According to Hillary Clinton.

Gallop poll reveals that the majority of Americans disapprove of your military adventure in Libya. Hillary Clinton says, "But the bottom line is, whose side are you on? Are you on Qadhafi’s side or are you on the side of the aspirations of the Libyan people and the international coalition that has been created to support them?"

Shades of the Bush Doctrine, "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

They should be happy about this.

All fucking over again...

Edit: Its your comment that is drivel.

Gallop Poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148196/Americans-Shift-Negative-View-Libya-Military-Action.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=Politics

Hillary Clinton:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/06/166752.htm

Her remarks come at the end.

There is so much hypocrisy, phony pretexts and hidden agendas in the Libya intervention that
the Obama admin has lost much credibility with its anti-war base.

The rumor that Hillary made a deal with the Saudis under which they pushed the Arab League vote that let the West deal with Libya in exchange for getting a free hand to manage unrest in Arabia gains more and more credibility with passing time.

Sadly, Defense and Intel could not justify the actions before the conflict and have balked at trying to justify time now. That leaves Obama seeking to side-step getting approval from Congress and
needlessly puts in question his commitment to constitutional government.

Hillary's action has diluted the President's support at a time he desperately needs the country to trust him.

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There has been several reports that give credence to the diplomatic communications that confirm that a deal was done. I still don't view this as a fact, but all the evidence so far point in that direction.

The US-Saudi Libyan Deal Via Hillary Clinton

http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=68800


Two diplomatic sources at the United Nations independently confirmed that Washington, via Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, gave the go-ahead for Saudi Arabia to invade Bahrain and crush the pro-democracy movement in their neighbor in exchange for a “yes” vote by the Arab League for a no-fly zone over Libya – the main rationale that led to United Nations Security Council resolution 1973.

I guess the State Department didn't secure their tissue samples, biometric data and peccadilloes in time to blackmail them into silence.

so I wouldn't have to put up with Hillary. And now she's in his Administration sounding just like George Bush..

POTUS Obama picked a Clinton-ish and neo-liberal Cabinet.

We really didn't have a choice.

I am off the Obama band-wagon (or under the bus) but still expect to vote Obama in 2012 as a least evil and no surprises.

I'd like am anti-war and social justice POTUS from the Democratic Party.

if not, and they hold strategic resources, we 'liberate' them of said resources with a stiff round of bombing and drone strikes.

And she wasn't talking to us. She was talking to a specific audience.

Of course, you left that context out.

"QUESTION: It’s a good subject for the floor. (Laughter.) We’ve entered a situation in Libya that looks increasingly quagmire-like. And it’s starting to create a political headache for the Administration with Republican leaders arguing that the actions were inappropriate in the sense that they circumvented congressional approval for them. What is the – your vision for the endgame, a medium-term plan for U.S. involvement in Libya? And what do you make of House Speaker Boehner’s remarks?

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, again, I am going to be testifying tomorrow at great length, probably longer than anyone cares to listen about all of these issues – Brad’s question, your question I’m sure will be fodder for the testimony. But I have to take issue with your underlying premise. I think that there is very clear progress being made in the organization and the operational ability of the opposition, the Transitional National Council, the military efforts on the ground. I don’t think there’s any doubt in anyone’s mind that Qadhafi and the people around him have their backs against the wall. The kind of support that we saw forthcoming for the Libyan opposition at the recent Libyan Contact Group meeting in Abu Dhabi was very heartening. Money is flowing, other support is available.

So I know we live in a hyper-information-centric world right now, and March seems like it’s a decade ago, but by my calendar, it’s only months. And in those months, we have seen an international coalition come together unprecedented between not only NATO, but Arab nations, the Arab League, and the United Nations. This is something that I don’t think anyone could have predicted, but it is a very strong signal as to what the world expects to have happen, and I say with all respect that the Congress is certainly free to raise any questions or objections, and I’m sure I will hear that tomorrow when I testify.

