Banned light bulbs? Is the government saying no to incandescents?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/may/24/government-banning-incandescent-light-bulbs/

By Robert Farley

Published on Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 at 1:35 p.m.

It's a popular talking point for conservative lawmakers: They say Democrats are expanding government so much that they're now banning the trusty light bulb. But the law doesn't ban the bulbs, it just sets efficiency standards. And it passed with bipartisan support and was signed into law by a Republican president.


To illustrate their point that Democrats are expanding government too much, many Republican lawmakers are citing a new law on light bulbs.

The law, which sets standards to make the bulbs more efficient and reduce electricity use, has been derided by Reps. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., Joe Barton, R-Texas, and Rand Paul, R-Ky., and Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., as Exhibit A of the liberal assault on the free enterprise system.

A recent fundraising letter making the rounds from a conservative political action committee warns:

"The Democrats have already voted to BAN our conventional lights bulbs (that you and I use even today!) in favor of DANGEROUS fluorescent light bulbs."

That something so dim that makes a lot of hot air could be phased out.

Congratulations on a job well done.

:toast:

Don

Do you feel that changing the requirments is another way of banning something and do you think it would be more appropriate for the government to change the rules for bulbs they buy versus the ones the public buys?

As noted in my thread there were folks in colder areas who actually benefit from the heat from the bulbs (like in a barn near equipment to keep it warm, chickens, etc). Giving them the choice of both they could use the more efficient ones in their homes and the less efficient ones elsewhere.

it's common practice to put a single light in the pump house on those cold nights to keep the pump from freezing.


:smoke:

hell I thought all they got was an occasional frost and it doesn't take freezing temps to have frost.

If all want is a heat generator, there are conforming bulbs that will do that. Most of them are some sort of Quartz based product. Of course, they'll produce a bunch-o-LIGHT as well. But a 150 watt quarts lamp will generate about as much heat, or more.

Really, the fact that people have found a use for the "waste heat" isn't really a reason to continue to use them. The "solution" is to also provide people with something that will replace the function that waste heat filled. A small "space heater" would tend to accomplish this for roughly the same (or less) expended electricity.

If I worry about anything, it's my Christmas tree lights. I have small bulbs, but not the "twinkle" lights. Yes, I could see them making an LED equivalent, I'm just concerned that they will be VERY expensive for as little as they are used.

You'd need the kind of lights where one burned-out bulb doesn't kill the whole string (parallel wiring, not series) and you'd need a wall-wart transformer for them, but an LED Christmas tree bulb would contain three parts: the base, an LED and a resistor. The base might be a nickel, the LED a nickel and the resistor two cents...

;)

I just don't see it as being a good idea in some ways. I am glad you posted this though because some RW'ers on FB are all a flutter over it being all about Obama.

Give me incandescent or give me death I say :rofl: and here is a WND article I sent my frenemies on FB:

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=45156
(It notes that bush signed it - although dems were for it as well).

Sadly, I can see the same thing going on here as it did in Canada some years back. Lots of energy savings were made, electric bills were lowered, and the electric companies got less money and so got to raise their rates so that they could stay solvent and develop new projects....

(both used in brooders) are being affected.

Tesha

I think we should just make everything with a little glow-in-the-dark material....

Just like condoms :)

glow-in-the-dark carpet, glassware, doors...

who are stockpiling incandscent lightbulbs. Some use them to heat chicken coops, or water wells, or small storage or garage areas. Others don't want to have to replace fixtures to use the flourescent bulbs.

Banning the incandescent lightbulb is not an accomplishment to be proud of. It's really to bad the same part leaers that did this stupid shit couldn't manage to accomplish something far more meaningful. Public option healthcare. Ending a meaningless war or two.....

Way way way too many medium threaded base fixtures out there.

Instead, they'll stockpile?

Tesha

can't be used with many art glass lamps and fixtures.

Even when the lamp/fixture is constructed in such a way that they can be used the effect is considerably different because halogen, LED and flourescent lights all emit a different light sectrum than the incandescent bulbs.

