Collapse - It's coming.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/COLLAPSE-IT-S-COMING--AR-by-Gerald-Celente-110616-696.html

Everything is not all right. And things are going to get worse -- much worse. The economy is on the threshold of calamity. Wars are spreading like wildfires. The world is on a razor's edge.

Not so, say world leaders and mainstream media experts. Yes, there are problems, but the financiers and politicians are aware of them. Policies are already in place and measures are being taken to correct them.

Whether it's failing economies, intractable old wars or raging new wars, the word from the top always maintains that steady progress is being made and comforts the populace with assurances that the brightest minds and the sharpest generals are in charge and on the case. On all fronts, success is certain and victory is at hand. Only "patience" is required -- along with more men, more time and more money.

As far as these "leaders" and their media are concerned, the only opinions that count come from a stable of thoroughbred experts, official sources and political favorites. Only they have the credentials to speak with authority and provide trustworthy forecasts. That they are consistently, if not invariably, wrong apparently does nothing to diminish their credibility.

More at the link --

still deny to themselves that they will also be cutting their own throats -- just as they are
denying that global warming is taking place.

It's unfortunate that as they self-destruct, they'll also be taking huge numbers of innocent
people along with them.

Works great for religions and for the media, and they want you to buy into this kind of BS! If people sit back and give up, the right wing wins. If you allow yourself to be influenced by "DOOM AND GLOOM", sit home and don't vote, republicans win. Just look at what happened in 2010! The doom and gloom trolls were all over the place, even here at DU, and they still are, spreading their BS about how bad Obama was, there is no difference between democrats and republicans, and all kinds of crap! They kept on posting how we should all stay home and not vote, teach Obama a lesson. Well how did that all work out for the country? Not very damn well, especially in states where republicans took control like Wisconsin, Maine, and Florida!

Sure there are problems, serious problems, but letting crap like this article depress you and get you to give up isn't the answer. The answer is to get out and work at changing things, not sitting on ones ass and feeling sorry for ones self!

My family believes things will get worse before they get better and we are changing our lifestyle and preparing for the future. Solar, growing ones own food, changing how you behave and what you spend on. Getting rid of mortgages, debt and most utility bills, etc, etc.

I don't think for a minute that the powers that be in DC care one bit about the working class, middle class citizens. I believe they do care about campaign funds and their own pocketbooks.

Best of luck with your goals. Truly.

With any luck we will be running a small solar organic farm in VT by next fall. Cob houses, solar, water from springs, wood heat, etc. Selling the expensive city house for land in the middle of the Northern Kingdom. No more mtg payments!! That will be huge. Hopefully our only regular bills will be cell phone, satellite and taxes.

Have you considered geothermal? Or is it not that feasible in VT?

Keep us posted on your move to 'dreamland.'

That makes it pretty expensive in price. We are doing solar for electricity and hot water and wood for heat. We are also debating on building our own cob round houses which are very efficient or buying an existing small farm which would be less work but more money, less efficient. Our next trip up is I think next Sunday. We currently have 2 maybes on our list of potential sites. We are fortunate to have my fiances house in the suburbs of Boston to sell. The proceeds should allow us to have no mortgage.

'cob houses.' I know about straw-baled houses and geodesic domes.

It sounds like so much fun. Maybe the next new trend will be 'Canning Parties??????'

We did the same in 2006,
but chose the rural South for the longer growing season, low cost of living, and low Winter energy overhead (wood stove). A good Spring may be the most important piece.
So far, so good.

Thank God we listened to the Doom & Gloomers who correctly predicted the collapse of Housing Values, the Mortgage Crisis, and Wall Street!
Basically, we got our property for free because we listened.
:hi:

We are also lucky in that we are a mix of two families. 3 older adults, 3 young men and one young woman. Possibly a 4th young man if one of son's friends decides to move with us.

...or so they say.


Our Bibles are Mother Earth News,
and
Countryside & Small Stock Journal.



There are a few other DUers who have done the same.
They can be found in the Gardening Group,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=246

and Rural/Farm Forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=268

Here are some photos of our place if you're interested::
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x2601

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x2747

:applause:


Love the pics!! We're getting our first fairly successful garden going this year -- nothing compared to yours -- but it's a start.

