Rachel Maddow: Anthony Weiner Resignation WILL DAMAGE Democrats 'For A Generation'

:smoke: :smoke:


- " Maddow has repeatedly decried what she views as a double standard: Weiner was forced out because of his sexts and pictures, but Republicans like David Vitter and John Ensign managed to stay in office even though they broke the law.



"Democrats have not only refused to hold Republicans accountable for the double standard, but they have joined with Republicans in piling on with the demands that Anthony Weiner had to resign even as David Vitter stays in the Senate," Maddow said. She then went on a long monologue, listing all the Republicans and Democrats who were not forced out of office even after admitting to more serious ethical violations than Weiner.



"Anthony Weiner, who was not accused of corruption, who does not appear to have done anything illegal, who does not even appear to have had sex with any of the women with any of the people with whom he had scandalous talk and picture-taking, for him a line was drawn," Maddow concluded, her voice bristling with anger. She then turned her focus on the media, saying that the story was actually "the media covering the media ending a man's career."



Maddow ended by addressing Democrats. She issued a dire warning.



"Congratulations, Democrats," she said. "In an era of unhinged, ideological, big money conservative media that is wholly and admittedly divorced from the precepts of journalism, in hounding Anthony Weiner into resigning ... you have just fed and unleashed this beast onto yourselves, probably for a generation."


watch video:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/17/rachel-maddow-anthony-wei_n_878974.html



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which is no surprise my respect for her efforts is skyhigh.

But usually.

Why no uproar about Vitter and Ensign?

It's the least his back-stabbing party can do for him.

By the way, there isn't any uproar because democrats would need a back bone to call the other side out on their bullshit. Obviously you knew that, but it's worth stressing as much as possible.

tearful apology? The resignation? Why he claimed he would apologize to his wife?

If this is nothing, why did he ever address it?

Why did he lie? Why not just tell the truth if this is a non-issue?

I'm no fool. I understand this has turned out to be an issue. What I'm syaing is that it shouldn't be. His wife is the only person that has the right to be bothered or troubled by this situation.

He did all of this because he was forced to do this. Under normal circumstances, he could have simply handled it privately. He addressed it because we care about this type of BS in this country. These are pretty obvious questions.

My mom was wrong. Rachel is wrong. She's grandstanding for ratings.

A generation?
That's just silly.
I love Rachel, but sometimes she's just silly.
Besides... Weiner will easily be elected Mayor of New York City in 2013.
So I wouldn't worry too much about that guy.

that the Dems are blind to how they are creating a Repig strategy that they have proven they will fall prey to. That being said, I agree that by 2013, New Yorkers will most likely realize that they love Weiner more than they hate him and will give him another try. (Fingers crossed!)

people? If the Dems had kept their mouths shut, or just said 'he's done nothing illegal, but we will leave it to his constituents to decide' he would have definitely been reelected.

I was right (and ridiculed on here) when I predicted on the first day that this would force Weiner to resign, and I'm right now.

Now, time to force Vitter, Ensign, nd Clarence Thomas out, as well. They all committed far more serious offenses.

...has been talking to other New Yorkers about this for a couple of weeks now.
Weiner could easily get himself elected Mayor, if he goes about it right.
He could also screw it up, it's a fine line, but he could pull it off here.
It's what he wants more than anything, and most New Yorkers aren't going to be worried about some sexts.
As long as he cuts that shit out...

will shred him in ads, time will tell.

cheers

ps Vitter, Thomas, Ensign, out now!!! keep up that refrain whilst blood is in the water

And I think Rachel is correct in her evaluation..

Don't forget, It's OK If You're A Republican..

Unless he runs for public office.

But the precedent will not be, the M$M will not allow it to be forgotten.

respond when another Democrat sex related scandal appears on their doorstep, only this time the accused is some old guard Democrat? Will they also hound him/her 24/7 relentlessly to resign as they did with Wiener? We shall see!! The Democrat's Wiener actions have placed the party as a whole on a very hypocritical slippery road. That they have!

Instead of preparing for the next pervert, perhaps we should encourage Democrats who are interested in our goals and not their narcissism.

In that case I hope it does resonate for generations!

What a nation of prudes we have. Weiner didn't do anything perverted. Or illegal (like Vitter and Ensign) Why can't people have sex lives? He should not have lied about it... but then he knew how his party would act as well as how Repugs would act.

Rachel is talking about the conservative media and its power over the Dems.

Clearly Weiner is a sad, immature, weak man. I do not think that he should have resigned because of his odd interests, I am glad that he resigned because he had made a joke of himself and a punch line of progressivism. He was of no use to the movement so I have no use for him. Had he decided to practice this rather harmless fetish as a private citizen, with other adults, who cares, but he had volunteered himself as a propgresive leader and then took US down with him when he made a public joke of himself and the lied to us to protect himself without regard to the damage he was doing.

But why do you refer to Vitter's and Ensign's having broken the law in the same context of complaining about our's being a country of prudes. Why aren't you calling for the legalization of prostitution, bribery and perjury? Why are you such a prude? Why do we have standards of any kind?

If you think that I promote high standards so that I can make a good imprerssion on the right wing media, you are mistaken. I believe that high standards should differentiate us from the right. Standards that include interest in fair treatment in the work place, stewardship of the environment, protection of civil rights and responsibility towards those who have fallen behind and need a hand, and yes, even the right of adults to practice whatever sexuality they feel is natural for them.

If we live up to high standards in regards to personal integrity as well as public policy, we will never have to lie. More importantly, the strategy I am suggesting means never having to stand at a microphone and having to make a public apology to the likes of Brietbart, giving them ammunition, humiliating ourselves to the right wing media!!! Making them right and us wrong. The last humiliation in this sad episode.

...nice to know democrats have to live up to the religious rights view of moral sanctity to be respected leaders. Gotta go, I hear June Cleaver calling me...

I am a democrat; hence, I don't stand on mostly the "fake" holier than thou attitude. My only concern is how a congresscritter is representing the people-is that congresscritter fighting for the plebes and going after REAL corruption.

