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NATO is blaming Gadaffi for their bombing of the rebels they claim

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 07:05 AM
Original message
NATO is blaming Gadaffi for their bombing of the rebels they claim
to support. I'm seriously trying to figure out whether I should laugh or cry.

from BBC
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't bother. Einstein couldn't figure it out. nt
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Fool Count Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. That is very simple really: If Qaddafi surrendered and left, NATO
Edited on Sun Jun-19-11 07:22 AM by Fool Count
wouldn't be bombing Libya - ergo all NATO's bombing mistakes are Qaddafi's fault.
A better question is why does the same logic not work for Qaddafi? If Benghazi
rebels didn't start the uprising, Qaddafi wouldn't have to fight and kill them -
ergo all victims of Qaddafi's military are on the rebels.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Egypt and Tunisia started uprisings.
Edited on Sun Jun-19-11 10:16 AM by tabatha
They were not brutalized by their leaders.
In fact, if the Libyan uprising had not happened, Gaddafi had plans to send 30,000 mercs to Tunisia to cause trouble so that the leader would not step down.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsContent/2/8/14481/World/Region/We-would-have-been-in-danger-if-not-for-the-Libyan.aspx

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. Actually Tripoli residents are saying that it is Gaddafi.
Edited on Sun Jun-19-11 10:13 AM by tabatha
Please see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1320673&mesg_id=1327068

NATO apologized for the BREGA strike.
NATO flew just one mission the night of the residential hit - as confirmed by Rixos hotel journalists - it was a quiet night for jets, and the single mission was not in that area.

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Fool Count Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Enough of your stupid lies already. NATO itself has
officially copped to that bombing. No one here takes the crap you post seriously. And never will. Stop torturing the poor electrons, they are
innocent.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. BTW, this Pakistani article gets it right
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The circular argument of the propagandists -- The Pakistan Observer has supported jihadists in Libya

all along. And there is nothing wrong with that. The Cyrenaicans have their legitimate complaints and I support their right to protest and rise up. I don't believe there grievance ever rose to the level of justification that existed in most countries with authoritarian regimes -- many of whom we have supported.

I don't support Western intervention in an African factional conflict with a massive campaign of destruction.
The way of Western intervention is usually the way of elegant, hypocritical, self-serving and ruthless dominance -- what one European thinker referred to as the way of the "Splendid Blonde Beast."

This type of support does not usually lead to reconciliation, moderation and peace. It usually lead to
more hatred, bloodshed and deaths. There is a long history of this pattern.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Please provide examples of where
NATO has conducted an air-campaign only to save civilians.

The closest that I can think of is Bosnia - which involved boots on the ground. After the NATO action, the massacres stopped.
I actually think that Wesley Clark did reasonably well here - he is well thought of by the people he helped save from massacre.
Only, it was too late. 8000 men were systematically executed and buried in a mass grave.

"rose to the level of justification that existed in most countries with authoritarian regimes" - Egypt and Tunisia were peacefully resolved, and they were authoritarian. Yemen may yet be. Morocco has taken steps in the right direction. And I think that once the Libyan issue has been resolved, Bahrain and Syria can be worked on. I hope there is no more NATO action. I hope that Libya will become a shining example that others in MENA will want to emulate. That is the VERY best way.

Actually the success of Tunisia only happened because the uprising in Libya stopped Gaddafi from sending in 30,000 mercs to Tunisia to prevent the successful overthrow of the dictator in Tunisia. Ironic, now because many of the defectors and Aisha and family escaped through Tunisia.

No-one on the continent has the record that Gaddafi has - and his intentions were to turn the blue into red with Misurata. That is on the level of Hitler and Amin.

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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. Seems nobody is happy with this war.....more finger pointers
Libyan rebels blame West as funding runs dry

Rebels say world's financial pledges yet to materialize

Rebels waging a drawn-out war to oust Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi have run out of money, their oil chief said Saturday, and he accused the West of not meeting promises to deliver urgent financial aid.

We are running out of everything. It's a complete failure. Either they (Western nations) don't understand or they don't care. Nothing has materialized yet. And I really mean nothing," rebel oil chief Ali Tarhouni said.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Libyan+rebels+blame+West+funding+runs/4971102/story.html#ixzz1Pk227MI0
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. They were promised and it was not delivered.
Edited on Sun Jun-19-11 04:08 PM by tabatha
Anyone in that situation has a right to complain.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. In law it would probably be a gratuitous promise
I.e. - they are not in a position to offer consideration.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. The West is starving and bombing most of Libya, while the Rebels demand $billions or else
Edited on Sun Jun-19-11 04:21 PM by Distant Observer


Shortages strangle Tripoli as sanctions take hold



by Diaa Hadid
Associated Press Writer

May 09, 2011 12:00 AM


The Associated Press
TRIPOLI, Libya - Cars sat abandoned in miles-long fuel lines, motorists traded angry screams with soldiers guarding gas stations, and many shops were closed Sunday on what should have been a work day.

In ever-multiplying ways, residents in the Libyan capital are feeling the sting of shortages from uprising-related disruptions of supplies.

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