Debt Collection Agencies Gone Wild

http://www.newdeal20.org/2011/06/01/debt-collection-agencies-gone-wild-46617/

This week’s credit check: The debt collection industry made $11.7 billion in revenue last year. Complaints about collectors account for 27% of those lodged with the FTC.

As Elizabeth Warren says, “Nothing will ever replace the role of personal responsibility.” Just as the FDA doesn’t prevent overdoses, the point of consumer protection regulations isn’t to come to the rescue of people who simply don’t want to pay back the money they owe. But debt collection agencies have started using outrageous tactics to get payments on debt. These companies buy up bad debt from lenders — credit card companies, phone companies, health care providers, you name it — for cheap and then hunt down the money owed in order to turn a profit. And in doing so, some act more like organized crime than private businesses.

They harass consumers with threats and obscenities. Complaints about debt collectors filed with the Federal Trade Commission, the agency tasked with regulating these operations, rose by about 17% in 2010, which is nearly three times the number of complaints filed in 2002. They account for 27% of all those lodged with the FTC. And of the 54,147 consumers complaining to state level authorities in South Carolina, 4,182 said debt collectors had threatened violence. In 2005, 8,000 consumers told the FTC that debt collectors had used obscene or profane language, according to “Up To Our Eyeballs.” But it’s not always just about outright harassment. It’s also a mind game. A former debt collector has anonymously blogged about some of the tactics he used, describing how he would “sound educated enough to perform some sort of legal action” by dropping four important phrases: office, file, client, and flat refusal to pay. This careful use of language was often enough to scare consumers into coughing up some money.

Debt collectors put people in jail. The Minneapolis StarTribune reported that “the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009.” The Wall Street Journal found similar numbers:

More at the link --

I didn't really like most of the debt collectors who were mostly lawyers.

Every once in a while the collector would be outmatched by a more articulate and well prepared debtor. It was fun to watch.

Debt collectors cannot jail people. They *can* seek redress through the court system when debtors refuse to pay, and when the debtors who dodge the collectors then try to dodge court, those debtors can be jailed for failure to appear. But it is disingenuous to imply that debt collectors are jailing people, or that debtors are being locked up for failing to pay.

Contempt of court is a different matter.

... it's debt prison (time).

Failure to pay a debt isn't a crime.

Is there someone out there actually pushing to make it a crime?

Even if there were... you can't argue that debtors prisons exist by claiming that they may someday exist.

You go to prison because a debt collector lied his/her ass off to the judge who then put you in prison. The reason? You didn't show up in court to account for your debt.

Sounds like the same outcome to me. I don't care much how the horse crosses the finish line. Potato, potahhhhto.

Show up in court. Simple.

If they don't actually serve you, then sue their butts and have them found in contempt. If you can't afford to sue them, call one of the many consumer groups that rightfully hates the bottom-feeders of the debt collection world. They would love to have another easy win.

If you legitimately owe the debt and can afforf to pay it... do so.
If you legitimately owe the debt and can't afford to pay it... say so. You won't go to prison.
If you don't legitimately owe the debt. Make the scam as painful on the scammers as possible.

... but there are lots of folks out there who don't have our knowledge or acumen. And for those people the end result, whether you call it debt prison or not, is the same. They owe a debt and they end up in jail.

And for folks on the edge, that weekend in the pokey could be the straw that breaks the camels back, gets them fired, and loses them their house. I just found out that a guy I know, his pregnant wife, and their young child was just kicked out on the street because the guy who owned the property used their ignornance of the law to screw them over by saying he would exchange landscaping and construction work on the property in exchange for rent. They worked improving his property and then he kicked them out.

They were just moved by the sherif. It doesn't matter if they were right. It doesn't matter if the owner broke the law. They may not be able to prove it (i.e. was it written down, notorized, etc.).

The EFFECT is the same no matter what you call it. Screwed is screwed. Jail time is jail time. Anyone on the recieving end of that may not care so much why it happened as much as getting it to stop. In a just society this wouldn't happen.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

A rose by any other name....

It's very easy for a debt collector to manipulate the courts. They can willfully serve an old address or otherwise tell the court that they served the papers, when the debtor never received personal service.

Debtor has no idea he has a court hearing. Of course, because he never actually received the notice, he fails to appear.

Court finds him in contempt and the arrest warrants come out. Bail is set for the amount of the alleged debt and handed over to the creditor. Technically it might not be a debtor's prison, but if it walks like one and talks like one...

Debt collectors often don't serve the debtor and just falsify an affidavit of service or knowingly serve the papers incorrectly. Debt collectors tend to do poorly in court when they have to prove the validity of a debt so they just make good and sure the debtor doesn't know about it till their arrested on a bench warrant.

This is disgusting behavior.

You only need a tiny proportion of the marks to pay up to make a killing.

Of course... then you have to live with yourself.

I'm one of those people (and there are many of us these days) receiving phone calls on my home land line for an individual that has a similar name to mine, but not someone who I know. I don't know the person, don't know how to contact the person, am not connected to this situation in any way, shape, form or fashion. I'm just getting phone calls.

In the last 30 days, I've received over 20 phone calls asking for this person. Each phone call comes from a different number, and a different company name is given. Each time I explain that I do not know this person, and each time the rude collection agent says that they will update their records accordingly. But I'm betting that they don't give a rat's ass whether someone else calls me the next time or not.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to get this stopped. I was, at one time, demanding that the person on the line give me the company name, address, etc., and I was sending written notification that I was not connected. But most of the time, these jerks hang up when this information is requested. And I've found that sending a letter really accomplishes nothing, because they simply use a different company name on subsequent phone calls.