Our corporate media, it seems have been electing our officials-they choose which scandals to continuously cover and which to mention once or not at all, so it drops. Look how they covered Little Boot's alleged insider trading and his drug use. Just let him skate on both issues. If it had been a democrat, they would have been shouting it to the rafters 24/7. All during the 2000 election, all I heard from the corporate media was that Gore was a liar, that he claimed to have invented the internet-when he didn't say that at all. And all I saw was a bunch of zombies spouting what their corporate media masters said "Gore is a liar, Gore is a liar."

Let's face it corporate media calls the shots, helps creates bogus wars and basically tells us who we can vote for. This is a farce, and if we were really smart we would be protesting the "unfair and unbalanced" corporate tools of the repug and DLC party.

is actual perversion.

this story was Bachmann, or Boehner, or Limbaugh or Beck.

Would you be on this forum saying, "I don't see anything wrong with this. This is private...blah, blah, blah..."

Consisitency.

Because of this sort of thing, we now hold a Republican seat in NY's 26th district. Weiner was elected the election after Clinton's impeachment. Even if he has a "harmless" interest in this activity, he knew it could explode and take others, including his issues with it.

And to your comment. Had he been sending this stuff to his wife, or when he was single, a girlfriend, I agree, adult play. But his activities with strangers are the equivalent of hanging out in the Truck Stop Men's Room.

It would be for their hypocrisy, not for any other reason, unless involved minors. Of course with Limpballs, his audience must have some form of disconnect, especially after his comments about druggies should be locked up and throw away the key, unless it involves Jebby's daughter or himself. And, his morality challenge after, what is it now three failed marriages and being caught with viagra coming from the Dominican Republic?

Ya know, it reminds me of cross dresser J. Edgar Hoover, who was in everyone's bedroom, had power over others, destroyed lives, even harrassing one of his own to death, and got away with it. Hypocrites, one and all.

I believe he was a freshman congressman? Anyway, the reason that a Democrat was elected instead of another Republican was in response to Ryan's budget, not because Lee advertised on Craig's List.

...it is up to us to tell people what the rules are in their marriage.

He'll be replaced soon enough with another dumbass who thinks they can get away with this stuff.

And the Democrats will join that vast crowd under the bus.

Don Sherwood in PA-10 thought he would easily be re-elected even after being caught beating his mistress. His district was a safe red. He lost by 10 points.

It's no different then the Ed Schultz incident. DUers complained that Faux News hosts could get away with the type of comments that Schultz made and yet Ed was suspended for a week. But if you look at the big picture - Faux News is both losing vieweres (ratings dropped 25-33% over the past year) but some shows can't even get decent sponsors.

Look, don't get me wrong - Weiner was one of the good ones in DC. I really think this is not the last we'll hear from him - give him a few years to rehab his image and he'll be back bigger and stronger.

But I hope other Democrats take heed that if they can't stay faithful to their spouses/partners they better go to therapy or counselling instead of doing cheap stunts like Weiner did. It takes just one dirty tweet, facebook entry, email, sext - just one into the hands of the wrong person and we'll have this mess all over again.

Weiner was a good representative of his constituents and of the progressive left. Why in hell would he want to come back. Frankly, his image doesn't need to be rehabbed. He did nothing wrong. Millions of men and women play fantasy sexual games in their heads all of the time. The difference in today's world is that you have the "social network" where you can actually talk to your fantasies and send pics, whereas in the past, you hid your playboys in the bathroom or desk drawers. Unless he actually met up with one of these women, he did nothing to bring on this diabolical punishment; except, to pick on the wrong people, Clarence Thomas being one of the major Weiner hits.

So, he should come back when even his hypocritical democratic brothers and sisters screwed him? I don't think so. Perhaps he'll try the mayor's job in NYC, for, his real judges, the people who elected him, were not given a chance to show their support or lack of support for him. We just stood by and watched the media, at the behest of their owners, and lazy, cowardly dems doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. They've been doing a lot of that lately.

We will not easily forgive this betrayal. How many true progressives do we have left? Bernie, we do love you; so, please stay away from the social media.

I believe he put the nail in the coffin. He could have ended the frenzy by calling out the hubbub of garbage that created this distraction. Instead he fed it. He stands for nothing. Unforgivable. This is a deal breaker.

He spent over a week making up stories as to whose penis it was.

I watched Jon Stewart last night, someone who has known Weiner since back during college. His opening sketch I could tell even he was pissed he defended Weiner thru all of his lies.

And once again - this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what he did. Nothing. People will post here on DU justifying that "Oh but he didn't actually cheat on his wife so it's no big deal". To be honest that's between Weiner and his wife.

It's the fact that he was stupid enough to put himself out there for something like this to happen. And the fact that he was stupid enough to go up against Andrew Breibart PLUS rally all the liberals around him to try and prove he was 'innocent'. We spent over a week defending this guy thinking Breibart was full of shit. Here's the truth - if you're being attacked by Andrew Breibart because he has some secret proof you're doing something dirty - you better be 100% sure you're innocent. Breibart knew he had the goods and was smart enough to not toss them all out there in the public at once. Then he allowed Weiner to dig his hole deeper and deeper to make the scandal grow even worse. Had Weiner fessed up soon after the story broke we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It was never about the sex - it's about the lies and how he drug his friends and supporters into his lies.

I doubt he'll run for house again but I could see him going for NYC Mayor. But the thing is this - time does heal all wounds and at age 47 I doubt Weiner is done for politics.

And because this, above all of Breitbart's other scams, got the most media attention, his other hoaxes will be forgotten, and he'll be remembered (until his eventual arrest for child porn) for bringing down a tough liberal.

Breitbart is more powerful than the President of the United States. Sherrod was fired within minutes. ACORN's funds vanished almost as quickly. Considering the numerous times the Dem leadership has caved to this fool, the absolute WORST thing a Dem could do was give this asshole some actual, proven dirt.

The same goes for Spitzer. Sure, he has a tv show and isn't walking around wearing a scarlet letter, but he would have been MUCH more effective had he remained in his previous job.

When you are facing an enemy who will MAKE SHIT UP about you, who has a media empire that guarantees the made-up shit will be in every living room, you DO NOT GIVE THEM ACTUAL SHIT!!!!

I don't judge Weiner for his actual actions, since I consider that none of my business, and I definitely do not hold the First Stone. My anger at him is because of the foolishness to take these actions knowing full well everything I aforementioned about his enemies.

