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Would DSK have been denied bail by a male judge?

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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:43 AM
Original message
Would DSK have been denied bail by a male judge?
Is there any sexism involved in this pre-trial disposition?
I think it's almost inevitable, though justice is supposed to be blind.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes. To me it was an open and shut case of flight risk nt
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree.
I seriously doubt he would have stuck around.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Me too. n/t
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. They caught him at an airport boarding a plane. Obvious flight risk. n/t
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yes. Denial of bail was based, in part, on France's lack of an extradition treaty.
More than enough reason, alone, to deny bail.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. they got some guarentees they didnt get monday. but yes, i still think it is a huge
Edited on Thu May-19-11 08:48 AM by seabeyond
risk letting him out.

him being a powerful rich man, now that our system is aware, will afford him his privileges. like all the privileges he has had in past that allowed and enabled him to get away with being violent with women against their will
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Probably
they don't fuck around with sex crimes in Manhattan
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. A suspect with a lot of money, a passport, a means to depart. One could
certainly hope. But cannot say with accuracy, because crystal ball is cloudy this AM.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Of course. He's charged with a very serious crime,
Edited on Thu May-19-11 08:51 AM by MineralMan
and is a very serious flight risk. Further, France and the US do not have an extradition agreement that covers cases like this, so fleeing would ensure that he never had to answer the charges.

I want him to have a speedy, fair trial by a jury of New Yorkers. That's the only way justice will be served.

I do not know whether he is guilty or innocent. I just know that he has been charged with awful crimes. He must stand trial or plead guilty.

Unrecced for sexist assumption.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. that's stupid. he may or may not have been granted bail by another judge male or female
what do you think? that all women are driven by their vaginas? all men driven by their penises? Everyone driven by their ethnicity or skin color?

fuck I HATE stupid.
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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Sorry you feel that way. It was a legit question.
Please don't be stupid and presume ulterior motives on my part.
'later.
:thumbsdown:
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. "justice is supposed to be blind"
Yeah. No ulterior motives there...
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Supposed to be...it isn't...as the ruling in Bush v Gore proved...nt
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. So you're agreeing with the OP?
:shrug:
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I'm saying that we'd be foolish to assume those in authority always
do things according to what's right and just...how quickly we forget things...Gore v Bush was only about 10 years ago now. Oh, and the Iraq War? Yup, lies and more lies. But I guess hate of France takes precedent in this case.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh, yeah. It's hate of France.
Edited on Thu May-19-11 10:03 AM by Pithlet
Not the notion that women are irrational and THAT'S the reason she denied bail, which is expressly what the OP was saying. Maybe people are reacting to THAT notion negatively. No, it must be France Hate!

I want to get off this fucking planet some days.
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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. That's not what I "was saying" at all.
I was saying that we are all human beings, all moved by our inner self as well as influenced by the tenor of the times and the consensus morality and ethics of of where and when we live.
The judge is who she must be. 2011
Had the judge been a man he wouldn't have adjudicated any more perfectly than she.

Furthermore, that the icon of "justice" as a sightless arbiter of right and wrong is mythical...an ideal that should be unmasked as a fraud. Of course, I don't know whether justice is also supposed to be deaf. Does that blindfold cover the ears as well?
BTW no need to leave the planet. Just try to calm down a little.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. Apparently your selective reading comprehnsion has missed allt he digs at the French and how
they think rape is no big deal...try again.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. More.
Because no one outraged by this would be one bit bothered if this had anything to do with any other country, right? If this man had been from any other country, we'd be all whatever. Ridiculous. Hate on France? Really. So, if the OP claimed a female judge was biased because she was a woman, based on a case solely in the US, no one would be outraged? Please.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Look at some of the comments here,,,people are specifically noting the French attitude
towards this...guess you missed that...people always do when it does fit in with what they think they see and read.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nice try. n/t
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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. What 'try'?
You think you're a mind reader?
Don't have an opinion on my question, shut up.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. because shut up that's why
:eyes:
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Nobody has to read your mind. You asked and answered
your own question in the OP.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. That's like arguing that a gay judge can't make a fair ruling about Prop 8:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x963015
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. exactly
that kind of "thinking" is offensive.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. +1
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. No, because a male judge would understand that boys will be boys
Edited on Thu May-19-11 09:12 AM by Nye Bevan
and that when a fellow male encounters a hotel maid it is perfectly normal to chase her down a hallway, grab her, and forcibly insert his penis into her mouth. That woman judge just didn't get it, did she?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. He tried to flee
And I doubt France would extradite.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Evidence? Next-day Mercel meeting? Had lunch with daughter ? Why the BS

The guy is charged with serious crime. But he lives in the US much of the time -- 4 mil home in DC.
He was not going to be able to cross any border without a passport and not be recognized after all the
publicity.

Sexual assault charge is huge. Why all the extra phony flight-risk stuff sprinkled on the case? I does seem
a little weird.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Evidence that he was caught on an airplane?
Is there a dispute about that?
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Travelman Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. "Extra phony flight risk stuff?" Ask Roman Polanski.
Sheesh.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. YES, if the male judge has the same bias as the female judge. Flight risk is purely subjective
Edited on Thu May-19-11 09:32 AM by Distant Observer
in this case so it depends on the judge's subjective opinion.

The judge basically took accepted the argument of the prosecution.

Many people charge with more serious crimes that have residences in other countries as well as the US
are given bail. He will probably be given bail soon. The judge just did not want to be creative re.
reducing flight risk by the usual passport and monitoring methods.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. How do you know "The judge just did not want to be creative..."
Evidence?
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. The Judge said it. -- Said it was in her discretion and did not propose any options -- as she could
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
30. Yes.
And, no to sexism.

After the alleged attack he was in the process of very swiftly leaving the country.
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Travelman Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
36. Pretty safe to say that he is a flight risk
He was actually in the process of flight (literally, in this case) when they caught him. Yes, any judge, male, female, transsexual, eunuch, or Pat from SNL would have been and was right to deny him bail.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
38. Yes, because he's a flight risk. n/t
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
39. I would imagine that all things being equal...
I would imagine that all things being equal, if we are able to find enough instances of individuals indicted for sexual assault being denied bail by male judges in American jurisprudence, we can safely assume that sexism was not a notable factor unless and until we have valid evidence to the contrary... :shrug:
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