" for people to admire and agree with him?

We ELECT politicians so that they can perform the "heroic acts"- ie pass bills, make laws, bring real change etc. At some point the issues are so large that much of what we can do is try to influence them- which West says he tried to do.

Maybe he made it all up.

West, like most of us, cannot really "perform acts" as to the budget and the economy- but he can try to influence politicians who can.

I see your point, but I admire plenty of people who are not in positions where they can "peform acts" on the same level as can a sitting President.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Poster called Cornel West his "fucking hero".......
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:30 PM by FrenchieCat
I'm just trying to ask poster what has West done that made him his hero.
This was a particular question asked by me to a particular poster based on what that
particular poster specifically stated..... :shrug:

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. I answered the question you asked. He perfomed the same acts that any good citizen voter does.
Which includes trying to influence politicans and using free speech to inform others.

It's more or less all that anyone can do, unless you hold elected power or billions of dollars.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #98
126. Well actually some folks do more in terms of directly affecting
the lives of others. Some take the revenue of books they have written,
and with such, put that money where their mouth is.

Harriet Tubman took the royalties of her book sales (her autobiography),
and established a home for the aged and the needy.

So yeah, some folks have done more than Cornel West....
and they didn't hold elected power or had hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #126
136. Don't be a hater, Frenchie. (nt)
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #136
151. I gave up asking you to do the same long ago.
:(
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #136
316. +++++++++! nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #126
137. West does very similar things. Then again, both are far left radicals.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 06:22 PM by Dr Fate
Far left, Radical Liberals like Tubman and West have both told their stories and they have both given money to good causes, and they have both served as heroes and role models.

GO FAR LEFT!!!!!!!!!!

Not that Obama has not done the same, he is certainly a hero to many (including me, on many levels)- and arguably has more opportunities to be heroic in a way that has impact. We never disagreed on that point.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #137
157. Sorry, but Cornel West ain't remotely at par with Harriet Tubman.....
not even kinda of close!

Harriet Tubman put her life at risk many, many times daily in a world
without laws to protect her, doing things that folks didn't want her doing.

The fact is that Barack Obama in a real way also does risk his life
(and the life of his family) daily due to who he is and what he is doing.
Sure, I don't think this will probably make your thought of the day
anyday....but he certainly has done just that.

I don't believe that quitting Harvard to go to Princeton has that same kind of risk involved...
but what do I know...right? :shrug:
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #157
538. You don't need to tear down West to build up Tubman.
You need to tear down west b/c he dared to express dissatisfaction with this admins economic conservatism aka centrism.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #98
230. A hero is something exceptional, not something that every other good anything does. n/t
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #90
428. That's kind of like asking why Ghandi is someones hero,
or Martin Luther King. Each person finds things admirable in a lot of people.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
95. He started fighting for civil rights when he was in high school.
Is that "heroic" enough for you? The Google has all kinds of information about Dr. West.

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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
96. Some people consider speaking truth to power openly to be a heroic act.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:35 PM by liberation
Also academic achievements can be heroic, or having fought for civil rights. Maybe?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #80
102. Telling the truth about a popular politician is pretty fucking heroic these days. nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
177. Lotsa medals to pin on just at DU then......
Cause most everyone trashes this President daily and many since day -1
...and not just at DU.
In fact, you ain't a kool kid if you don't trash the man.....
from where he was born, to how he got into college, to whether he dyes his hair to whether he
really supports Gay rights, to whether he is a corporatist oil thirsty baby killing war monger,
...and yet you've decide that this passes for heroic these days?
Oh brother! This is so groovy! :rofl:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #177
231. All of us, since we all criticized Bush when his popularity was over 50%. I dont buy it
I dont buy this patting ourselves on the back calling ourselves heroes for that with Bush and I dont give Obama critics hero status for doing it now.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #177
364. better to keep your eyes wide open than be blinded by that hopey chaangey thing..nt
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #80
106. Oh, you know...
Just the whole dedicating his life to spreading awareness of the plight of the poor and poverty-stricken people in this country. Educating our young people at some of the most prestigious universities in this country. Associating himself with numerous amazing organizations dedicated to addressing poverty and other issues facing working families. Going on major media outlets and using that air time to speak the truth. Also, his involvement in the civil rights movement.

But I guess that's not enough for you and I'm just a terrible person for putting this loser who has done nothing with his life up on a pedestal.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #106
115. Some hero. West is just a circus clown begging for a the pony he will never get. WAHHH!!!!!
Only far-left, clownish, freaky liberals would find any of that stuff "heroic".

In fact, this West fellow sounds like a mere "community organizer" to me.

*Drippy saracasm thingy goes here*
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #115
124. My sarcasm detector
has been getting very rusty recently and for a second I almost thought you were serious. The nonsense I hear from so many people on this site is destroying my ability to pick up on satire.
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #80
160. Sticking with his convictions...unlike the POTUS. n/t
eom
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #80
221. is that the new criteria for leveling criticism?
what a joke.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #80
318. Trufe to Powr...
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:56 PM by jefferson_dem
Or something.

Who gives a fuck if he's now resorting to repulsive babble...
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #66
260. +1
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #66
363. I respect Dr West and ALL that he has stood for over the decades
and I agree with everything he said. Can someone please tell me why we are in Afghanistan? . Now that Osama is dead, will we still be sending drones into Pakistan? Give me anyone who can put a muzzle on the rabid mit and the for profit wars and I'm in.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #66
425. Don't worry, Mr. West is a strong man and he is right
He'll be fine.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #66
426. Don't worry, Mr. West is a strong man and he is right
He'll be fine.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #66
456. The Enemies List gets longer & more ridiculous every day. Cornel West has "sour grapes?" Really?
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
67. Clearly he just wants a President Palin. He was used by Obama.
Use me once... shame on me.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
82. He clearly wants the Koch Brothers to have tax cut extensions too!
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:25 PM by Dr Fate
And unless we support centrism, that is exactly what they will get.

Folks- either you support centrist economic polices or Palin and the Koch Brothers will get you!!!!!!!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
91. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Sometimes I wonder about those who get to determine who has integrity......
Sometimes I wonder if those doing the name calling really have anymore integrity
than those whom they judge.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #94
103. That's a good question for you to ask considering
that you have attacked Cornel West over and over again on this board and apparently, without knowing anything about him.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #103
114. "without knowing anything about him."
Edited on Mon May-16-11 05:49 PM by ProSense
What do you know about him? What is the likelihood that West keeps this up and is taken seriously by most people?

What happens when he ends the charade or is unable to impact the debate because all he does is take pot shots?

In all likelihood both West and Belafonte will support Obama's re-election because they have no justifiable reason not to. West, in particular, is simple mouthing, as he once put it, "socratic" criticisms.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. LOL
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. Yeah, it's funny
Actually, it's really hilarious, especially the "I have really been misled at a very deep level" line.

Obama's primary opponent was Hillary Clinton, and after the dust cleared a lot of people wanted her to be VP. Bill Clinton was the last Democratic President. When did West envision that the Obama administration wasn't going to include Clinton people? West acknowledged it himself shortly after the election.

I was "misled." Give me a break!

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #121
188. ProSense, let me tell you what I think is really pissing Mr. West off--
Two reasons he can't really discuss, either--

1) I think he got shut down by the White House, and before that, by the Obama campaign because of the Al Sharpton FEC investigation. West had been the head of the exploratory committee, and had been a paid adviser of the campaign itself. The FEC went after the exploratory, and the campaign, because Sharpton didn't file his quarterly FEC reports--and then later claimed a fire had destroyed his records.

I remember that shortly after the inauguration, the FEC upheld the Sharpton fine on the 2004 campaign--a campaign that West had been an adviser on, and a campaign that had been primarily financed by the GOP operative, Roger Stone. I think Cornel took that personally--as if Obama should have been able to do something about the 300k fine. I wonder if West had to pay back anything...


2) Cornel West hates Larry Summers because he insisted that West produce scholarly works, and not rap albums. West took the appointment of Summers as a personal insult. West, of course, fled to Princeton rather than write...


Of course the Obama campaign wanted nothing to do with West--he'd worked with Sharpton and Stone in 2004 to muddy up the Democratic primary--it was smart of the President to never be seen with him...
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #188
273. Points for creativity to discredit Mr. West -
but a complete failure in execution. Mr. West is an excellent writer - check out http://www.amazon.com/Race-Matters-Cornel-West/dp/0807009725/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1305598079&sr=8-4 ...

