A young man, driven by hunger and desperation, stole groceries from my neighbor yesterday..

I just got back in from talking to my neighbor this morning.

She told me that she had 3 bags full of groceries stolen from her car yesterday. Apparently she had just finished doing her weekly food shopping and, leaving the car unlocked and running, made a quick trip into the post office. As she was walking back out, she saw that her car door was wide open and a there was a young man running off w/some of her groceries. She said that he looked to be about 14 to 16 years of age, thin and a bit disheveled.

He hadn't gotten very far. In fact, she said she probably could have caught up w/him if she wanted to. But instead, she just watched as he went off. Before he turned the corner onto another street, he briefly looked back and they made eye-contact. He looked scared she said, and sad. Then in that very brief moment, he mouthed the words, "I'm sorry", and continued on.

Stunned, she slowly got back in her car. Nothing but the food had been taken. Not her GPS, nor even her laptop which was in the back seat covered by the groceries that the young man had taken. He had to have seen it.

She says she cannot stop thinking about the whole incident and especially that very brief exchange they had had. He had missed one other bag and she briefly considered trying to catch up w/him and hand over that one too. But didn't. She said she is angry w/herself for not having tried to find him. I consoled her as best I could, but she was still clearly deep in thought as we parted company. And now, so am I.

What is happening to us as country?

I read an article where people would find an animal walking around (lots of cows in Argentina) and people would swarm it, kill it and fight over the kill. They lamented their loss of civility.

went in there, got food and sat on the doorstep to eat it they were so hungry.

By your actions we shall know ye. God help us all.

At my food banks I volunteer at. :-(

In times to come. As more and more social services are cut, because we have to keep feeding that war machine, while of course the tax cuts for the wealthy are out of the question to consider as a target! Well done, Obama and the Democrats! This bipartisanship thing with the GOP is once again working out beautifully.

and they don't have to vote on many things. The Democratic leaders are trying to stop it.

This story of "they all are the same is a Faux News talking point"....this same mentality is why people stayed home and didn't vote in 2010.

The Republicans have told you exactly what they want to do, from the Governer level to their state legislatures to DC. It is NOT the Democratic Governers doing this.

Put the blame where it needs to be.

Stay home and don't vote just like in 2010 and then try to blame the minority Democratic members for failing to stop it.....repeat....rinse....and round and round we go.

WHO is pushing Tax Cuts for the wealthy? Look at Ryans plan he gives even more tax cuts to the wealthy, luckily the Senate put a kabosh on that bullshit....Look at the Wisconsin, Florida and Ohio Governers ALL of them are giving huge tax cuts to the wealthy while cutting all types of spending for the common folks.

Wake up unless you, me and others put more PROGRESSIVE Democratic House members in to place we will not stop this. This is a Democracy and we have responsibilities.

I will agree with you about the war: The Democratic House tried to stop the war with a bill last week the Republicans and blue dog Dems stopped it. Let's get rid of the Blue Dogs...

Before that the Dems controlled EVERYTHING. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama couldn't do jack shit. Why? Because they didn't want to bad enough. They don't care enough. They are all millionaires and the average American can, in the words of Marie Antoinette, "eat shit".

Conservatism it is a disease and it needs to be eradicated.

It is, indeed.

Maybe we should start referring to it that way. Start planting that seed. Jesus certainly wasn't a CONservative. The poor and hungry and outcast were the people He cared about most.

Btw - Welcome to DU, gop_equals_taliban!

They're corporate whores, not conservatives. They know the Reagan-era lines and use them. They know the teabagger lines and use them. They know the FOX Noise lines and use them. Nothing about the GOP at the Federal level qualifies for "conservative".

Most people would call me a liberal, but in many ways I'm more conservative than anyone in Congress. As for Jesus, the so called "Christians" of the GOP would crucify him all over again - fucking liberal weirdo hippie freak. The GOP is great at talking about Jesus, but they don't follow a fucking thing that's even close to what he actually said to do. The GOP assholes need jumpsuits with logos for all of their corporate sponsors - just like NASCAR.

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Actually, conservatism is a form of brain damage, an enlarged amygdala. Conservatives fear the illogical, Sharia Law, for instance, and ignore the factual danger of global climate change because their authority figures tell them to. If we do not find a way to cure them or diminish their influence, well, the survival of our democracy if not all of human culture hangs in the balance.

who has been in charge these past few years.

The environment, our rights... there are lots of things I want to treat conservatively. Using words that can be broadly interpreted like Conservatism and assuming that all people will read that word in exactly the same way, sets you up to lose the discussion almost immediately.

and human rights -- that's not what GOP/rw Elites have been doing -- far from it!!

next week...
tell her to be patient and that I think she's a very good person. Your story made my morning.
Thanks

A member of my home board had posted this astute analysis by a financial expert on

"Why the Rich Love High Unemployment"

http://www.washingtonsblo...e-high-unemployment.html



Guest Post by Mark Provost. Mark has more than ten years experience as an equity analyst, specializing in the semiconductor and wireless industry. Mark writes regularly about the US economy for Dollars & Sense, ZMag, Truthout, and Global Research.

Excerpt:

Another consequence of labor-market flexibility has been the shift from full-time jobs to temporary positions. In 2010, 26 percent of all news jobs were temporary <10> - compared with less than 11 percent in the early 1990's recovery and just 7.1 percent in the early 2000's. The American model of high productivity and low pay has friends in high places. Former Obama adviser and General Motors (GM) car czar Steven Rattner argues <11> that America's unemployment crisis is a sign of strength:

Perversely, the nagging high jobless rate reflects two of the most promising attributes of the American economy: its flexibility and its productivity. Eliminating jobs - with all the wrenching human costs - raises productivity and, thereby, competitiveness. Unusually, US productivity grew right through the recession; normally, companies can't reduce costs fast enough to keep productivity from falling. That kind of efficiency is perhaps our most precious economic asset. However tempting it may be, we need to resist tinkering with the labor market. Policy proposals aimed too directly at raising employment may well collaterally end up dragging on productivity. Rattner comes dangerously close to articulating a full-unemployment policy. He suggests unemployed workers don't merit the same massive government intervention that served GM and the banks so well. When Wall Street was on the ropes, both administrations sensibly argued, "doing nothing is not an option." For the long-term unemployed, doing nothing appears to be Washington's preferred policy.

The unemployment crisis has been a godsend for America's superrich, who own the vast majority of financial assets - stocks, bonds, currency and commodities.
Persistent unemployment and weak unions have changed the American workforce into a buyers' market - job seekers and workers are now "price takers" rather than "price makers." Obama's recovery shares with Reagan's early years the distinction of being the only two post-war expansions where wage concessions have been the rule rather than the exception. The year 2009 marked the slowest wage growth on record, followed by the second slowest in 2010.<2>

America's labor market depression propels asset price appreciation. In the last two years, US corporate profits and share prices rose at the fastest pace in history - and the fastest in the G-7. Considering the source of profits, the soaring stock market appears less a beacon of prosperity than a reliable proxy for America's new misery index. Mark Whitehouse of The Wall Street Journal describes <12> Obama's hamster wheel recovery:

From mid-2009 through the end of 2010, output per hour at U.S. nonfarm businesses rose 5.2% as companies found ways to squeeze more from their existing workers. But the lion's share of that gain went to shareholders in the form of record profits, rather than to workers in the form of raises. Hourly wages, adjusted for inflation, rose only 0.3%, according to the Labor Department. In other words, companies shared only 6% of productivity gains with their workers. That compares to 58% since records began in 1947.