In my opinion, giving Breitbart both red meat and a stage to chew it on were Weiner's undoing. Breitbart should have been continuously treated like Weiner's most grievous enemy, yet Weiner capitulated for a false promise not to show the full Monty shot.

Of course we hold Dems to a higher standard,
why wouldn't we?

In fact politics is a contact sport, one of the reasons we've been losing for thirty years is because we are playing pickup touch football and the other team is in the NFL.

And this is a game for keeps, lives are literally at stake, lots of lives.

Sex is normal, fantasy sex is normal. I'm thinking it's the moralists who need to check into rehab, but then I always did think that since it was Republicans who expressed horror at the mere mention of sex. While as we now know, they themselves were engaging in what they could not admit was actually a normal human function.

just as talk about 2012 is starting to heat up. The implicit threat is pretty clear: the media can and will hound just about anyone they want to. Better not piss 'em off. Or, to be more blunt, be sure to stay in the good books of their corporate masters. And for the "Wiener did this to himself" crowd, remember what happened to ACORN. Any politician who doesn't have a skeleton they can inflate into a crisis, hell, they'll invent it if they want that politician badly enough. How many hours of airtime have been devoted to discussing the President's birth certificate, for crying out loud?

more Weiners.

The self-inflicted damage will have been immense. I don't want a single extra R in any house.

how is that proof of anything? Why should I care what you mum once said? How are the GOP insanely brutal political machine and the Dems daft approach to campaigning even comparable. What makes you think the GOP will let people forget this incident? Etc, etc, etc.

These arguments to authority by anonymous people in an anonymous random internet forum are becoming more surreal by the minute. Rachel Maddow, unlike your mum, has a public track record. The equivalence you were trying to establish was rather silly...

And as is often the case with intense, thoughtful people when she's wrong, she's WAY wrong.

Which was my point.

I don't know who your mum is (or you for that matter), we do know who Rachel Maddow is. You gotta try to articulate your argument a little bit better than "she is wrong because my mum was wrong."

Because technically, what you mum missed was how monumentally inept the Dems were as to lose in 1980 to a jackass like Reagan given the GOP's radioactive status after Watergate. And history is repeating itself as we speak, the Dems have gone from having the GOP on the brink of irrelevancy in 08 to get a "shellacking" in less than 2 years. So you may be a bit off in how the pattern is repeating itself.

That is all.

and his penchant for "compromise" and wanting both sides to come to the table.

Had he shown he had a backbone and a stomach for a hard fight coupled with a willingness to knock some heads, the Dems still would be rising and the thugs would still be crawling around in irrelevancy. But Obama has done everything including getting economical on the astro-lube to embrace the thugs and give them the steps up out of the mire in which they deserve to crawl for 300 lifetimes.

--again. If she is right, such people will not be the traditional Democrats who were on the side of the little people.

...I don't think this will have any long-term affect at all. Weiner sinned, got caught, lied and now he's gone. Republicans would be stupid to try to capitalize on this unfortunate incident especially when they have so many of their own unfortunate incidents in their own house.

I'll see your Weiner and raise you a Vitter and an Ensign, oh and a Larry Craig just for giggles.

He's just one person with a personality disorder. Our party has a large pool of talented people who are qualified to replace him.

There was a lot of chatter about his sex-charged pecadillos back then - Long Dong Silver, pubic hair on a Coke can, etc.

Are you a psychologist or psychiatrist? Please tell us all your credentials on saying Mr. Weiner has a "personality disorder." If you have none, you are not qualified to assess Mr. Weiner's state of mind or anything else in that area.

Kindly restate your argument to show us how Mr. Weiner acted any different than any of us would under the circumstances.

As one child of four, I can surely attest that "he did it" has suffered more accusations of fault than I or any of my siblings have. And closely following "he did it" are "nobody" and "the dog/cat did it" than anyone else.

Until you are able to substantiate your allegations, I will find it rather difficult to trust your judgment in anything.

I think anyone who does has a psychological problem.

That's my personal opinion.

I agree. I follow politics obsessively, and had never heard of Weiner before this. What's he accomplished?

Sounds like he was not only creepy, but went out of his way to alienate Democrats and Republicans alike. Not the way to get anything accomplished. We can do better than him.

Clintons in the 90s with every game of telephone, rumors, & finally the sex "scandal"..........the media DIDN'T give W a glowing reception right from the beginning, mis-quoting Gore & then telling everyone their mis-quote was EXACTLY what Gore said........their treatment of Kerry was NOT a step UP from their prior treatment of Dems........no, no long term "affects" here at all:sarcasm:

What we got instead was fascists disguised as Republicans.

I was going to add your name to my list of 'suspect DUers'. Imagine my surprise to find you were already on the list.

:D

the Repukes can smell it.

And one of the DOJ investigations against him is still going.

Vitter's issue isn't really comparable since it was years ago and didn't involve anyone unwilling/unknowing like Weiner's did.

You are right about Vitter though. The two issues aren't comparable. Wiener didn't break any laws but Vitter did...not sure as to why the confessed criminal gets to keep his job and the sext-er doesn't....

There are crimes that probably shouldn't result in expulsion from Congress, and non-crimes that probably should.

Wiener's judgment was so appallingly bad in both the sending and the lies that I think he should go, though I think the calls from the leadership for him to do so were unseemly (and I can only assume they were preceded by private suggestions that he resign).

False analogy.

I mean seriously, you are comparing consensual sexting to racism and absurd disgusting acts involving diapers and prostitutes with drunk driving.

Your conservadem bias is showing more clearly than usual.

That's the big problem.

Gennette Cordova said she did not even think the photo was real.

It was nearly 9 p.m. on a Friday when Ms. Cordova, who was preparing to head out for the night with a friend, logged onto Twitter and discovered that Representative Anthony D. Weiner had sent her a suggestive photo of himself in gray boxer briefs.

“It didn’t make any sense,” Ms. Cordova, a 21-year-old college student in northwestern Washington State, said in her first extensive interview since Mr. Weiner confessed in a news conference Monday to sending her the photo. “I figured it must have been a fake.”