But I would expect nothing less from an Obama supporter. Under the bus!
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #273
352. Thank you for making my point--
Race Matters was published in 1993. When Summers came to Harvard, he suggested that West had done little of note since.

And let's face it--I suspect most of the posters on this thread who claim to have 'read' West are talking about his liner notes for the Matrix.

I understand why President Obama might have wanted to give a wide berth to someone who was involved in a 2004 Presidential Campaign that was still under investigation by the FEC...
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #352
433. Re "still under investigation by the FEC" -
I'm not familiar with that - do you have a link so I can check it out? Thanks in advance.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #433
450. The investigation of Sharpton's 2004 bid--fine levied in April, 2009
http://www.fec.gov/press/press2009/20090430MUR_Sharpton.shtml

Now, given that West was the head of the exploratory committee, and an adviser to the campaign, can you understand why a 2008 presidential candidate might not want to talk to a person involved in a 2004 campaign that was under active investigation? FYI--that 285k was the settlement amount--Sharpton owed nearly 500k.

Further, the Exploratory Committee itself was under a Conciliation Agreement with the FEC....that was an entirely separate complaint investigated by the FEC, where Sharpton was fined (5.5k) and signed an agreement with the FEC regarding his campaign activities.

Here's the original complaint--remember--CORNEL WEST is the head of Sharpton's Exploratory Committee---

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:fvrlmm62H8EJ:nlpc.org/pdfs/Sharpton2-2-04.pdf+conciliation+agreement+fec+sharpton&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShE7GvzjLIeMkim16V0xX7l8ge5Az8sStyc3pJkecMP7oZvTxZxW-ibKwpFZP3IOYrSKb-fAy-vdeBQt4R3Esgm7Tceh4_FWPGOBnQwTfxxllGkaZZKa5uD_jjAt03OTsUJje4l&sig=AHIEtbSxFkI-LaiF9O9fnoRN8DiB0ZxSVw

Now, that's two separate matters West is involved in. With the FEC. With a presidential campaign. I wouldn't have touched him with a 10 foot pole.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #94
225. i can only speak for myself when i say i haven't murdered anybody with a drone attack
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TMED Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #225
251. I haven't murdered anybody, via any means, at all
I just wanted to make that clear!
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
99. K & R for Cornel West (n/t)
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
100. I (heart) Cornel.
:loveya:

He inspires me.
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Howler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
110. K&R
Obama is the BIGGEST disappointment in my entire political life.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
112. Lieberman was Obama's mentor? What? When? Where? how? Lieberman?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #112
138. Joe was Obama's mentor in the Senate. West has his facts straight. n/t
n/t
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #138
155. I did not know that. Wasn't questioning West, simply our national judgment.....
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #138
162. One of the most liberal Senators in the Senate is Rand Paul's mentor. nt
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
116. I have one question for Mr. West
Where was he when the Tea-baggers were screeching at all the Town Hall meetings?

Seems to me that if he wanted to ensure the President implemented a far left agenda by fiat, it seems to me that he should have been organizing liberals to scream like banshees at the Town Hall meetings....or maybe show up at the polls in November 2010.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #116
127. Where were you? I don't remember someone shutting them up.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #116
128. Cornel West has been organizing people to speak up for decades.
Hello, McFly?
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #128
168. Where are they? Where were they last November? Where was West leading up to the election.
West's persona as the angry, hyper firebrand makes his bo-ku money. President Obama has serious business to do in the name of the nation.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #168
182. Um, the progressive caucus did fine. Obama and the blue dogs lost
the independents, as it happens.

The Obama family's fortunes have looked up quite a bit since they set out to do "serious business in the name of the nation", just like all other presidential families, in case that's escaped you. And the word is is "beacoup".
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #182
193. Conquest is deep blue states. How manly and womanly. Like it or not,
the center is the most powerful voting block by a million miles. Let progressives try to win a free pretzel without the center and see how far progressives get.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #193
235. You speak as if continual caving to the right wing affects only progressives.
:)
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #235
249. Caving???
Yeah, that's why the racist ass-pickles in the Tea-bagger movement were so motivated...it was because the President "caved" to the right wing. It had absolutely nothing to do with the most comprehensive progressive bill passed and signed into law since the New Deal.

Just where in the hell does the responsibility of people like Cornel West begin?

I swear to God, if folks like West, and those Dems that can't help but crap on this President were in charge during the D-Day Invasion, they would have said; "well, we landed on the beach, that should do it...."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #249
444. The most progressive bills since the New Deal were passed by Lyndon Johnson,
not by Barack Obama. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you impugn anyone else.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #182
234. Ummmm
nice little bit of revisionist history. The "blue dogs" didn't lose because they were too conservative...THEY LOST BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH.

It was the wingnut tea-baggers that came out in force in November 2010. Folks like West were too busy pissing on the President, because he didn't govern like a "fricking" dictator, to go to the polls.

Now, every "blanking" thing we are dealing with...

- Busting of Unions
- Wingnut Redistricting
- Restrictions on Voting Rights
- State budget attacks against the poor and the middle class
- Privatization of Public Schools
- Demonization of teachers and public servants

all of this and more can be laid directly at the feet of folks like Cornel West. DU ought to repudiate Mr. West, not provide a forum to highlight his anti-Obama rants.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #234
369. Now THERE's some revisionist history for you.
The teabaggers did not turn out 'in force'. They just turned out - while pissed off dems and independents couldn't be bothered to turn out to support blue dogs who voted WITH the republicans. Nearly all progressive dems, who voted to support Democratic values, were returned to office. If the blue dogs had voted Democrat, Democrats might have returned the favor.

Busting unions - just what the fuck has this administration done to support unions?
Redistricting - that's the kind of shit that happens when you abandon your base to chase corportate money.
Restrictions on voting rights - could have been prevented in the blue dog losers had supported their party.
State budget attacks against the poor and middle class - Obama and the blue dogs extended the 2%'s tax cuts; that income would have gone a LONG way to mitigate the damage of the economic collapse.
Privatizatioin of public schools, and Demonization of teachers and public servants - are you fucking SERIOUS? Obama's new & improved NCLB - that race to the bottom - is a SURE path to privitization, and his personal choice to head the charge blames TEACHERS for the state of our schools; as for public servants, Obama, with no rhyme or reason, FROZE salaries for federal employees, as if THEY, the secretaries and office shlubs, were responsible for the deficit.

Why did Dems lose in '10? How about using Bush's economic team, Bush's war team, Bush's intelligence team, Bush's education philosophy, and telling Dems that the things they hated while Bush was in office are all OK now that it's Dems that are doing it. Is it really surprising that Democratic turnout was down by 20% from '08?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #369
460. Plus putting Tim Kaine in charge. He was a disaster. Didn't
support our Dems here in NC... If you remember. He undid so much of what Howard Dean had worked for in getting new people into Dem Party locally. Time Kaine deserves a lot of the blame for why Dems lost in Mid-Terms along with Obama's policies continuing Bush era policies and people that lost the enthusiasm of the Indpendents who swung over to Obama in states across the country.

Some of the Tea Party rage was people upset over the Banksters melting down our economy. Some indies I've talked to said they had enough of Bush and decided to vote Dem in '08. They sat home disgusted with everyone in 2010.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #234
397. Glad to see
that somebody gets it. :thumbsup:
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #116
163. Touche!!! nt
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #116
282. I heard West in a debate with a teabagger on TV back then
He smacked him down good. I suspect that's more than his critics here have done.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #116
522. The man's chosen occupation is as a scholar.
Edited on Tue May-17-11 02:13 PM by truedelphi
Cornell West is not an organizer. He teaches. He writes, and he gets an occasional moment on TV to share his viewpoint.

The organizer in all this mess is one Mr Barrack Obama.

He was the big community organizer.

But when the Tea Party went ballistic, starting in 2009, and demanding as its right to show up at Town Hall meetings and take control through sheer numbers, did our Mr. Community Organizer, now President, speak up about it?

No. He deferred.

Now as a community organizer myself, I was appalled at all of this. In the days before 2009, Town Hall meetings had mandatory sign-in sheets for anyone who wanted to speak. Anyone who wanted to speak could speak, but you were told to take a turn. before 2009, no one anywhere in America was allowed to bring in a truck load of people from somewhere else and shout down the speakers. They would be taken out of the meeting, by the moderators, who would use security force if necessary.

