Yes, I expect politicians who really care about the causes they espouse

to behave in a way that doesn't bring about a major scandal and that doesn't discredit them. That means keeping their private lives private, not acting impulsively. It means being aware of the poisonous political atmosphere they live in. That has zip to do with prudery and it just doesn't seem that much to ask.

To me,it's evident that Weiner cares far more about Weiner than about any liberal cause. He knew he was taking big risks and he knew, roughly, what would happen if he were caught out.

He didn't care enough to not do it or to change his behavior.

He hung us out to dry.

.. there are people out there that get off on taking big risks. They do it because they have gotten away with it before and they think they are going to get away with it forever.

This IDIOT has thrown away not only a potentially great career but the opportunity to make a difference, all over sexting and compulsively showing off his junk.

I have zero sympathy for him, not an ounce and I don't WANT ASSHOLES who are willing to take RIDICULOUS RISKS in positions of power.

Anyone should know that if you engage in that sort of behavior for an extended period of time you will eventually be found out.

another, though they may share some attributes.

this is an expectation we all live with in all parts of our lives. i have this expectation of children. my parents had it of myself.

years ago, when i was a teen having conversation with my mom she said we all... and that includes you kids, we all have a responsibility with our choices that effect family members. saying my behavior was a reflection on them.

as much as many well disagree with that on du, i tend to agree. and took it to heart. adn lived accordingly and it has served me well.

that is not perfection btw.

aren't seeing this. It seems kind of basic: how much did Weiner really care if he was willing to so cavalierly risk it all?

is a society of me me me.... me more important and a must and gotta have it beyond anyone else. and if i really really want it, then it is ok

where sexting your gonads is normal and if you don't then YOU are the freak that doesn't understand human sexuality.

we chose du, from my family. my guys continually tell me, look around. doesnt look the same as what you are reading on line.

Many DUers are calling for Mr Weiner to leave but it isn't unanimous. Many, including myself, are greatly disappointed that another political 'hero' figure has turned out to be not just unheroic but clearly orients disrespectfully toward women while engaged in risky behavior. This has pushed many of the disappointed toward anger and/or revulsion. These later emotions are motivating calls for Mr. Weiner to resign and to 'take his stink away'.

Why do that? These emotions are associated with defense. When angry or repulsed by something, we want that something to stop. It seems plausible that what is wanted by those calling for Mr. Weiner's resignation is for their association with Mr. Weiner's bad behavior to stop.

Where once there was an ally and defender of the faith, now there is a pariah. And people don't want the guilt by association with his bad behavior. That desire is easily turned into wishing he'd resign and take the taint of his bad behavior along with him. That's basic group behavior called shunning. It's well known. It's important to remember that feeling is not so much about Mr. Wiener as it is about how those calling for the shunning feel about protecting themselves and their in-group. That sort of group policing is quite understandable sociologically and personally. Frankly, I don't know anyone who wants to be associated with his bad behavior. But not everyone wants to endorse the shunning and are willing to leave it in the hands of his constituents.

the second thing...

You expressed concern that Mr. Weiner didn't care enough about being a Representative and one of our advocates to not engage in cavalier risks. I understand that you feel that way and that characterization of cavalierness does partly explains the nature your disappointment with Mr. Weiner. But, on inspection you should see that characterization is your orientation/values being projected onto Mr. Weiner. He may not orient cavalierly to his behavior at all.

I can project a different orientation onto Mr. Weiner because I am plagued by an impulse disorder. Impulse disorders are basically about surrendering to urges to do things that involve risk or self-harm. These impulses could be to engage in many things including shop-lifting, gambling, alcoholism, fast driving, self-punishment, hair-pulling, self-cutting, 'picking at open sores', credit card over-purchases, or...risky sexual behavior. Most sufferers recognize their behaviors as potentially harmful. Many sufferers would like to break these self-damaging behaviors but they aren't able to control their urges as healthy adults can. They aren't really cavalier about it. They recognize and frequently feel guilt and shame. They just can't sustain control over their impulses.

I'm no psychologist and I can't diagnose Mr. Weiner or his sexting. But, impulse disorders associated with telephone sex are well known. Twittering would seem to me to provide an alternative venue for a sexual impulse disorder that could include images. I'm willing to say Mr. Weiner's behavior may not be something as simple as willful bad behavior.



So, I'm willing to say Mr. Weiner's sexting behavior is a thing with which I don't want myself or my party associated. I recognize that's about me. I also recognize that Mr Weiner's behavior may be pathological and quite difficult for him to control.

