Krugman: If Obama concedes to Republican blackmail now, it’s "the end of the presidency"

Krugman: If Obama concedes to Republican blackmail now, it’s "the end of the presidency"

Think about it. There’s a significant chance that failing to raise the debt limit could provoke a renewed financial crisis — and Republicans would rather take that chance than allow a reduction in tax breaks on corporate jets.

What this says to me is that Obama cannot, must not, concede here. If he does ... he’s setting himself up for endless blackmail. A line ... should have been drawn last fall; but to concede now would effectively mean the end of the presidency.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/debt-limit-stakes/
via: http://www.americablog.com/2011/06/krugman-if-obama-concedes-to-republican.html

Sure, some sort of compromise will be reached with the radical right-wing minority that has been permitted (for some inexplicable reason) to set the agenda for the country. But the question is, what kind of "compromise" will it be? If a "compromise" involves the GOP giving up, say, oil subsidies, in exchange for Democrats conceding cuts to Social Security or Medicare (while leaving the very wealthy to continue to enjoy historically low tax rates), morally speaking, what kind of compromise is that? The question has never been one of whether the President was able to make a deal with the opposition; it has been specifically the kinds of deals he has made that have so upset many of his former (and possibly soon-to-be-former) supporters.

It's not about Obama. It's about Americans. Screw a second term, and just do what is progressive.

Oh hell, it's too late.

Will you please explain what you mean? What definition?

Obama has given in on a lot of issues. And now it is time for him to hold fast. If he doesn't do that, we will slowly slide into a dark age in which the rich own everything and the rest of us are their peasants, their slaves, their servants. We really are at a point of no return on this.

Tax breaks on jets indeed. Hedge fund managers paying on 15% in taxes. What?

but i understand if he uses the word extortion they will have his legs broken

Then we need a new pres because this one has none when it comes to confonting the rich & powerful or their paid agents - the Repugs.

Obama knows it too. That's why he's now going to the banksters for "campaign contributions." (Some of the trillions he shoveled to them from our collective wallets gets laundered back to his campaign.)

Obama's gift to America is mandatory corporate insurance. That's his "legacy", plus the bitter memory of whatever else he gives up now.

Oh, wait! . . . He compromised endlessly, and they still walked out.

From the OP link:
"If he does, he’s signaling that the GOP can extract even the most outrageous demands; he’s setting himself up for endless blackmail."

And from a commenter on that link, who reflects my opinion:

"I'm astonished that anyone thinks this hasn't already happened long ago. This is the result. Not the cause.

All along Obama apologists have been saying look, he has to compromise with Republicans, otherwise they might not negotiate with him! Yes, if Obama hadn't caved on nearly everything already, my God Republicans might now be, I don't know, walking out of negotiations.

Who among us voted for this? This is not what I voted for. Jon Stewart nailed it: from "Yes We Can!" to "Yes, we can... ...but should we?"

What a pathetic, weak performance, since day one."

Perfectly stated, thanks. :applause:

after 8 years of Bush people were ready for real change. All that potential - just wasted. :(

He only cares about the money.

When voting time comes I would just leave the top of the ticket blank. I will vote for those further down on the ticket (local Democrats) but there just won't be anything for me to vote for at the top of the ticket..

of this? I have no enthusiasm whatsoever.

had for 2008. He won't get those again this time around.

Their motto can be "Results" or "Action" instead of Hope. Or even "Relief".

but who - Alan Grayson? Kucinich won't. Bernie Sanders won't. Russ Fiengold won't as far as I know. Howard Dean won't. Maybe Nader? Ugh. It's going to be Obama vs the batshit crazy republican and they are banking on Obama - without our help - and they know it. We desperately need a 3rd option - more than people know.

*on edit - you know what would be hilarious - Anthony Weiner for President 2012. He stands for all the right things and could maybe even win by exposing our real problems vs what the media tries to get people to focus on like sex stuff, how much Obama just goes along with the Republicans, and other distractions from the real problems we are facing - and the real solutions to them. ha.

even though what he did had NOTHING to do with how he votes in congress. sad that people actually use that as a reason - instead of his STELLAR progressive voting record - to judge the guy. i saw the same shit after the Clinton Lewinski thing. people in this country need to either get over their hang-ups about sex stuff or not vote.

I don't even listen to his speeches any more and just change the channel. When he had the mandate of the American people who overwhelmingly supported health care reform, higher taxes on the wealthy, and real reform of business and banking, he caved in to his rich buddies. Now he is supporting more so-called Free Trade agreements that will out-source more jobs. I won't give him a damn dime and I won't work to get him elected. I will only vote for him as being the lesser of two evils.