> Halogen lamps can't be used with many art glass
> lamps and fixtures.

What form factor *ISN'T* made as a halogen lamp nowadays?


> because halogen, LED and flourescent lights all emit a
> different light sectrum than the incandescent bulbs.

Yeah, the spectrum from a halogen lamp is better
than that from any ordinary incandescent lamp.
But if you don't like it, out it on a dimmer,
turn it down to about 95%, and the spectrum
from a halogen lamp is *IDENTICAL* to the
spectrum from an ordinary incandescent lamp
(since they're both based entirely on glowing
tungsten).

Tesha

Who said naything about form factors?

The halogen light spectrum isn't better than the incandescent light spectrum. In many art glass lamps and fixtures it is worse.

Most of those art glass lamps and fixtures were designed to use light from the yellow wavelength of the light spectrum - which is generated by incandescent lighting. They were designed that way because that was the standard lighting method until recently.

The colors in the frickin lamps actually CHANGE when they are lit by blue wavelength spectrum. A dimmer doesn't change that - it just makes the light more or less intense. That can be a big deal when what was intended to look like a warm yellow with incandescent lighting suddenly looks like a sick green with blue spectrum lighting. Or when what was intended to look like grass looks more blue than green. Add yelow spectrum light to yellow glass and you get a more intense yellow light. Add blue spectrum light to yellow glass and you will get a greenish tint in that otherwise yellow glass. Basic color theory.

Temperature of the lighting is another issue. Lamps and fixtures may be irreparably damaged. A bulb that produces adequate light for an art glass fixture may produce too much heat depending on the manner in which the lamp/fixture was constructed.

I'll embrace beauty and creativity over commercialism any day. Mandating the death of incandescent lighting smacks of crass commercialism.

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Incandescent lamp colors, whether we're talking about
conventional incandescent lamps or tungsten-halogen
lamps, definitely *DO* change color as they are
dimmed. Incandescent lamps are, essentially,
"black body" radiators.

Halogen lamps run a bit hotter, but if you don't like
their slightly-higher color temperature, dim them to
about 95% of full brightness; they are then *PRECISELY
IDENTICAL* to conventional incandescent lamps.

They are also available in essentially all of the
same form factors as conventional incandescent
lamps with the exception that they don't come in
incredibly-low-efficiency "carbon filament replica"
lamps that seem to have become ever more popular
as energy has become ever more expensive.

Finally, a 60 watt A19 incandescent lamp is a 60
watt A19 lamp whether the filament is enclosed in
a halogen capsule or exposed naked to the argon or
nitrogen filling gas; they both get equally hot in
almost exactly the same way.

Tesha

CFLs, Halogens and LEDs are all made in versions that fit in standard sockets.

Some states (ex. CA) do require new fixtures when you remodel or build a new a home...but you're buying a new fixture anyway.

There is a whole hell of a lot more to light fixtures than sockets. A bulb can fit a socket and still not fit the fixture. Lots of decorative and art glass lamps and fixtures just became obsolete.

I'm not remodeling or building a new home. There is no reason why I should have to replace fixtures assuming they do not pose a fire or electrical hazard. Fixture replacement can be a significant expense - and we have lots of people who are already long-term unemployed, officially poor and/or food insecure. We expect them to bear the costs of replacing light fixtures while the fucking corporations get additional sales and earn more money. Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.

Congress can't entertain evidence regarding single payer healthcare and the President doesn't have the political capital or the spine to fight for a strong public option - but yet Washington can mandate that incandescent lightbulbs are no longer acceptable. Those are some pretty fucked up priorities.

So use an LED or halogen bulb instead.

being built. No way will the GOP repeal this thing. Just a fund raiser, total bull.

dangerous as they contain mercury.

www.epa.gov/epawaste/hazard/wastetypes/universal/lamps/

LEDs are continuing to gain rapidly in efficiency and color rendition.
They will replace all other lighting soon.

The EPA also tells us what to do with batteries, aerosol cans and so on. Nobody is clamoring for alternatives to those.