More from above article at link:

Jobs? You don't need no stinking jobs, say Republicans

I guess the almighty dollar is far more important to these companies then their disposable workers. :grr:

Thank you for the article an link. I'm looking forward to reading the rest when I get a chance.

if you want to see the starving end, get rid of the economic system that is killing most of us.

It's pure economics.

could go home tomorrow, and it would not change the business climate one bit. All they'd do is ship MORE jobs overseas, to keep unemployment high, because THAT is what they want.

Illegal immigration is a red herring - a distraction to keep the proles fighting each other instead of storming the manor house.

It serves to focus the anger a large segment of right wing Americans. Illegal immigration outrage is a RW tool.

thank you!!

Interesting. What do you suppose illegals do here?

Pick lettuce, take care of kids, build houses, etc.

They work in jobs that by their very nature CANNOT be outsourced.

But just think about it: what does the availability of massive quantities of cheap labor do to the average value of the laborer?

:toast:

but apparently pointing out that blatant fact is racist or whatever.

I mean how could adding 10 million cheap laborers possibly affect the price of labor?

:sarcasm:

You loved the Arizona shit when it went down, and now this.

By their very nature, undocumented (people are NOT "illegal"!) immigrants are notoriously difficult to count.

really can't afford my favorite snacks or cigarettes anymore (incentive to quit, thank you very much) then read that story. Who knows what the young man's situation was, who was ill, weak, etc. Wow. I hope someone smacks me on the side of the head the next time I complain.

had that kid jumped in her car and taken off with the entire deal.

Her good heartedness aside, what sort of idiot leaves a car unlocked and running...even for a few seconds?


What if that kid...or someone else...had stolen her car and driven off in a panic running down some pedestrians or crashing into another car containing a mom and her kids, killing them all?


Kudos to your neighbor for caring about a starving young man, but really, her neglect could have been the cause of a real tragedy. Tell her next time to leave the car unlocked if she wants to be robbed, but shut the damned car off and take the keys.

People like my sister who used to live in the 'country' sometimes do that. I know my mother used to do it too.

for some time now.

I live in the woods. I always lock my house up at night, and my car doors are locked at all times.

When I go anywhere I lock the car doors, even if it's only out to the dinky little family restaurant in town on Sunday mornings.

And that only takes care of the locking issue. I suppose if people don't care about stuff being stolen from their cars, let them do what they want...just don't complain to the police when it happens.

The other issue is leaving the car running. Like it couldn't jump out of gear for some strange reason and crash through a storefront or mow down a mom walking her baby along the sidewalk. I can see a foolish teenager doing this, but not a grown adult who should know better.

I seriously believe that anybody who leaves an unattended car running while s/he pops into a store for "just a minute" should have his/her license suspended for a while.

office. The car jumped out of gear and took off in reverse, the woman saw it and ran after it screaming at people to "GET OUT OF THE WAY"!!! The car ended up knocking the fence down of a house across the street. It's a wonder no one was killed or injured and the woman didn't end up in real trouble. I bet she never left her car running again.

in winter i start the car to warm it up, go inside, get my daugher, bring her out, put her in her seat all while the car is running. if the car manages to push the clutch down and shift itself into gear i will be truly amazed.

"I suppose if people don't care about stuff being stolen from their cars, let them do what they want...just don't complain to the police when it happens."

Some people have it, others don't. This person clearly doesn't worry as much as you, about 'stuff'.

.

When you grow up not having a lot of stuff, it does come to have a certain meaning to you.

When my children were very small, we didn't have a lot, either. I would leave empty boxes on the pantry shelves to fool people into thinking we weren't as poor as we were. One person wasn't fooled, however. He checked the boxes, found they were empty, and then bought groceries for us.

We bought our clothing at the Salvation Army or Goodwill. We had almost nothing when my apartment was broken into one night and someone stole my old console stereo. The only comfort I had on days and nights when it was just me and the kids living in a shitty part of town in a six family tenement that more often than not would have fight going on outside the bedroom windows. My son has told me many times how he remembered waking up in the middle of the night and hearing the music playing softly, and being comforted enough to go back to sleep. Mom was there, with her music, and he was safe.


And yeah...my stuff. In my purse that was stolen was the one and only photo I had of my daughter who died at the age of 3 months. I probably should have left it home where it would be safe, but I wanted it with me at all times. The only photo I ever had is gone now.

That, probably more than anything, hurt the most. I got over the loss of my checkbook and ATM card and keys and makeup. They're replaceable. I'll never replace that photo.

I think unless you have walked and lived in someone else's shoes, it's just nasty to suggest that they shouldn't care about their "stuff".

Leaving a motor vehicle unattended with the engine running invites all sorts of mishaps, mischief, and even death.

and if you do leave your car running and it does get stolen your insurance company
is not liable

'running.' But for a different reason....it's a damn waste of fuel and it is fucking polluting the air.

I live in a 4-season climate and people will go out and let their cars 'warm up' for 15 to 30 minutes. I just love the smell of gasoline as I walk by. Or leave their cars running while they go into the store and shop....just so it is warm for them.

I think it is disrespectful to pollute your community's air and to waste the Earth's Peak Oil.

I don't care if you lock your doors or not....I do, but only because as a teenager I found a man sitting behind the driver's seat waiting for me to get in. Mom always said, "Look in the back seat before you get in." Saved me from a terrible experience. So I lock. But I certainly try not to live my life in fear.

If you want to rob my house, go ahead. Just leave my physical being alone. I have insurance. But I have crappy stuff. Just a 19" TV and silly memorabilia. And my car isn't fancy.

One time a gang of boyz tried to steal my purse. I said, 'If you guys had any sense, you'd rob someone with money.' They left.

edit for typo

when you had to hand-crank your car to start it, you didn't want to shut it off if you didn't have to. With electric starters, this is no longer an excuse. I used to hear that the fuel used to start your car was about the same as what it took to idle the engine for ~one minute, so if you were going inside for more than a minute, you should just shut the engine off. Modern cars use even less fuel to start, so there's really no excuse for leaving the engine running, unless you are having mechanical trouble or really low temps and fear it might not restart. People just haven't adjusted their (non)thinking since the days of Model T's.

Here in the hot, humid South it's all too common to see people running their engines to keep the A/C going. I'll never forget seeing someone in a parking lot in MD running the AC in their SUV full blast with all the windows OPEN so they could smoke in the car without having to breathe their own second-hand smoke. It was no more than comfortably warm outside, and I could feel the icy blast as I walked past. It's like some people have a GHG quota to fill.

I have 2 sets of keys....if I want to let it idle to warm it up I can lock it and no one but a real
thief will get it. How much do a couple of key copies cost...virtually nothing. And if you accidentally lock your keys in the car your good to go. If its the electronic key or a key with a chip
it will cost you more, but its worth it. Then go and donate your time at a homeless shelter and really
help these people.

so it will be awhile before we get over the habit. LOL

if someone stole $300 worth of groceries from my car. It's okay to steal from me, but not from the store? How do they know I'm not poor too.

Was it okay for them to steal $20,000 worth of clothes too? Where does it end.

http://mj.933flz.com/script2/print.php?page=/pages/mainfeed.html&article_id=8538894&feed_id=204719

And he sucked her blood?