But the bottom line is, whose side are you on? Are you on Qadhafi’s side or are you on the side of the aspirations of the Libyan people and the international coalition that has been created to support them? For the Obama Administration, the answer to that question is very easy.

QUESTION: Thank you.

MODERATOR: Thank you very much, Foreign Ministers and Secretary of State. I just want to tell you that the idea of the Caribbean IDEA marketplace will continue. We have the three principals with us so that the media can ask them questions with respect to it, and thank you very much."

which is precisely my point.

Maybe, you need a few refresher courses in that undergrad degree.

talking to the American people-at-large.

It's ludicrous to claim that she was admonishing the American people that they had to be either for or against anything.

Your quote-mining was very misleading.

American people? If she was, would they even know it?

Jesus, I give up.

SDuderstadt, it often seems you don't get very obvious contexts and directly related references. Testimony before Congressional committees is in fact meant to answer questions which we, the American people, would ask if we could.

I suppose you're not familiar with the current 'mission creep' in Libya, in which one of NATO's American 'chiefs' finally told the truth that NATO is out to murder Gaddhafi?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/24/nato-forces-kill-gaddafi-libya-samuel-locklear-_n_884143.html

it was. It gives a false impression which the OP bolstered with quote-mining, then stripping all context from it.

if you don't go along with war.

In Myanmar (formerly Burma), a repressive military regime has been accused of repeated massacres of opposition groups, mass force labor of hundreds of thousands and ethic cleansing which has resulted on over 2 million refugees.

In 1990, the Party of the opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, won 80% of contested seats, after 30 years of Military rule, but the election results were annulled by Military regime which refused to step down.

The repression has continued, Suu Kyi was jailed and has spent 14 years either in jail or under house arrest.

Peacefully protesting monks have been arrested, tortured, killed.

But, the West prefers to intervene in places like Libya. Wonder why.

Now Suu Kyi is pleading to the West to at least continue an effort to investigate the atrocities of the ruling junta.

Unfortunately, Myramar probably has too many people, and too little oil.

GOD HELP HER!

Dept and treated him like visiting royalty! Don't think I would have agreed to do that frankly, especially if he was wearing a suit like that:



Just a short time ago, we were bff with the Qaddafis. And when we criticized the Bush administration for 'embracing Qaddafi' we were told to stfu.

You can't win with the way our government keeps changing its allegiances.

All I know is I haven't changed my mind which is, we should mind our OWN business and most of all, stop befriending the world's worst dictators. And stop telling us they are great guys and calling us names when we disagree, then flip-flopping and before we can figure out what position we are supposed to take before it changes again, bash 'liberals' for, what exactly? Seems to be a hobby for the Dem Leadership, bashing Liberals that is. At least some things don't change.

I knew when Bush, Obama, Hillary, Condi et al kissed up to Qaddafi it was about the oil and 'terror' in this one instance didn't matter. And I know it is about the oil now.

So all I have to say to Hillary is, who do you all think you are kidding?

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with what is right, with principles.

As it turns out though, most people do seem to agree with me. Which is fine, and it would be fine if they didn't, so long as I know I am right.

I am an expert on the destruction caused by US foreign policies around the world. But then so are billions of other residents of this planet.

What this country needs is someone like Kucinich for SOS and a few hundred of him in Congress. The stupidity of a foreign policy that slaughters over one million human beings and then wornders why they have enemies, is simply beyond belief.

LOL!

Commissioned your own opinion poll, didya?

Need contact numbers for credible pollsters? Have the thousands of dollars required?

Where the heck you're coming from Duderstadt, only the MIC knows.

Since you're demanding presumably academic or professional expertise in an area before speaking on it, why don't you let us know your own qualifications. For example, what makes you an expert in foreign affairs?

Comparative Political Systems, updated by ongoing seminars, dude.

Her husband got his undergrad in psychology. His profession, for 15 years was as an options trader. Now he's getting his phd in micro-economics. In fact, I know very few people who continued their professional career with the degree from their undergrad days.

so, what?

seminars.

my new favorite line

--the Hatfields against the McCoys.

