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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 02:51 PM
Original message
"A contra-style group based in the United States called the Libyan National Army.”
A CIA commander for the Libyan rebels
28 March 2011

The Libyan National Council, the Benghazi-based group that speaks for the rebel forces fighting the Gaddafi regime, has appointed a long-time CIA collaborator to head its military operations. The selection of Khalifa Hifter, a former colonel in the Libyan army, was reported by McClatchy Newspapers Thursday and the new military chief was interviewed by a correspondent for ABC News on Sunday night.

Hifter’s arrival in Benghazi was first reported by Al Jazeera on March 14, followed by a flattering portrait in the virulently pro-war British tabloid the Daily Mail on March 19. The Daily Mail described Hifter as one of the “two military stars of the revolution” who “had recently returned from exile in America to lend the rebel ground forces some tactical coherence.” The newspaper did not refer to his CIA connections.

snip

To those who can read between the lines, this profile is a thinly disguised indication of Hifter’s role as a CIA operative. How else does a high-ranking former Libyan military commander enter the United States in the early 1990s, only a few years after the Lockerbie bombing, and then settle near the US capital, except with the permission and active assistance of US intelligence agencies? Hifter actually lived in Vienna, Virginia, about five miles from CIA headquarters in Langley, for two decades.

The agency was very familiar with Hifter’s military and political work. A Washington Post report of March 26, 1996 describes an armed rebellion against Gaddafi in Libya and uses a variant spelling of his name. The article cites witnesses to the rebellion who report that “its leader is Col. Khalifa Haftar, of a contra-style group based in the United States called the Libyan National Army.”

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/pers-m28.shtml


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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. k&r
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. I thought We , the People voted against this sort of thing
You know CHANGE, we can beleive in.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. "read between the lines" - means make shit up
This is a crap article. wsws.org is as credible as Alex Jones.

The people who are part of the NTC now - will NOT be part of the new government of Libya.

Btw, the Gaddafi government was itself a terrorist organization.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. This has been the way our government does things ever since I can remember.
It's depressing that there has been zero movement in my lifetime, to tell you the truth.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. That the Libyan insurection was rooted in a Western coup plot is indisputable.
What is impressive is the overwhelming ferocity of the "Arab Spring" propaganda surrounding the current
campaign to topple the regime.

Nothing much has changed in the composition or goals of the opposition factions since the 90's but under the umbrella of "humanitarian" support for "Arab Spring" protests the West has this time launched a brutal air campaign without much protest from world opinion. It has be a spectacularly successful, if cynical, use of the "Arab Spring" phenomenon.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. As someone who was active in the debunking of the Contras
I can't say how disturbing it is to see this replay.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Really ?
Please provide the indisputable facts.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. How could there be a "coup plot" against someone who "holds no official position?"
:rofl:

Seriously.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
52. Yes, Instigating a civil war for profit is so, so, funny to the warmongers. It has always been so
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. The CONTRA is such a close parallel to the MO in Libya except for the smokescreen of "Arab Spring"

The are of course extremely well funded since they had broad backing from the GCC (Saudi, Qatar, UAE) over the years as well as Western interests.

It is a real disgrace that Obama was not able to halt this pernicious "intervention" scheme. I personally feel the the deal with the GCC is rooted in the Clinton relationship with these Oil Potentate regimes.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The "Arab Spring" is only a very slight revision of that earlier frame.
That old felon Reagan framed his dirty wars in Central America as part of the Cold War, the fight against commies. He was in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua, to save people. Natch.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Pure unadultered garbage.
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 09:56 PM by tabatha
I hope you never meet any of the Libyans who have been affected by Gaddafi - and I don't believe there is a single family who has not had been harmed by him. So, you will probably have to avoid all Libyans.

But to post this garbage against their desire to be free --- all I can say, is how do you sleep at night?
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I am sure Tabatha was in FBI-infiltrated protest movements against the Contra war - and knows all
about how these things go.