Best wishes to you and your crew!

:hi:

True it is sad what's coming the next few decades, for the world not just US, and mostly for the poor and the environment, yes doomy gloom. But the most certain fact I have learned about humanity is when it comes to the biggest problems we will not fix them by choice. Someday we will be forced into a new way of life and that'll be for the better!

It's too bad we can't go back in time and plan for the actual future.

will not fix them by choice." Sometimes the US has been proactive, but generally, at least anymore, it's reactive such as it will be when our infrastructure really starts caving in. I always was an optimist for years and years, then I grew cynical, now I have a tendency to be a pessimist.

When one looks/thinks about what's going on in the US and globally, I think one has to have their head buried pretty deep in the sand to conclude everything is just fine.

Agree!!! "It's too bad we can't go back in time and plan for the actual future." But you know, if the same mentality existed as we've had for years now things would not change. Some of the problems we are having now were known decades ago and none did much. I think it's just sadly human nature to be reactive in general for the most part.

same here and I think a large percentage of the population in the back of their mind are expecting things to get worse. Everyone I talk to has a sense of unease. Denying it won't make it go away.

When the DOW "fell" to 9800, and unemployment ticked up to 9.7%, THAT was the signal that the end of the world was here.

Now, the DOW "fell" below 12k, and unemployment ticked up to 9.1%, so clearly, THAT is a signal of the end of the world.

And as you said, clearly, we should get in bed and pull up the covers and let the GOP take over.

Their endless DOOM and GLOOM works against any progress.

I could ask you....why do you have your head in the sand. The future is bleak...that's realistic.

Just looking at the flooding in the north and midwest....and the drought across the south, farmers and ranchers are NOT optimistic.

Ft. Calhoun nuclear plant is surrounded by flooding waters and the gov't says "No problem." It's the same GE design as Fukishima with the spent fuel rods.

Look at our damn system....starting up in MT. The reservoirs have never been so full....ever....and the snow pack just began to melt.

I grew up on a farm so I pay attention to stuff like this. TX ranchers are selling off all of their cattle. Farmland is underwater.

The gov't doesn't care about you. The gov't does what TPTB tells them to do. And with TARP and the Reinvestment Act....well, it was the biggest HEIST ever.

Greece is one of the dominoes to fall....then maybe Spain, Italy, Portugal, and now talk of Belgium.

Face it...we're living The Decline of the American Empire. China owns us and has been buying up farmland here so to feed their people.

My hope is that Workers Unite around the World....and we don't end up in some sick Crusade II.

I'm glad I'm old!

that was too weak, wrongly targeted, and did not put what money there was in the hand of those who could have used it most effectively.

people/corporations got most of the re-investment act $$$.

Maybe we should have a Census every 5 years so to employ some folks??? There are just no GOOD jobs out there. Lucky to get $10/hour and work 8 am to 6 pm.

Have you read about the 40 year-old interns??? Working for free in hopes they will finally get hired. That's Slavery.

people with more confidence (just guessing here) might not be (or have not been) experiencing directly what others have been experiencing first hand.

but then I've been around a long time and have worked on Wall Street and in a variety of businesses.

Take care.

I follow trends and don't knee jerk.

The flooding is bad, yes. Is that a result of our economic policy?

Ft Calhoun ... is there a Tsunami headed there? Did not hear that.

TX. Have those TX ranchers asked for federal help, or so they see that as socialism?

The government is who we elect. If they don't care, well, we picked them.

Greece was also going to destroy the world economy last year. Did not happen then, won't happen now.

Why do you want America to be an Empire? I don't. And China is no more scary than japan was when they bought US assests. And the reason is that they saw those assets as worth the investment.

I doubt we'll see either ... only ~40% of Americans vote ... and so a Crusade is unlikely.

Great Depression much worse.

The current flooding and droughts are setting up food shortages and/or high food prices. Given that so many Americans are on food stamps already...well you see what could happen.