I feel he's 100% accountable for his behavior, but I'm also willing to entertain the idea that he may not be 100% in control of that behavior and that he wasn't out to disappoint me or to embarrass the Democratic Party.

Why do you like Clarence Thomas so much?
Are you a tool?
:sarcasm:




(I shit you not, these statements are right here at DU)

but I notice with some amusement that those who are most vociferous in their defense of Weiner and in blaming everyone but him for this mess, are steering studiously clear of dealing with the OP.

Because his politics are of such high standard.
Boy was I wrong.

to cause a huge scandal.

I'm wrong. It could have been an honest mistake. Maybe he never picked up a paper, watched the news, or understands what the internet is. Yeah that's the ticket. Because there's no way this thing could've turned out any other way.

Who cares about the sexual aspect. I'm a gay man. I've sexted plenty. I don't care.

I do care about Weiner's stupidity, his carelessness, his cluelessness, his unbridled ego, his easy accusations of hacking, etc. etc. etc.

The crucial difference between Weiner's sexual behavior and mine is that he ran for public office, he knew what that entailed, he knew the level of scrutiny that was built into the job, and he knew the slightest thing would be used by his opponents to bring him down.

And he did it anyway.

I may do what I do, but I do it under the knowledge that no one anywhere gives a damn where I'm sending messages or pictures outside of my actual boyfriend who I'm sending them to. If I were a high profile public servant, you can be god-damned sure I'd exercise a level of discretion I currently do not. Because it's common-fucking-sense.

I don't particularly care for politicians who don't seem to understand common sense. People like that don't understand a lot of crucial things.

he knew the risk he was running and he didn't care enough to not do this shit. Or he couldn't help himself. And how much time did he spend doing it, anyway? He couldn't find any real work to do?

I'm not exactly the Supreme Conqueror of the World, but I certainly don't have the time to text all over the place, juggling online relationships with multiple partners. I'd hope and pray that our representatives were more occupied than Rep. Weiner seemed to be.

Why is it I have to work my ass off only to have an hour or two at night for myself and my family, but this guy just had gobs of time to pursue his latest internet fantasy? Why am I spending more time on my shit job than he is in helping run the country?

So many shades of over-entitled dickwad happening here.

Do you believe we'd all be better off if Kennedy had been hounded out of Congress in 1969? Or were his years of service after that worth having kept him around?

Human beings are imperfect, cali. And politicians are more imperfect than most, because they tend to be fueled by ego -- and often by libido.

I'm not altogether happy about living under a system of government that promotes the most ego-centered to positions of power. I'd have a lot more trust in people who were simply devoted to doing a job and doing it well.

But it's the system we've got. Anthony Weiner is a product of that system -- and you can't reform it by getting rid of him. Nothing would really change, and at most you'd get a set of cannier hypocrites.

I think at this point a chastened Weiner is likely to serve our interests far better than any likely alternative. And I believe even more strongly that if we've got to deal with government-by-politicians, it's far better to have them knowing they could survive the revelation of their peccadilloes (at the cost of some personal embarrassment) than to have them subject to blackmail by the Breitbarts of this world.

vehicular homicide. I don't believe in justice for the rich and powerful being different than justice for the rest of us. It grieves me to say that because I actually knew him slightly- through my friend David Kennedy, Teddy's nephew, but I think he got away with it because his name was Teddy Kennedy. And no, I don't think that's right.

Look, Weiner isn't known as a good legislator. And he'll obviously no longer be an effective spokesman. So I don't see him serving our interests terribly well in the future.

And really, is it asking too much of a politician that they not bring scandal down on their own heads? Seems like a modest expectation to me.

Read right wing sites. Every single time Teddy's name comes up he is linked with what he did and the death of that woman. They will never let it go.

I mourn for what he may have been able to accomplish if not for that incident.

I think people are forgetting or ignoring that salient fact.

Without a scandal, it is highly likely that he not Carter would have won in 1976. It is then possible that he could have won a second term over Reagan. First off, there would be not opening for an Anderson run. Second, Kennedy would have been a FAR more charismatic leader than Carter.

As a teacher I'm expected to abide by a standard of morals. It doesn't matter if I agree with that standard. It doesn't matter if that standard is considered prudish or too restrictive. It is what it is. If I want to keep my job, I follow the rules.