Or what if he used her laptop to hack into the DoD mainframe?

Or what if he took the car and ran into a nuclear missile truck?!?


Sure, good advice is nice, but I swear some people just pop in to wag their fingers.

and not how it happened, I doubt very much that I "just popped in to wag my finger".


Also, I believe it would be more likely that someone would steal the car and get involved in a tragic accident involving cars or humans than be a vampire, hit a truck carrying nukes, or use a laptop to hack into the DoD Mainframe.

If you're going to mock someone for thinking ahead, I guess it always helps to use extreme examples...

:eyes:

SHIT! Better stop parking anywhere but your garage!

I'm 'mocking' someone, not for 'thinking ahead', but for taking advantage of an opportunity to admonish someone else for not thinking of the possibility that someone would steal groceries out of her car in the window of a minute or two.

I don't mind adding that anyone stealing a car is just as likely to drive cool and composed because they might have some degree of understanding that 'flooring it' attracts attention they don't want.

The likely-hood of any one of the above is equal to any other. NOT being paranoid about every damn thing you do all day is not a crime, and as much as you'd like to vilify everyone who lives with realistic expectations, the bottom line is the same;

You, "Pipi_K", have FUCKED UP many hundreds of times (at least) where you could or should have done something smarter, better, or with greater care than you did, but because the odds were against it, nothing horrible fucking happened to you.

The day that it does will be the same day you actually fucking get it.

Until that day, keep your car in your locked garage, order your groceries by mail, and for God's sake don't let your children walk or take the bus to school.

"You, "Pipi_K", have FUCKED UP many hundreds of times (at least) where you could or should have done something smarter, better, or with greater care than you did, but because the odds were against it, nothing horrible fucking happened to you.

The day that it does will be the same day you actually fucking get it."



What are the odds that putting a baby down to sleep will result in that baby's death?

I fucked up in 1974 by putting my daughter to sleep on her stomach. Just like millions of other parents have since time immemorial. Of course, I didn't know then what I know now. Nobody really did.

Now we do.

And I warn new parents all the time about the dangers of putting a baby to sleep on its stomach. At least they can benefit from my experience as result of what I didn't know.


So, my point is, if you even suspect something bad might happen if you do "A", you don't DO it.

The point is, you do whatever you can to make sure "A" doesn't happen. You don't make it EASIER for something bad to happen by being neglectful and uncaring, as was the case with the woman who left her car running and unlocked.

Life is full of hazards, and you can't get away from them except by hiding in a cave. It's the absolute HEIGHT of foolishness to invite trouble by making it easy on thieves and other miscreants.

poor kid was lucky it wasn't some gun toting, ready to defend my groceries dude.

but it's even worse to steal from such a car

It shows exactly what is going on in our country. Joblessness, lack of opportunities are making people desperate. :)

There is a primarily conservative board on which I in order to counter the Limbaugh/Fox News misinformation with facts, truth and history. Sometimes I am stunned, often to the point of depression, by the disdain and cruelty brainwashed rightwingers display toward those in need. But because there are enough people on that board (Yet Another Politics Board is its name) who may be the 'persuadable middle, I persist in my self-ordered 'mission'.

As a friend who'd founded another board said, I'm a first class researcher. But I wouldn't be able to accomplish much without relying on D.U.. The smartest people online regularly post here. :)

take things. The next thief might want not just groceries, but a car with laptop as well.

back in the early 70s, and that's all it took for me to learn my lesson.

I was very young and very naive/stupid. My two young children were in the car, which was running, with the driver's door still open. I had gotten out to talk to someone at an auto body place. Not more than ten feet from the car...I was right there. Luckily. Because my son climbed into the front seat and put the car in gear and I was able to jump in and stop it.

I never never never did that again. Ever. Not even with the emergency brake on.

I shudder to think of what could have happened. :scared:

Thanks for the tip.

that people (some) think the locks on cars are simply an unrequested accessory, installed at the factory to increase the price of the automobile.

Though I fully sympathize with the young man's plight and also ask: "WTF is going on in this country that people are so desperate?"

But yea, never leave your car doors unlocked - not wise.

I left my car unlocked for many years. I generally left my home unlocked as well. As a male, I guess I have less reason to worry about that. but my general strategy was that if someone else was going to steal my stuff, they probably needed it more than I.

I started locking while living with my sister and later with my wife, both of whom are habitual lockers. Ive gotten used to it. But if it weren't for that, I would probably go back to it. I don't have that much, and most of what is important to me are things that probably wouldn't be stolen. My computer is probably the main exception.

Back when I didn't lock, my van was riffled through a few times. Generally stole some change, maybe sunglasses or other minor items. It wasn't until I started locking my car that someone bothered to break a window and steal stuff, and then again later break in and take the stereo.

Though I guess I am somewhat the hypocrite, since I spent several hours today moving several tons of cement inside my fenceline so that it would be less likely to be stolen from the curb.

Leaving a car running.. that's a different story. I don't get that. But locking car doors strikes me as not all that important unless you have specific reason to be concerned

leaving the doors unlocked is ok. if i have nothing of value in the car i will go pay at the gas station with the windows open and doors unlocked and to me 3 or 4 cds is nothing of value. someone wants to steal 2 dollars in change from my ashtray they can risk a punch in the mouth for 2 dollars.

Astonishingly petty and small.

"Opinions vary" and you have yours.

The lesson is one to have been learned by the one who had stuff swiped. If you want to keep it, lock it up when out and about.

My guess would be that the person will lock the vehicle next time, knowing there are thieves running around.

economy there are many more who are just as bad off who can't afford to be stolen from either. How could the young thief have been sure that the family that he stole from wouldn't be going hungry themselves after they got their groceries stolen? Maybe those groceries were bought with the remaining food stamps for the month.

Stealing is never right. Yes hunger isn't right either but the two are not mutually exclusive.

That is actually untrue, and the reason involves food and water availability.

did you forget what your parent's taught you when they read you Robin Hood?

And that was nothing can every justify taking what is not yours.

extended circumstances --

That was before the rightwing rose to ensure punishment of the poor

and welfare for the rich --

... I shot that clerk in the face because he wouldn't give me the money! I need it for baby formula! and baby clothes... and maybe something for me... and my car payment...


Thieve are thieves.. period.. punkt..

"Of course you would always steal bread to feed your child" --

Exactly what I thought.

post.... but more sad is that your "teaching moment" type of post centers on thievery and how to prevent it. Yes, it would be very sad to have anything stolen from you, but, if I had to have anything stolen, and nothing else taken - I would feel the least troubled if it was food, stolen by a person who appeared troubled about it as they ran off.

We all know that locks thwart most thievery, but, that message is far from the point that this OP has to make.

Some reflection is probably advisable...

How can we be allowing this to perpetuate in our country?

In Dallas, blocks literally separate a microocosm where high-end shopping has flourished(Tiffany's , et al) and families are homeless on the street, begging for scraps.We are resembling the Third World we love to criticize more and more.
Bless your friend.

:cry:

I would gladly buy a homeless person some groceries....and I type this as I am watching Top Chef.....but eating veggies from my backyard garden....and my fiance is golfing at a resort


WTF?

Years ago my mom was having some financial problems. She and her husband (my stepfather) were friends with one of my real dad's brothers. My favorite uncle. He was really a good shit.