<snip>

Ms. Cordova, who had traded messages with Mr. Weiner, a New York Democrat, about their shared concern over his conservative critics, said she had never sent him anything provocative. Asked if she was taken aback by his decision to send the photo, she responded, “Oh gosh, yes.”

<more>

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/nyregion/weiners-pattern-turning-political-admirers-into-online-pursuits.html

I don't care what people do in their personal lives for the most part. It rise to the point of my concern when I think it impairs their ability to do their job or shows severe lacking in the judgment needed for their job. For the most part, Weiner did not violate that (although I am a bit concerned with the ladies who said he consistently shifted the texts towards sex, even when they did not reciprocate).

The bigger issue is with the lying. We all get caught in situations where it is not in our immediate best interest to be forthcoming. However, if you and are caught it raises concerns for me. Since he appears to lack the ability to immediately admit we are all human and make mistakes and appears to be more concerned with immediate perception, I have to question them as a leader.

What if Weiner did this to a few people and they blackmailed him? Would he give in to their demands or would he stand up and let them "out" him? I have lost confidence that he would not sell his ideals if he needed to in order to save his one skin.

Are we going to call on all Democratic congressmen to resign at every lie and every attempt at deception?

The fact that we now know he has put himself into blackmailable situations AND his willingness to lie about it. Neither is good by itself, but the 2 together, to me, demonstrates an inability to be a Congressional representative.

wouldn't have done. First they're caught, then they lie. In my experience this happens with small or big men, tall or short men, dead or live men. Got it? What prissy world have some of you been living in. Were you married, did you date, are you alive?

We should champion men who (by your description/admission) do not respect themselves?

Thank goodness most of us expect more, or the Democratic party would never win another election, anywhere, ever.

Both parties have this.

pay off to the woman he was in essence raping.

Otherwise he would have stayed in office until the end of his term (as he'd already said he would not seek reelection) with no one calling for him to leave.

And there was nothing illegal about what Weiner did unlike Vitter but go ahead make excuses for the John.

Ensign. Which is the entire point that seems to elude most folks.

And dominated 3 or 4 news cycles on CNN

LOL compare to non stop CNN FOX MSNBC CBS NBC and ABC. Not to mention every radio show on the air. Conservative AND Liberal. For two weeks. LOL. Gotcha.

Steve Benen over at the Washington Monthly was covering the non-coverage. One of his latest column's on the issue is here.

You can use his site's search function for all the times (on an almost weekly basis) that new revelations in the case were ignored.

so no, it's not comparable.

yeesh. Get your talking points from Rush?

was coming out.

Vitter, a big "family values" guy, would pay prostitutes to put a diaper on him, then he would shit in the diaper and who-knows-what kind of sexual acts would follow. It got VERY little press coverage. To many, that is WAY creepier than what Weiner did. It's also illegal. But the Repugs welcomed him with a standing ovation, he was re-elected, and they just held a fundraiser for him *last week*, while all the fuss about Weiner was building to a fever pitch.

Let me repeat that for the slow morans among us

WHAT VITTER DID WAS ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What weiner did was not.
it was completely legal, of questionable wisdom of course

BUT IT WAS LEGAL

double standard much?

& besides, it's against the law to be a john.

There is a double standard and our cowardice Democratic leaders are bowing to it.

single handedly brought down the Demoratic Party. Who knew?

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I guess you were just being sarcastic?

And, note, the idea is that the forced removal by the party hierarchy is what caused the damage.
Which has sure made me feel like I may be next under the bus as they reach for even more power.

Oh happy days!!

The press and Republicans now know that if they just embarrass Nancy Pelosi and her very stilted, rigid ilk in the Democratic Party, they can keep the Democratic jelly beans jumping. It's quite a show, lots of fun, and the press and the Republicans are going to increasingly delight in it.

The Democratic "leadership" just gave a bone to the dog. From now on the dog is going to do this trick over and over and over in hopes of getting another bone.

Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the conformist Democrats will be kept jumping and giving bones and end up with one distraction more petty than the next until they have no time for anything but watching for the sharks and feeding bones to the dogs.

That's what Weiner's resignation will mean for the Democratic Party. The show will go on and on and on.

Some perv who sent his dong to people on the internet is not the whole Democratic party.

..demands IS..

Join us as we scrape the Leaders tire tracks off our backs.

Who have an irrational, overblown (and mostly phony) reaction to two adults flirting, but who will ignore & excuse (Republican) politicians when they commit real crimes.

If you don't think that's a fair & accurate assessment of the situation - that why are ALL of the posts criticizing Weiner nothing but repeats of Republican talking points (like characterizing him as a "perv"?)

But, I would be one ticked parent if my recently married 46 year old congressman was sending my 21 year old daughter pictures of himself in his underwear after she had political discussions with him. That's not flirting. He was being a dirty old man. He could have kept his job, but he would've heard an earful from me. Why should we compare ourselves with Republicans, anyway? From what I can tell from the media (who apparently enjoyed sifting through this stuff), Weiner, and the girl...Wiener turned the topic via photos to his pecker. That was not consensual. She was not a happy recipient (according to her). If she admired him as a leader in the party, he probably dropped a notch in her book. No, it wasn't illegal. But, it did show poor judgement. And to be honest, I think it also implies he thinks either too much of himself or very little of women.

46 and 21 are just numbers; they are both fully adults, and any parent of a 21-year old who gets "ticked" over emails in underwear should seek counseling. In fact, I consider fathers who worry about their age 18+ daughter's interest in sex to be patriarchal, manipulative, sexist and imbalanced.

It IS flirting. And a 21-year old who pretends not to have an interest in sex or who doesn't want their parents to know that they encouraged such flirting is more likely than a 21-year old who says "Oh, the horror! A Calvin Klein ad has landed in my email!"

Oh, some are happy over the culling of another from the left flank, to keep the left wing as a whole marching in line ever rightward. If that isn't your goal as a centrist, you might want to read MANUFACTURING CONSENT or some Noam Chomsky to understand the massive success that the billionaires have had in using the media to narrow political dialog into ever tinier spaces.

What a puratanical and hypocritical country we live in. I hope Weiner lands somewhere even stronger than the US House of Representatives.