A very knowledgeable person I must conclude from the thoughtful analysis.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Do you know that Khalifa Hifter has been sidelined?
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 10:03 PM by tabatha
Since you know so much about Libya, why did you not point out that

"Minister Abdel Fattah Younes al Abidi, who was appointed head of the rebel forces " ????

And did you also not know that Younes defected on the first day of the uprising and has no CIA connections?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. And you have proof that the "Contra war" was exactly the same (updated)
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 11:26 PM by Cerridwen
as what's been happening in Libya...to moammar (pick your spelling) the Libyan Huey Long, as you once tried to paint him.

edit to add: I expect your reply in about 5 or so hours as by then you'll expect that I won't once again reply and debate. That strategy may not work again. I let it slide last time; in the future, well, you never know with me.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. You keep waving that flag. All I have to do is wait
because I've seen this movie before and I know how it ends. And I sleep just fine, thanks.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. I doubt you'll lose sleep when it doesn't "end" how you "know how."
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. That's ridiculous, the "Arab Spring" exists in opposition to tyranny, not socio-economic politics.
Mubarak, Selah, Assad, Ben Ali, Gaddafi, they all have different socio-economic politics, which is why it's been framed as an "Arab Spring." It's not people going "oh we hate commies" or "oh we hate capitalists" it's people going "we hate these eternal decrees that block any sort of free expression, either economic or political."

Fairly certain I'm on your ignore as you haven't responded to me in forever, so I'm only responding because people need to see how nonsensical this crap is.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. How? The contras were not supported by popular uprising (TNC has 90% support)...
...the contras got mostly covert funding from the CIA, the rebels are openly asking for public funding through Gaddafi western-investments. The differences are overwhelming, so much so that it appears your comment only stands as a baseless slander against people fighting against a tyrant.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
49. SORRY, FALSE AGAIN -- Brazen war propaganda to use false info over and over and over
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 03:24 AM by Distant Observer
Could you please link to this poll so we can all see WHO WAS POLLED, if any, beyond the Cyrenaicans who have been in opposition to the revolution since it toppled their King over 40 years ago.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. You have not provided one reasonable bit of evidence that shows they're comparable.
They're not by any means, simply using all caps will not change that fact.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Unrec for wsws...nt
Sid
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Rec, because it's fact.
Jack.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. How... please provide the facts.
It is pure garbage.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. McClatchy newspapers are known for accuracy.
Libyan rebel leader spent much of past 20 years in suburban Virginia

FYI: McClatchy is one of the few news sources who went against Bush Inc in the run-up to war. Funny, so did WSWS.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. He is NOT in charge of the rebles - he was sidelined.
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 09:52 PM by tabatha


Al Jazeera English Liveblog Former Libyan Interior Minister Abdel Fattah Younes al Abidi, who was appointed head of the rebel forces after defecting, arrives at a checkpoint near the frontline, outside Brega in eastern Libya.

~~~~~

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Adulfatah Yunis was rumored to have defected on the first day of the revolution and it was confirmed a day or two later. He comes from a good family and i knew his brother personally in the seventies, a real gentlemen. I think he was the best balancing act you can find from the Eastern part of Libya through four miserable decades. If you have a concrete proof that he was involved in any of Gaddafi’s crimes please post your evidence other wise STFU. if I have to guess, It sounds like you Mr or Ms Ankha is a paid puppet by the Gadaffi’s to undermine the reputation of an honorable man.

~~~~~

Although Abdel Fatah Younis was hated by many of us libyans, but I am willing to forgive him after all that he did for Benghazi and the east and the libyan fighters in the past weeks … I my self willing to forgive him! I HOPE WE WIN SOON and save lives in the west side of the country … although I am from the east but these days my heart is with the west!!! (how dare he say we will divide? we are one and will always be ONE!)

Abdel Fattah Younes - is a Libyan defector - in charge of the Libyan rebels.