I just don't want to feel the pains of being disappointed anymore.

:toast:

:evilfrown:

But there is no leader in the Senate; there are no leaders in the House; there are no Democratic governors, I've heard from, supporting unions, public employees or teachers. There may be a leader somewhere sitting on a town/city council; a county supervisor; a state elected official butwe do not know them yet. This country has been leaderless since 1998 when the rethuglican House and whorporate media decided a blow job was THE most important event in US history.

there is no perhaps for me.

Which is one more reason he should not cave here (or anywhere). He has nothing to lose by resisting.

We'll see who is really important to him - think he's already made this clear that working people who are democratic don't matter, only the rich and Repugs, but we'll see. If he cuts SS or Medicare, the Dem party will be virtually destroyed because no one will trust it, and rightfully so.

:kick:

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:rofl:

... but I have no faith left for Obama. He'll cave and it will be the nail in his one term coffin.

I have no idea what he wants.

and we do hit the debt ceiling. Obama will get much of blame regardless of who really caused it.

I'm wondering if default doesn't play into GOP hands.

Standing up and taking a chance that you can win, with a chance that you might lose. Or giving the Republicans the end of the new deal programs?

Which do you think is more assured to bring electoral defeat in 2012?

I would think it would make programs more expensive to finance therefore less viable. Do you really improve your standard of living by ruining your credit rating? How is that even possible?

Giving in to the repukes now is asking to be punched 100 times.

Fighting them is risking that single solid punch - with no guarantee they will even attempt it.

The republicans and their Fucking DLC allies are intent on crashing the economy. Whether they do it by destroying all the New Deal programs, or do it by defaulting on the debt is really immaterial to them.

But if we default, while keeping the New Deal structures intact, we can recover. If we destroy the New Deal programs once and for all, we will be Mexico in 10 years - a large country with a wealthy economy, but that wealth goes only to the oligarchs and the peons live in dire poverty.

If the republicans want to see us default, I say bring it fucking on. Default would force us to cancel the economy-killing free trade agreements, and give us a fresh start.

Would you insist the new deal be preserved at the expense of cuts to everything else as our interest costs start choking the budget?

This would basically solidify the safety net for seniors and decimate it for the poor. And yes we will need to cut the military budget. I anticipate this will exacerbate unemployment especially among young men.

and the elderly and poor starve, like they used to in to good old days.

Got it.

I would put subsistence level for all first. But providing for the elderly can't be the entire sum of government.

In fact in my experience the elderly are the only ones with money! It is the young people that aren't making it.

But I know you dont want to stand and fight. You want to give in to the extortion. I wonder why.

The Tea Party is urging them not to vote to increase the debt limit, so they win by hurting Obama and energizing their base if they simply sit on their hands and vote no on anything handed to them.

And, the Republicans will know they can control Obama by threatening him every time they want something. That's why caving in on Bush Tax cuts was so bad. It's still causing the economy pain, and the Republicans know that Obama is weak.

And, President Obama will always get the blame.

looking for the dead carcass.
Just flying low in the air licking lips and waiting
to pile on to it, whenever it appears...if it ever does!

Yet, he is going to let them pick our bones dry.

Classic over-the-top Krugman.

He's right in theory based on some unknown compromise. There will be a deal. The President shouldn't cave. Republicans are depraved.

Still, no matter what the compromise, some will call it a cave, but the likelihood that it means the end of the Presidency is slim to none.

Bernie Sanders' 50 percent solution seems reasonable.

I'm really glad I never bought into the whole hope and change thing because if I had, I would be really, really disappointed. Now I'm just resigned.

something the end of the Presidency of President Obama!

You have misunderstood. Was it just knee-jerk reaction to the author of the quote or did you just misread.

:eyes: :crazy:

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Actually, I'm sure Congress knows that Obama doesn't have to be "blackmailed"

-- he's ready to "compromise" with Repug agenda any time they ask!!


Shameful -- !!

It had nothing to do with any "backroom deals".

The Republicans financed the Tea Party movement by November of 2009, and as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And aww-aaay we go."

and it was that betrayal which kept Democrats home in 2010 --


Additionally, we need a president who would fight against T-baggers and the rightwing

not someone who is "paralyzed" by the right.

See Al Gore on that one --

I'll give you until the end of next year to find one.
Because it doesn't exist!