The 21 year old didn't suggest that she wasn't interested in sex...she wasn't interested in seeing Anthony Weiner in his underwear. Perhaps if it was from her boyfriend, a really cool heartthrob, or bugs bunny...but not the 46 year congressman that she was discussing her newly found interest in politics with...and her concerns about her country with...I think her perspective was spot on. She was simply more mature than the congressman. That's okay. And, if that's flirting...that's just lame. The man is in his 40s, not his teens.

I also hope Weiner lands somewhere well. In order for him stay there, he'll have to make wiser decisions about his crotch grabbing pictures. And, apparently, unlike some of us, he knows that.

Yes, he did a lot for his constituents. Yes, the country needed his voice. It is not hypocritical, in my opinion, to think it was inappropriate for him to send pictures of himself, grabbing his crotch to strangers. It's laughable that we attempt to defend his actions. He knows it was silly. He's admitted it was ridiculous. We don't have to defend his actions. Not even he, has attempted to justify them. And, if he admits it was a mistake, why should we feel compelled to disagree? I agree with Anthony Weiner. He made a mistake. And, it was a costly one. He's a young man, politically speaking. I have no doubt, he'll land well.

body. This should not be a society where a man's penis, whether clothed or not, is perverted. We are living in a much more sexually free society, and norms are changing. Women dress sexier, there is more sex on TV and there is a hell of a lot of flirting going on on all over the social internet, some of it more serious than not serious. I would guess that there are a lot more "pervs" in the democratic and republican congress than we know. WOW, look at all the stones being thrown at Weiner. You all know the saying, glass houses and all that. I used to talk on the phone to my boyfriend for hours and flirt. Sometimes it got quite heavy for those times. I believe this is more normal behavior than not, and is not as serious as everyone is making it to be. We wanted a liberal society and now don't know what to do with it. I say, "chill"!

:thumbsup:

Obama is opposed to looking backwards..

When Republican sex scandals surface the entire Republican Party goes into safe mode and STFU about it and the Democrats STFU right along with them.

When Democratic scandals surface the entire Democratic Party sides with the Republicans and attacks their own.

I have little to no faith that this will change with the next GOP sex scandal. Hell, they're in the C Street house right now having a fucking orgy that's been going on for YEARS, Vitter is probably still fucking his way through New Orleans and Washington DC brothels, Larry Craig was back in the airport bathroom the day after his "I'm not gay" speech, Mark Sanford was back on the "Appalachian Trail" the day after he got back from Argentina, and nothing is even mentioned by Democrats, Republicans, the so-called main stream news media or the Justice Department.

But let a Democrat put the tip of a single toe over the line and all hell breaks loose. For weeks. Or until the Democrat attached to said toe resigns. And Democrats applaud their own resignation while Republicans continue to do any damn thing they please.

this: :sarcasm:

Just to get you up to speed: Democrats will NEVER force a Republican to resign. They will draft a sternly worded letter and let it go. Forcing a resignation would be uncivil. It would be playing "gotcha politics". It would be any of a million buzzwords to excuse their inaction.

This was an unforced error by Weiner, compounded by a lot of unforced errors by the leadership. The leadership couldn't keep their damn mouths shut every time the story started to die down, launching it back onto the front page.

After all, we hanged Japanese and Germans for doing what W's administration did. The D's in Congress and the White House won't even bother holding a hearing. What makes you think they'd go to the mat for something as trivial as a sex scandal?

There is where the finger needs to be pointed at and she had her chance and declined.

Why do you think she fails to mention Luke Russert chasing Wiener around like a dog in heat for three weeks? Why didn't she invite her colleague Luke Russert onto her show and rip into his ass for not giving Vitter and Ensign the same treatment as he was giving Wiener? If she had done that the chasing around of Wiener everywhere he went might have stopped.

She likes here job too much to do that.

This is what pisses me off more than anything else in the world. Stupid people always assume everyone is as stupid as they are. It doesn't work at way.

Don

Before this did people really even know who he was? I live in Ohio and the only time I ever heard about him was on DU. So, no, I don't think this is going to do any damage.

That's Rachel to a tee. "Whipping up hyperbole." :eyes:

If our leaders arent willing to fight, we are toast. Rachel is telling the truth but you cant handle it.

I've been following Congressman Weiner for years. Progressives have known him for a long time.

Neither does Rachel.

Rachel speaks truth to power everyday and Weiner stood up to the republicans on healthcare and spoke out ofr single payer universal. Anyone that speaks out for healthcare for all Americans IS speaking for the working class. Period.

...better than you do?

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But, go ahead, get pissed at me for pointing this out.

the coasts because you don't like what that person said.

And I'm supposed to not be offended why?

It's not the case that people are voting against their own interests, it's the case that we aren't listening very hard to what their interests are.

So once again what was your excuse for using the Republican meme that implies that those who live on the coast aren't "real Americans"?

Hell, I'm an urban coastal liberal now so I'm clearly not calling us un-American; I'm calling a lot of us out for assuming we know better than people themselves what they should care about. I take crap all the time up here for being from Mississippi ("you don't have an accent? You mean you guys aren't congenitally cursed to talking funny? Did you wear shoes growing up?" etc.) and for having been in the military ("wasn't it hard to completely suppress all independent thought like that?" what exactly do people think goes on in the military?). If we spent less time worrying about why "the rubes" are "clearly voting against their self-interest" and listen to them to find out what they actually care about and how we can help them get that, we'd be a lot better off.

So because he's moved away he has no more insight into the people he grew up around?

Yeah that makes sense. :eyes:

Moving on, you use the right-winged meme about coastal liberals as though every one lives on the Upper West Side.

Well we don't and you assume a hell of a lot if you think the few people you talk to in whatever circle you travel in are representative of everyone on the coasts.

You don't do anyone any favor by perpetuating the stereotypes that the right-wing likes to put forth as a way to demonize liberals (as embodied by those evil coasters) Furthermore, if you weren't so busy looking down your nose at people on the coast (while making sure you set your bona fides as a transplant so you aren't overly tainted by the coast) you might figure out that we're not being listened to either and you could stand to take the advice you insist on giving. In case you haven't noticed the national figures might come to our cities to raise money from their fat cats but the rest of us who have to work for a living are not consulted, not considered, and not listened to but we have the additional burden of being used as fodder by politicians and others who are sucking up to the middle of the country by demonizing us because of our hometowns.