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Thank you. Got a link?
I'd like to, you know, learn more.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. See Cerridwen's post #21
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 10:52 PM by tabatha
and I forgot the link in the previous article

http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/04/photo-abdul-fattah-younes-arrives-at-checkpoint-near-frontline-outside-brega-april-1st/

On edit - all the negative comments to that post never mention contras, only ME conspiracies.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. "I'd like to, you know, learn more" - based on your posting history here, that's baloney.
Your theories, your conjectures, your OP's are repeatedly debunked, picked apart with facts, shown to be riddled with historical falsehoods, yet you persist in posting the same pseudo-spam over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

So, whatever you're talking about here in this reply is not consistent with the facts.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
45. Feel free to pick apart, apocalypsehow. I've got a journal -- show me what's baloney.
As usual for you, all you've got is your opinion.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. wow
maybe you actually do have a sense of humor cuz that is funny!
thanks for the laugh!
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
54. From McClatchy: "Libyan rebel leader with U.S. ties feels abandoned"
BENGHAZI, Libya — Khalifa Hifter thought he'd be America's man in Libya.

He'd spent the last 24 years living under what he calls U.S. government protection in suburban northern Virginia. Before he returned to Libya last month, State Department and CIA officials sought him out for meetings. He delivered to them wish lists of weapons and vehicles to bolster the fight against Moammar Gadhafi.

To his frustration, however, U.S. officials haven't contacted him since. They've ignored his pleas for direct military support while the rebels steadily lose ground to Gadhafi's better-equipped forces.

"The United States is a second home to me," Hifter said. "They should be cooperating with me to help the Libyan people."

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/12/112071/libyan-rebel-chief-with-us-ties.html#ixzz1OUupR2Ur


That's the latest significant mention of Hifter from McClatchy. There's one further sentence from a week later saying his "authority remains uncertain".
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. WSWS can't post a fact if the entire global workers revolution would instantly exist by doing so.
:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
55. !
:spray:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
57. The one derailed by the bombing?
So funny that the United States would go from Libya's ally to enemy in a matter of days.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. Red, because the wsws is late with its conclusions, but right
nevertheless.

I think the only people still fooled by this latest Western war for oil, are here in the US.

And even after Qadaffi is gone, this war will continue. Yay! Another war to make money on!

I am still embarrassed that they fooled me by piggy-backing this war on the Arab Spring for a while.

Those poor people. As soon as they get rid of Qadaffi, they will turn around and say they have to be there to 'fight Al Queda'.

You could almost write the script by now. The PNAC gang must be thrilled. Another Arab nation about to be 'restructured'.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. The Libyan support groups extend to Canada, France, and the UK, actually.
I know that you generalized about "only people still fooled ... are here in the US" but the US supporters of the R2P actions in Libya are more a minority, because there are many more expat Libyans in Canada and the UK than there are the US.

But I will admit you've been fooled.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Just like Iraq. The same 'ex-pat' groups
but the people in general know what this is so do most Arabs. They've seen it all before.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Iraq had a popular uprising?
News to me.

I mentioned expats to show you that your insult was factually inaccurate and just a slander. The Libyans have more support in Canada and the UK than they do in the US.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. The LIBYANS have support everywhere.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 01:50 AM by sabrina 1
What does NOT have support is another NATO invasion of a sovereign nation. It boggles the mind that anyone who cares about those people would wish on them what Afghanistan and Iraq and now apparently Pakistan are suffering under from the exact same 'saviors'.

Explain please what you think is going to happen in Libya when Qadaffi leaves??

And considering this is now the fourth month since the 'popular uprising' began and NATO has been bombing the country for months, not to mention the forces on the ground, they still cannot win the way the Egyptions did in just 18 days and the Tunisians. THOSE truly were popular uprisings with most of their countries behind them. Clearly most Libyans are NOT behind this war. So, with that in mind, explain what will happen after NATO installs a puppet government and at least half the country refuses to accept it??