So would I eat 20 CFL bulbs? Nope. Would I panic if I broke one (much less likely than incandescents BTW)? No not really. I would get pets and kids out of the way of a broken incandescent and clean it up expeditiously and well too just like a CFL (wouldn't most people - that tiny thin glass is dangerous?).

Virtually everything in your house has something poisonous in it sooner or later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA2E14uKyZY

In the end fluorescent bulbs introduce LESS mercury into the environment instead of more. So no, it doesn't bother me in the least.

But the government needs to stay the fuck out of that. Just like smoking. Just like drugs. Just like prostitution. There should be am encouragement to quit smoking, an encouragement not to abuse drugs with education, an encouragement not to get an abortion, an encouragement to save energy on light bulbs,and then hands off. I don't smoke, but I think people should be able to smoke in restaurants and bars, and that there needs to be a smoking section, especially in airports, where there are fans that draw up the smoke in the smoking sections. Europeans are still allowed to smoke. It's personal choice. I'm tired of all the nazis deciding who can or cannot do what they please. It's like the mandate that MAKES Americans buy health insurance under the new law. IT SUCKS!!

I'm sick and tired of all these prissy laws. Stay out of my pocket, out of my uterus, out of my light bulbs.

I could give a shit whether you smoke or not. To each his own, but when you bring it into the public domain you violate my space.. Should the government regulate pissing in public, or shitting in public, neither of those actions puts out as much toxin as smoking does...Smoke yourself to death for all I care but do it in your own home...You got a problem with that?

"More importantly, we found the law does not ban incandescent light bulbs. The law is technology neutral; it requires new light bulbs meet new efficiency standards. It's true that the traditional versions of incandescent light bulbs do not meet those new standards and will be phased out of existence. Compact fluorescent and LED bulbs offer more efficient alternatives, but if incandescent light is your thing, the major light bulb makers have you covered. They are now selling halogen incandescent bulbs that meet the new efficiency standards. We ruled this claim Pants on Fire."

The gummint is setting efficiency standards which light bulb manufacturers are free to meet using any technology they choose.

"According to a spokeswoman for the Department of Energy, not only can people keep using their existing bulbs, stores can continue to sell the old ones -- even after the new standards are in place -- until they are sold out."

Setting energy efficiency standards is exactly the sort of economic regulation that government should do. It doesn't ban anything other than inefficiency.

If Americans are asked to do a damn thing or if we take any action for conservation then everyone becomes a Republican.

If fucks won't do this small sort of thing then there is no point in trying to do a damn thing and we may as well prepare to die in darkness in a few short generations.

Fucking idiotic and blindly suicidal. Not to mention a desire to waste energy and money like there is no limits at all.

Q: What is the cost difference between the new lights and my incandescent bulbs? How much money will I save when I switch to these new bulbs?

A: Upgrading 15 traditional incandescent bulbs in your home with energy-saving bulbs could save you about $50 per year.

While the initial price of the newer light bulbs is typically higher than the inefficient incandescent bulbs you are replacing, you'll spend less each year to operate them. Most CFLs pay for themselves with the energy they save in less than 9 months.

Average consumers will spend about $4.80 to operate a traditional incandescent bulb for a year (electricity cost). By comparison, average consumers will spend about $1.00 to operate an ENERGY STAR LED bulb, about $3.50 on a halogen incandescent bulb, and about $1.20 on an ENERGY STAR CFL bulb — each that produces about the same amount of light.

Approximate Operating Cost Per Year (in U.S. dollars)
Traditional Incandescent $4.80
Halogen Incandescent $3.50
ENERGY STAR CFL $1.20
ENERGY STAR LED $1.00

Also, an ENERGY STAR CFL bulb will typically last up to 10 times longer and an ENERGY STAR qualified LED bulb will last as much as 25 times longer than an incandescent bulb with the same light output (or lumens). Since the newer bulbs typically last longer, you have to replace them less frequently. Even with higher upfront purchase price added in, energy saving halogen incandescents, LEDs, and CFLs remain less expensive to consumers over the life of the individual bulb. Learn more about lighting choices that save you money.

