K&R if you're sticking with the Democratic Party!

:bounce:

Pray tell what choice we have... I may not be pleased with a lot going on right now, but I'm not one to vote in total disregard to my principles and interests.

That said, I'm certainly not feeling the "rah, rah, rah" after reports this morning that there may be a pending "cave" on social security and medicare and with so many RETHUG talking points being adopted by prominent Dems. :eyes:

Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, all of them. You're free to dispute this if you'd like, and I'd be willing to read someone's analysis if they can cite where they got the voting record from in order to show that they actually looked at it (or looked at someone else's analysis of it).

what they are voting for or against or allowing a vote on. Sure, the Democrats are better than the Republicans today. But so is my dog (which died in 2007). We can only do the best we can do in a limited system.

And without alienating the people who are benefiting. And all the work I suggest doing would still have to be done in supporting a third party, if you are truly serious about making progress. The fact of the matter is, people who threaten to splinter either have not thought their proposition all the way through and seen that it is just as - if not significantly more - difficult as getting what they want through the Democratic Party, or the entire threat is a manipulative canard to begin with. Democratic Underground should be a place where someone, after having visited, can go out and be a more effective activist, not a place where people feel they have the freedom and power to get away with foisting canards on people who should at least partially be their allies, and wasting their time.

voted on the state platform (which looks alot different than what our representatives do), have been precinct treasurer, worked on campaigns, etc. There needs to be some kind of movement but I don't know from where or how.

to get more people to support it. The once support is widespread enough, the primary candidates can vie for those voters. It takes time, and effort, yes. You would be doing these same things within a third party, and would bear the additional burden of convincing people that they get nothing from the Democratic Party, which most people don't really believe.

The constant ignoring of the platform committees is proof.

Who is ignoring who? Can you cite any evidence?

party platforms and voted on by the majority of delegates when they go to Washington. That is my evidence. I'm not saying you have to believe me or agree with me. But I cannot unknow what I know. I've been through the process too many times. I'm not going through that process anymore. I'm not stupid enough to waste my time in that way anymore. I'm going directly into my communities and try to improve local life. DC is lost.

It takes time and effort to engage people to support positions that the administration can undercut with little time and little effort.

We can yell, organize, and plead our cause all we want, but we still have to wait until at least the next election to make ourselves heard - in the meantime, SS benefits are gut, taxes for the rich NOT cut, and WE can't do anything about it.

We have to join advocacy groups, organize, petition, and vote. All they have to do is ignore us.

If there was a viable Socialist option I'd vote that way in a heartbeat.

How are you defining significant partisan voting record? Because if I hear "he voted 96% of the time with his party" one more time when I know how important the 4% was and what the leg was in the 96%, I'll scream.

not a Dem. This independent won't.

I, for one, am happy to see a "go us!" thread as opposed to the gloom, doom and drama this week. Trying to convince liberals to leave the party is unhelpful. Get the fuck out there and WORK for the liberal Democrats. There are plenty. Look in your own backyard. The people in Washington don't magically appear there, they start locally. Get out there and help your local Democrats and help build the leaders of tomorrow.

But... I am in Wisconsin and we're in deep shit right now. We have recall elections that include Republicans on the Democratic primary in several races. We have to beat them TWICE in the next 2 months. We don't have time to be dramatic.

and yes, some of my own Colorado Dems who I have worked to get elected and who have managed to push back against some of the most regressive state actions from taking hold in my state.

We're all going to vote Dem...instead of this bullshit idea that we're going to not vote or vote non-Dem we should get involved and make the changes we want made ourselves. Start with the school board or city council...hell just attend those meetings and speak out as a citizen!
What are we going to do - Start the Lemonade Party?

That was my first thought as well. There are no other logical options. (Suicide is not a logical option for me.)

The alternative is ugly

as long as the Democratic Party sticks with the Democratic Party.

A Democratic Party that rejects FDR, Truman and Johnson is NOT the Democratic Party - it is interlopers who have absconded with the name.

:applause:

Am I going to hold my nose and vote for them? Sure. What choice do I have?

But do I have to be happy that they've gone along with, enabled, and allowed a drastic, sharp rightward lurch in the Democratic party and what it stands for and what has been done to the country simply because Republicans shifted themselves hard right? Fuck no. I'm pissed and I'll continue to say so. The Democratic party as it sits here in 2011 has by and large failed America, and definitely failed middle and working class Americans.

There's a reason that the Republicans have embraced the Tea Party. Because they know they can't win without their hardcore base. Democrats have yet to realize that. And they've scared enough people (myself included) into believing that the only way they can win is by beating up and punching the hippies in their base. I get that. The galling part to me is how they then come begging those same hippies for money and support and time when they need to win elections.

Will I "stick with" the democratic party by voting for Democrats? Sure.

Will my sentiment still be "Fuck them and what they've done to this country" to a whole lot of them? Yes, it still will.

The political Parties are tools we made for our own use and ease of political action, they are not principles nor are they foundational elements of the Republic. We could have other Parties, or even no Parties, under our Constitution.
I sure do not see you as a poster who supports all Democrats without reservation, so this is an odd, odd thing for you to post. Most Democrats will not shout 'vote him out' about a Democrat without checking first to see if the only other alternative is a Republican. Checking after coming out against the Democrat is perhaps honest, but just as likely to be an 'I got found out' sort of reaction. Because you very often post about going after Democrats you do not like, but never in those posts are you suggesting a Democratic alternative. To me, it is one thing to advocate for one Democrat over another, not the same to advocate against a Democrat in a vacuum. That is just advocating against, not for, a Democrat. It is what it is.
So you speaking of loyalty to the Party is stunningly ironic. The day before an election, the day after an election, there are some Democratic officials you simply advocate against, without offering an alternative Democrat, as a practice, as one of your defining habits.