Or do you really believe that the Global Capitalists behind this war will allow those people to choose their own leaders?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Actually, given that the LIBYANS support the TNC by 90% according to polls done...
...it seems that anyone who is against the revolutionaries is against them. The uprising in Libya is a http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4872438&mesg_id=4873041">popular uprising no ifs ands or butts, anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or lying. The fact that simply leaving ones house and denouncing Gaddafi is punishable by life imprisonment underscore that completely.

Gaddafi may not leave, what will happen is the total collapse of the military structure and the final defection and exile of former Gaddafi supporters. Gaddafi may stay holed up somewhere in Libya for the rest of his life surrounded by his most loyal subjects, and either die or be found out a few years from now. If he does leave it will be all the better, as Yemen is showing.

What will happen in any event is that there will be a constitutional convention in Libya, the people, as a whole, will vote upon the new constitution (likely supervised by the UN) which will be a secular democracy, a first in the Arab world.

The reason your puppet government comments don't stand is because everyone behind the national council has pledged not to run for a government position, they're merely acting as a means to keep the country united until such a process is available.

I can't believe you're still saying that Gaddafi's Libya is the real Libya, and that the revolutionaries are not representative of Libya, despite all of the evidence showing that they rose up united against Gaddafi in 21 cities. Again, the act of dissent is punishable by life imprisonment. The courage the Libyan people displayed is overwhelming.

Not one Egyptian or one Tunisian had to risk life imprisonment for merely protesting.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. FALSE-- Poll of Benghazi area. Of course the Benghazi rebels support themselves. VERY FUNNY
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Misrata and the western mountains weren't polled, but I've seen no evidence they wouldn't concur.
Indeed, I see no evidence whatsoever that the uprising is not a popular one. But one can lie about the rebels if they so chose, history will prove the liars wrong.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. Disturbing.
I suppose they will be promoted in the "Founding Father" image, should the public begin to catch on.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'll 'see' your article from March with one from April and ask for
someone to raise with a current update; from reliable sources.

<snip>

...“Whose army?”

<snip>

The dysfunction was on full display here this week. “I control everybody, the rebels and the regular army forces,” one of the two, Gen. Khalifa Hifter, said in an interview on Monday. “I am the field commander, and Gen. Abdul Fattah Younes is chief of staff. His job is to support us in the field, and my job is to lead the fighting.”

The rebels’ civilian leadership, the Transitional National Council, has insisted, however, that General Younes remains in charge of the military. “This is not true,” an official close to the council said Tuesday when told of General Hifter’s claims. “General Younes is over him, this is for sure, and General Hifter is under him.”

General Hifter made it clear that he viewed General Younes as an officer who was serving in a support or logistical role, and he explicitly blamed him for a string of humiliating retreats by rebels along the seesawing front line between Brega and Ajdabiya, most recently on Sunday, when seven rebels were killed during a counterattack by government forces that turned into a near rout.

<snip to the NYTime article: As British Help Libyan Rebels, Aid Goes to a Divided Force>


If this is how the CIA works, they suck. I'm surprised they're able to accomplish anything.

Now, someone, come up with something more recent and from a reliable source that does not quote WaPo, Daily Mail (?!) and outdated sources for what might be happening now.

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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. May article with updated information...from that 'left-leaning, pro-war...(updated)
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 10:09 PM by Cerridwen
puff-piece" icon, The Economist.

<snip>

On the military front, the rebels have reined in the young men who had at first been recklessly rushing up and down the coastal road to virtually no effect. A clear line of command has at last been laid down, with Colonel Qaddafi’s former interior minister, Abdel Fatah Younis, as commander-in-chief and General Khalifa Haftar, who previously claimed the top spot on his return from many years in the United States, politely sidelined. A civilian, Jalal el-Digheily, has been appointed defence minister in the National Transitional Council (NTC), a fledgling government.