Anyway, Mom and stepfather came home one day to find a couple of bags of groceries on their back porch. They couldn't imagine who had left them there, as there was no note or anything. They asked the neighbors and one of them described the man who had dropped them off...his car, etc.

It was my uncle.

I remember one time he bought me a winter jacket because I didn't have one.

That's the kind of guy he was. Sadly, he died in the mid 1980s.


So anyway, my point is, even if someone isn't homeless, you can still do something cool, like leave a bag of groceries on someone's doorstep if you know they're having trouble with money. Or if they have kids, leave toys or clothing.

I like doing anonymous cool stuff

:)

a 'Xmas in July.' People give to homeless shelters, domestic violence shelters, etc. in November and December.

There should be an effort made to replicate this in the summer.

And it doesn't just have to be for Xtians, either. Maybe simply 'Give Blessings in July.'

People take a few weeks out of the year to do good things for others, then the rest of the year nobody gives a rat's ass.

Not even a lot of "Christians" who get all frothed up over what they perceive as the Atheists' Attack On Christmas.

Before Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Then as part of their PR, they donate some turkeys to the local food bank, as if that makes everything A-okay.

Merry Christmas my ass....

without reading your post....but hey, it made me feel good and I'm sure she was a bit happy as well

I try as well.

Sometimes we don't have enough for the extras.....and then sometimes I give a $5 bill to a homeless person. It's all relative, I guess.

My favorite story is giving a woman $10 around Christmastime...hoping she'd really use it....and she immediately walked into a 99 Cent store.....I smiled from ear to ear.

When I think that I have it bad, I think of others who have it much worse.

And, aren't Uncles cool???

give money to someone, I mean.

I do have my charities that I donate to, but there are times I'd really like the immediate feeling of having helped someone.

I think back to one time when I was waiting in the checkout line at Walgreens behind an elderly couple, who were handing over coupons, counting out change, and making sure that they had gotten every sale discount that was advertised in the flier. I should have jumped in and insisted on paying their bill. It wasn't all that much...less than $20. Don't know why I didn't...maybe I'm afraid the people will be embarrassed or insulted. I would much rather be able to do that sort of thing anonymously...

but will do so in the future.

We are not rich, but have enough for some good things...gonna think about others more now...

some are egomaniacal arrogant child molesters

One of my BILs (uncle to my kids) was exactly that.

Actually he was a Fundy "Christian" child molester.

mine were all awesome

"give" want their names on everything!!

If you have no income or a tiny income, you can qualify for foodstamps. I feel bad for the thief but still, he should have gotten food stamps or some other sort of assistance.

In my state, if you are unemployed and don't have children, you don't qualify for food stamps, period. If you're working, fine, you'll be eligible for SNAP benefits, but if you're out of work, you're out of luck.

supposed to do, starve?

and a cot (jail time.)

well enough at 14-16 to feed yourself and/or your family? I know for sure I would not have had the first idea where to turn if I'd been hungry at that age.

and what he is dealing with? When people are desperate, they will do what they have to. I don't blame him at all and I'm glad the lady was so sympathetic towards him.

Plenty of blame to go around if that's what we're doing here.

due to seeing younger siblings go hungry? perhaps his parents abused him? you would be amazed to find out how many young gang memebers are physicall, sexually, or mentally abused by their parents before they run away and become gangsters to eat.

and he's doing the only thing he knows how to do -- steal food. The only blame here is the failure of "the richest nation in the world" to provide for those in need.

before Ireland had become prosperous, he used to get a local newspaper published in his home town of Limerick. The newspaper published police reports and was full of articles of people who were arrested for stealing food, nothing more. I asked my husband why they would arrest people for being desperate and he would shrug his shoulders and replied that they were are poor nation, that there was no surplus like in this country to take care of desperate people. I guess we are getting there.

They want us poor, desperate and willing to do anything for a dollar.

begging in the streets. I'd also been to France, England, and Scotland, where I'd never run into that. Only in Ireland, where the poverty then was so great.

I hope that the recent crash left them in the same predicament.

more drastic time in Ireland --

As we have passed into fascism here and realizing how many mentioned intentions

of trying to leave over two decades now, if you come anywhere close to thinking

that way for yourself or just trying to get your kids out -- you have a little

understanding of what Ireland went thru during the alleged "potato famine" in

having their children leave the country -- often never to see them again.


This was another situation of elite greed which so devasted Ireland!

as the description of the horror was so depressing and hopeless. I did pick it up again and finish it (very good book). That guy (Kevin Baker) describes poverty in a manner that rivals Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.

but should I see the book, I'll try to browse it --

:)

And outlines the history of the main characters-- 2 of which survive the Irish holocaust to board a ship to the US, survive the ship, landing and get into the city. One is a young woman, the other is a young psychotic man. Set in the time of the Civil War, the drama unfolds as the draft riots form in NYC. There is an upper middle class journalist who narrates part of it and who is in love with a young prostitute that lives on the same lane as the female main character. It is gripping but very depressing as he is very descriptive. My son voted a big no halfway through the audio book on a long trip. Baker also wrote Wonderland, a story of a very poor Jewish family in a NY ghetto. That was very good.

in 2000. Germany even with its immense economy has beggars too. We've given them money on the city streets right in front of very expensive shops.

and people aren't poor they are impoverished -- made poor by those elites who

monopolize the commonwealth -- creating class structures -- underlings.

We had a New Deal that we failed to protect -- and here we are now!


If you truly want a democracy then you have to dump capitalism --

Capitalism is intended to move the wealth and natural resources of a nation from the

many to the few -- and it has done that very successfully everywhere it has been applied.

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.





Patriarchy -- and its underpinning =

Organized Patriarchal Religion -- and its economic invention =

Capitalism =

The Unholy Trinity

It's just all concentrated at the top.

know if this fits your community - what about a community garden where anyone in need can come to help & receive some of the food? This young boy was sorry and I would bet he would help in a garden like that.

for a hand out. He was clean looking but you could tell he needed help. I only had about $3.00 on me and gave it to him. He was happy with that and said god bless you. When the light changed I left and started crying and told my husband it was so sad people in this country are treating our follow citizens terrible. Shame on this country.

that was highly discouraged -- made an evil thing to do!!

And homeless have been swept from the streets -- we're not supposed to see them --

and actually, they've been so thoroughly disappeared that we don't see them anymore

or acknowledge them -- 3 million of them and growing!!


:(


Thank you for your post!!

and when i see a hard up person i ask them if they want a joint, if they say yes, it is theirs. i usually have little money, but for some reason i am able to have weed to give out....

People like the Koch Bros love hearing stories about desperate people, because they might be able to reduce benefits, lower pay, etc. This is what they want.

The days of Noblesse oblige are long gone, and are replaced by the vampire mentality of the rich. In fact, they're making TONS of money, and we let them.

I keep hoping that some day, someone gets pissed enough to fight back. And I don't mean carrying signs and singing songs. That's lunchtime entertainment for the Koch Bros and their ilk.

Unless the rich start getting really really scared, then we will continue to be abused, and it will be CELEBRATED.

And if they do get scared, they either double down and then a real class war begins (that is, two sides fighting, not just one) or they back off.

When that comes, it won't be pretty, and the good guys, long since dead, will not win.

But at least the rich will finally lose.