We can save a bundle on electricity in the long term if we upgrade to a $5000 water heater.
Why not force everyone to buy a water heater they can't afford too?

large purchases can be amortized over a long period. Gore even proposed such green loans in his Congressional testimony back in 2007.

People can just swipe their WIC cards and buy hybrids, mmkay?

Because that is the equivalent government 'mandate'.

Especially those that hurt the consumer when the benefits to the
environment are marginal at best.

I'll give you a couple examples.
Restrictions on emissions make fuel efficient turbo diesels cost impractical to offer here.
Requiring fuels to be blended differently depending on where its going.
Standards that drive the cost of a light bulb up 500% while the consumption of a single bulb in a single warehouse light fixture at the nearest big box store is equal to 3 or 4 residential households full of lamps.

When you buy a new water heater, it too has to be manufactured to be compliant with energy efficiency standards. Of course you are not required to buy a new water heater, nor a new light bulb, and you can buy older less efficient models and save a few bucks.

Sorry if you find actual data to be bullshit.

every time I've used the new twisty light bulbs, they've burnt out about 3 times as fast as the old incandescent ones. Is this a rip-off or what? First you have to pay considerably more, then they typically burn out within the first three months, so you never reach that 9-month point where they start paying for themsselves.

Sorry, I hate to be in company with the repubs on this, but when the claims of "longer life" are contradicted by experience, I wonder what's going on. Anybody else have this happen with them?

they appear to last somewhere near forever.

And that's for a bulb that is on a LOT! Like the one in the garage. Since we haven't a garage in the basement, we go out that way with the dog, so that light is on a real lot. And, i replace it no more than once every 3 years.

I've got a three way bulb in a basement rec room lamp that's been there at least 5 years. And, since it's a basement, that light is nearly always on, so we don't trip as we walk into that room. (Pets hand out there.) Yet, at least 5 years.

So, i'm with you on this.
GAC

needed an adaptor to screw them into incandescent sockets but after they started to become mass produced and after all the "studies" were done they started making them cheaper and they aren't designed to last as long. Why would they want that? I'd dump my GE stock in a heartbeat if they made a lightbulb that lasted a hundred years.

If the light is going to be on for less than about 10 minutes (ex: closet, bathroom) do not use a CFL. The life of the CFL plummets if you turn it on and off quickly. Use a halogen or an LED in those applications.

Especially if you don't use them all that much.

I don't take any special care to avoid that, but I generally only turn on and off rapidly in bathrooms etc.

...where the ballast electronics will run too hot.

Tesha

choice.

...than a conventional incandescent lamp. And the
halogen lamp will last several times longer as well.

Tesha

do CFLs last 10 times longer then traditional incandescent, in fact
it has been my experience that they about the same amount of time.

A single pack. Because I didn't need more than one nor did I want to spent $9 or more for more than one bulb.

Searching the Web, I can't find single bulbs cheap, but only multipacks, and who's going to pay shipping on such a cheap item? But if you keep your eyes open, you'll occasionally find $2 bulbs at the store -- places like Ace Hardware, Western Auto, even drugstores have occasional sales. And keep in mind that buying single items is the most expensive way to shop -- buy six, keep the extras in the pantry, and you'll get your money's worth eventually. It takes money to save money, indeed.

http://palmdons.com/product_info.php?&i=B000NISDNU
http://palmdons.com/product_info.php?c=07&n=1063498&i=B000UYF80S&x=GE_26_Watt_Energy_Smart_CFL_6_Pack_100_Watt_Replacement

Was I suppose to save the planet and save money burning $4/gal gas hunting down a bargain to save $3?

...rather short life (say, 1,000 hours).

The equivalent CFL will consume $4 in electricity
during that period, but it will then keep on running
for about another 9,000 hours or so, continuing to
save you $12.50 (say the incandescent costs $0.50)
every 1,000 hours.

When one looks at overall life-cycle costs, only a
very short-sighted person thinks incandescent lamps
are cheaper.