Wow....I thought everyone knew that America is an empire. Our military has over 800 bases across the globe.

Japan bought America at very high prices....have been in a Recession ever since. Pebble Beach was never worth that much.

The gov't is owned by the Rich....caring nothing for the workers bees (better called 'useless eaters.')

Hey, a year from now we can see you who is correct. I don't think you'll recognize the country.

When I say Crusade, I'm talking WW3. The Crazy Xtians vs. the Muslims....what does that have to do w/ people voting? Given the revolutions going on in MENA, a power vacuum could develop and we could see Religion stepping in as it did in Iran. It's an extremely volatile situation....building into Crusade 2...a big war pulled the world out of Depression the last time. Ever read Iron Mountain?

People voting...we don't have a democracy anymore. We're some kind of Corporate Fascist state. Campaigns have devolved into a Circus for the masses.

If the Ft. Peck damn (the first in a system of 6) in MT breaks, it will set up such a massive flood that Noah would have problems. All 6 of the reservoirs are full and the snow pack has just started to melt.

Remember what the Dems say when they campaign: "Our infrastructure is failing." Nothing has been done to help it...water lines, sewage systems, dams, bridges, power plants, the grid....

It's a fragile system when you think about it.

I don't happen to agree with all this guy's analysis in the OP -- for example he entirely misses the devastating impact that growing and acute inequality is having on the economy and society -- but I'm not prepared to join the "get out and work at changing things" cult either.

I think the problems America faces are way beyond what more lawn signs and poll captains can solve. The democratic system itself has been thoroughly corrupted, the public information stream has been compromised and subverted, and the security apparatus needed for aggressive repression and social control has been installed and is fully operational.

Just a bit of mopping up to do in "reforming" the bill of rights, and things should be peachy for the people who run things.

And I'm not thinking here about the nice folks that voters get to periodically elect to go sit in the White House and discover how little they can do about the way things are done, presuming even that they want to change anything.

This is not 'gloom and doom'. This is "things ain't what we're being told".

The 'experts and leaders' described are the same as those who famously said "We had a productive meeting the Chancellor Hitler, and as a result there will be continued peace in our time".

This is explaining WHY we need to get out and work at changing things.

if their salary depends on them NOT getting it! ;-)

There's gloom and then there's looking at reality and seeing a bleak future for working people.

This is why we so desperately need term limits.. There is no room for forward-thinking people in a legislature that is only concerned with not pissing off their donors, so they can stay elected for 2 more years ..The senate is the same only in 6 year segments...but the majority v minority numbers are so close, they don't dare "rock the boat".

4 year congressional terms with only ONE re-elect and two 6 year senate terms, would keep a steady stream of new blood into the place...people with new ideas, and some enthusiasm for their ideas..and NO retirement pensions unless someone serves 20 consecutive years. That would mean that a person would have to serve 2 house & 2 senate terms to even qualify.

That one "rule" would probably keep a lot of grifters out.

especially for job creation. Their big idea is to allow the plebes suffer more, while deregulating the shite out of everything and selling us to the highest global corporation. So, if the corporations wind up owning everything in the world does that make for a different government and no countries at all? We won't have to worry about the teabaggers anymore, they won't be flying the stars and stripes, it will probably be some corporate logo.

They are proposing the opposite of what I feel, respected economists say must be done to bring this economy around. They are making the rich richer and the rest of us will suffer even more.

and the pressure will be off to some degree, because when we all "depart" a huge "demand" will go with us...and things will be in more "balance".

The Boomer generation will probably not be living as long as their parents (due to all the extra money Boomers paid into "the system" for their care & financing).

What republicans may not realize, is that Boomers were not only the largest generation, but we were mostly born to "light-skinned people", and we & our progeny have been a lot more color-blind when it comes to procreation, so right-wingers' grip on authority may slip dramatically in the future:)

Your time is now! Rise up and make your defeatism heard throughout the land!

Unrec.

right on target. Call it a sixth sense, restlessness, the vibes not right, uninformed or whatever, I feel a current in the air I don't like. Things are just not adding up, kind of written on the back of a napkin stuff. It's like walking in the city late at night, sort of lost, and then suddenly realizing you walked down the wrong street into a really bad neighborhood. I've been there, done that before.