But for whatever reason, Obama deferred. I think that the DLC is simply complicit with the Republicans. They are all millionaires, every last person in the Senate, and most in the House.
(Yes, I know, Obama has STATED that he is not of the DLC. But don't actions speak louder than words?)

The DLC, in MNSHO, don't care about any of the major issues facing us. And the DLC would be shitting bricks in their pants if RFK, Martin Luther King or FDR showed up tomorrow to get the Democratic Party back in the hands of the real people.

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
133. "I couldn’t get a ticket with my mother and my brother. I said this is very strange."
And then as it turns out with the inauguration I couldn’t get a ticket with my mother and my brother. I said this is very strange. We drive into the hotel and the guy who picks up my bags from the hotel has a ticket to the inauguration. My mom says, ‘That’s something that this dear brother can get a ticket and you can’t get one, honey, all the work you did for him from Iowa.’ Beginning in Iowa to Ohio. We had to watch the thing in the hotel.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #133
169. A common man got a ticket to the inaugural but a prima donna did not get one.
Sounds right to me.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #133
241. Interesting ....
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #241
517. It is because neither me nor my whole damn family had the slightest difficulty
getting tickets.

What a petty thing to bring up. If I were he, I would have left this one off the list.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #517
518. Presume that if someone had been as active as Cornell was for Obama ...
that someone would have been in charge of getting tickets to him ---

That would be like W forgetting to leave tickets for one of his $100,000 supporters!!

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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
134. Thank you, Dr. West. Nt
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
142. knr
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
144. He's been down on Obama for some time now
I picked up this from right after the election:

Cornel West on the Election of Barack Obama: "I Hope He Is a Progressive Lincoln, I Aspire to Be the Frederick Douglass to Put Pressure on Him"

I think West is disappointed he isn't on the inside.
I doubt Obama could stand to be around him too much though. He's a windbag. That doesn't mean that his opinions aren't valid, but
in MY opinion he is a pontificating boring windbag.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #144
171. You tagged Cornell West on the money. I can't stand to watch the
windbag for more than 10 minutes.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #144
323. Nailed it.
:thumbsup:
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
147. K&R n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
152. He and I share the realization.
This part strikes me at my core:

“But it became very clear when I looked at the neoliberal economic team. The first announcement of Summers and Geithner I went ballistic. I said, ‘Oh, my God, I have really been misled at a very deep level.’
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
153. He didn't get his pony.
And wants Sarah Palin for President.
:sarcasm:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #153
179. Correction.....
and doesn't care who is President....
cause the worse the President, the louder the whining can get....
and then, hopefully this will bring about a revolution that will end with a socialistic eutopia
better than Sweden for everyone! :evilgrin:
or maybe not.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #153
293. Actually, you could delete that sarcasm thingy...
The unvarnished truth.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
159. Dramatic choice of words
but I do love Cornel West. I was pretty disappointed with the choice of economic advisors as well and would love to see Stiglitz and Krugman given more influence in the administration. Or even Robert Reich. Appointing Elisabeth Warren would do much to sooth those worried that there is not enough being done to protect the middle class during these tough economic times.
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
161. Its time the President faces reality
I would only hope that President Obama reads these words. I don't think though it going to change anything in DC. We are sheep being led to the slaughter.

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Agony Donating Member (865 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
167. Sometimes the truth hurts. Thankfully West isn't shy about the truth.
“Can you imagine if Barack Obama had taken office and deliberately educated and taught the American people about the nature of the financial catastrophe and what greed was really taking place?” West asks. “If he had told us what kind of mechanisms of accountability needed to be in place, if he had focused on homeowners rather than investment banks for bailouts and engaged in massive job creation he could have nipped in the bud the right-wing populism of the tea party folk. The tea party folk are right when they say the government is corrupt. It is corrupt. Big business and banks have taken over government and corrupted it in deep ways."

Some people can't handle the truth.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #167
185. i think fdr called the same people out during his presidency.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
172. K&R.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
176. Yup, that's it.
“I was thinking maybe he has at least some progressive populist instincts that could become more manifest after the cautious policies of being a senator and working with Lieberman as his mentor,”

“a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats. And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it.”

Ditto.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #176
194. delete
Edited on Mon May-16-11 07:51 PM by Bonobo
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
180. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #180
189. Bingo!! We have a winner!! Unrec.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #189
212. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #180
215. Yep. UnRec. And I had the unrec feature. n/t
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #180
336. I'm so glad to see you back!
You nailed it.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
181. i was fooled by his speeches and i`m old enough to know better.
he is the perfect neo-liberal democrat or old time liberal republican. i won`t work for his election because he has the money he needs. instead i will work at the local level/state level.

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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
184. wrong spot.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 07:42 PM by Fire1
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
187. No Sympathy for West Or Anyone Else Who Propped Obama While Clinton Was Being Treated Like Shit
Everyone knew he didn't have the legislative experience; some chose to ignore that, some chose to ignore the sexism and racism that was used against Clinton in order to prop up Obama's candidacy, some chose to ignore Obama throwing his minister under the bus.

Obama didn't deceive West or anyone else - they deceived themselves.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #187
191. Ooh look! Its the primaries!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #191
207. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #207
211. LMAO, did you just call someone on the internet who disagrees with you a "shock troop"? n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #211
226. Poster still stuck at the "Clinton didn't win the Primary" part of their life history.....
so tragic. :(
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #226
236. Poster Stuck On Making Ad Hominem Attacks As and On Anonymous Internet Posters
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #226
268. Especially since absolutely NOTHING would have been different whether Clinton
or Obama. They are both DLC lapdogs of Wall Street.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #211
437. No, I Just Called Someone Who Harrasses Others a "Shock Troop"
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #187
192. Those who "propped him up" don't need your sympathy and
we will "prop him up" again in 2012.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #187
232. "and racism that was used against Clinton"

Please tell me you're not serious.


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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #187
535. Someone's still angry that Hillary wasn't the nominee.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
195. "Ballistic"? I thought it was more "Critical" than "Ballistic"
But then again, ballistic usually means threats of violence, not something Prof West does by nature.

Please, DU, don't shoot the messenger on this one

I support Obama but without critical analysis, it might as well be GW Bush all over again
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #195
197. "Ballistic" is the text equivalent of the "Dean Scream". nt
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #197
201. Gotchya
I mean I think Obama, if anyone, might be able to use this information. Unlike the previous usurper.

And if he doesn't, what did you expect?

It's still better than the alternative. Even West would agree with that.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
196. It is interesting that Cornel gets hit with the same tired attacks as Nader.
"Ego."

"What has he done?"

"Armchair quarterback"

"Wants attention"

And as for anyone on this thread that didn't support Obama in the primaries, it's

"You didn't support him anyway."

What about me? I was a huge supporter of Obama. I left the state to canvass with my cancer-ridden mother. I endlessly hounded friends to support him. What about me? What's my excuse for being so disappointed???

Well, it's the same as Professor West's. The US is at a dramatic stage of history and it needed a dramatic change and a powerful leader ready to do, bravely. what needed to be done.

We got something far, far less.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #196
216. Maybe it's because he supported Nader in 2000
or it could be that his criticism is lame.

Seriously, for West to claim that he was misled by Obama is dubious.

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #216
220. We disagree.
By the way, just a friendly heads-up (seriously, no snark), I never click on your blue links because I don't like blind links. If you could at least tell us what you are linking to, it would not bother me as much and would be more inclined to follow them.
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SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
210. West is like a lot of activists.
For the activist, who does not have to engage in the compromises necessary to implement policy, everything is a function of willpower. If an officeholder is unable to achieve a stated policy goal, then the activist assumes that said officeholder never really wanted that goal in the first place. This belief manifests itself even when policy goals are realized, but in a gradualistic fashion. We witnessed this in the persistent belief that Obama secretly hates homosexuals and had no intention of pursuing their agenda, even up to (and beyond) the very moment that he signed the repeal of DADT.

Meanwhile, every single major policy initiative in America's history, both conservative and liberal, were the result of a dialectical process between proponents and opponents, with vested interests in the outcome, that resulted in mixed blessings to the both sides. Every. Single. One. This is because, for the working politician, success or failure is determined by political logistics. Do we have enough support in the relevant institutions (Congress, courts, executive, etc) to implement our preferred policy? If not (which is usually the case), what competing interests are standing in the way, and what is the best course of action for dealing with those interests? Do we placate, co-opt, ignore, confront, etc?