Tesha

Why make a larger investment if I'm not even going to be living in the same place or using the same lamp?

And not to brag but our energy is cheaper here I guess. And it's a co-op!

But in that case, there's no worry about replacing it
because you won't need to do it, will you? So the "ban"
won't affect you. And even if you do need to replace
it, buy a halogen lamp for a couple of bucks and you'll
be good to go for another few decades.

Tesha

The halogen bulbs that I have seen need special lamps with power supplies and things like that. And they get super hot and use lots of electricity.
MAybe there is some bulb I've never seen before?


I do have a portable work light that is halogen. I'm terrified of using it because it gets so hot. Its 1,000 watts total.

http://www.hardwareharbor.com/60w-halogen-bulb-a19-by-sylvania-lighting.aspx

Inside the outer frosted glass bulb is the small
halogen capsule. You get all the advantages along
with a lamp that looks and works just like a
conventional incandescent lamp.

The one I've linked is made by Sylvania, but all
of the manufacturers make something like this.

Tesha

I don't understand why you favor these.
That bulb you linked to is 60 watts so no energy savings and it's 5 times the price of an incandescent bulb.
What's the point?

As a result:

o The filament can be allowed to run hotter, giving you
a more-white light.

o Also as a result of the filament running hotter, that bulb
gives you more light per Watt of electricity; you could
probably replace a 75 Watt lamp with this 60 Watt lamp.

o Even though the filament is running hotter, because of
the "halogen cycle", this bulb will last 2 to 3 times longer
than a conventional incandescent bulb, So take its cost
and divide it by 2 or 3. This long life is also handy if the
bulb is in an inconvenient-to-reach spot.

These characteristics I've outlined here are true for all
halogen incandescent lamps and so far, halogen lamps
remain completely legal and widely available.

And that's why I think all of this is much ado about nothing,
merely Republican-inspired trouble.

Tesha

If someone only has $80 a week to spend on groceries and supplies, and they plan to cut their energy bill by simply not using the lamps anymore than they have to, how can you persuade them to go without sustenance so they can instead send more of that money buying a made in china bulb that costs 2-3 times more?

If this person truly doesn't use this lamp much,
then there's no problem: the existing bulb won't
ever burn out.

And if they do use the lamp a lot, then maybe
they should just spend the $2 that a CFL will
cost them; within a very few months, they'll
make up the $2 in savings from their electric
bill.

Tesha

LEDs now come in all colors from amber to cold white. In fact I am finding that the daylight white which is 55kelvin much easier to see by with in operable cataracts than the indcands and old style flurescents that were in the kitchen when we moved in. Those lights took 580 watts, now I can see much better and am only expending 80 watts, I kid you not. Not only that Im getting 5650 lumens when before I was getting about 3,000 lumens from all the lights for that 580 watts. The 4 foot led replacements for fluros give 2,000 lumens for 22 watts (per tube) when the old fluros took 40 watts to give 800 to 1000 lumens and the lumens start dropping off after about 6mos. Plus you take out the ballasts because they are not needed and they eat another 30 watts or so.

My green house for starting gardens and keeping the few tropicals I have surviving took 1080 watts and a whole pile of 4ft fluros, now I have 6 fixtures with 2 2,000 lumen each so 44 watts per 2 tube fixture x 6=264 watts and 12,000 lumens..and I have orchids in bloom in Feb.
The LEDs have paid for themselves in lower power bills and not having to climb up and replacing 4 ft fl every year or two. Our power bills are 150 to 200 instead of 300 to 450. Saving 2500$ in power bills. We have only had one fail out of the 30 or so we have bought.

Sams club carries the smaller led (3.4 watts=to a 50 60 watt bulb) in pairs for 15 to 19$. I am also using the flood lights 17$, they use 3.4 watts too while they dont light up the place like a ball field its enough to see pretty well around the house. The work on some kinds of motion sensor lights ..come in handy when the deer try to graze our garden.

I might be too serious, but I cannot afford the power bills. I did this as a way to survive, not be in debt (as much as can be managed).