The political system is insane and out of anyone's control, apparently even beyond the reach of whoever is residing in the White House at any point in time.

Today's evidence: The GOP in the House just voted down funds for food safety, and for food for the poorest.

It seems like there's a big curtain falling, and a huge and ugly clash coming, one that no amount of boosterism can or will stop.

safe. What the fools couldn't seem to understand was the food was safe because of the inspections. The stupid rise to high levels of power. And they always go after the poor and those without resources.

Yeah, IMO it's all on a tipping point. If the mud starts to slide I fear it's going to go quickly. I felt this way before the recession started. Read some books, some obscure economists were predicting serious problems. Then I noticed an obscure post one day about a secret meeting in congress and possibly declaring martial law because of a potential financial meltdown.

I told some people and they said I was nuts. Then a couple of days later it all started caving in. One serious problem today is Nano-Trading if it goes astray. Whatever, there are a of unstable factors in play simultaneously these days. And one ripple goes all over globally anymore and amplifies itself.

are told to resign....BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERSHIP!



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their EXCUSES!

My little clan is doing everything we can to ensure that we and our future generations can get by okay.

"Gerald Celente, trend expert, visionary, keynote speaker, is trusted worldwide as the foremost authority on forecasting, analyzing and tracking trends. Founder of The Trends Research Institute in 1980, Gerald Celente is a pioneer trend strategist. He is author of the national bestseller Trends 2000 and Trend Tracking (Warner Books) – "Far better than Megatrends," and publisher of the internationally circulated Trends Journal newsletter."

I believe he may have written this himself.

Here's another view. Check out his predictions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Celente

Guns of August!! Lord of the Flies!!

:rofl:

Sid

Make your money now, lest you miss your chance!

I'll need at least a year's supply. Do you take Visa?

Nigerian PO Box, supplies are limited, limited time offer! Everyones doing it, don't be last!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

paltry other details, and we will be transferring that money directly for your account. A very detailed email can follows. Be sure open the attachment to read many important informations.

dog's father and grandfather's name! Hey, I think we need to start a DU sign up list! LOL!

They are in almost paint sized cans. We went to a Mormon warehouse (we are Wiccan but they are open to anyone) and bought bulk things like sugar, milk, rice and beans and canned it ourselves. It was actually pretty fun to do as a group and we know it will be there if we need it. It wasn't expensive like those online freeze dried things.

for long storage. I've bought it in the past.

Not one word about religion and we watched them loading up a car from VT with food from their food pantry because the family had fallen on hard times. They really know how to take care of each other.

in the early 90s from NY.
Vermonts the place to be for whatever change is coming, also did/do the supplies.

You and your "clan" are very wise and I'm so pleased for you that you have a group of like heart/minded people all doing this adventure together.

We are now torn between the Troy, Lyndon or lake Willoughby (SP?) areas. The people are great and so progressive. We live just North of Boston now and even though we have a great area and a historic farm a few doors down it is just crowded and too expensive. We just want a large garden, a few highland cows, some angora and nigerian goats, a couple pigs (I'll name them bacon and pork chop) and some chicken and ducks.

come upon this area?
We landed in the South VT, right over the Mass. border.
It's also very progressive/artsy/music/organic/expensive considering the pay scales.
You're looking at very small towns and one of Vt's serious problems is the youth who are leaving the state rapidly, what's happening in the areas you're considering on the youth population,by youth I mean after HS/College.
Our town has a pop.of approx.12,000...good tribal number..lol
what's your timing on this move?

We found we just loved the Northern Kingdom area. We are earthy pagany types and fit well there.

I like where in NOVEMBER 2008, he predicts a financial crisis!!!!!

No wonder is a regular on Fox business and Beck's show.

took place in Argentina when it hit the wall??? How about Russia?? Look around at your fellow citizens...ahem, consumers, and tell me you fell all safe and cozy.

Check out Roubini...an economist. Or read a few articles over at ZeroHedge.com

There is much disturbing news out there. But hey, I totally get Denial. And what did Jack Nicholson say in that movie about The Truth?

