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Jeezus Hussein Keryst… What the fuck are they smoking at Salon?

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:22 PM
Original message
Jeezus Hussein Keryst… What the fuck are they smoking at Salon?
Edited on Sun Jun-05-11 07:28 PM by MrScorpio
Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/05/31/linbd_fossil_fuels


Best comment on this bullshit:

Tuesday, May 31, 2011 07:38 AM ET
Dr. Strangelind

Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Global Warming

—DLF
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Apparently they heard you.
or it's my shitty ass intertoobs connection doing it's normal thing.

Page Not Found (404)

The Salon.com page you are looking for cannot be found. The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. 404 error on that link
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littlewolf Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. 404 here also ....
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fixed the link
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Links to a counterpoint to this article and a reply to counterpoint by
author of this article.

www.salon.com/news/env/energy/?story=/tech/htww/2011/06/01/response_to_lind

A new golden age for fossil fuels? Huh?

If Michael Lind's intention, in his Salon article published Tuesday, "Everything You've Heard About Fossil Fuels May Be Wrong," was to throw so many bombs at once that critics would be too buried by shrapnel to respond, then he at least partially succeeded. It's hard to know where to start grappling with a column that simultaneously dismisses the challenge of global warming, declares a new golden age of fossil fuels that could last millennia, ridicules renewable energy technologies such as wind and solar while advocating a massive nuclear power buildup, and even throws in a few digs at city living and organic agriculture, just for fun. Readers who might more logically expect to see such sentiments espoused in the National Review or the American Spectator than in Salon were unsurprisingly annoyed.

The article is built on two parallel assertions. First, new technologies have unlocked vast quantities of natural gas (and will deliver a lot more oil, as well, to take care of all our energy needs into the distant future, and second, catastrophic climate change is a "low probability" event that we don't need to worry about. Let's start with the second claim, because how we think about climate change drastically affects how we think about fossil fuels.

<snip - much more at link above>


Lind's reply to above response:

I Am Not a 'Global Warming Denialist'

In his thoughtful criticism of my essay on the future of fossil fuels and the poor prospects for renewable energy, Andrew Leonard characterizes my message as one that "we have nothing to worry about." This may be partly the fault of my presentation, because in the course of being provocative I did not make it sufficiently clear that I was engaged in analysis, not advocacy. I made the prediction that, even in the presence of global warming, the countries of the world are unlikely to allow the vast stores of fossil fuels in the earth’s crust to lie there undisturbed, when technology is making many of them ever more accessible and cheaper than the renewable energy alternatives. For the record, I personally wish that greenhouse gas emissions would stop immediately, and I personally would prefer a world of harmonious international cooperation for all time. Neither of my personal preferences is going to be fulfilled and neither affects the accuracy of my analysis.

My argument is that the replacement of fossil fuels by large-scale renewable energy is politically unrealistic, even though it is technically feasible. On questions of technical feasibility, I defer to scientists like David J.C. MacKay, professor of natural philosophy at Cambridge and the chief scientific adviser to the UK Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC). His widely-praised and nonpartisan book "Sustainable Energy: Without the Hot Air" is available for free online.

<snip - again, much more at link above>


Looking at the website for the New America Foundation, it looks to me like The Young DLC. But, ymmv.

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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Apparently even Salon.com has a price tag nt
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. what if blue was red
what a gasbag
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. A fifth-generation native of Texas hyping fossil fuels?
Imagine that.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. That's the
most bizarre crap I've ever read.

<..>

The renewable energy movement is not the only campaign that will be marginalized in the future by the global abundance of fossil fuels produced by advancing technology. Champions of small-scale organic farming can no longer claim that shortages of fossil fuel feedstocks will force a return to pre-industrial agriculture.

Another casualty of energy abundance is the new urbanism. Because cars and trucks and buses can run on natural gas as well as gasoline and diesel fuel, the proposition that peak oil will soon force people around the world to abandon automobile-centered suburbs and office parks for dense downtowns connected by light rail and inter-city trains can no longer be taken seriously. Deprived of the arguments from depletion, national security and global warming, the campaign to increase urban density and mass transit rests on nothing but a personal taste for expensive downtown living, a taste which the suburban working-class majorities in most developed nations manifestly do not share.

Eventually civilization may well run out of natural gas and other fossil fuels that are recoverable at a reasonable cost, and may be forced to switch permanently to other sources of energy. These are more likely to be nuclear fission or nuclear fusion than solar or wind power, which will be as weak, diffuse and intermittent a thousand years from now as they are today. But that is a problem for the inhabitants of the world of 2500 or 3000 A.D.

In the meantime, it appears that the prophets of an age of renewable energy following Peak Oil got things backwards. We may be living in the era of Peak Renewables, which will be followed by a very long Age of Fossil Fuels that has only just begun.


:wtf:



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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. I would accuse him of concocting this tripe along with Daniel Yergin,
of Cambridge Energy Research Associates, who has been one of the more vocal Peak Oil deniers for some time now. Perhaps on the golf course, with many fine laughs over the gullibility of their expected readers. But it appears even CERA has admitted "Peak Oil is here":

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/49178
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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. "a former neo-conservative writer"


Michael Lind is the Whitehead Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation. He is the author, with Ted Halstead, of The Radical Center: The Future of American Politics (Doubleday, 2001). He is also the author of Made in Texas: George W. Bush and the Southern Takeover of American Politics (New America Books/Basic, 2003) and What Lincoln Believed (Doubleday, 2005). Mr. Lind has been an editor or staff writer for The New Yorker, Harper's Magazine, and The New Republic. From 1991 to 1994, he was executive editor of The National Interest. He has also been a guest lecturer at Harvard Law School. Mr. Lind has written for The Atlantic Monthly, Prospect (U.K.), The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, The Financial Times, and other leading publications, and has appeared on C-SPAN, National Public Radio, CNN's Crossfire, and PBS's The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.


yeah. freakin genius
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theophilus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Insanity. Pure greed fueled insanity.
Even if we could use petroleum without killing ourselves with climate change the waste and poisoning of water (and we NEED water) would mean that these techniques should be outlawed. This is just crazy talk and if we, the people, don't just say NO! we are doomed.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. "I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed due to Global Warming, tops."
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. You know what's funny?
The name of this Salon blog is the "War Room". I shit you not.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Hmm...
Time for me to back slowly away from the Internet.
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Buck Turgidson Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
19.  "Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines"
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. Maybe they're smoking the asbestos in the insulation.
I dunno. I couldn't access the story.
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The Unawriter Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Pay no mind to M.E. Williams
How she gets paid for writing drivel I'll never know.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
17. A giant pile of speculative babble.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:15 AM by bemildred
Some of it outright dishonest, e.g. the snowball earth scenario which he references proves nothing at all one way or the other about much of anything, it's just thrown on the pile because it demonstrates "error" in green energy/peak oil advocates.

Another one is the claim that "The scenarios with the most catastrophic outcomes of global warming are low probability outcomes". Nobody knows what is going to happen or what the probabilities are for any particular outcome, so he has no way to actually know that, that is just a guess, possibly and educated guess, but still just a guess.
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