Hopefully to be informative.
CRI is color rendering index, if you need light for make up or color matching look for cris above 78 the higher the number the better color rendering which is not the bulb color, that is measured in Kelvin degrees.
2700 to 3500 are warm white like incandesets the lower the number the yellower the light color to your eyes.
3500 to about 4700 medium(dawn daylight) 5500(perfect for plants)commercial white or daylight white. 6000+ going into blue spectrum cold white/cool white.

I find the 5500 perfect for kitchen lighting, it fills the shadows and shows that I need to clean the white sink more often!

eaglelight.com is where I get my 4 ft fl replacements roi is about 3yrs.

They look great and my clients are REALLY happy.

The kitchen is lit up like a landing strip IF they require it. Or they can control the lighting by switches or by dimmer.

The lights are 65 watt equivalent. We did a side by side test and they are pretty darn close. The lights use 10 watts so we are drawing a total of 100 watts versus 650 watts if we went incandescent.

They were pricey at 39 bucks, call it 40, apiece. But when you look at the cost to trim out and provide a bulb in a new can-light it's not THAT bad. You are looking at 5 or 6 bucks for a decent halogen and 8 or 9 bucks minimum for a HALO brand baffle trim ring to go with the HALO can (I only use HALO).

Using that math, the premium is about 25 bucks for an 80% savings in energy AND heat output working against AC.

Note: The 39 bucks included an instant savings of 10 bucks provided by our power company, COM ED. I saw them down-state for $49.

I'm going to start retro-fitting my 26 can-lights on a room by room basis due to the cost.

Where's the OUTRAGE!!!??

the new bulbs don't work properly at -40.

I had cfls in our outdoor lights..they did not work below like 40 degrees, is why I got the first LEDs @ Sams club..they have worked to 2degrees F(I guess they might work at lower temp that is about as cold as it gets here and damn cold enough).

I love them, keep buying them but slowly, as the price keeps dropping.

Last for 30, 50, 100 thousand hours.

Solid State lighting.

It's the future.

:patriot:

better light than the CFL I took out:

http://www.polar-ray.com/product.asp?itemid=235&gclid=CLm30Pa1hKkCFURd5QoddnSBhg

That is the latest. There is one before that, slightly less bright, not dimmable, $20.

I tried to convince one of my clients that she could still get incand bulbs but she was certain they would be gone by January. I haven't seen her since to see if she stocked up or what.

Shelves are empty here other than flood lamps

So should LED lamps.

I'm sorry, buoutou don't have a valid reason
there for staying with old, inefficient, conventional
incandescent lamps.

Tesha

They can have my Easy-Bake Oven when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

...incandescent lights my house. Most are CFL with a couple LEDs which I will be using more and more as the price gets sane.

That said, I don't like this sort of government interference. If we're going to let people drive Hummers then I find the idea of banning certain light bulbs ridiculous.

This from a news article: "The Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (BULB) is intended to repeal the amendment that was attached to a comprehensive energy bill signed by President George W. Bush in 2007. The ban on incandescent light bulbs was intended to save energy and limit pollution.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/17/enzi-introduces-bill-to-repeal-incandescent-light-bulb-ban/#ixzz1NNiRsVTE

Seems unfair to characterize it as just Dem legislation.

Is a very inefficient heating device that also gives off a small amount of light.

Greenland, Iceland and the Nordic countries don't use incandescent bulbs.

You know those countries that are in or near the Arctic circle..?

Anyway.... I'll let them get back to the logic of using a lot of expensive electricity in inappropriate ways.

The manager who helped me commented that the old style bulbs would not be available "next year". I didn't ask him the source of his information - stupidly assuming he'd gotten the word from corporate purchasing. I did ask him how one safely disposed of the new style bulbs and he said he didn't know. I think I'll contact Ace corporate headquarters and suggest they send a memo to their stores with accurate information.

They're too bright for my eyes and they give me headaches.

...CFL (I think?) ones that are the spiral design? Yeah, those. Anyway, they work just as efficiently, although they really don't save me any noticeable money. I saw maybe a dollar's difference per light bill. Then again, I didn't do it for the light bill. I did it because they were supposed to last longer.