I'm not your ordinary, run-of-the-mill, fucking braindead, douchebag Democrat!
I'm a special person of high promiscuity, I will have you know!!
Don't you dare cast asparagus at me.
I paid extremely close attention to what was going on with the healthcare bill, so put that in your bong and smoke it, buddy boy!
And if you don't like being called 'buddy boy' I can think of much, much worse things to call you that will keep you up all night tossing and turning, wondering if there really are creatures under your bed with sharp, pointy, extremely sharp teeth!
Sharp, sharp and pointy teeth!

Here's Koch Bros DLC/Rahm Emmanuel "crowing" about how business should be "grateful" to Obama ...

Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

8/12/10

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care

preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18FE-70B2-A835FE1E7FA8D74C










WASHINGTON — Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.

Drug industry lobbyists reacted with alarm this week to a House health care overhaul measure that would allow the government to negotiate drug prices and demand additional rebates from drug manufacturers.

In response,the industry successfully demanded that the White House explicitly acknowledge for the first time that it had committed to protect drug makers from bearing further costs in the overhaul. The Obama administration had never spelled out the details of the agreement.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insur...


And ...


Behind the scenes, however, Mr. Obama and his advisers have been quite active, sometimes negotiating deals with a degree of cold-eyed political realism potentially at odds with the president’s rhetoric.
Early last month, for example, hospital officials were poised to appear at the White House to announce a deal limiting their industry’s share of the costs of the overhaul proposal when a wave of jitters swept through the group. Senator Max Baucus, the Finance Committee chairman and a party to the deal, had abruptly pulled out of the event. Was he backing away from his end of the deal?
Not to worry, Jim Messina, the deputy White House chief of staff, told the hospital lobbyists, according to White House officials and lobbyists briefed on the call. The White House was standing behind the deal, Mr. Messina told them, capping the industry’s costs at a maximum of $155 billion over 10 years in exchange for its political support.


and

Hospital industry lobbyists, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of alienating the White House, say they negotiated their $155 billion in concessions with Mr. Baucus and the administration in tandem. House staff members were present, including for at least one White House meeting, but their role was peripheral, the lobbyists said.
Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying Medicare rates — generally 80 percent of private sector rates — or controlled by the secretary of health and human services.
“We have an agreement with the White House that I’m very confident will be seen all the way through conference,” one of the industry lobbyists, Chip Kahn, director of the Federation of American Hospitals, told a Capitol Hill newsletter.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html?_r=1

to death.

with citizens united and the state of elections in this country, it is a certainty.

The Republicans in the House dont have to do anything other than vote No on anything presented to them. The debt limit can only be raised if they vote affirmatively to do it. Voting no, so that nothing gets done, gets them what they want, so Obama standing fast on whatever he wants is of no concern to the Republicans at all.

Obama and the Democrats have no cards here to play.

and they will be the reason why.

constant what have you done for me lately situation. Crisis after crisis after crisis, the enormous debacle the GOP left us with is a situation where you have a wide bunch of vital issues to deal with and a priority list where everything on the list needs to have a #1 next to it. You have to do the job. You have to confront these issues in the public and head on.

imho.

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Attacks on teachers/unions --

how much can you ignore to protect a party which was infiltrated over 20 years

now by Koch Bros. funded DLC?

Many here need their BS meters turned waaaay up --

And too many here are dedicated to fear-based thinking!!

All that's done for us is move us further to the right!

I only hope more democrats realize the party has been taken over by corporate intersts and their liars.

made the decision not to use it. his presidency was over as soon as he lost the house.

he has failed the test.

..a Standing Army in the streets that would have done his bidding.
If he had called us to Washington during Tea Bagger Summer,
MILLIONS (including myself) would have responded
and wiped the TeaBaggers off the Front Page.

A Leader would have called his army to ACTION.
"OK. We've done the easy part!
NOW, its time to get to WORK!
I will STAND WITH YOU!"

Instead, we got THIS:

(Worst Campaign Poster EVER!)
.
.
.
Well maybe the 2nd Worst.
The WORST one is where he has his back turned on us.

Hell, we're already burdened by the "Voted for GWB Twice" Democrats who have right-slanted the party beyond recognition.

and more will vote for him now that the republican party has gone to far right. in some ways obama is right of nixon. nixon would never be nominated by today`s republicans.

And the Democratic Party has not only refused to use bold tactics to move the country back to the center, they've refused to use any tactics at all, citing that its a "center right country now." As if people's political opinions and attitudes aren't shaped by media, education, the framing of debates, experience, options, etc.

