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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:23 AM
Original message
The true price of gas
http://www.grist.org/list/2011-06-20-gas-should-cost-15-per-gallon

"* Every gallon of gas creates 25 pounds of greenhouse gas pollution. That’s the same weight as a cocker spaniel. Imagine adopting a cocker spaniel for every gallon of gas you burn...

* Three-fourths of the pollution from a gallon of gas comes from the burning the fuel in a car's engine. The other fourth comes from extracting, refining, and transporting it...

* There are other negative externalities to gas production, too: oil spills, water pollution, and illness from poor air quality. Dealing with this nastiness is expensive..."
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Same goes for coal......EOM
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. a gallon of gas weighs about 6 pounds
so if all of that became greenhouse gas pollution, plus another 25% from the extracting, refining and transporting of it you end up with 7.5 pounds.


How do we get 25 pounds of greenhouse gas pollution out of this? The video does not explain that number.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Maybe
It creates 25 lbs via attachment to other molecules?

Other than that I got nothing, except ideas that the writer is just polluting the story.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'm not trying to dispute it, just curious
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. weight
Right - the carbon combined with O2 (CO2) weighs about 3x the carbon.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. that makes sense, thanks
now I feel comfortable using that statistic
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I know
And looking below we see that some really smart DUers have answered our questions.

Problem is most people would look at what we both read and not even ask the questions. They'd just do as I did and call it pollution. So, while we may not be the brightest when it comes to co2, we at least are wise enough to ask questions. And now we know. Now we are smarter too, eh?
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. not a perfect video
but I appreciate the concept of external costs that many people never consider
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Gas Is Mostly Carbon and Hydrogen
When a carbon atom (roughly 84% of a pound a gasoline) burns in air, you get CO2. Carbon has a atomic mass of 12 and oxygen 16.

So, one carbon at 12 results in a carbon dioxide at a molecular mass or 44. That means we get about 22 pounds CO2 for every 6 pounds of gas.

Since gas actually weighs more like 6.2 pounds per gallon, that gets us pretty darned close to the 25#.
GAC
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. thanks
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 05:21 PM by Motown_Johnny
I hate using statistics I don't understand


now that I understand it I feel comfortable using it




(of course your numbers assume that 100% of the gas is transformed into CO2, not 84%, but we don't need to go there)
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-11 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Let's Hope The Conversion Is Pretty Close
Remember that even though a car is only about 90% efficient, the lost energy still means the gas burned and the lost energy ends up as heat. That is, after all, why our cars need a radiator, which also reduces mechanical heat losses out of the radiator.

A small portion of the carbon ends up as carbon monoxide because of less than complete combustion, but this is typically only a part of a percent. The preponderance of the gas becomes carbon dioxide and water. (The latter is where the hydrogen goes. Two hydrogens and one oxygen make H20.)


But, you're right, this assumes complete combustion.
GAC
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. You're not factoring in the price of WAR. nt
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. or tax subsidies
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. That was my immediate thought.
How much of our military budget goes to the cause of keeping the pipelines open & under American(British/Dutch) control?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. AND it's our military who buys the most fuel. nt
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-11 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. But the price of not using it is that I sweat if I walk or bike to work
Seems like a fair exchange to me.

:shrug:
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