These are often very difficult questions that an activist discourse cannot answer, precisely because the activist discourse doesn't take them into consideration. We have a goal, guided by moral sentiment. The only relevant question is "what kind of policy best represents that goal and sentiment?" Success or failure in that discourse is determined by drive and consistency. And the President, at least, understands this. Read his critique on things like the Million Man March, or his reflection on his experiences as a community organizer.

Ultimately, the issue isn't whether West wanted too much or read too much into the sloganeering of Obama's political campaign, because political campaigns are just extensions of political logistics. They're designed to transform consensus into action, in the form of bigger voting majorities. The issue is that he failed to see this reality, and believed that the political campaign was all that was important.

Shorter Version: Talk is cheap.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #210
233. +9999, everything is easy for the person who doesnt have to do it. n/t
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nobodyspecial Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #210
254. Can't tell people here though
Frankly, I'm pretty sure the utopia they want to create would crash and burn quite quickly.

What stood out to me is that West admits his own culpability in creating an image of Obama that was filled with his own idealistic notions.

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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
213. "I have been misled" As have we all, my friend, as have we all.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #213
253. I find that it is much easier to be a victim
than to be anything else.
All one has to do is point a finger,
and that pretty much is all.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #253
259. The problem with the "armchair quarterback" defense...
is that there is no foreseeable end to what can be excused by it.

It covers everything into a neat little package of "Well what have YOU done?" --excusing all behavior and ignoring the fact that stepping up into a position of responsibility means PRECISELY that you are the one who is in the position of being criticized for actions (or lack thereof) by the "do-nothings" you so callously dismiss who elected you to that position.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #253
540. Ya know, after the election in 2008, I felt like a winner.
I liked that feeling. It was a GREAT feeling. It has pretty much gone to hell since that day. Man, it would be great to feel it again, but once bitten, twice shy.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
223. Is West really this naive? Or is he deliberately overlooking the context
Edited on Mon May-16-11 08:23 PM by pnwmom
of decisions Obama has made that he doesn't like?

For example, Obama traded something liberals hate (a 2 year extension on lower tax rates for the wealthy) for something conservatives opposed (another long extension on unemployment payments). Real politicians must compromise and horse-trade -- something that ivory tower academics with tenure never have to think about.

Obama isn't operating in a vacuum, he's operating in an atmosphere where the Rethugs are trying to destroy the progressive achievements of the 20th century. And in that context, he's managed to pass a stimulus bill, pass a health care bill, get unemployment payments extended, get DADT repealed, etc. Oh yeah -- and end the terrorism career of OBL. West probably doesn't like that, either.

Who cares.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #223
237. it's based on West's statements of 3 or 4 months ago....
notice that in the desperation of finding something to dog Obama about today....
in a really awesome long ass highly recommended thread of lotsa of hi fives and recs,
where everyone gets to come in and say....Hoorah!...
this shit floated back to the top...more or less!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
224. K/R --
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
243. I can relate to his reaction about Geithner and Summers, I too believed there was a chance for
Stiglitz. I know Joeseph Stiglitz said Obama had contacted him during the campaign
and I really thought he would go with such a brilliant man.

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SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
245. Obama: Presided over the most draconian crackdown on leaks in our history -- even more so than Nixon
When President Barack Obama took office, in 2009, he championed the cause of government transparency, and spoke admiringly of whistle-blowers, whom he described as "often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government." But the Obama Administration has pursued leak prosecutions with a surprising relentlessness. Including the Drake case, it has been using the Espionage Act to press criminal charges in five alleged instances of national-security leaks -- more such prosecutions than have occurred in all previous Administrations combined. The Drake case is one of two that Obama’s Justice Department has carried over from the Bush years.

Gabriel Schoenfeld, a conservative political scientist at the Hudson Institute, who, in his book "Necessary Secrets" (2010), argues for more stringent protection of classified information, says, "Ironically, Obama has presided over the most draconian crackdown on leaks in our history -- even more so than Nixon."

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/barack_obama/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/05/16/whistleblowers

We were all fooled.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #245
250. Hmmmm?
Gabriel Schoenfeld, a conservative political scientist at the Hudson Institute, who, in his book "Necessary Secrets" (2010), argues for more stringent protection of classified information, says, "Ironically, Obama has presided over the most draconian crackdown on leaks in our history -- even more so than Nixon."


This Gabriel Schoenfeld?

Has anyone gotten John Yoo's opinion of Obama?

Oh, Nixon was a liberal!!!!





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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #250
340. Love it
The guy is a conservative so obviously everything he says is wrong. Why dont you actually try disputing the simple point this guy is making rather than attacking him personally?
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
246. K&R
nt
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
248. K/R For this paragraph alone,
“This was maybe America’s last chance to fight back against the greed of the Wall Street oligarchs and corporate plutocrats, to generate some serious discussion about public interest and common good that sustains any democratic experiment,” West laments. “We are squeezing out all of the democratic juices we have. The escalation of the class war against the poor and the working class is intense. More and more working people are beaten down. They are world-weary. They are into self-medication. They are turning on each other. They are scapegoating the most vulnerable rather than confronting the most powerful. It is a profoundly human response to panic and catastrophe. I thought Barack Obama could have provided some way out. But he lacks backbone."


This resonates with me,he was our last hope.
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #248
547. +1
n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
257. BIG-TIME REC. nt
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
258. It is amazing how articles like these can be built on delusion on top of delusion on top of delusion
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:02 PM by BzaDem
While Obama was certainly right that West should be ashamed of himself, the truth was that by that time, West had gone so far off the deep end that what he was saying shouldn't have really been dignified by a response.

Of course, there will be people living in the alternate reality that a few have constructed, where Obama is the evil corporate oligarch West speaks of, and that and West is somehow correct. But such delusion really shouldn't be treated any differently than other types of delusion from other ideological and non-ideological directions. There will always be people from all ideological directions that will simply never be satisfied with the purity of their party or the state of the policy in general, at any point in their life. This is nothing new.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #258
263. He doesn't say "evil corporate oligarch" so much as feckless puppet. nt
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #263
313. Obamer...the Manchurian Candidate!1!!!!!11
:crazy: :scared: :crazy:
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #263
314. More like "Mr. Go along to Get Along". nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #258
269. The fascinating thing is
that Obama is portrayed as this master of deception who fooled only his critics. LOL!

West can make up the accusations, and then blame Obama for causing his disappointed state (I was "misled").

Good gig!

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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #269
277. Exactly. If anyone thinks that West would not be saying the exact same thing about ANY Democratic
nominee who was ultimately elected, they are deluding themselves.
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #258
339. I have an idea
Why dont you try disputing "anything" West has actually said, rather than just laying out generic insults and fact-free accusations.

Seriously, explain how West is wrong.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #339
392. Simple. He claims Obama is not progressive.
Edited on Tue May-17-11 02:06 AM by BzaDem
That's a pretty big fail right there. (Again, notwithstanding the 13% of liberal Democrats who don't support him and wouldn't approve of any actual President elected to office from any party.)

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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #392
393. Ummm
When did war, unfettered free-trade and cutting the deficit on the backs of poor people become progressive?

His support for the war in Afghanistan automatically disqualifies him from being a progressive, let alone his trade policies.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #393
531. That's funny, since he supported ESCALATING the war in Afghanistan in the campaign, yet plenty of
people here at the time did not think THAT disqualified him from being progressive.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
264. Well, Cornel, a lot of us were misled.
Happy to have you join the resistance.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #264
283. West has been shitting on Obama since October of 2008.......
at least.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #283
289. I know the "discredit machine" is going at warp speed right now -
but save it for someone who doesn't read.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #289
302. Don't read then.....
Actually, April 2008 is when West started with his "Critiques".....
http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/cornel_west_calls_obama_out_for_dissing.php

then on to October of 2008, a week before the election....
http://newsone.com/nation/bakari-kitwana/exclusive-cornel-west-talks-about-obama-presidency/

He hasn't stopped since.....
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #302
434. That is about the time I started having doubts as well -
I worked on the primary campaign here in TX (March 2008), but when Mr. Obama met with the hoity toity of Houston and then started talking about remaining open-minded on drilling I started to wonder what we were electing.