And that has to count for something.

they want to live in such a world is beyond me. Eventually they will have to fight to keep the impoverished masses from taking their stuff violently from them. They will have to lock themselves behind gates. Continually look over their shoulders to keep from being knifed in the back when coming from their fancy social events. They will have their expensive watches and rings ripped from their bodies. I remember reading how the rich in Victorian times would have their shoes stolen off their feet as their servants carried them across the filthy gutters. The poor took the shoes for their jeweled buckles to sell so they could eat. WHY would anyone want to live in that kind of world??? Becareful what you wish for, you might get it and it will be the worse nightmare you could ever imagine ... even for yourself!

I honestly think it's that simple.

as some may think.

I think that's the point where ordinary people give up thinking about elites and

capitalism because they realize it reaches a suicidal and violent point and they

know it's not about anything a healthy person desires -- they find it difficult to

believe that anyone would want it.

But patriarchy and violence are mirror images of one another --

and it's the only way the can rise.

In order for the rightwing to be where they are now it took political violence --

50 years of it --

Capitalism, itself, is based on exploitation of all nature to a suicidal point --

how often do people ask the "WHY?" of that?


Great post --

:)

And undoubtedly in other parts of the world as well.

I agree, I don't see why they'd want to live in a society like that.

but we have to show strength and unity in non-violent ways --

and there are many ways to do that --

from "lights out" at signalled times -- to taking our cars off the roads for

15-20 minutes at a time at signalled times.

Short strikes showing strength -- leading to longer strikes --

But, are we united -- and who is even trying to unite us in actions?

As far as I can see, even senior citizens aren't united in America -- except thru

AARP -- an insurance company!


:)

I cried. The news love to report on celebs but they should be our nations concious on issues like these!

America is failing in too many ways.

Advocating that everyone who already isn't that paranoid just adapt, and live behind locks and walls all the time - sorry, that's what I'd expect from the radical right. The world I'm working for would first check as to whether the car was running long enough to worry about pollution - depending on the car, the cutoff is somewhere between fifteen seconds and five minutes, longer with older cars. Pre-fuel injection cars are VERY wasteful of fuel on startup.

Other than that, OF COURSE you shouldn't have to lock up a car if you're just gone for a few minutes. A world with so many criminals that that isn't worth the risk is a dystopia, not a functional civilization.

I don't call it "paranoia". I call it good judgement.


If I had been more "paranoid" about locking up my mountain bike it wouldn't have been stolen from my hallway.


If I had been more "paranoid" about locking up my purse, it wouldn't have been stolen from beneath my desk at work.


If you've never scrimped and saved up the money to buy a bike, then I guess it's hard to imagine caring more about what you've lost than about the impact of an idling car on the world.

Same with the loss of a purse containing money, bank information, irreplaceable photos, meds, house and car keys, drivers license. At that point, I don't give a shit about global warming. I just want my stuff back and I don't want to lie awake nights worrying about whether the thieve(s) will use my keys to break into my home.

Also...I'm not sure whether one idling car in a parking lot or on the side of the road is going to make the same impact on the environment as, say, a couple of thousand of them stuck and idling on a four lane highway in LA for three hours.

Thieves are going around to different neighborhoods at night and checking for unlocked cars, then stealing everything they can. A few idiots even left guns in their cars. This is a good area too, there's usually low criminal activity. This is people leaving their cars unlocked overnight and not for a few minutes, but there are still many people who feel safe doing so. People can get carried away to the point of being paranoid, but they should at least be cautious and aware of the risks around them.

but at the same time, I would feel very angry if that had happened to me. I have 2 jobs (about 70 hours a week) to get what little I have, and I'm about a month away from getting insurance for the first time in two years. I don't make very much, and what little I have goes to feed my two kids. If I lost two bags of groceries like that there wouldn't be anything to replace them with for 2 weeks. I don't know if I would chase him down, but I would certainly not want to go give him my last bag. Course, since I lost my driver's license (stupid surcharge that I couldn't afford to pay, they suspended my "privilege" to drive), I spend something along the lines of 4 hours on the bus each day to get to and from one job. If that makes me selfish, then so be it. But I care more for my own kids than I do for some one else.

on DU, she had the right to, and should have, shot him.

and desperation.
Is it at all possible that he was driven by drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes? Or do you just know everything, because that is your belief?
The only reason people steal is due to hunger and desperation?
In Mexico, almost the entire country lives in constant hunger and what would be desperation if they aspired to all the electronic goodies and junk that americans have come to take for a right. The computer games, the cell phone, the gps, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseaum.
However, none of them steal. Very very few of them steal. Only the greedy ones steal, and it is not unusual for them to come to the usa so there are many things to steal. In Mexico there ain't much to steal.
If this kid was 14 or 16 then is there no adult, no parent, no guardian responsible for him? Or has he decided to reject their authority?
Why do we presume that the country, the capitalists, the government is responsible for every aspect of every life?
Are there no parents? Is no one responsible for their own actions?
Is is possible that this kid could work somewhere? Or is that categorically ruled out?
In conclusion, I call bs on your entire story, and the response of about 90 percent of those responding.
dc
PS Do not leave the car running, and unattended.

as I wondered how anyone could lip read from some distance as someone was running away.

Was it really, "I'm sorry"?

Or was it, "Fuck you!"?


I dunno, quite honestly.

I don't know if I'd call bullshit on the story, but there are lots of questions...

always think the worst of humanity!

if that's sarcasm or what...


So I'll choose not to think the worst of your intent, and assume it wasn't meant to be sarcastic.


How's that?

What I am saying to you is that it is always easier to judge the poor

and powerless --

and always harder to judge the powerful among us --

See, now...if you knew me better, you would know that I have a general contempt for the rich and powerful.

I used to be somewhat poor myself, so I know what it's like.


Somewhere else in this thread I related how at one time I left empty boxes on my pantry shelves to make it look like we had food.

I and my kids lived on Welfare for a while... $ 234.00 a month. My rent was $115.00. The remainder went for luxuries like heat and lights and clothing and maybe an occasional treat for the kids.


So please...I don't need anyone telling me...or suggesting...that I "judge the poor" and give a free ride to the rich and powerful. I know what it's like to be poor. It sucked BIG TIME.

for this individual -- not less.

All I'm saying is that people here are making it a solid, undeniable FACT that someone stole X because of Y.

I guess you missed my post somewhere below where I related a story of the man I knew who stole things he didn't even need.

Food...he was NOT starving.

Emery boards...WTF? He had never filed his nails in his life.

Disposable razors. Uh...he had a beard and mustache.

and more.


Sometimes people steal cars just for a joyride. For the thrill of stealing something and riding around in it for a while.

People often steal stuff they don't really need.

someone in a simple story -- is a criminal --

And because you're so hooked on the idea that people steal for no reason --

We don't know if you were actually ever poor, or starving -- you may be

someone who writes things like that to try to prove their point --

And because you write NOTHING of the corruption of corporations nor their

exploitation of humanity in THIS thread --

But whatever your point of view, it has brought no enlightenment to the thread

just a mean-spiritedness.

Bye --

A person who steals from someone else IS a criminal.

I don't care if it's a car or a purse or a bag of groceries or even a fifteen dollar watch.

If you go into the grocery store and buy grapes and eat half of them while shopping, then don't say anything to the clerk, you're a thief.

If it's not yours and you take it, you're a thief. Real simple.


But that's not the point here. The real point is that people here are so invested in believing that a person who stole a bag of groceries is homeless, starving, and in God knows what other shitty condition that could possibly afflict humankind.