That movie was fictional. So is this op-ed piece by this doom and gloomer. You have a nice day, if you can - with all the worries and all.

Roubini nor ZeroHedge.com? Hell, even the IMF said today that the US is facing a financial crisis.

OK, I get it. You're here for a reason. 'Don't Worry, Be Happy.'

Didn't the Dems campaign on fixing our INFRASTRUCTURE? Dams, bridges, the grid, water plants???

I won't respond to you in the future. Good luck.

There is only so much depressing news I can take. I'm reading a fantasy series called "Game of Thrones" which is also a current series on HBO. Anyway, the best way I can handle the steady decline is the main character's family motto "Winter is Coming".

I live in upstate/central NY -- actually it is a good area for finding farmland if that is what you are into as the prices are not high (tho the taxes are). Anyway, we get very tough winters d/t the lake effect from Lake Ontario. So it is a good motto or guiding principle to live with in these times.

I disagree that the South is very much cheaper other than the lower taxes and lower gas. At least where my brother lives, the food is much higher priced and taxed 10%. That is a hardship on the poor, nearly poor and getting poorer every month. We don't have a food tax except on alcohol and prepared food. Plus our milk is about half the price (if one drinks milk). We have a thriving farmer's market that is not a "boutique" market (some cities have farmers markets where the produce is twice the price from the supermarket). We live in the suburbs but in a small house, there is a bus stop right around the corner if needed. We have bicycles as well. I am also getting some new family members in residence-- my mom and my nephew soon. The schools here offer more resources and higher credentialed and trained staff than where my nephew was attending. (chronic lower funding for schools = crappier education). However, we rarely need to run the air conditioning in our home this time of year-- generally a week or so in August we get the "Dog Days" -over 90 and we run it then.

My plan is to keep working at the hospital as long as I can.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!!!!!

. . .when it's fits one's own preconceived notions.
GAC

its shit straight. Do you want to progress or do you simple want to burn out and die? Progress or death, that is the only two choices we have.

In our criminal society the failed economy morphed into a criminal economy of war, propaganda and fraud. It's everybody for themselves now.

the only opinions that count come from a stable of thoroughbred experts, official sources and political favorites. Only they have the credentials to speak with authority and provide trustworthy forecasts. That they are consistently, if not invariably, wrong apparently does nothing to diminish their credibility

So who has been more right over the last few tough years about the economy, markets and trade. Geithner or Kunstler? Who do doomers trust more?

Sid

:rofl:

Seriously, though, I'm more concerned about the "INFLAMED MUSLIM IMMIGRANT" in the crawl. He might have something contagious. :hide:

I can laugh some more if you'd like, though. Just let me know.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110617/NEWS01/706179913#no-danger-seen-at-reactor

and all of the flooded farmland....and the HUGE drought area across the south. Ever heard of food shortage? Or the price of a loaf of bread at $5.00?

Denial is powerful stuff....and once that head gets stuff in the arse, it's tough to get it out.

I thought you would be someone to investigate possibilities. Most people I know believe they are witnessing The Decline of the American Empire...but hey, maybe you think that's very funny.

Good luck. After all the Gov't says 'No Problem.'

Nature, perhaps aided by mankind's efforts.

See you around.

Just like all the other collapses throughout our history. If there was such a thing as a "conservatism" meter we could easily predict downturns and collapses without charts and trends etc. The real truth is conservatism and its depth in our economy could and probably will bring on another collapse;

but the answer is not more and deeper monetary conservatism, as seems to be the "wisdom" of this article, but a very heavy dose of liberalism and creativity, as in FDR.

That and only that, will save this very sick economy where all the money and resources of this once great country have been stolen, usurped or monstrously and criminally given to these conservative hoarders; thieves who go un prosecuted and who walk the land under 0's and a crooked Justice's protection ... uncaring, despotic, delusional fake princes pushing for an Oligarchic outcome, where only fascism can protect them and their ill gotten hoard from pikes and pitchforks.