Not some mythical conservative bogeyman

is for it.

are also in those "fly over states" you mock and the "urban coastal liberals" have NO idea what is in our best interests.
Learn to leave us the frick alone and you would get more of our votes.

look down your nose at people like ME who live on the coast. You don't have the lock on hard working attitudes and the the working class struggle. And anyone who acts as though that's the case is as big an idiot as Sarah Palin. I don't like that shit when she says it and I don't care what party you claim to be a part of I won't take if you either.

And in case you are completely incapable of understanding what I type let me simplify it for you. You don't get to say that we on the coast aren't real Americans. You have no fucking clue what's in our interests nor do you seem at all interested in educating yourself to find out. So stick to your fly over politics and leave us the fuck alone as you've so rudely mentioned.

:rofl:

FYI :hi:

How many points is a G worth again? :rofl:

in ignorance. You too lazy to go to webster.com and look it up?

Just because you are ignorant of a word doesn't mean it's not a real one.

you still mad today?

You may not be looking for our vote, but you need it if you wish to keep the Palin's out of control.
We don't look down our nose at urban coastal liberals, we just don't like it when they try and dictate how we live.
Of course you are hard working and A PART of the working class struggle. So are we.
We don't say you aren't real Americans. That is nothing more than talking point tripe from the "you have to be liberal to be a Democrat" crowd.
We don't claim to know what is in your best interest as you do to us. Believe it or not, we do not care how you wish to live because we respect the individual right for you to choose yourself. Sure, we don't wish to finance it, but that is what politics are for.

So drop the 'woe are us poor misunderstood liberals' BS, understand and respect our differences and work with us.

own (rather useless) advice since the attitude you insist on ascribing to me is exactly the attitude that you show toward people who describe themselves as progressives. So tell me this, why is it acceptable for you to make noises about needing YOUR vote but when progressives say the same you jump on them to STFU.

I would suggest you take your own advice and refrain from insulting the rest of us because you don't like the coasts.

First, I don't want you all to "STFU." You should always fight for what you believe is in your own best interest.

Second, I "make noises" about liberals needing our votes because liberals are the ones claiming we are not Democrats and that we might as well vote Republican. How much sense does it make to tell the majority of the party to vote for the other side?

really much of a stretch to say you're a Republican despite your claims to the contrary.

Democrats vote like Democrats. Those who don't are Republicans.

Or at least that used to be the case. Now Democrats vote like Republicans but expect Progressives to support them.

by mocking those who do not share their geographical or moral predispositions. It is almost as if hypocrisy and projection are having a hilarious competition to see which one can outdo the other.

Here is the thing, those "urban coastal liberals" have left you the fuck alone, that is why they are in coastal urban centers. The perennial attention grabbing tempter tantrums have more to do with the self centered nature of a lot of you, than with that mythical subjugation of the poor "real Americans," over which those "urban coastal liberals" seem to supposedly be wasting their sleep plotting.

Federal legislation to sate the fears and desires of 'urban centers' also affects us. The problem is that not everything that is wanted or may work is NOT always wanted.
The party would be stronger if you accepted our differences instead of trying to discount us as being 'self centered.'

So you mean all that urban liberal federal legislation, written by those mythical urban liberals that make the majority of both houses and the white house?

Well that is an ironic claim, given that many people here are lamenting the loss of one of the few urban liberals in DC.

It's people like us who for the most part determine what happens on television.

OK then... I am lost.

Too, true! Too, true! We 'un fly over folk just ain't knowin' our'n beans from'n our'n biscuits, dontcha know?

Seriously, if he is so much removed from your interests than maybe this is none of your business and allow his constituents who he does represent decide what they feel is offensive and whether Weiner is an effective voice for their interests.

Coincidently, both Weiner and Maddow do ......

I speak only for myself.

So I cancel you out. ;)

No snark.

But I want to know, if not Weiner, who has been sticking up for the working soul.

Cause by god I don't see anybody!!

HTH

He will be missed ....

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For those of us who followed him and appreciated him, it's an even bigger blow to see the Democratic Party eat its own.

That is that galls me. His constituents NEVER got the chance to vote for him. The decision was made on-high by the tweed hats. They chose for us.

Look at Weiners voting record. He was a strong progressive democrat. We need MORE like him and not fewer.

Rachael Maddow is right.

on this. I took her to mean that the AW episode will turn off younger voters, who care much less about peccadilloes of all sorts including sexual ones, to voting Democratic in the future if all they are going to do is eat their own, arguably most effective, voices.

I'm saying this as a 49 yo and Rachael is, what 37?

My son is 18. He has no use for either party. He has no use for the mainstream broadcast media either. He told me he saw Olberman on an interview yesterday. He said he and his friend spent so much time cracking jokes about his outfit ("suit jacket, jeans and old gym shoes") that he didn't even hear what he had to say. I told him that Keith was probably promoting his new show on Current which starts Monday. His (my son's) grandma has a little crush on Keith. etc. Anyway, my son said watching and listening to him was a waste of time "He is the Democrats version of Bill O'Reilly" -- Seriously, that is what the thinking politically aware young person sees. They are so over the bullshit. My son, who grew up under Bush (he was in first grade on 9/11) doesn't see any difference in his life with the Democrats in charge and while he tries to be optimistic, he feels his future prospects are dismal with the 2 party system. For a while he wanted to be a politician, run for Senator-- this was during election year 2008. More recently, inspired by Wisconsin, he decided he might like to go to law school and become a labor lawyer, a Trotsky type role. Now he is thinking he might like to write comedy and work as a stand up comedian at night.....

this won't damage dems for a generation. what a silly thing to say.

The Democratic Leadership,Schultz and all the other pandering fools should hang their heads in shame. Not that it will change a damned thing or even likely change the way I vote but after this fiasco at least for my peace of mind I consider myself an Independent.

At the end of the day, and after watching, witnessing, and being party myself, I am left with this chilling thought.

We humans are so easily manipulated.

Always have been and we always will be.

He'll be forgotten by Christmas. This country has an amazingly short attention span.

The foot-soldiers have been run over by the elites driving the bus too many times.
We are tired of and done with being pissed on and told it is just raining.