I trolled on a couple of right wing message boards and asked them why they didn't support the troops. I got a laugh out of it.

If it weren't for that Jezebel, we'd be living in a peaceful paradise.

Hillary and her team, wily or not, did manipulated a whole array of activities that lead to the phony UN vote, in opposition to the majority position at the NSC.

This has been well documented.
----

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/03/20/libya-airstrikes-hillary-clinton-and-the-women-who-called-for-war.html

Libya Airstrikes: The Women Who Called for War

The Libyan airstrikes mark the first time in U.S. history that a female-dominated diplomatic team has urged military action.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton joined with U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice and the influential Office of Multilateral and Human Rights Director Samantha Power to argue for airstrikes against Libya. Their advice triggered an abrupt shift in U.S. policy, overturning more cautious administrations' counselors

Who do we see in this youtube clip? Why it is Hillary at the Council on Foreign Relations celebrating the opening of their Washington DC branch (versus the NYC branch, which she references in the video as "The Mothership").

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba9wxl1Dmas

And who do we see in this youtube clip getting a big laugh from the audience at how he hid the fact that he was director of the Council on Foreign Relations when he was a Senator? Why it is our old friend Dick Cheney, taking a question from CFR founder, David Rockefeller (bankster-criminal extraordinaire).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CheeOqOi1ZY

And what do we find in this CFR document on their own website? Why it is Obama-appointee National Security Advisor, Mr. James Jones, saying that he gets his "marching orders" daily from war-criminal Henry Kissinger (over a million murdered).

http://www.cfr.org/publication/18515/remarks_by_national_security_adviser_jones_at_45th_munich_conference_on_security_policy.html

Same bosses? You had better believe it - they don't even have to hide meeting together or where their orders come from - this is an Open Conspiracy - not a "theory."

Every president since JFK has done as they were told - and it is evident by the heaps of bodies piled up in their respective wakes. To quote George Carlin, "They don't care about you - at all - at all - at all!" They will mow us down by the millions if we get in their way and yawn. Lesser of evils? Nope - same evils.

Military strikes are done at the discretion of the President with the (implicit in this case) consent of congress. Hillary didn't force Obama's hand. If she had, she would've been asked to resign by now.

It is really pathetic. Both that our political leadership thinks we are stupid enough to fall for that non-sense and that there are people stupid enough to fall for that non-sense.

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A quote made famous by former Chinese President Jiang ZeMin referring to HK reporters.

Appropriate here, I think

so they have no room to talk.


Suharto,
Pinochet
Mobutu Sese Seko
Noriega
Saddam Hussein
Somoza
Osama bin Laden

...just to name some.

History shows the government has shitty judgment about foreign policy and their definition of what a democratic government is.

With best possible systems of justice with various time tested methods of protections of rights and due process, to accommodate for the imperfect systems that decide on factors.


To know what side of the Lybia thing, or even Clinton, or Bush, or anybody else, it would depend on the issue, and if I have the accurate presentation of that information.

But part of what I believe, is if I was part of a group, there would be no loyalty to that group above the ideals of better systems.

And that is really interesting, so if you are part of a group that believes in democracy and justice with compassion, and someone in that group does not, they don't get a pass for being in the group, even if the person being wronged is outside the group.

So the group is not a set of people, but a set of principles and ideas that transcend the group, although I do believe in mitigating circumstances, I also believe in equal forms of justice.

And of coarse.

I am due beer and travel money. Not sure what side I am on when talking about individuals, but there are some concepts I believe in, and know I don't always reach those ideals myself.


Mr. Mistoffelees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lk138R6ShE

All Angels - Songbird
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ea356JiyqM

HeRE or TheRE. :shrug:

Have I mentioned I am due beer and travel money?


Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW9Cu6GYqxo

Bonnie Raitt - Nick Of Time
http://www.123video.nl/playvideos.asp?MovieID=407128

Dire Straits - Walk of Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxVC0GB838


Constantine - Bring me to life (Evanescence)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8d3K_hngw