High dollar events in River Oaks: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5916298.html (July 31, 2008)
Stance on offshore drilling: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-02/politics/campaign.wrap_1_offshore-oil-drilling-obama-gas-prices?_s=PM:POLITICS (August 2, 2008)

This of course is nothing new with politicians, but it was an alert to me that "hope and change" would be imaginary rather than an actuality.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
265. This is the Absolute Reality this Political Party has to come to Terms with
no more deceit... it's killing our country.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #265
292. +1,000.
Most of us have already come to terms with this ugly fact. The rest kick and scream against it and stand by their "team".
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
281. Sad to say...Professor West is reaching irrelevant, irrational buffoon status.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:13 PM by jefferson_dem
What a pitiful crock this is...

“What it said to me on a personal level,” he goes on, “was that brother Barack Obama had no sense of gratitude, no sense of loyalty, no sense of even courtesy, sense of decency, just to say thank you. Is this the kind of manipulative, Machiavellian orientation we ought to get used to? That was on a personal level.”

But there was also the betrayal on the political and ideological level.


When did Cornel morph into an sad, out-of-touch fool? Obama is not now and never was an ideologue. In fact, his candidacy was rooted in a rejection of dogmatic ideology.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #281
300. West is absolutely right. I heard Obama say in a live speech in which I shook
O's hand that "my mother was on food stamps."

I thought, "here's somebody who's really lived it."

Then came the repudiation of the promises on the public option, the Bush tax cuts, and the Employee Free Choice Act among so many others . . .
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #300
306. Yeah, you didn't get everything you wanted, when you wanted it.
Welcome to the reality of American politics.

I would try to defend the President by enumerating the hundreds of progressive accomplishments by this administration, or mentioning that this has been, inarguably, the most progressive administration in a generation...but it wouldn't matter. Sounds like your mind is made up.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #306
324. Fine, there were some progressive gains(the most important things were always pissed down to nothing
Edited on Mon May-16-11 10:02 PM by Ken Burch
like the healthcare bill that didn't have anything progressive in it by the end and wouldn't even have helped Obama's own mother, were she alive and fighting leukemia now, owing to the completely unjustified four-year delay in implementing even the "coverage can't be denied for pre-existing conditions" language), but here's what you're missing:

In January 2009, we had a chance to make a massive and permanent re-alignment of American politics, and to create a major change in this country's values.

The admin gave up on both of those things because, in its heart of hearts(as I think even you would have to admit deep down inside)its loyalties were always with the suites rather than the streets. A pro-suites loyalty is the only possible reason, for example, to make someone like Rahm Emmanuel chief of staff and the only reason to put Wall Street toadies like Geithner and Summers in charge of the economy-you can't make appointments like THAT and really want change, you know.

Also, the admin refused to fight the right-wing ideological assault in any major way at all, and conceded control of the debate to Boehner and the Tea Party from the get-go.

And control of the economy, which could have been at least shared by working people and pushed in an inclusive, pro-employment, pro-community redevelopment direction had Obama actually cared about the poor at all rather than about his CEO friends, has now been ceded to the corporate thieves for the rest of his presidency. Workers can't make any gains at all now until at least 2016, if they can make any THEN.

These were the crucial mistakes, and the administration and the party may not ever recover from them. It's unlikely, for example, that anything progressive at all will happen for the rest of the presidency, and now that they've convinced a lot of people that war is cool again, all hope of staying on good terms with the rest of the world is pretty much gone.

Things like that are why people like Cornel West, who speaks for many if not most progressives, are so bitter and, frankly, heartsick about how things played out.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #324
500. Amen, well said. nt
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #306
499. I didn't get ANYTHING I wanted, except the repeal of DADT,
which was a no-brainer.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
286. k&r
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
290. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #290
298. Your post reeks with irony...
In the same breath, you ridicule "fanboys and fangirls" who don't agree with West's polemic for "attacking the messenger."
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #290
299. Hmmmm?
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:31 PM by ProSense
"fanboys and fangirls"


President Obama shakes hands with Princeton University professor Cornel West after speaking at the National Urban League’s 100th Anniversary Convention in Washington in July 2010.


“I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men,” West says. “It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white. He is just as human as I am, but that is his cultural formation. When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening. And that’s true for a white brother. When you get a white brother who meets a free, independent black man, they got to be mature to really embrace fully what the brother is saying to them. It’s a tension, given the history. It can be overcome. Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive. He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination. It is understandable.

“He feels most comfortable with upper middle-class white and Jewish men who consider themselves very smart, very savvy and very effective in getting what they want,” he says. “He’s got two homes. He has got his family and whatever challenges go on there, and this other home. Larry Summers blows his mind because he’s so smart. He’s got Establishment connections. He’s embracing me. It is this smartness, this truncated brilliance, that titillates and stimulates brother Barack and makes him feel at home. That is very sad for me.

Did West discover this after the election or before he was "misled"?

Frankly, it sounds like psychobabble bullshit.


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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #299
303. The more I read West's words, the "sicker" I become.
:puke:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #290
320. West's fanboys and fangirls are doing fine in this thread anyways.....
West gets bigtime accolates for stomping his foot.
Fanboys and Fangirls say Yeah!
West's a fucking hero!
He risks it all switching from Harvard to Princeton!
How courageous was that????? :rofl:
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
294. "Oh, my God, I have really been misled at a very deep level."
....haven't we all, brother West, haven't we all....
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Bluesbreaker Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
296. This is a surprise?
It's not surprising that Cornell West came to any of these conclusions, just that it took him so long. Most progressives have been deep into buyer's remorse for the past 18 months, if not longer.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #296
301. Do you have any actual evidence that "most progressives" are suffering from buyer's remorse?
Actually, most polls show that 80%+ approve of the job he's doing... Sorry.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #301
484. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #296
472. We won't have economic reform until the backs of the billionaires are broke
The illusion of all powerful that wealth brings is just as good as any other illusion you care to entertain. The other illusion that the well educated will be able to lead us out of the morass is another sold bill of goods. Common sense would tell that the inculcation of the Establishments education would only bring more of the Establishments bankrupt B.S.

It's like why would expect a different result using the same old tools :banghead:
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
310. Choose one.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
322. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #322
327. Deleted sub-thread
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #322
331. Deleted sub-thread
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #322
333. Not actually coming from many, you'll notice.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #322
344. Clearly, hating on the pointy-headed interlekchuls is not just for freepers anymore. n/t
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #344
550. +1
+
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
334. Whoa. What a tour de force.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
341. Deleted message
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
346. Here we go again. Obama has not done anything right and mcCain should have won.
I'm sick of it. Maybe getting real about Obama's successes and failures is OK but treating him like you treated bush is just wrong. FAIL
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #346
373. Crock.
Where does the OP suggest mccain should have won? Another from the silly list of attacks against a sane and reasoned analysis of this administration.

The OP isn't a fail. But your crotchedy attempt to misread and mislead is.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #373
422. here is one particular sentence that was easy to find among all the others like it
"“And even at this moment, when the empire is in deep decline, the culture is in deep decay, the political system is broken, where nearly everyone is up for sale, you say all I have is the subversive memory of those who came before, personal integrity, trying to live a decent life, and a willingness to live and die for the love of folk who are catching hell.

You really think that is what Obama is?

And you know damn well what I meant by the McCain comment.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #422
462. Please read closer.
Try the sentence you quoted again. Look at the surrounding text. Look at the context of the passage. Try to see if you really understand what is being said. Academic prose is dense and difficult. There is no reason why it is, but it is, and unless you have experience, you might just carry away a superficial interpretation based on something in you and not in the text.

And yes. I do think I know damn well what you were doing with the mccain comment. What is it that you think you were doing when you made up a position and then ascribed it to the OP? How honest is that?
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
347. K & R
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
348. This post actually has 251 recommendations.