"Sticking with" = enabling.

Time for an intervention.

Bake

I generally have a good memory.

Don

could you end up with zero recs.

Clearly, only an idiot would come to DU expecting to find other dedicated Dems.

More and more I come to see what the daily Obama outrage will be.

Today it appears that the outrages are

1) Obama made Weiner resign.

2) Obama made AARP shift its position on Social Security.

Can't wait to see what it is tomorrow.

Because usually when a Democratic president goes against traditional Democratic values, there are going to be legitimate complaints to be made.

With "the stimulus was too small" ... sure, it was probably the largest in history, but he failed.

Then, the arguments that he's had a filabuster proof Senate for 2 years ... when it was actual about 6 months.

Or the year during which folks here screamed that Obama was secretly against repealing DADT.

Or how any second he's going to announce huge cuts to social security.

Or how he was definitely working behind the scenes to keep Mubarak in power.

He hates Unions (but saved the US auto industry).

I could go on.

The guy isn't perfect, but around here ... well, its becoming a parallel left wing Tea Party Universe.

And so, going back some years, I'd come here to discuss how the Dems could prevent the GOP from destroying the country. Now, I come to see the latest reason why Dems should just stay home in 2012.

I find it interesting that we see lots of anti-Obama OPs that are just some one ranting. Not a discussion of something specific, just some one jumping up and down.

So here is an OP, no real specific issues, just a statement about staying focused on supporting Dems. Something that you might think most people on a site called DU, would say "yes", or "yes, but I wish ... " or "yes, but I want ... " ... so on.

But that's not what I see.

What I see is a fairly loud group who apparently wants skinner to rename the site to something other than Democratic Underground.

That's back when the OP would actually show "<0" when a message had less than zero recommendations, and it did. So I do know that people probably unrecommend my posts just because they're written by me. To be fair, I posted the leukemia post just to see if that would happen, and I revel in my status of having many "underwater" posts, but there also was a K&R thread I posted about Obama that made it to the front page a few weeks ago.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B. There is a name for that.

I'll take a douchebag over a turd sandwich any ol' day.

:hi:

Dem in Michigan here working to recall the fascist Snyder and stop his fascist laws from being fully enacted. I'm working with other Dems who are teachers, police, firefighters, and all sorts of people. We're out there getting signatures and informing people of what our fascist GOP leadership is doing.

I can't imgagine doing otherwise.

Julie

This should be a huge clue... just sayin'.

behind a name?

To be clear, I neither recced nor unrecced - I don't believe in unrec, and I don't rec bullshit.

But I will say, very clearly, that I will NEVER vote for anyone who advocates dismantling SS. I don't care at what level, nor what party he is from. I will net vote for anyone who believes the US can torture as a matter of policy. I don't care if he's R or D - torture is a crime and an affront to humanity and those who engage in it need to be prosecuted. Assassination is not an acceptable method of dealing with those who hate us - it is a violation of international law, no matter who is in the White House.

If the Democratic Party should happen to remember what we stand for, I will be happy to stand with the Democratic Party.

I wasn't around yet, but I read the text from the thread, and admired it. Basically the message was, there are some people here who are not our friends, and they were gotten rid of! Yes, there were people complaining, but I think that if they made DU temporarily smaller, we might see more dedicated partisans sticking around, and they could number even more than the third-party advocates. If you plug random numbers into the user number portion of the profile URL, you'll see that there are a lot of people who post less than a hundred posts, and leave. I wonder if these are partisans who became discouraged at the infighting.

You do want rid of the progressives and left it seems. I'm sorry we don't all toe the party line.

I see the trick, so you can stop trying it. I was against Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman as well. It doesn't much have to do with "left" or "progressives".

and Liberals?? Yep, that's exactly the case. Finally the party has moved so far to the right they cannot even tolerate a few Progressives anymore.


That's exactly what is causing the problem, thanks for putting it in words. Most times there is an effort to pretend otherwise.

Now, what would you do regarding a Party that does not want you, that thinks your ideas are retarded, that kicks out all the candidates you support and backs rightwingers with a 'D' after their names??

And why do YOU care so much what other DUers decide to do?

Have you been appointed as some kind of super moderator?

If it was culled down so that only "dedicated partisans" remained? What would be the point? Are you talking about about people so "dedicated" that they would vote for any Democrat even if they, for example, participated in the dismantling of Medicare and Social Security?

What sort of clue are you looking for? The OP seems like flamebait more than anything. I'd unrec it just for that.

Me, Me, Me !! I am a loyal Democrat! I will think whatever the party wants me to think because they are wayyyyyy smarter then I am and they know what is in my best interest far more then I do.

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

:rofl:

Oh, and I'm sticking with the Dems.

:eyes:

as long as there is a Republican in a race, I'm voting Democrat.

They are the source of the problems within the party and so are their stooges who troll the internet.

I just found out the DLC has been funded by the Koch brothers. Imagine that. Sure explains a hell of a lot.

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

who were slaughtered today, thanks to US?

100%! Imagine what this country could be like if every registered Democrat did the same!!

:patriot:

Happy Friday, LZ!!

donors can take a hike if ask for my vote. If recent events have shown us anything, its that the (D) following a representative, senator, or chief executive's name means doodley squat.