This is a racket! It's simply some smart-asses using google to try to find relatives, etc. And they are, obviously, NOT even very good at using google. This industry needs to reined in.

You'll never get the information you want (company name, address, etc) by telling them they have the wrong person and then demanding it.

Next time try pretending that they do have the right person, then nicely ask where you can send your payment.

I'll bet you get the info pretty darned quick then...

:7

The phone calls are recorded, of course, and if they get me on record saying that (even pretending that) I am that person, then I think I'm screwed for life.

I do think that I will start asking for the identifying information before I agree to say anything, including to tell them that they have a wrong number. I will not be admitting nor denying that I am the person they are trying to reach, only refusing to answer that question until I get the company name, address, etc.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7921993

Eventually we handed off the phone to a producer of a late night talk show, they were going to try bringing in Harry Shearer and everything but it was decided California laws against taping telephone calls made it impractical.

You really gotta wonder about the people who will work these jobs, don't you? I mean, I know that jobs are scarce and people are desperate, but it would take a special kind of person to be able to harass other people all day and then go home and go to sleep at night.

I can almost instantly tell that the majority of the ones who have called me are not the brightest crayons in the box. They are getting off on their moment of power, etc.

They started calling and when I answered they would hang up. They thought I was hiding someone in my house and they were hoping that invisable person would finally answer the phone. This started after I told them about 20 times that it wasn't me, not my name, not my social but they had my phone number down with the wrong name and address.

I actually called the State Attorney General about this and there is a way to get it stopped thru their office - some form that you file. They are very proactive about this sort of harrassment. They also really get on telephone scams, too.

What I did was look in the phone book for the person they were really after and called them back and talked to a manager and gave them the information that way. And it stopped.

But then I felt guilty about giving up someone else. However the person they were after was listed in the white pages - same name and address so that all they would have had have done was just looked them up. That phone number was one number off from mine.

especially if you're in an office that has relatively high turnover...I'm still getting a couple auto-calls each week for unknown co-workers who left 4-5 years ago...Good luck trying to call them back and speak to a real person to try and sort it out...Also, I work on a college campus, and you'd be surprised how many students give out a random school office's number as their own to loan companies, cell phone providers, etc...

It can make you go crazy--When I was in college, we had to get our own phone service through BellSouth, and sophomore year I was given the old number to some business fax machine...Evidently that company was international, because EVERY morning around 3:30 my phone would ring off the hook and I'd jump out of my bed only to hear clicks and screeches...

The first company kept billing me after I cancelled. They sold it to a debt collector. I only answered the phone call the first time, and when the caller identified himself as a collector I told him I had cancelled the policy and didn't owe anything. After that whenever I saw that phone number on caller ID I simply didn't answer the phone. It took a year of ignoring their calls before they went away.

www.debtorboards.com

My personal experience is with repo idiots with whom I have had some success in getting arrested and costing them a fair amount of money when they have trespassed onto my property.

I hated the job from day one but I was facing a long period of unemployment and they offered me a job on the spot so I took it, only until something else came along (it's a lot easier to get a job when you are employed). They sold the job to me as a "bankruptcy specialist" (Before I got into politics I was in the finance industry and my goal was to become a bankruptcy counselor). I thought the job would give me the opportunity to learn about the then new bankruptcy law. The job was awful from day one and everyone knew it. We were monitored to the point where we had to ask permission to use the bathroom and were written up if we did so excessively.

I very rarely did outbound calls (the agency I worked for had 4 offices and we were the one that handled the inbound calls). They would call us after receiving a letter in the mail saying they owed us money (it was mostly old phone bills that they owed on). We were told to say that we were here to help them settle their debt for a fraction of what they really owed. The older the debt, the lower the settlement percentage was. Occasionally we had large bills such as car repos but not very often. There was a legal dept but if an account came up, all I did was transfer the call. We were not allowed to threaten a customer or use profanity, but often the reverse happened. I gave my notice after a customer called me a very offensive word that rhymes with hunt. (Note-- I have the mouth of a sailor and there's only one word that offends me). I lasted there 6 months, which is longer than the average person. My friends and family said that I became a very negative person when I was working there and were relieved to see me quit.

Most of the people there hated the job as much as I did. I was 26 when I worked there and was one of the older people there. Most people there were recent college grads thinking their degree would get them an awesome job but instead wound up as collectors because they needed something to pay their student loans off (almost everyone lived with their parents too). We had zero flexibility when it came to negotiating with customers and how we were treated. Almost all management was against us. So if you get a call from a collection agency, chances are you are dealing with the bottom of the totem pole and someone who is just afraid of what management will do to people.

To those of you who are dealing with collectors-- there is a legal way to get them to leave you alone. If you send them what is called a "cease and decist" letter (google it for a sample) IN WRITING, then they have to comply and it is illegal for them to further communicate with you. Before you pay them a dime, put the ball in their court and make them "validate" the debt (aka make them produce the paperwork saying you owe the $$ in the first place). Again do this in writing. If you need any further advice on dealing with collectors, you can PM me or visit www.creditboards.com for some helpful tips.

If the debt is valid and you wish to pay it, you have the right to pay it to the original creditor, no matter who now owns the debt. In-house collectors are usually less odious than outside; plus they're glad to be collecting on a 'bad' debt and most make no percentage on their collections, so there's nothing in if for them either way.

...or outright owns the supposed debt.

You have a right to pay the creditor directly IF they still own the debt and merely contract with a debt collector to make the calls. If the debt collector actually purchased the debt, they are the creditor.

This is the low end of a particularly slimy business.

I'm talking 5+ years that the original creditor often no longer had a record of it and long wrote it off.