General Discussion
The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West Went Ballistic
251 recs : By eilen

General Discussion
Tom Tomorrow: "And So It Came To Pass..."
162 recs : By kpete

General Discussion
John Steinbeck quote: Socialism never took root in America because
147 recs : By Ichingcarpenter

General Discussion
How to mess with the May 21-ers' minds.....
137 recs : By scheming daemons

Latest Breaking News
Appeals court sides with federal judge, allows Minnesota campaign law to stand
125 recs : By wellstone dem

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peace4ever Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #348
349. reminds me of one of my favorite quotes...
"I read, to know I am not alone"

:hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #348
350. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #348
436. So Sorry You Feel That Way
And doesn't it just suck that you can't verbally abuse all those people, individually?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #348
473. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #348
478. Do you get extra points for high recs?
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
355. K&R Democrats who ignore such criticism do so at their electoral and moral peril.
Edited on Mon May-16-11 10:56 PM by Jakes Progress
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
359. This is my favorite dessert recipe!
The Plantation House Restaurant Recipes ~ Desserts

Pot de Crème au Chocolat

One of our most frequently-requested recipes is for this
rich, creamy chocolate dessert (also known as petits pots de
crème au chocolat). This classic French dessert, loved for its
intense chocolate flavor, is surprisingly simple to create.
Ingredients
4 oz. chopped dark chocolate
3/4 C. heavy cream
2 egg yolks, slightly beaten
2 Tbsp. granulated sugar
1/2 tsp. vanilla extract
dash of salt

Method
Heat chocolate in double boiler, whisking until melted. Stir in sugar and heavy cream,
whisking until smooth. Beat a small amount of chocolate mixture into bowl of beaten
egg yolks. Gradually add the egg-chocolate mixture back into double boiler pan. (This
step should keep egg yolks from curdling when mixed into the main chocolate mixture.)
Whisk and cook for several minutes over medium heat. Stir in vanilla and dash of salt.
Strain through small sieve to remove any possible cooked egg "lumps." Pour into
demitasse cups or small ramekins. Chill until firm.

Note: a regular saucepan can also be used in place of a double boiler, if care is
taken to make sure chocolate does not burn.

Presentation
Garnish with dollop of fresh whipped cream & grated chocolate or chocolate coffee bean.
Recipe should produce 4 servings. This dessert, if topped with plastic wrap (ungarnished)
should last several days in the refrigerator.

<http://www.theplantationhouse.com/dessert.html>
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #359
430. Why post a "Plantation House" recipe for chocolate here? nt
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #359
480. Can you add liqueur to this? nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #359
516. I'll bet you love the plantation house...
PB
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
360. K & R, but with great sadness because I know exactly what he means.
I was misled too.
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
376. Unless you can present.....
....someone better, more attuned to the writer's, and I assume your criticisms, the writer has no leg to stand on. I on the other hand have no qualms in expressing my opinion that there is only one other person besides Obama that I would like to see in office. Hillary Clinton, but anti-Obama people have fooled themselves into believing that getting rid of him will fix everything. What is the alternative that will satisfy your desire for a perfect world? Offer it to us, make a valid case why your alternative should be in power, and I'm sure most liberals would jump on the bandwagon. It's easy to criticize those in positions similar to Obama's, but it's hard, and unfortunately easily so, to offer a substantive alternative. Give me one person on this entire planet that will make your "dreams" come true. That's what I thought. Thanks.
quickesst
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
378. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DontTreadOnMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #378
383. Obama is layer?
Layer Cake? please translate into a sentence that we can understand.

re: "doesn't have a chance to win 2012" ??? not even 1% chance? I bet you don't have good luck at betting games...
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
381. K & R
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
384. An excellent analysis,
One that captures the sentiments of a lot of people out here.
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Tripod Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
385. Cornel West is Brilliant.
Edited on Tue May-17-11 01:21 AM by Tripod
And so is Obama. He will get re-elected in 2012! I have been angry at our President, many times. But I haven't lost hope for his intelligence. As I know, Cornel West is the smartest man out there. But he wont be the President, He has other great things to do! Am I wrong? No, I didn't think so!
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
386. Mr. West is just another person who did not pay attention
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #386
388. I don't think so. If you look at Belafonte's comments carefully,
(in the interview he gave Amy) it's pretty clear they were both holding back during the campaign. And probably hoping Obama would at least not go to the right of Clinton like a lot of us were.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #388
391. I listened carefully, and decided he WOULD be rght, far right of Clinton
if I knew, why didn't they?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #391
445. I think you think Clinton was farther to the left than I do. n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
387. 'I was thinking maybe he has at least some progressive populist instincts'
:rofl:
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
390. Of course you must never let facts get in the way
Obama promises kept

What the f*** has Obama done

Or the short version

Ended the Great Recession, health care reform, Wall Street reform, student loan reform, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repeal, New START, the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the biggest overhaul of our food-safety laws in 70 years, new regulation of the credit card industry, new regulation of the tobacco industry, a national service bill, expanded stem-cell research, the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, net neutrality, the most sweeping land-protection act in 15 years, health care for 9/11 rescue workers, and the confirmation of two Supreme Court justices.

Oh, and he killed Osama bin Laden.

Really makes the President look like "a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats" doesn't it?

Unrecced
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #390
394. Is this supposed to be serious?
Is this satire? My sarcasm detector has been way off recently so I have trouble telling.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #394
520. It seems your fact detector is faulty
The OP broadcast an opinion of President Obama that is at odds with the facts. Read the links - or are you so set in your beliefs that you do not bother with facts.

It is true that Obama has not done everything the left desired but his list of achievements is still pretty impressive considering that for the past 16 months he has been operating with a hostile House and for 40 months with a dysfunctional Senate that danced to the tune of the DINOs
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carincross Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
395. Kudos to Chris Hedges
Chris Hedges should deserve some credit for the interview. His columns consistently show the plight of the liberal movement in today's society. Cornel West is just the latest brilliant example.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #395
416. When did Hedges become an Alex Jones acolyte?
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
396. As soon as POTUS Obama began making appointments,
I knew something was seriously wrong; specifically the Democratic Party had championed and brought to office a neo-liberal and not a true liberal.

Perhaps the neo-liberals now own the Democratic party; but that does not excuse the lack of heart and humanity in policy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #396
398. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
399. K&R
This always puzzled me.

“Can you imagine if Barack Obama had taken office and deliberately educated and taught the American people about the nature of the financial catastrophe and what greed was really taking place?” West asks.

Obama couldn't have done this? He could have done this easily. If he had, as Dr. West says, it would have completely disarmed the Tea Party astro turf movement.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
401. I hear you, Cornell
It hurts.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
427. Kicking
I hit unrec by mistake, need a couple of recs from people to make up for it. First time I've made that mistake, oops. Anyway thanks for this OP, sadly I agree with it.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
431. K & R
I have to agree with Cornel, but Obama never came off to me as a progressive. He came off as "middle of the road." Today, that middle of the road is more to the right than it has ever been, thanks to the right wing media.
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
435. I suppose that West was deceived
I was not deceived.

It was clear to me that Obama was not, and is not, a leftist.

Obama is, to the extent that he can be put into a category, a centrist.

Obama is much more concerned about doing what is possble and practical. He is more of a realist than anything.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #435
439. He wasn't deceived
West supported Nader in 2000 and 2004, and likely supported Obama to ride the wave.

Here his a comment on Hillary and Kerry from 2004:


<...>

Senators Hillary Clinton and John Kerry are exemplary paternalistic nihilists — contemporary Grand Inquisitors who long to believe in a grand democratic vision yet cannot manage to speak with full candor or attack the corruptions of the system at their heart. So they defer to pollsters, lobbyists, and powerful corporate interests even as they espouse populist rhetoric and democratic concerns. Their centrist or conservative policies on welfare reform, the Iraq war, and justice in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict speak volumes — they are opportunistic efforts to satisfy centrist or conservative constituencies. In this way, both follow the lead of Bill Clinton. Inadvertently, they contribute to the conservative drift of the country heralded by Republicans.



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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #439
455. I thought not
That comment is a real "jeremiad".

Paternalistic nihilist is a contradiction in terms.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #435
453. Obama ran on change. n/t
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #453
461. Not easy
Radical change is very difficult when you do not have a working majority for that change.

This country does not have the consensus needed for the kind of radical change envisaged by people such as West.