Our economy will either continue to belong to a fraction of the top 1% (meaning collapse for us) or it will go to we the people and a healthy middle class will re emerge, (which will mean an overwhelming collapse for that top 1% limiting them to millions instead of trillions, depending on whether we can summon the courage to overrun the cheating in elections the crooked media, the gerrymandering, the crooked judicial and elect FDR types who will return honor and intelligence to the high courts thereby protecting the constitution from its own eminent collapse; or whether we say "Meh, cant be bothered" as we, as a people, did for Wiener, an FDR type. In which case we deserve to be treated and shorn like sheep in cages periodically culled of its sick and dying who can no longer produce.

Perhaps this eminent collapse will have to happen before folks wake up to what is happening and has happened to them, now being hidden behind the curtain and sickeningly being covered up by a criminally malignant media bullhorning propaganda all day 24/7.

This is going to be a long hot summer with the temperatures rising in direct correlation to folks just catching on to what fools they have been.

:sarcasm:

...THEIR SUCCESS.

This collapse, if and when it comes, is well-designed to preserve the structures of wealth and power that currently exist at the expense of the rest of humanity -- indeed, the whole planet. The destruction of the "middle class" and the end of social mobility is simply purification and solidification of the social order the aristocracy has always desired.

It just happens much less suddenly than the word "collapse" suggests, and we're still in the early phases. Maybe about thirty years in, which is not very long by historical standards.

It's an altogether natural cycle -- civilizations expand and contract; inhale, exhale, history "breathes."

For our cycle, we need to get over the "growth" fetish. Public policy needs to focus now on managing contraction, though it looks like it will still be a while before "they" get it.

Actually, Detroit is starting to get it.

collapse is not merely possible or probable, it is inevitable, and in the not-too-distant future.

We sold everything and got out before the collapse in 2007.

We now live In the Woods,
drink from a Spring,
produce much of our own food,
and are Living Well on a LOW "taxable income" using stuff we learned in the 60s.
Wall Street can Live or Die without our money or concern.

We are NOT "Survivalists",
and pray a collapse does NOT happen
because that would just make it harder on us too.
So far, so good.

Next Year, we will !CONSUME! even less.
Less IS More!
:hippie:

Thanks, Donna.

I mean, I can't think of a time when there wasn't someone predicting it.

On DU the world is always about to end! The US is dying out, etc.!

time will tell. Let's revisit this article and your responses to it in four years, K?

the first time that I read such a thing.

Why bother with a mere think tank when you have control of the entire party apparatus?

:shrug:

Apparently Democratic Leadership Council was insufficiently Orwellian.

however living smartly and sustainably is always a good idea. Eat locally and as low on the food chain as you can.

We are not there yet but closer each year. On the farm, gardening and canning, drying and freezing. Just put up a load of fresh peas. Geo thermal helps a bit, wish we could get solar panels now but not yet.

This thread reminds me of The Little Red Hen. Who will help me plant the wheat? Not I said the duck. Not I said the pig. etc... you all know the story.

Doom and gloom maybe, like I said I have no idea this stuff makes me crazy, so I just plan for the worst. It can't hurt because it simply helps us, the environment and our neighbors who we give extra food to if they need it. I have no confidence we will come out of this economy intact and without worry. Planning ahead.

Sell it!

I wish I were young enough to join your little clan. Do you need an elder? lol
I'm thinking some of these people with their head in the sand won't be so happy when they learn you are right.
Thanks again.

by William Strauss and Neil Howe. In it he describes four 20-year social cycles, from high to awakening to unraveling to crisis. The last crisis was the Great Depression and according to this book, we are in another crisis cycle. I recommend this book highly-not only because of this analysis but his excellent advice on how to prepare and survive in crisis periods. Yes, he concurs that cooperation. pooling of resources and honing self sufficiency skills are good to develop right now--and to teach to children.

For me, this book is helping me let go of a lot of anger and frustration and disappointment, by channeling it into helping the people around me.

I am including a link to DU to one thread on the subject, but it was actually Time for Change's mention of it that I first heard of this book (but I cannot find this thread).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2399752:)

And they ain't all fluffy and nice!