I had to replace 3 of them within the first year though. :( I was very disappointed to discover that they have no real life expectancy in high-moisture areas in my home (this may or may not be true of other folk's homes...I rent, so it could be a wiring problem I suppose. I'm not really allowed to look into it and find out.) But one simply ceased working, one went so dim as to be weaker than a 25-watt incandescent, and the last one...well, it kind of pop-crack-kaplooey-sounded-like-it-exploded. KER-SPLAT-ZZZZ-ACK-CRACK! Kind of frightening, but funny in hindsight. :)

I'm hoping the technology gets a bit more stable...SOON. I haven't even seen these LED lights in my stores yet. Admittedly, I don't wander into areas of the store I am not presently in need of, though, so it may be a simple matter of overlooking them.

The life of a CFL bulb plummets if you turn it on and off quickly. If the light isn't going to spend most of it's life on for 10 minutes or more, don't use a CFL. Use a halogen or an LED.

Thanks Jeff, I really didn't know that.

I've grown up with 'turn the light off when not in use', and my friends accuse me of being vampiric to begin with, so that might explain why they didn't work so well for me.

I think I've got a reason to look for these LED ones now. Time to go to the People Aquarium (the mall). :)

The CFLs contain mercury. They are not produced in the U.S. but in China where environmental controls are missing and where factories are powered with dirty coal burning, mercury and carbon emitting Chinese power plants.

With the CFLs we will have billions of CFL's polluting our landfills and leaking mercury back into our environment. And when a CFL breaks in the home these "safe and green" light bulbs require an EPA clean up plan consisting of 12-steps including room evacuation. A terrible idea and yes the law bans incandescents as the OP well knows. Stop with the word games.

Second, that EPA clean-up plan is an urban legend. CFLs contain the same materials as 'tube' fluorescent lights, and require similar handling.

Third, an "incandescent" light bulb just means it creates light by heating a filament. So there are incandescent light bulbs that comply with the new efficiency requirements. Halogen bulbs, for example, are incandescent and comply with the rules.

Fourth, where do you think your beloved bulbs are created? They're also made in China.

I would like to nominate your post for highest density of "wrong" in a single post.

You should take that up with the EPA http://homerepair.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=homerepair&cdn=homegarden&tm=30&f=00&su=p284.9.336.ip_p504.1.336.ip_&tt=29&bt=1&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.pdf

Made in China, huh? http://www.usstuff.com/lightinc.htm

I guess your post get nominated for the highest density of wrong.

You query made me google. :)

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/news/4217864

About 50 percent of the electricity produced in the U.S. is generated by coal-fired power plants. When coal burns to produce electricity, mercury naturally contained in the coal releases into the air. In 2006, coal-fired power plants produced 1,971 billion kilowatt hours (kwh) of electricity, emitting 50.7 tons of mercury into the air—the equivalent amount of mercury contained in more than 9 billion CFLs (the bulbs emit zero mercury when in use or being handled).

Approximately 0.0234 mg of mercury—plus carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide—releases into the air per 1 kwh of electricity that a coal-fired power plant generates. Over the 7500-hour average range of one CFL, then, a plant will emit 13.16 mg of mercury to sustain a 75-watt incandescent bulb but only 3.51 mg of mercury to sustain a 20-watt CFL (the lightning equivalent of a 75-watt traditional bulb). Even if the mercury contained in a CFL was directly released into the atmosphere, an incandescent would still contribute 4.65 more milligrams of mercury into the environment over its lifetime.

Read more: Compact Fluorescent Bulbs and Mercury: Reality Check - Popular Mechanics

So the energy savings is minimal. Of course I guess you don't care about the coal fired plants in China that produce the energy for the factories that make them. They produce mercury and waste. That goes into the world's atmosphere. But as long as WE can feel good about saving the earth!! That is all that counts!