People like Obama will disappoint people like West.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #435
542. I just shake my head when I read about what is "possible and practical"
So? It's impossible for the President to slow the crackdown on medical marijuana?
Just as a start. I could go on and on, but it probably wouldn't change your mind, so why bother?

http://www.aclu.org/blog/drug-law-reform/medical-marijuana-crackdown-wholly-avoidable-health-care-crisis
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-11 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #542
565. Difficult
Reforming a system is difficult, and many will oppose any change; some because anything changes; some because it does not change everything. That is where possible and practical come in.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
443. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
446. Cornel West and Cynthia Mckinney for the Green Party Presidential nomination in 2012?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #446
467. Grayson/Greenwald/Cornel in 2012!
Edited on Tue May-17-11 09:27 AM by jefferson_dem
A three-headed monster of "trufe to power" !1!! :crazy:
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
447. This post actually has 333 recommendations

General Discussion

The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West Went Ballistic
333 recs : By eilen

General Discussion
Tom Tomorrow: "And So It Came To Pass..."
196 recs : By kpete

General Discussion
John Steinbeck quote: Socialism never took root in America because
187 recs : By Ichingcarpenter

Latest Breaking News
Appeals court sides with federal judge, allows Minnesota campaign law to stand
151 recs : By wellstone dem

General Discussion
Immunity Gene Cures Man Of AIDS
139 recs : By Modern_Matthew

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #447
466. So rather than discounting it as "I want my pony-ism", it should be taken seriously. nt
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #447
468. Bieber sold like 5,000,000 cds last year.
:)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #468
475. By that standard only Bieber should get to speak.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #447
481. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
448. Powerful because TRUE.
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That Guy 888 Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
452. When did "Yes We Can" get replaced with "it's not practical" Recc'd
Time to put some people back on ignore.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #452
463. When did...
"there is not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America" become "Workers of the World, Unite!"?
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #463
486. That's just silly. nt
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
457. Slam dunk,.
Edited on Tue May-17-11 08:58 AM by Locrian
Slam dunk,.


"This was maybe America’s last chance to fight back against the greed of the Wall Street oligarchs and corporate plutocrats, to generate some serious discussion about public interest and common good that sustains any democratic experiment,” West laments. “We are squeezing out all of the democratic juices we have. The escalation of the class war against the poor and the working class is intense. More and more working people are beaten down. They are world-weary. They are into self-medication. They are turning on each other. They are scapegoating the most vulnerable rather than confronting the most powerful. It is a profoundly human response to panic and catastrophe. I thought Barack Obama could have provided some way out. But he lacks backbone."
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #457
465. One man's slam dunk
Edited on Tue May-17-11 09:16 AM by ProSense
is another man's drivel.

Which is how West operates. He wants to lay the ills of America at Obama's feet to claim that he is responsible for a trend decades in the making.

He cannot give Obama credit for working to reverse the trend. It's an exercise in ignoring the President's achievements and using the fact that change is not going to be noticeable overnight as a springboard for his criticisms.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
469. But...he never really supported Obama anyway
Someone refresh my memory of the other BS we Disappointed Libs (c) are pummeled with
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
470. Dr. Cornel West Jones is correct.

Way sadly correct.

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
476. Kick for Dr. West.
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wysingm Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
479. garbage in garbage out
Cornel West always did talk a lot of garbage. This is no different.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
487. Kicked and recommended. nt
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
491. Many progressives understood this during the election.
Even Obama said he was no progressive, and with Goldman Sachs being his largest corporate campaign contributor, it seemed to forecast his economic priorities (Wall Street, not Main Street). But the appointment of Geithner and Summers made it quite clear that he would continue the neoliberal agenda, barely distinguishable and providing continuity to the neocon agenda. So, it is no wonder why most progressives feel disillusioned at this point, after believing in the hope an change message during the election. I'm afraid it's just more of the same.

"But it became very clear when I looked at the neoliberal economic team. The first announcement of Summers and Geithner I went ballistic. I said, Oh, my God, I have really been misled at a very deep level."
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #491
510. THAT was the first Slap in the Face.
I KNEW that Obama was no "Liberal",
but during his campaign, he was emphatic that,
"Everyone will have a seat at the table."
I cheered this statement because I believed that the FDR Wing of the Party
would finally have a "seat at the table" that we had been denied since LBJ.
That is ALL I had "HOPE" for.

Instead, we got this on Day One:

The DLC New Team
Chamber of Commerce APPROVED!!!

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254886&kaid=86&subid=85


Cornell West was Right On,
and won a K&R from me.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone



"By their works you will know them."







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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
492. This is
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
494. Oh, man. Coming from Dr. West, this really stings. nt
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
495. +1
Cornel West is exactly right.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
497. that is true - but in a country where 46% of the populace think Obama is too liberal
in a country where the only viable alternative to Obama-style Democrats seriously believe that Obama and those who share his views are socialist-extremist and apparently now consider Newt Gingrich too liberal - what on earth do we do?

The sad and unfortunate reality is that the issue is not Obama or Clinton or anyone else who has a snowballs chance in hell of becoming major players on the political stage - much less governing. There is no hope that this new reality is going to result in some kind of progressive popular uprising. The only plausible popular uprising will be a reactionary uprising lead by forces that really do consider New Gingrich way, way too left-wing. The reality is that capital power is now unrestrained to unparalleled levels - they have very successfully redefined the acceptable boundaries of serious debate - and we are only at their mercy and even worse - there is nothing, absolutely nothing we can do about it.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #497
508. Those 46% will not be moved by truth or actual events
If the president were actually enacting FDR-style policies, your 46% would be about the same. Those are the stupid, ignorant, brainwashed, and racist. So if he is keeping Gitmo open and kissing up to business and the NRA to try to shrink that number, he's really missing the boat. Since you want to use polls to justify Obama's right-wing policies, the polls also show that 80% of the people think the hyper-rich should have their taxes increased rather than cutting benefits to seniors and the needy. Why doesn't he run with that instead of trying to garner votes from Fox Lies viewers?
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #508
513. I'm certainly not justifying Obama's right-wing politics and I absolutely agree
Edited on Tue May-17-11 12:49 PM by Douglas Carpenter
that the 46% would be about the same even if Obama had pushed a considerably more progressive agenda. He truly did miss the boat - to put it mildly - when after winning a mandate for change and right after a major economic collapse that made that mandate unassailable he did nothing to redefine the debate - absolutely nothing. The opportunity was presented to him on a silver platter and he chose Wall Street sycophant politics as usual instead. His Wall Street backers and their cronies in the media knew that from the very beginning - long before he entered the race - that was exactly what he would do. Even I knew it. Every political observer who wasn't utterly naive knew that. Neither Sen. Obama or anyone else would have ever, ever, ever been taken seriously as a credible candidate if they thought for one single second that they were a threat to established power. Like Dr. West, I hoped in vain that he would have at least some progressive instincts - but ultimately I knew better. His record in the Senate and even a cursory observation of his words beyond a few populist cliches spoke otherwise. He would not have been treated by the mainstream media as a plausible candidate if he was truly progressive. He would have been completely marginalized from the beginning.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
498. +100 for the good doctor's excellent analysis. nt
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
502. I don't understand why there's so much rancor over this article...
First of all, Chris Hedges wrote the article, and the voice in the first three paragraphs (except for the quote at the end of paragraph three) is that of Hedges.


West describes Obama as a puppet of corporate plutocrats and head of the American killing machine, a description with which many here concur.

West describes himself as committed to the weak and vulnerable. I don't think progressives would quarrel with that.

Is it fair to say that Obama appointed a neo-liberal economic team? Are/were those he surrounded himself with concerned about downsizing banks or making Wall Street accountable? If not, then is there reason for West to feel betrayed?

Does Obama use "intermittent progressive populist language in order to justify a centrist, neoliberalist policy"? Many here have said as much. West isn't alone in saying this.

What about Obama's record on education? Is it unacceptable for West to take him to task for it? Seems like most DUers are in agreement that the appointment of Arne Duncan was a disaster and Obama continues to support a path which will ultimately destroy our public education system.

West's "psychological" assessment of Obama....there's nothing disrespectful there. If someone disagrees, they should refute it instead of trying to kill the messenger.

West offers some solutions to the mess we find ourselves in. They're not unreasonable, but if someone disagrees they should refute them.

There seem to be a lot of journalists etc. who are persona non grata around here just because they are impertinent enough to suggest that Pres. Obama has feet of clay. Why not discuss something on its merits, or lack thereof?
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #502
519. +50 million times infinity times 50 gazillion!
Since we now live in exponential times, we are experiencing the inception of our species' likely demise, even as we blog about it. We're too late to stop global climate change, and must 'go along for the ride.' We are also witnessing the MIC and energy cartel pulling out all stops to guarantee we'll continue our insane addiction to oil, coal, and nuclear energy--all of which fatally pollute our planet every second of every minute of every day of every week of every month of every year that we exist.