The rest of the country are idiots and they will elect more republicans because the dem foot-soldiers are f'n done with this being run over again and again. Get used to it.

The "dem foot soldiers" for the most part don't even care about Weiner, and the most of those who do care will move on soon enough.

This isn't a fight anyone really cares about in the long run.

And know many others who have now become totally disgusted with the party.

We do not forget. We were sold down the river and down the river we will stay.

And the republicans will keep on winning.

But the number who give up fighting in the long run are few and far between.

Yeah why would any "real" Democrat lose any sleep over a silly "liberal" Democrat. Message received, loud and clear.


"But the number who give up fighting in the long run are few and far between."

However, the November "shellacking" was not loud enough for some of you I am afraid. Dear lord...

Even if he is a "liberal" Democrat. His district can elect another liberal Democrat that has is more mature and honest.

Got it.

Wink, wink.

I'll even make a wager with you on it.

Good luck to you and your "foot soldiers"...

liar or should I say liars? That have caused more damage to the people than this "pervert" liar.

Maybe we can make a list of all of the repug "sex scandals" and some of these fine moral individuals want to run for president. So, did Guiliani tryst with his mistress in one of the WTC buildings? Did Newt ask for a divorce while his wife was in the hospital battling cancer? And, did our UN ambassador under * attempt to force his wife into having group sex? And, how about that Clarence Thomas? I remember the confirmation hearings with Anita Hill, as a matter of fact, I got the tape. It wasn't just Clarence, there were members of congress who turned out to be quite embarrassing. Of course, with Clarence, we're now talking about actually breaking the law-imagine that, a member of one of the most prestigious positions in the land, deciding law, maybe breaking the law.

The season has begun.

just wow.

It will of you continue to beat it to death Rachel.
Weiners Weiner has become a National Obsession for
some. Cant you just change the subject back to maybe
something that actually matters? Unending Wars, No
Access to Space without the Russians, the Student
Loan Bubble ready to burst, etc, etc, etc.

Not to worry, the next Congressional sex scandal
is in the cooker, and will soon knock Weiner out
of the #1 spot.

corporate media makes it so. On every damn network, 24/7.

that never ends.

:shakes-head:

The most sober, the most well-informed, the least flappable of all the pundits. Thanks for posting.

:kick:

Posh - Chris Lee is old news and forgotten yet his resignation was just a few months ago. Not to mention that he resigned for photos that were far less explicit than Weiner's. Hopefully, the Weiner photos and resignation will be forgotten as soon.

BTW, I do think the others should have resigned or been booted out and its on THEM that they didn't. We need to hold to a higher standard.

Lee resigned not because of the 'no-shirt' picture, but because further digging revealed he'd also been looking for transsexuals and cross-dressers. A quick resignation let him bury that revelation.

Weiner, one of the few strong liberal voices, was forced out by the leadership.

So if you're budy-budy with the DLC types, you are protected. Tax evasion? Eh, it's just a little misunderstanding. A sternly-worded letter and it's no big deal.

If you're a liberal, the leadership will be screaming for your scalp as fast as someone can find dirt on you.

That was the message sent by the leadership that will damage them for a generation. Breitbart will keep digging, or more likely make up a new scandal, and the leadership will push another liberal under the bus so that they can "hold themselves to a higher standard". Driving away the Democrats base as they turn further and further right.

So...how'd that higher standard work out taking Vitter's seat? Oh...voters didn't give a damn. Maybe we should stop pretending voters care about what standard we hold ourselves to. Since they haven't since Nixon destroyed the illusion that politicians are moral.

As long as Weiner remained in Congress, Weiner was going to be the story. Yes, that sucks, but that's how the media works these days. Regardless of what you think the big political story should be right now -- batshit crazy Republican candidates, the failure of anyone from either party to deliver on jobs, undeclared wars-a-go-go, whatever -- the story was going to be Weiner for as long as Weiner was there to be the story.

Beyond that, Weiner's a tool (pun not necessarily intended but acknowledged). His utility existed solely in his ability to inveigh righteously against evil. When he lost the moral high ground -- when, though his own actions, he forever allowed himself to be cast (and dismissed) as a pervert and a buffoon -- he lost his utility.

I like the guy, or at least I like his politics. And I think he made the correct -- and, for once, mature -- decision to stop being a distraction and a hindrance to his party. I respect that.

--which we should never, ever do anything at all about, let alone fight back.

Only Republicans seem to be able to capture the media's attention when it comes to policy --- at least that is how it has been for the last few years... so much that I've stopped watching broadcast news as I don't wish to see their big ugly heads on my tv all the time.

as if they are not a part of it? It was their network's very own success-by-nepotism award-winner Baby Russert who was at the forefront of the Weiner distraction brigade.

This is just another capitulation, that gets added to the chain. The leadership has been giving in for close to 20 years, on every issue.

I mean, I personally can't make sense of the inconsistencies any other way.

Let's not forget, the guy was willing to commit political suicide, cheat on his pregnant wife, and LIE big-time to us his supporters for a momentary sexual buzz.

It's not like he didn't do anything.

Yes, he's more sinned against than sinning (Othello), but he still brought it on himself.

*****

On edit--I don't want to sound puritanical. I have no room to throw stones. But when one is a sitting Congressman, one is under more scrutiny and held to a higher standard than an ordinary schmo.

He never met or planned to meet any of the women he met on the internet; he was single for 45 of his 46 years. His lying was his downfall but was his way of trying to end story but only made it worse especially not recognizing the photo in the shorts. It was stupid because one photo was out there meaning the others were sure to follow.
This was going on for three years while he was a very effective congressman during that time. Many in his party didn't like him because he took strong stands and defended them; while many just took lobbysts money and voted for them rather than their constituents.
Most congressman money talks for constituants, but in Weiners district they had a congressman who spoke FOR constituants.

2 of them didn't show his face.

That made it possible for the Bush-Gore election to be close enough for Bush to steal it.

Had Clinton resigned, Gore would have been the recipient of a huge outpouring of sympathy against the nasty CONs and would have sailed on for two and one half terms.

We wouldn't be in Iraq. We wouldn't have doubled the national debt. We quite likely would have avoided 9-11.

What was really galling was seeing Clinton shaking hands and smiling with the Chimp after W. robbed America of democracy. But Clinton made sure HE himself was okay, the country be damned . . .