Without even knowing the kid or WHY he stole.


The point here is that there COULD be other possibilities, and I've said it downthread a bit. Is it possible he's hungry? Yes. Is it a written in stone FACT?

No.

People are acting like it IS a fact. It's not.

bye --

is merely a presumption IN THE COURT. This ain't no court. It's a public forum.
What is a presumption? A fiction. What is a fiction? A thing not true.
The facts say he was guilty. You were given the facts stating that he did the act. The stealing. The taking without paying or permission.
You can't change the facts. You can't go back to the scene and change things around. You must accept the facts as they are given to you and deal with that.
dc

for no compassion --

Perhaps you'd like a hanging?

bye --

is the part of the system that allows people to be released on bail.

And, even if a court found him 'not guilty', he would still not be 'innocent' - because he took the stuff.

the story saw and/or felt the impact of what had happened --

and were moved to concern and compassion.

You want to declare someone "guilty" -- but of what? Of being hungry?


You fail to acknowledge what is going on in the nation --

and you're carrying the big stick of "law and order" over two bags of groceries?

:eyes:

I'd love to see what you write regularly about the true criminals in our society --

our corrupt government officials and corrupt capitalists and elites who are have

been stealing from this nation and its citizens for so very long!

You've probably been calling for them and their families to be burned at the stake!?


I'm sure you want to nationalize the oil industry --

and re-regulate capitalism --

Put war profiteers in jail --

and stop anyone exploiting labor --

Plenty of people are hungry in this country who don't run around stealing from others.

I hope you're not suggesting that just about any criminal act is justifiable according to the criminal's circumstances...


Also...this all leads right back to the basic argument, which is that nobody here knows for a FACT that the kid robbed the groceries because he was hungry.

For all any of us knows, he could have been having the munchies from smoking weed and didn't want to pay for them. Or he could have been an alcoholic hoping to find some mouthwash or vanilla extract or something else with alcohol in it.

There are other possibilities just as likely as the "poor starving child" one.

and why you have become so obsessed about two bags of groceries to the point where

you have actually suggested that the neighbor made up the story to cover her guilt

at leaving her car unlocked -- !!

And that not being enough as yet, you're trying to suggest the kid may have been a

drug addict or an alcoholic! --

You just can't resist the low road can you?



Just in case you don't recall what you wrote ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1188775&mesg_id=1191478

What I said was that perhaps her mind wants her to believe things she may not have seen in order to make her feel somewhat better about having been robbed.

You know?

Like when parents lose a child in a senseless war, and they make themselves feel better by believing that the kid died "to keep America safe". Or some other worthy reason.

So perhaps the neighbor WANTED to believe that the kid mouthed the words, "I'm sorry" with a look of sorrow on his face as he ran away (who knows how far away he was when all this happened, BTW).

It would be easier to accept the theft if she believed it was some poor starving child who NEEDED the groceries rather than someone who might just enjoy stealing shit from open cars, no matter what it is.

And maybe in the excitement of the moment, a 22 year old sort of looked like a pathetic 14 or 15 year old kid.

People see and hear things through their own internal filters.

On edit...it suddenly occurred to me that maybe that whole story was just an attempt by the OP's neighbor to make herself feel less stupid for leaving the car running.

People often feel less anger after they've been robbed if they make themselves believe that perhaps the thief needed it more than they did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1188775&mesg_id=1191478


and, of course, in another post you've suggested that the kid may be a drug addict or

alcoholic -- !!

:eyes:

Because if you've never had stuff stolen from you, you can't understand that it's not just about the "stuff", it's also a violation of yourself, no matter what was stolen.


and if you've never had much, and then at some point you do, you want to keep it.


Also...and I'm not sure of what you know about the subject, but there are people who keep stuff because of severe anxiety disorders. For them their stuff symbolizes security.

so I think it would be nice for people to learn why stuff can mean so much to some of us instead of being judgmental about it.

It is wrong to violate other people's rights by taking their property. Not such a tough concept.

takes your stuff and runs away with it - he is in fact guilty. He is in fact a thief. You might, out of the goodness of your heart, decide not to press charges, but he remains a thief nonetheless.

Letting someone take your stuff will not correct all the other things you mentioned. All those other things will still be there, and YOUR stuff will still be gone.

than two illegal and immoral wars of aggression pushed for 10 years?

Or worthy, perhaps, of even more attention than 50 million Americans living on food stamps?

Even courts/judges/jurors find extenuating circumstances -- and we used to

be proud of showing mercy -- !!

:eyes:

another. *I* said as soon as a bag of groceries (or whatever) is taken, whoever took them is a thief. There is no way to sugar coat, or extenuate, or justify, or anything - the person is a thief. He can be forgiven, or not prosecuted, or nor punished - but he is a thief. He took something that wasn't his to take, he took it without permission - he is an effing thief.

There is criminality in the examples you've used. There should be punishments. There probably won't be. There have been no indictments. And yet, there have been no cries here about "presumed innocence until 'proven' guilty" for them. Now, why do you suppose that is?

The simple answer is that 'grocery thief' tugs at the heartstrings, the other doesn't.

All the congresspeople who regularly vote for continued funding for the acts you mention - have you voted for their reelection? If the answer is yes, then you are complicit. Ponder that.

the person who stole quickly learns that he can get what he wants by stealing.

The first time might be very difficult.

The second time...less difficult.

After that, it becomes a habit. Done without a moment's regret.

lots of people here pronounce judgement on others all the time.


No presumption of innocence for Republicans and accused rapists and Teabaggers (ALL of whom get called "racist", BTW).

Police who get accused of brutality aren't even given the benefit of the doubt most of the time here. If some guy says he was "attacked for no reason", well then, by God, that's exactly how it happened.


Either EVERYBODY is "presumed innocent" of whatever bad thing we want to think of them, or nobody is.

You can't pick and choose based on personal bias.

And T-baggers?

And, might it possibly be that they are called "racist" when there is evidence for that?

You're also offended that police officers shown brutalizing citizens are judged to be wrong?

And you're comparing two bags of groceries with all of that?

You're thinking and values are way out of balance to say the least --

:eyes:





And yet...
Posted by pipi_k
lots of people here pronounce judgement on others all the time.


No presumption of innocence for Republicans and accused rapists and Teabaggers (ALL of whom get called "racist", BTW).

Police who get accused of brutality aren't even given the benefit of the doubt most of the time here. If some guy says he was "attacked for no reason", well then, by God, that's exactly how it happened.


Either EVERYBODY is "presumed innocent" of whatever bad thing we want to think of them, or nobody is.

You can't pick and choose based on personal bias.

It's not right to pronounce an entire group of people as something based on what some of them do or say.


Not all cops are brutes.

Not all Republicans are stupid pigs who care only about themselves.

Not all teabaggers are "racist"

That is what I'm saying.


People here decide that EVERYONE in a particular hated group is the same way. They're ALL presumed guilty of the same thing.

Although the ironic part is that some of the same behavior on the "Liberal" side is fine. What behavior people are willing to tolerate seems to depend largely on which side of the political spectrum the behavior happened.

That is what offends me. Hypocrisy.

and this one isn't much better -- !!

So now it's "hypocrisy" at the center of this OP?