I wish Weiner understood that. Apparently he does not.

it really is that simple, and we ALL face this in our life. no excuses for fail. all on the person that choices to put position (or marriage) at risk. not gonna make excuses for them

At the end of every school year I used to take students out to dinner or to a movie or amusement park or baseball game as a reward for good work and behavior. Then about 10 years ago my district adopted a policy forbidding employees from transporting students in their cars or having social events like I had been doing. So I had to stop. Of course it disappointed me and I never felt that what I was doing was inappropriate. When I talk to former students today they mention my end of the year reward and how much they enjoyed it. But if I want to keep my job, I can't do it.

why people pretend they do not "get it" so they can defend, excuse.... is pretty obvious

Was as fine a rep for progressive politics as you could want -
Until.
Took most by total surprise including myself.

and there are enough of those in Congress.

It doesn't make any sense to anyone who has any honest understanding of many men throughout history (women too but they tend to have much more tight lip partners and are more careful about these things. They also have partners less likely to get hacked off and expose the affairs) but your phony charge (another one used by the Republicans against Bill Clinton) just doesn't make sense.

There have been people throughout history and in times of much more prudish bent have done far wilder things than Wiener for longer and literally given their very lives for causes.

You think Gandhi wasn't committed, or King, hell some Gnostics think Christ had a family on the side. You think the Kennedy's didn't care about their work? I'm not a Bubba fan but the man did his fucking job right through the shit storm.

I think that in any form of context the point you've decided to hang on is just stupid and unaccepting of humanity in leaders and you are thinking and working hard to create odd linkages were they simply aren't present to make a point that doesn't even seem valid on its face with any sense of history that isn't very sanitized.

The "atmosphere" argument is weak too, it is 2011 and much worse has come out. It is elements like you that are driving the press and giving the numbers and feedback that make this silly distraction a story. You are feeding the trolls and strengthening them as well as flat out inviting them to dig around personal lives for fodder for this kind of shenanigans and stupidity.

"He doesn't care enough..." piffle fucking piffle and nonsense, motherfuckers have fucking died for causes and maintained sex lives that would apparently cause you and yours to meltdown and explode your fucking heads.

because they have tight lipped partners. pish posh and nonsense. and perilously close to saying women can't help themselves from blabbing and men are discreet.

and what phony charge. that he was reckless? really? you think he wasn't. now that's bizarre.

As far as history goes, so what. In this particular day and age, you can't behave as stupidly and recklessly as Weiner did without risking being found out, and he knew the consequences.

I'm not driving the press, dear. I don't watch TV at all. I don't engage in any way with the MSM. It's just moronic to suggest that I'm driving this scandal.

Your obdurate refusal to assign any blame to Weiner is incredibly pathetic.

And sorry, honey, but there ain't nothing (beyond life threatening shit) that two people do consensually that would shock me. You know jack shit about me or my sexual history. I can guarantee you it's a lively and varied one.

Your idiotic projection is just another silly aspect of your whole shtick re poor wittle weiner.

Oh, and he's well and truly fucked with a mighty big dick.

do and validate the entire kerfuffle.

This distraction has little legs without fainting couch Democrats and Democratic hypocrites out for political blood and Democratic political coward scared that the mean old TeaPubliKlans will call them out on their family values or whatever because they are ideologically devoted to letting bullies take the day without consequences.

Yeah, I refuse to assign blame to someone who did something in his personal life that is none of my concern. I have nothing to "blame" him for, he is not my partner nor do I have or desire to sit in judgment of his affairs and relationships. There is no "blame" because he didn't do any thing that reflects poorly on his performance and certainly nothing whatsoever to indicate he doesn't care about the causes he espouses any more than Gandhi, King, or Clinton who must have cared because he was still effective during much more of a ruckus with far greater accountability. He certainly did many things I despise and consider worse than anything related to Lewinsky but it wasn't from not being focused on his job but because of his Turd Way ideology.

I just think "doesn't care" is inappropriate considering that many that I think have unquestionable devotion have gone way deeper into the rabbit hole.
An
The charge is fundamentally nonsensical and chock full of idol worship/pedestal building.
You are separating these politicians from their humanity when you say folks that may well be devoted enough to give up living leaving children without a parent and their parents to bury their child really don't care or they would not have had an affair or sent pictures or had children outside their marriages.

Devotion and singular obsession to the exclusion of their person are not the same thing and of course such a thing is not something to be expected or even desirable, in my opinion.