Switching them on and off every five minutes might wear them out faster. I doubt that doing that twice a day is.
I've got some bulbs that have been working for about 5 years now-one of them in a fixture that blew out an incandescent every 4 months.

The level of disinformation is, unfortunately, entirely typical.

I've been using them, and I no longer have incandescents in use anywhere but appliances. I've never made the slightest effort to avoid turning them off and on; used them just like incandescents. They last a LOT longer than incandescents, even when you buy the cheapest brand you can find. Ace Hardware started selling them for $1/$2 apiece for 13W/26W bulbs, which are replacements for 60W/100W incandescents.

Switching to CFLs definitely saw my electric bills drop when I lived in a small apt, and lights were my biggest use of electricity during the winter.

I just don't get the resitance to CFL's. They're not experimental. Incandescents are 19th Century technology, and rightly abandoned.

on the life of CFLs vs incandescent.
Above the vanity are 2 lights on a single switch, put CFL in 1 and incandescent in the other, both bulbs
were brand new. Have replaced the CFL 3 times and am still on the original incandescent. The first CFL
lasted exactly 4 days
They don't save enough energy to replace them that often

If so, then CFLs probably aren't appropriate for those
light fixtures (and the CFL packaging says that).

Alternatively, were all three failures from the same pack
of lamps? Maybe that brand is just junk? Did you take
them back to the store and get your money back?

I ask because my experience with CFLs is diametrically
opposite from yours: I've replace ordinary incandescent
(and some halogen) lamps with CFLs and have had far
fewer failures than I had with the incandescents. Among
the (literally dozens of) CFLs that are installed at out house,
we had two "infancy" failures of a particular model of CFL,
we've worn four out in "nightlight" service (24x7 operation)
and all the rest are still chugging along. This even includes
two CFLs in our garage door opener where the vibration
used to kill incandescent lamps quickly.

CFLs, when properly applied, seem to be very reliable and
quite long-lived.

Tesha

I know: insignificant chicken feed. :eyes:

Tesha

Any lie about anything will do too. I have seen it happen over and over again. They will fight tooth and nail to keep themselves and others believing it is true even when it is proven to be right wing bull shit. They just can't let it go.

Funny world isn't it?

Don

But clearly, anything, no matter how asinine, will gain traction with the right.

Some people just seem determined to dislike these bulbs for some reason. It's like hanging on to Model T Fords or Edison Gramophones and insisting that the new technology just can't compare somehow. It's no more credible for light bulbs than it would be for cars or record players.

But they are going to be increasingly harder to come by as the switch is made to CFL's and LED's. I'm glad that other people can use those lights, but they are not going to be be in my home. Due to an eye injury my wife simply cannot tolerate the light from those types of bulbs. So I guess I will soon be making a major purchase of incandescents to last the rest of our lifetime.

...to the light from ordinary incandescent lamps
(and to the degree that it differs, they're almost-
universally perceived as providing *BETTER* quality
light).

And if you want it to be truly identical, put them
on a dimmer and turn them down to about 95%; at that
point, the light from the glowing tungsten filament
in a halogen lamp *IS IDENTICAL* to the light from
the glowing tungsten filament of an ordinary incan-
descent lamp.

Tesha

The scarring that her pupil has sustained doesn't allow for full closure, and there is a limited range of options that doesn't hurt her.

And no, I'm not going to go around and retrofit every single overhead fixture, lamp, or other light source with dimmers in the vague hope that they work.

- what is sad is that most replacement bulbs, compact fluorescents, are NOT made in the US.

The plant that closed is near where my mom lives. Interesting article here > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090706933.html

Sorry, but this is so bassackwards it defies logic.

The U.S. military is THE biggest consumer of fossil fuels on the planet. People who think switching out their light bulbs is going to make some kind meaningful impact in planetary energy use are delusional.

So now that the U.S. has lost yet another piece of our manufacturing sector to China what's the realword impact? More dirty coal burning power plants in China, and more job losses here.

How stupid can we get?

sw

by converting just the school district lighting to high efficiency systems. The people arguing against energy efficiency standards "because of the cost" are out of their minds.