The neighbor's impression of what happened was sympathy and compassion for someone

she felt showed sorrow --


And with all that we have recited to you and all that you in turn recite to us about

the unfairness of DU'ers in judging others ---

Let's look at what YOU offered . . .

A suggestion that this neighbor is lying about what happened because she felt guilty

about leaving her car unlocked -- :eyes:

And new suggestions that the kid may be a drug addict or alcoholic -- :eyes:

And what "facts" do you have to support any of that?



Your original post, in case you've forgotten it --

And yet...
lots of people here pronounce judgement on others all the time.


No presumption of innocence for Republicans and accused rapists and Teabaggers (ALL of whom get called "racist", BTW).

Police who get accused of brutality aren't even given the benefit of the doubt most of the time here. If some guy says he was "attacked for no reason", well then, by God, that's exactly how it happened.


Either EVERYBODY is "presumed innocent" of whatever bad thing we want to think of them, or nobody is.

You can't pick and choose based on personal bias.


And all of that as opposed to a kid and two bags of groceries!!


hmmm.....

... she knows this. It is a fact.

That kid is a fucking thief. Period.

He might be other things but he can tack on criminal. Got no patience for folks that take things that aren't there.

Like any criminal he picked a target that he thought he could take advantage of with the least chance of getting caught.

Our courts, Judges certainly have understood extenuating circumstances in days

past -- days when we were proud of showing mercy --

a way back before we became meanspirited --

But -- again -- I'd love to see what you write in this length and width about corporations

which steal from Americans every day without accountability!

What you might have to say about Big Pharma, for instance, which rips off American patients

every day on drug prices -- every last one of the drug companies having defrauded Medicare.

What did you have to say about the financial coup and what should happen to those who pulled

that off? Perhaps burning at the stake?

Law and order is nice -- but trying to apply it to this story is misplaced vigilance --

especially when it can rarely be found when really serious stuff is going down --

Look you can talk about other issues all you like.. and I'm sure you will.

"Law and order is nice -- but..."

So its ok to steal from a 7-11 to feed your baby? Of course not..

Kid is a fucking criminal who robs women.

Lastly, if your child came home, suspended for stealing lunch money, but he explained that all the other kids are doing it so its ok. Would you accept that?

All these entities are stealing so its ok for a teenager to do it?

It is just as wrong to steal 5 bucks from Bill Gates wallet as it is from a single mom of 5. A thief is a thief...

and corrupt politicians --

Bill Gates is stealing from America every day in every way -- when you figure

that our, we might get somewhere in this conversation!

Right now you are stuck at the level where robbery of women is ok because someone somewhere did something you consider illegal/immoral.

Not sure where to go from there.

:shrug:

Pharmacy companied rip off patients, check
Madoff ripped off thousands of people, check
This young man ripped off groceries, check
All that means is they are all thieves

worst behavior. Ever hear of drugs and alcohol, and cigarettes. Ever been out there on the streets, under the overpasses, down by the railroad tracks, with those people down there? I have. Many times. They rarely show too much good. At least not when the drugs, alcohol and cigarettes are around.
dc

and you're hung up on "alcohol, drugs and cigarettes"?

People turn to drugs and alcohol when life doesn't make sense for them --

and when corporations are in control of our lives it rarely does make sense.

Cigarettes? What are you doing ... keeping track of everyone else's sins?


Did you happen to notice that corporations/tobacco companies pushed cigarette

smoking for 50 or more years -- while denying that they caused cancer?

Do you recall anyone telling you that they even used fake doctors to sell

cigarettes to Americans for profit?

Or that they pushed cigarattes to the underaged, especially by using ads

featuring adults who actually looked like teenagers or younger -- ?

Americans had to pick up the burden of health care for those suffering cancers

because of tobacco. Drug companies have done all they could to avoid accountability.



And we should treat drug addiction as we treat any other health issue -- with

medical care.



"Beware of those with a strong urge to punish" --

Pure bs and insanity.
People use drugs because the major corporations make them do it?
What wacko planet did you drop in from.
Why should the government and the corporations be accountable if you don't want anybody to be accountable for their own personal actions? Ergo ...
dc

they said that people use drugs when life doesnt make sense to them.

and yes corporations have MARKETING TEAMS which are there to convince people to buy shit they don't need. corporations would not invest money in marketing teams if there were no return for their investment.

alcohol and tobacco have lots of ads for them to make them look "sexy" "cool" and what not. individuals share repsonsibility with the marketing teams. no as for illegal drugs there is no marketing effort, but by making them illegal there is the thrill of the forbidden fruit. compare the low cannabis use rate in the netherlands where it is sold in stores with the high rate in places like spain, the uk, france or the usa where it is illegal for recreational use and sold on the black market.

Bye --

but that you're not saying anything worth hearing --

i spend many a night in my youth smoking weed, and hanging out with people where were drinking beer, smoking weed and cigs, often times we were under an underpass if it was raining and would run into some of the other folks down there. I have given homeless people weed to smoke, beer to drink and food to eat and have never, not once, been robbed by them. perhaps it was because i didnt look like i had much money or because i was a young man but chicago is supposed to be a very 'mean' city and i have never had a problem there. a female cousin of mine was robbed on the el late at night by someone with a knife but that is the worst event in my entire entourage.

What perversion is it that shows you good in stealing?
dc

but i can EXCUSE stealing food if one is hungry while also understanding that it is not right for the victim to have less food either. i had a friend who lived under a bridge for 6 months and you said you saw little good from people under bridges so i had to chime in about that.

I said the person who thought she saw something might not have seen correctly.

Especially as someone is running away.


And yeah, I guess if you want to get into personal insults, it probably DOES "explain a lot". I'm partly deaf in one ear. Very often I can't hear people, and have to watch their mouths as they speak. The person has to be within a few feet of me so I can be sure I understand correctly. And yes, even then I don't get it.


So unless someone is TRAINED in lip reading, that person can't be trusted to make a judgement on what someone else may or may not have said while running away and about to turn a corner 20 or more feet away.

im glad somebody finally said something along those lines. Instantly, everyone here believes the OP's assumption that this person stole out of desperation and hunger, somehow related to our present society and shit economy. Is it a possibility? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so. Its just as possible that he has a drug or alcohol problem or a behavioral problem or maybe a bad or abusive home situation (if he was that young, child services should be alerted).

Believe it or not, there are truly disingenuous people out there who are stealing....to steal. Plain and simple. Don't get me wrong, i know damn well first hand this country is in the toilet right now, but im a little disturbed that everyone here immediately just knee jerks to believe the OP witnessed some sort scene ripped out of some Oliver Twist poverty-scape.

I don't doubt this particular person is desperate. You have to be desperate to steal. But to assume its somehow instantly related to a break down of our society and a massive regression back to Dickensian times is hyperbole to the max. There are plenty of people who are as bad, if not worse off than this person (if he really was stealing to feed himself with no other apparent alternative)and who would walk by the OP's car and never break a step. And if they did, it would probably be only to tell the numbskull he or she left the door unlocked and the car running!

how ironic would it be if that kid got caught stealing from someone else and it turned out he's from a family that was able to buy groceries. I wonder how many here would feel like morons for assuming it was a sign of the imminent breakdown of society from poverty. I wonder if we'd even hear about "the rest of the story".


Is it probable? I don't know.


But I do know that anything is possible...


On edit...it suddenly occurred to me that maybe that whole story was just an attempt by the OP's neighbor to make herself feel less stupid for leaving the car running.

