Alameda police, firefighters watch as man drowns

Source: abc7news.com - KGO Bay Area News

Alameda police and firefighters stood by and watched as a man drowned off Crown Beach in Alameda on Monday. Authorities are now trying to explain why they had no choice but to stand on the shoreline.

Alameda police received a call shortly before noon on Monday from a woman saying her son wanted to kill himself. Raymond Zack, 53, then walked out into the water off Crown Beach.

"I thought it was kind of weird that they weren't going out to bring the guy in, you know, he was out there, his head was above water, he was looking at everybody, there was plenty of time for them to react," witness Perry Smith said.

For more than an hour, Zack stood up to his neck in the frigid surf off of Crown Beach in Alameda.

Read more: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Feast_bay&id=8161285

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The man was a 150 yards out; it was too shallow for a Coast Guard boat and its helicopter was on another call. It arrived too late.

"It's horrible," Barlow said. "How can we let that happen? How can our emergency personnel allow that to happen? I don't get it, I don't understand it."

The Alameda Fire Department says budget constraints are preventing it from recertifying its firefighters in land-based water rescues. Without it, the city would be open to liability. (my emphasis -- meegbear)

" Well, if I was off duty I would know what I would do, but I think you're asking me my on-duty response and I would have to stay within our policies and procedures because that's what's required by our department to do," Alameda Fire Div. Chief Ricci Zombeck said when asked by ABC7 if he would enter the water to save a drowning child.

Alameda firefighters could not even go into the water to get the body, so they waited until a woman in her 20s volunteered to bring the body back to the beach.

but my conscience would be clear. I don't know how these guys will be able to deal with knowing they let the guy die when they could have readily helped.

I'm surprised that not one of them broke ranks. I have a feeling a few of them will long wish that they had.

I heartily agree. There are times when conscience and common sense should come into an equation. This is one of those times.

the wrong people. Your actions to break ranks would have been heroic. Their inaction? Hideous. It looks like their duty as a human being would have overruled their official duty to let people drown, if they had a conscience to begin with.

normal people stop and do stuff they wouldn't do. A higher moral imperative was at hand here and they didn't take it. Now they have to live with it forever. sad.

We are reverting to pure animals whose only instinct is for survival.
Another thought. What kind of horses ass even thinks to ask the question"are we allowed to save that guy"?

and should be fired immediately.

Even if you lost your job over this, how could you live with yourself if you let someone die that you could have helped?

Cowards, the lot of them. I hope the man's family sues Alameda.

Cowards.
< If we walk into the water to help that guy, maybe just talk to him, we might get a demerit, or a reprimand, or a stain on our employee record, or maybe, recieve an unpleasant memo. The horror! >

Had just one of them broke ranks to save the guy, that person would be a hero now. Instead, they are all cowards, hideous cowards.

one, at least, is every bit as progressive as I am. They must be hanging their heads in shame today. :(

These assholes are using public safety as a negotiating ploy.

They should be fired immediately for malfeasance in office.

created this policy. Firefighters are EMPLOYEES.

Firefighters want to KEEP their jobs. In this economic climate, that's certainly understandable. And I can also guarantee you that any one of them who broke ranks and disobeyed policy to save the guy would be fired posthaste. And probably sued by the guy, too.

Really?
To watch a man slowly die in front of you, not helping when you very well could save him.....You'd do that to save your job, would be UNDERSTANDABLE?

Fucking Really!?


Watching this guy die of hypothermia for an hour while doing absolutely nothing , certainly killed him.
Thats UNDERSTANDABLE?


That must be one fucking GREAT job!
A job to kill for.

Many of which are fucked up beyond belief for people that have never dealt with them. Seriously, some are beyond cruel and well into outright insane territory. They're mostly intended to limit liability. The insurance companies set the rules, and the insurance companies are dicks.

I'm not arguing they made the right choice. I wouldn't have made the same choice they did. I'm just pointing out that they had more to fear than losing their jobs.

.....is that I find myself, NOT thinking about job security, or law suits, but of our souls well being. (Which is odd, because I'm not churchy.)I'm worried about the well-being of the souls of those who watched that man die slowly. Not their jobs, their future financial security: Their souls.

Is it all about job security and avoiding litigation in these days? That seems pretty cheap price for the souls of those who watched without moving.
Apparently souls are going very cheap in Alameda.


I thank God, or what-the-fuck-ever, that my job is shitty, so I wouldnt sell my soul for it.Sometimes , I wonder if its worth getting up in the morning for ., And that my poverty pretty much insures that I dont need to be afraid of someone taking my great wealth (about $130 on this day), Certainly not worth suing for, also , not worth selling my soul for.

And YOU should fucking pray for your life, that when you, or someone you love needs someone to walk into the water and talk you down , That a poor creep like me, with a shitty job, or NO job, is nearby.

I would have walked into the ocean for Raymond Zack. No hesitation.

What the fuck is the matter with everyone else!?

There are so few of those around any more. It's sad to see the state of humanity in this day and age. It's horrible, really.

I would have done it too, lawsuits or firing be damned.

I wouldn't even let an animal drown if I could help it.

to save anyone from death, even when it occurs right in front of them:



In NC, at least, you may be gunned down in the police station and the police are under no obligation to act to prevent your death. A little different from suicide you say? Not that I see, since suicide is usually a criminal act (though seldom prosecuted beyond commitment to a mental hospital.

http://nc.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/...

"so they waited until a woman in her 20s volunteered to bring the body back to the beach."

to get their uniforms wet....:sarcasm:, I mean, really, this is one pathetic First Responder group.

BLAME THE TAX CUTS.

:mad:

Sometimes the exactly RIGHT thing to do is to tell your boss to go fuck himself, and his fucking regulations... and walk into the water and do what YOU KNOW IS RIGHT.

say the "rescuers" can't do a water rescue without the approved safety equipment.

Nice excuse.

PH

This was someones life!

and rescued the guy in their off-duty capacity as a decent human being, but they obviously didn't have that quality.

All they had to say was "Uh, I suddenly feel really sick, I have to clock out now."

and then plunge into the surf.

Fuck yes! This is life or death, here!

The cheap idiots that keeps the first responders untrained, uncertified, and/or missing vital pieces of equipment have a good chunk of it



I can understand but not agree with the FD's position, though. The situation might well be something nobody is properly trained and/or equipped for, and trying to rescue the guy might well have resulted in two dead instead of one. Water rescue is dangerous in that the person drowning is almost always in a panic and can injure or drown the rescuer in a desperate attempt to stay above water.

*sigh*


It's the chief's job to protect the men under his command, too. He doesn't want to have to present a folded flag to a grieving widow or orphaned child anymore than you do.

Fucking weak.
No ONE responded .

An actual human being might have walked into the water and talked to Raymond Zack.
But no one did.
No one. For an hour he stood in the cold Pacific, and no one took a fucking step to talk to him.
For a fucking hour. It takes a while to die of hypothermia. About an hour. No one talked to Raymond Zack. They watched.
And when Raymond Zack is clearly dead, a little girl of 20 years is the only one who has balls enough to wade out and bring his body back.,.... while all these do=nut fattened "first-responders" sat on their lardy asses, watching, too frightened to get a demerit, or a fucking memo in their company inbox.
FUCK THEM!

FUCK them!

FUCK them!

Amazing how that defense always works.

Fucking pathetic.

Some people should be ashamed of themselves.