Aside from a few progressives that haven't been ousted the party has been shoved to the right of center. The GOP has been moved to the edge of fascism as they oust their moderates. As they privatize everything in sight there will less governing by 'we the people' as we become a corporate state in the spirit of compromise. The far right is where we're headed.

Of course, after he caves, we will hear about his powerlessness and how he had to do it and next time it will be different if he gets reelected and has 700 Democrats in the house and 300 in the senate and the Republicans approve and there's a blizzard in Riyadh.

and he's had plenty of practice

I am afraid they're right. He has one last chance to stand up for Americans against the Repukes. I am not optimistic

a Repube, McCane and Palin were on the ballot in 08. Obama squandered his leverage when he had the majority in the House. Now he has an excuse to capitulate.

which passed over 300 bills only to die in the senate because of a filibuster on everything that was up for a vote. The senate was loaded with Dinos, how much time and compromise did they waste on trying to get Sen Snow to make up for the Dems who vote republican. Yes Obama had to fight Repugs, Dinos AND Independent Lieberman.
He can't cave here because that would end all the New Deal accomplishments and liberal causes since. He should have gone for the elimination of Bush tax cuts at worst it would have brought us back the Clinton era tax code and saved about one trillion in debt for the next ten years. That would make the debt and deficit less onerous for the current Congress. He did mention that the deficit is not for new debt, but for money already spent.

and one Senator can paralyze the entire nation. Unfortunately Republicans abuse Senatorial privilege as often as most people change their underwear. Mitch McConnell is a space alien.

He has his father's attitude, compassion, political smarts and, best of all-- balls.....
And he's MY governor !

and has pushed a tax cap? Wow, that's some progressive leadership all right! (not)

Obama had better heed Krugman's warning.

even if Obama won't. Further concessions to the GOOP is a danger to democracy and to the middle class in this country.

I think that ship has sailed.

In 1970 dollars (I read, don't have the chart) the median income today SHOULD be $79,000. Not $50,000. There is virtually no middle-class today. We've already hit the oligarchic stratification, but that fact is hidden by jiggered statistics.

:-(

was an amazing chess player and got the Republicans to come around to his ideas without them realizing it.
Well time has proven that they was all malarkey and he can't handle the Repubes. At this point we can pretty
much throw in the towel. He has given away the core democratic principles. He stands for jack unfortunately.

He's tried everything else.

At this point, even if he does begin to "do the Right Thing," it will be likely to be seen -- and understandably so -- as little more than a cynical attempt to regain the votes of some who were once a part of his base.

he's too interested in golfing with repukes to really do battle with them

However, when most people say this, they are coaxed into the "mutual agreements" that will be reached by the president and the right. Hopefully, this isn't one of those occasions.

I will be surprised if he does something bold and stands up to the repukes, and calls them out massively on their BS, but I expect more disappointment.

This was a good start at least:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/obama-republican-leaders-must-bend-on-taxes/?hp

that this was the deal Obama made to be Prez....a one termer. He's young....and afterward he can really rake in the dough on speaking tours and whatever else ex-prezes do.

Is that why he 'gives in' ALL THE TIME? It's just part of the Kabuki Theater. US gets its first Black man as Prez....history is made and then we move on to what...the first woman? The first Mormon? It's not like a Prez has much power anymore. It's the multi-national corporations calling the shots.

Hell, 11/2012 is over a year away....maybe by then we'll all have radiation poisoning, burned in a wild fire, drowned in a flood/broken dam, or starved due to no crops. Or been arrested and placed in one of those FEMA camps. The possibilities are endless.

Hell, maybe China will have bought us by then and we'll be learning Mandarin.

people who actually run things in this country will school their little Tea Bagger minions if those minions get too frisky and start screwing with the rich folk's economic system.

I sure hope Obama realizes this.

lots of issues, but let's wait and see (call me Charlie Brown) - it just doesn't make fiscal sense to agree with the Republicans' proposal, so there may be hope he'll stand firm on this one.

that does not mean the same thing. He may well be re-elected. But if he gives in the Repukes again, he will have absolutely zero respect left from anyone. His only remaining function will be to stamp the right-wing agenda of Boner & Cantor. Those repukes who vote for him next year will be doing so so that they can get everything they want, and have him to blame when it blows up. Can you imagine voting for a man who Repukes would vote for? Seriously, if he gets Boner voters to vote for him, I want no part of it.

I'm not hopeful.