For those who felt Obama would make manifest the hope and change he promised during his campaign, his lackluster and often antithetical performance is grounds for concern, if not criticism.

Obama's assault on our system of public education is reason enough for me to question his intent and his integrity. That is not only my RIGHT, it is my RESPONSIBILITY as a citizen of this nation. And, as a teacher, I can guarantee you that I possess the cognitive and deductive reasoning skills to ascertain when I'm being offered a plate full of red herrings.
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #519
554. A plateful of red herrings
That's a good description.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
511. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jim_Shorts Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
512.  The truth riles people up
Obama got Bin Laden so he MUST be a progressive (only a true progressive could have done that)

Cornell West was shaking the presidents hand as Obama was excoriating him for having the nerve to say he wasn't a progressive at the urban league. West has been pushed aside just like the rest of the progressives unless some of you have been sleeping.

From where I sit C.W. has been fighting hard for the poor, working class, and the black community (as it should be) and he brings a strong mind to the fight
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #512
553. "truth"
There, fixed it for ya.

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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
514. k&r
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
515. i missed all the fun. damn it.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #515
521. Yes,
you certainly did. Entire threads are missing from this OP--all those scornful, spiteful, juicy tidbits consigned to oblivion.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
526. West nailed it!
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #526
546. I think he would have preferred not to have had to.
I've seen him on Bill Maher and he seems more disappointed than angry.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
527. All I hear is West working harder at bashing Obama than getting a progressive congress. I think West
Edited on Tue May-17-11 02:49 PM by uponit7771
...wants to be "heard" more than he wants to work on the progressive issues.

I don't see West as a person LEADING movements of progressiveness in this country....I hear him talking more than I see him leading.

Regards
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #527
532. You obviously know nothing about West
The guy is involved with more progressive organizations and PAC's than anyone else in this country I am aware of. The guy has spent his entire life speaking at and volunteering for various civil rights organizations. He is the honorary chair of the "Democratic Socialists of America". He was closely involved with the million man march. He is co-chair of the Tikkun community. He is a member of "The campaign for Peace and Democracy". He is a contributing editor to Sojourners magazine. He is a long time respected member of the APHA(American Public Health Association) and gave the opening remarks at last years conference.

Is that not enough? Has he not dedicated a sufficient enough portion of his life to helping advance progressive causes and spread awareness of poverty in this country?
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #532
541. +1
+
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Marblehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
528. Hope and change
dashed.....
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #528
549. A slogan.
As soon as Summers and Geithner came in, that was clear.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
530. Cornel West v. Barack Obama

Cornel West v. Barack Obama

Melissa Harris-Perry

Professor Cornel West is President Obama’s silenced, disregarded, disrespected moral conscience, according to Chris Hedges’s recent column, “The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West went Ballistic.” In a self-aggrandizing, victimology sermon deceptively wrapped in the discourse of prophetic witness, Professor West offers thin criticism of President Obama and stunning insight into the delicate ego of the self-appointed black leadership class that has been largely supplanted in recent years.

West begins with a bit of historical revision. West suggests that the President discarded him without provocation after he offered the Obama for America campaign his loyal service and prayers. But anyone with a casual knowledge of this rift knows it began during the Democratic primary not after the election. It began, not with a puffed up President, but when Cornel West’s “dear brother” Tavis Smiley threw a public tantrum because Senator Obama refused to attend Smiley's annual State of Black America. Smiley repeatedly suggested that his forum was the necessary black vetting space for the Democratic nominees. He needed to ask Obama and Clinton tough questions so that black America could get the answers it needed. But black America was doing a fine job making up its own mind in the primaries and didn’t need Smiley’s blessing to determine their own electoral preferences. Indeed, when Smiley got a chance to hold candidate Clinton “accountable” he spent more time fawning over her than probing about her symbolic or substantive policy stances that impacted black communities. Fiercely loyal to his friend, Professor West chose sides and began to undermine candidate Obama is small and large ways. Candidate Obama ceased calling West back because he was in the middle of a fierce campaign and West’s loyalties were, at best, divided. I suspect candidate Obama did not trust his “dear brother” to keep the campaign secrets and strategies. I also suspect he was not inaccurate in his hesitancy.

<...>

What exactly is so irritating to West about inaugural ticket-gate? It can't be a claim that the black, progressive intellectual community was unrepresented. Yale's Elizabeth Alexander was the poet that cold morning. It can't be that the "common man" was shut out because the Neighborhood Ball was reserved for the ordinary women and and men who worked to make Obama '08 possible. It must be a simple matter of jealous indignation. While I appreciate the humanness in such a a reaction, it hardly counts as a prophetic critique.

<...>

As tenured professors Cornel West and I are not meaningfully accountable, no matter what our love, commitment, or self-delusions tell us. President Obama, as an elected official, can, in fact, be voted out of his job. We can’t. That is a difference that matters. As West derides the President’s economic policies he remains silent on his friend Tavis Smiley’s relationship with Wal-Mart, Wells Fargo, and McDonald's--all corporations whose invasive and predatory actions in poor and black communities have been the target of progressive organizing for decades. I have never heard him take Tavis Smiley to task for helping convince black Americans to enter into predatory mortgages. I’ve never heard him ask whether Tavis' decision to publish R. Kelley’s memoirs might be a less than progressive decision. He doesn’t hold Tavis accountable because Tavis is his friend and he is loyal. I respect that, but I also know that if he were in elected office the could not get off so easily. Opposition research would point out the hypocrisy in his public positions in a way that would make him vulnerable come election time. As a media personality and professor he is safely ensconced in a system that can never vote him off the island. I think an honest critique of Obama has to begin by acknowledging his own privileges.

more


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #530
544. Deleted message
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
534. K&R
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JoeyTrib Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
537. Cornell West is right, of course.
We are a nation run by a banking elite and a militaristic cabal. No way a genuine activist would ever be elected.

The best way to tell what America is is to look at who we have supported through the years and whose governments we have toppled over. In most cases, the CIA has destroyed the democratic and put in right wing dictatorships. Easier to get business done that way. No messy public input to deal with. And no unions.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
539. k & r n/t
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
545. This thread is a flamewar of extraordinary magnitude!
:popcorn:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
548. Deleted message
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
551. Dr. West has become his own worst enemy..
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
552. many mistake what obama wants to do with what he can do
west is a guy who speaks from a position of principle but he like most on the left have no idea what the right's most important weapon is and therefore often stupidly evaluate a the ability of dems like obama, or any dem rep, to push a progressive agenda.

the right's most important weapon is the talk radio monopoly, the giant buzz machine that does the groundwork for everything the right and it's media assets want to do, and there is NO organized opposition to it while the blowhards get a free speech free ride to blast 50 mil a week from 1000 radio stations with whatever the RW think tanks put in front of them, creating made to order corporate constituencies that the analysts attribute to 'popular' dissent (teabaggers) who are nothing more than dittoheads out of the limbaugh closet.

almost NO left activists like west would dare to waste their time with the limbaughs and hannitys, yet they have a dominant say in what is and what isn't acceptable in the US now, and that coordinated unchallenged message over the last 20 years, while the left plugged in their CDs and ipods, is why we're in the is mess, whuy single payer wasn't on the table., why we're in iraq and afghanistan, why the banks were deregulated, why we're still 'debating' global warming, and why ayn randian wet dreamers like paul ryan are anywhere near the capitol.

this is really fucking stupid to keep having these obama bashing fests for the RW benefit while our local RW radio stations lie about all dems and liberals all day long and no one gets in their face.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
556. Too late for recommend but Obama certainly has catered to the
wrong side of the aisle in the overall direction of his policies. Unfortunately I think he will get a very rude awakening come 2012, that if you spend too much time trying to reach out and please the republicans and conservatives, America will pick the candidate with the official (R) after his name instead of you, why should they settle for a republican lite? That doesn't give them much of a choice.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
557. kick, and wish i could stil rec.
i saw west speak o (IIRC) Democracy Now!, and he was absolutely right.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
558. Interesting to compare this thread to the one in GDP on Melissa Harris-Perry
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Texano78704 Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #558
559. +1
eom
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
560. Oh Cornell West and Tavis Smiley, Jealous to the core and bring
nothing important to the debate. Goodluck with your agenda!
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-11 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
563. Welcome to the list Cornel.. Let Cindy & Ralph buy you a beer.
Sit with us, right here under the DU bus.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-18-11 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
564. Deleted message
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