People often feel less anger after they've been robbed if they make themselves believe that perhaps the thief needed it more than they did.

:shrug:

On edit...it suddenly occurred to me that maybe that whole story was just an attempt by the OP's neighbor to make herself feel less stupid for leaving the car running.

People often feel less anger after they've been robbed if they make themselves believe that perhaps the thief needed it more than they did.

:shrug:



:nuke:

I'm saying that her mind may have caused her to "see" things that did not actually exist.

Like a "starving 15 year old kid" who could very well have been a young looking 23 year old adult.

Like "seeing" someone mouth the words "I'm sorry" while that person runs away. Unless she's a professional lip reader, I would seriously question that observation.


Years ago I actually had someone accuse me of giving him the middle finger when I hadn't done any such thing.

One time a friend stayed at my house and we had been around the corner and down the street hanging out with some kids at a local schoolyard. As we rounded the corner to go back to my house, a car came up the street and stopped at the stop sign, then went on its way on the main thoroughfare. We hadn't even been IN anyone's car that night. But my mother, who was on the porch at the time insisted that she SAW us get out of that car and I got grounded. Based on what she thought she saw.


People see shit all the time that they want to see.

On edit...it suddenly occurred to me that maybe that whole story was just an attempt by the OP's neighbor to make herself feel less stupid for leaving the car running.

People often feel less anger after they've been robbed if they make themselves believe that perhaps the thief needed it more than they did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1188775&mesg_id=1191478


So people keep accusing you of things you didn't do, eh?

Years ago I actually had someone accuse me of giving him the middle finger when I hadn't done any such thing.

People see and hear things through their own internal filters.

People see shit all the time that they want to see.



Sometimes you sound like you're in a confessional -- !!

Jesus tapdancing Christ. I honestly do not understand the mentality of people like you, who instantly believe the worst of anyone who does anything remotely wrong.

How the fuck can you be even a little bit judgmental on the 'thief' (I use that word as loosely as possible in this case) described here? The guy left behind several hundred dollars' worth of electronics- items he could easily have sold for a higher value than the food he did steal- and he didn't do that. He left those items behind.

Really, you and the other one you agreed with sound like Inspector Javert, and for the exact same fucking reasons- and yes, I've read the original translation from the French all the way through four or five times, so I'm in a position to confidently make that comparison. It takes a seriously prejudicial mind to judge in this case, given that he left behind the real valuables in the car.

He was obviously hungry, and it's a safe bet he stole so much food because there were other equally hungry mouths in the house. Oh, and there's a whole laundry list of reasons he and his might have been denied food aid, not one of which affects the actual hunger he and his were probably feeling!

I've known real thieves in my life, I've known people who were desperate for this or that amount of money who have been thieves, but never, not once, ever, have I considered someone so desperately hungry that they would steal food and leave behind something easily available of higher value than the food to be a 'thief'.

I consider those people hungry. And I completely forgive them.

Seriously- what the hell is wrong with you?

I take great offense to the way you responded to me and your explicit, immature language. However, I will take the higher road and not resort to responding in such a manner other than to state my case clearly and not sling personal spews of vitriol.

Nothing, and i repeat, Nothing i have said has been discounted by the fact that none of the expensive things were stolen. And what exactly is your definition of hungry? I could be hungry and walk by someone's car and see food and snatch it. My hunger problem satiated in a flash.
And once again, i do not discount that the person could still have personal, private problems and issues (issues, abuses at home) Did that ever occur to you i wonder? That this person is not being properly fed or cared for because his parents are bums (And before u flame away, i mean that they blow their money on drugs or booze or something, not because they can't afford to feed their child!)
No its because of the economy and our society eroding at the seams. Never! Never could this incident have occurred at any juncture in the history of our nation except in the throes of economic trouble. And never could an adolescent steal some food from some person's unlocked car without the reason being related to some greater hyperbolic socio-economic tidal wave of moral collapse:sarcasm:

Give me a break.

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but how dare YOU lecture me about poverty. Lofty perches and such nonsense. You know absolutely nothing about my life and its only your flippant attitude that allows you to think you can. I made no personal presumptions about you, but you make plenty about me. Nonetheless, once again, I will be the civil person here and refuse to respond back in such a profane manner as you prefer to do.


Good Day.

:thumbsup:

Plenty about the guy described in the OP, though, and that's what this conversation is really about.

Here's what you sound like:

"Hey, the guy probably had the munchies because he was high on drugs or his parents were drunks or methheads and didn't bother taking care of him. It doesn't matter that he left a few hundred dollars' worth of electronics behind. He's just a petty thief, and if that was (sic) legal, I'd be able to just take someone else's sammich for lunch! You tell me I don't know what it's like to be hungry, like nobody else has missed a meal here and there, I've been hungry before too, pal. You're making a lot of assumptions and that pisses me off!"

Ah, irony.

You dismissed the gravity of the overall situation completely, too. That's the part that angers and frightens me. I simply cannot grasp that some people do not understand how truly 'food insecure' many people are in this country and I really can't wrap my mind around how you can just dismiss it. This is a widespread problem with serious social consequences that should be obvious to all, and here you are, whistling past the graveyard.

I personally know one guy that has gone for days at a time without eating and was himself on the verge of doing something similar to what was described in the OP. And you know what? Instead of the lecture and dismissal you're giving everyone here on this topic, instead of telling him he should fend for himself better, instead of berating his family for hot helping him (or worse, implying they're drunks or drug addicts), instead of an interrogation, instead of dismissing him by saying "I've been hungry before" and implying he's just a petty thief,a common criminal, for stealing a loaf of bread... I just give him food.

I would rather err on the side of forgiveness for things like severe hunger and thirst, and judge the guy in the OP very leniently if I were to judge at all because I've felt them before. From the responses you've gotten from others here, most of the rest of us would, too. It is you who are turning your back, and my own profanity and flippance (or lack thereof) does not change that fact.

And yes, it does say one whole hell of a lot about you.

assuming that he is indeed a genuinely in need person who is a victim of a greater socio-economic break down of American society where he can just as well be simply a troubled person stealing food. What is your proof positive at that? Were you there in person to witness what went down? NO, you were not. And neither was I. I merely pointed out, in my personal opinion, what I believed was likely or not. And hence we come back to the root of my very simple complaint that everyone here automatically believes the OPs second hand assumptions as being evidence of a breakdown of society. And again, I repeatedly never contradicted that our nation and its people are in dire trouble, but rather preferred not to jump to the most hyperbolic of conclusions.

But no, let's just broad brush and insult and personally attack the first singular person you set your eyes on with whom you disagree. And yes, It is such actions that say a whole heck of a lot about you.

Or is it 50 million?

im glad somebody finally said something along those lines. Instantly, everyone here believes the OP's assumption that this person stole out of desperation and hunger, somehow related to our present society and shit economy. Is it a possibility? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so. Its just as possible that he has a drug or alcohol problem or a behavioral problem or maybe a bad or abusive home situation (if he was that young, child services should be alerted).


Someone having a "drug or alcohol problem, behavioral problem, or abusive home situation"

wouldn't be cause for compassion, either?

And what exactly do you think our "child service" and safety nets are providing these days?

And what did they provide in the past as a way to abuse children -- especially sexually?


Look at the charts that have been provided here at DU over the last days -- and week --

USA is at the BOTTOM of all the lists -- in every way.