This week it's Clinton's refusal to resign "that made it possible for the Bush-Gore election to be close enough for Bush to steal it", last week it was Ralph Nader's candidacy. Come on, conservatives, you can do better than that!

When rewriting history is the conservative pastime?

to the effect of Bush's "win."

The same people apologizing for sexual indiscretions when Democrats do it would be calling for heads to roll if it were a Republican instead.

The hypocrisy around here is so thick sometimes, you'd need a steak knife to cut through it.

Clinton should have resigned, passing the torch to Gore who would have easily won re-election in 2000 if Clinton's baggage wasn't still fresh on everyone's minds.

Instead we got 8 years of Chimp, and trillions more debt from the tax cuts and wars.

so long as it is between two consenting adults and it does not involved unbalanced power (ie, interns, employees, family members other than spouse). If a political figure wishes to have a relationship with a staffer/intern, that staffer/intern should get a job working for someone else. Also, if the other person involved was accessed through criminal human trafficking against her/his will, I think that would be grounds for prosecution. If their relationship is with another married individual, I think that is a situation in which the other person has assumed risk. For example, in the Ensign matter, it was clearly an unbalanced power relationship and the woman should have either left her husband if she wished to continue the affair or both should have quit his employment/association. Vitter-- he visited a prostitute. I don't know if the prostitute is performing sex work by choice or not. Say she is, then I really don't care--they are consenting adults. If what is reported is true regarding his fetish, she earned every penny but that is my opinion, not really my business. However, that said, those two men, Vitter and Ensign have no business trying to pass or vote on any gender issues including legislation on reproductive rights. They also lose their right to expound on "family values" without their personal peccadillos being made public to temper the effect of their moralizing.

since WW2 not to mention a 127 billion dollar surplus. Gore should have won easily. Granted, he didn't have Clinton's ability to connect with the voters, a lot of people found him boring and stand offish, too "intelligent", so they voted for the guy "they would like to have a beer with" Another mistake Gore made was not using Clinton during the 2000 election cycle. Clinton's approvals were soaring during the impeachment trial, people saw it for what it was. And those approvals remained high during the 2000 election cycle. However, Gore still won the popular vote and would have won the electoral vote, had it not been for the republicans stealing that election. What happened, you forgot Bush V Gore? Voters were disenfranchised, especially in Florida, the state where bush's brother just happened to be Governor and Katherine Harris just happened to be the co-chair of George W. Bush's Florida election campaign and the Secretary of State.

Try putting the blame where it belongs.. As for 9/11, Clinton left Richard Clarke as his anti-terrorism czar, it was bush, cheney and rice who chose to ignore Clarke's repeated warnings. And as for the Iraq war, democrats like Joe Biden & John Kerry went on to vote for it, as well as 3/4 of congress. Joe Biden is now the VP, despite Obama claiming anyone who voted for it used poor judgment, unlike himself. PS. We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Tell you what was really galling for me. On January 26, 2005, the Senate confirmed Condi Rice's nomination by a vote of 85-13. The most negative votes cast against any nomination for Secretary of State. Obama voted for her twice, once in committee and again in the congress. Barbara Boxer had gone after Rice with a vengeance trying to deny her the nomination.

Obama also treated bush with the up most respect, not to mention shaking hands with him on his inauguration day. This slob, bush, who has more blood on his hands than anyone can stand, who was responsible for ignoring all warnings about 9/11 and invading Iraq and Afghanistan and costing us thousands more dead and billions of dollars. For that, he takes responsibility.

You want to blame someone...blame the republicans, 2000 should have been a win for us, not a loss, they stole it away. Blaming Clinton who won re-election twice, the only democrat to do so since FDR, is just plain stupid.

He was only re-elected once (the max an American president can given the term limits after FDR).

For what it is worth, Truman did serve 2 terms as president (one elected as vice-president) and his second as a re-elected president.

I agree that blaming Clinton is silly. Gore in 2000 ran an awful campaign, he elected a conservative for his vice-presidential ticket. And the republicans were out for blood and did not have to deal with a 3rd party spoiler like Perot (many people forget his role during the 92 and 96 campaigns).

sorry

didn't he.

We haven't expected our politicians to be moral since Nixon destroyed that illusion.

The public knew Clinton got a BJ.

The public didn't give a damn, and still love Clinton.

Gore listened the DC bubble's false belief that Clinton was damaged goods, and ran away from him. That resulted in the close election the R's could steal.

--Ike and Kay or Jack and Marilyn either.

not real sex. IMO, no matter how much re-defining the legal establishment has tried to do.

hung him just as much.

The Bush Disaster can be laid squarely at the feet of Bill Clinton.

Eets a joke.

the party is to weak to exist.


rachell is way off the mark on this one

She is wisdom among fools. I always rec Rachel but for this bit of journalistic history I stand in honor.

Rachel is spot-on target with her criticism of Democrats' weak position on Anthony Weiner. Dems have become increasingly weak and woozy in the face of nightmarish Republican scheming.

She's been politically deaf on this since the get go. These sex/non-sex scandals are all subject to what's going on at the time and what's looming on the political horizon.

The D leadership knew that with Weiner around, they wouldn't stand a chance of taking back the House. Now, they do, because they can get back on message. The Weiner story will be a faint memory by summer's end.

Had Weiner handled the situation he created differently, he could have survived, albeit as a wounded duck. He lied and lied aggressively, and that's what did him in. Not the sex/non-sex. Not the "betraying" his wife. Not the narcissist insistence on taking semi-nude pictures of himself and sending them to everyone in his address book. It was the lying. He lied to leadership. He lied to everyone. And, he tried to blame it on others.

I would be for cutting loose such a self-absorbed jerk were we not concerned about regaining the House. His effectiveness in the House was over. It didn't matter what his constituents thought about him being effective. He was not going to be effective stripped of his committee assignments and doing not much more than casting general votes and picking up a paycheck.

Rachel needs to get off the IOKIYAR crapola that's opening her show these days. She's whining, and it's not pretty to watch. Had the Weiner story broke last December, it wouldn't have been as big a deal. But the election is looming, so it is a big deal. Rachel doesn't seem to get that.