NATO says that co-ordination with the rebels has also improved, enabling targets to be hit with increasing accuracy. Colonel Qaddafi’s forces are also coming under increasing pressure in the Nafusa mountains, a Berber-populated area to the south-west of Tripoli; rebels now control the main nearby crossing-point to Tunisia, though the Libyan regime still holds the coastal one. Though some members of the Western coalition against Colonel Qaddafi have qualms, the British in particular are stretching the definition of UN Security Council resolution 1973, which lets the coalition take “all necessary measures” to protect civilians, to include any target, including infrastructure as well as command-and-control points, that could be of value to the regime in its attacks on rebel-held towns (see article).

On the political front, the rebels have tidied themselves up too. Mustafa Abdel Jalil, a former justice minister under Colonel Qaddafi, is proving a consensual chairman of the NTC, while Mahmoud Jibril, who ran the colonel’s economic development board until he defected and has a doctorate from the University of Pittsburgh, is in effect the prime minister heading an “executive team”. He and his closest ally and deputy, Ali Essawi, who also held senior economic posts under the colonel, have forged close ties with several Gulf states, especially Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. Ali Tarhouni, a former professor at the University of Washington in Seattle, is handling the oil portfolio with aplomb. There are inevitable mutterings that the emerging administration, which stresses its transitional nature, lacks accountability. But foreigners in Benghazi say it has begun to function a lot better.

<snip to much more at link from the Economist>


Emphasis added.

Edit for additional information and perspective.

Khalifa Hifter is an old man trying to be someone, he controls a small group of loyalists...

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. Jalil's area of expertise is privatization.
Younis is no spring chicken at 66 and how this former Gaddafi strongman is an improvement is not self-evident, nor does it obviate how this "mission" has been put together.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. See my post #40
And quit moving the goalposts.

You said one thing, got called on it. Said another, got called on it.

You and I are on the same side; just not on this one.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Abdel Fatah Younis is in charge,
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 09:38 PM by tabatha
Khalifa Hifter has been sidelined.

Your article is DOA!

Please read the following MAY article:
http://www.economist.com/node/18713650?story_id=18713650&fsrc=rss

It is a real pity that inferences and conclusion are drawn without any basis for fact.

The Libyans who are fighting and dying for their desire to be free, are under the command of Younis - no CIA and nothing to do with Contras.

They are coordinating with NATO and often via Gerhard Heinz, a German businessman with a satellite business.

That is all.

Anything else is pure garbage.

And it is a shame - this is a good uprising against a murderous tyrant who should never have ruled for 42 years, and trash like this is trying to cloud their futures. It is disgusting.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
38. Musical assets. Check.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 12:12 AM by EFerrari
Prepare the next rationalization for when we get the skinny on the new man.

ETA: So, there was a change from a CIA asset to a Gaddafi insider and this is an improvement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Fatah_Younis
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. So, what you say isn't true now, so what you say now is...
"this is an improvement?"

You and I are on the same side for so many issues. On this one we disagree. That makes me...or you...right or wrong? Or neither.

I watched a video during the Egyptian uprising. The female activist noted that many from "western powers" view the Arabs as 'rag headed, camel riding, innocents' who are naive about what the "western powers" had in store for them. It was quite the gut punch.

I may be wrong; you may be right. You may be wrong and I may be right. We both may be wrong and right.

We're many years from knowing which.

I hope we're both wrong and right and I hope that those within the Arab nations get what they want and want what they get.

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. I note something missing in this thread....what ever could it be?
:shrug:

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Heh heh
:evilgrin:
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
36. Unrec for wsws. n/t
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 11:51 PM by backscatter712
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. This article is a must read for people trying to keep track
of what is going on in Libya, given that most of the English language media has been blowing smoke up our undies.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
53. Things are not what they seem.

Here we go again.

k&r
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
56. On Old Story but the facts have not changed: A minority militant faction, backed by the West

to achieve its own agendas.

And the common people suffer the heinous consequences of factional killings, destruction, war.

A complicit and compliant regime will be installed. The global Oil conglomerates and financial institutions will the rules and regulations appropriate to maximum profits. Life goes on -- for those still living.
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