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While We Go Through The Next Hours, Days, Weeks... Keep These Charts In Mind...

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:04 PM
Original message
While We Go Through The Next Hours, Days, Weeks... Keep These Charts In Mind...
Especially when somebody tries to tell you that we have to make sacrifices from the Social Safety Net.





:shrug:




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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. This can not be kicked enough. This alone shows me that
neither the republicans or Obama and the Democrats are even remotely interested in cutting the deficit. It's all a big con.
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TexDevilDog Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Agreed.
Poli-tics: Many blood sucking creatures.
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SCantiGOP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. current GOP answer:
You can't believe this because the source is the Congressional Budget Office which has a "Democratic agenda." Same reason you can't believe anything out of EPA about climate change. I guess the last credible source of information was when Dick Cheney was telling us how Saddam Hussein masterminded 9/11.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Scammers and thieves
and their enablers
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WheelWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kick
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. This seems an appropriate thread for this link.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Excellent !!! - Thank You !!!
:hi:
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
58. How do pronounce that main $$ amount?
I have no idea. According to my calculations it is one million, trillion, is that correct?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Recommended.
Thank you.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Republicans (and some Democrats) should be given an ultimatum...

eiher drastically cut defense spending or raise taxes on the wealthy, or balance it by doing both.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bookmarked and highly recommended.
Thank you!

:kick:
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. About freakin' time
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R nt
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. get rid of the bu$h* tax cuts....N O W
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. I see Obama spending priorities - they're everywhere- they just don't know it.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm tempted to put these on the door of my very republican office.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for the important reminder. nt
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. K & R . . .
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. I have used those charts a brazillion times...
I get two answers from the unwashed...

"stop blaming Bush" and <....crickets...>

Those people do NOT believe in charts, figures, numbers, proof, facts, or any other of the devices we use to try to reason with them.
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. I would love to see Obama give a TV speech and use that first chart
Some viewers would stick their fingers in their ears and say "La la la la I can't hear you," but he could reach an awful lot of people who are sincerely looking for answers to our economic problems.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Bush-era tax cuts are now BHO's tax cuts, just as the Bush-era wars are now
BHO's wars. :patriot:
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
52. Just about to post the same thing.
Ending the wars and Bush tax cuts would have prevented this current discussion on deficit and debt.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kick !!!
:kick:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. At times like this, it would be good if we had a Chart Boy.
Edited on Sun Jul-10-11 06:13 PM by Major Hogwash
You know, like a water boy, except for charts.

There's more charts we need.
Like the national debt chart for the last dozen years, with the Y axis labeled by dollars and the X axis labeled by years.
So, we can see just how fast Bush and the GOP ran the national debt clear up into the sky.
Rachel showed that chart on her show once, and my eyes just about bugged right out of my head.
I had no idea that the difference between 2001 and 2010 was about $8.5 Trillion dollars!!

But, she only showed it on her program once, like it would kill us to see it again.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. This One ???


:shrug:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Or This One ???


:shrug:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Jumping Jesus!! That one's even better than the one Rachel used on her program!!
Holy Smokes!! Look at that thing!!

Reagan!!!!!
GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!

Bush!!!!
GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've got some. I actually was just thinking about starting one of these threads!






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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great charts
And let's not forget that the thin bar representing the recovery measures should be reduced to the extent that it decreased debt by improving the economy.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
28. Those 2 charts should become the background for every newscast in the country until people get it!
You know, Perot won many of his supporters with simple, clear graphs and charts.

What people may not bother to read about can grab eyes when displayed as simple, colorful graphics.

Truth is truth - and when the source is a government agency that everyone uses, there is little room for dispute.


"Sometimes you have to smack 'em right between the eyes with a two by four to get their attention..."

Dear Democrats,
Stop fighting talking heads with talking heads.
Put on an art show...
Show 'em the truth in pictures!
Keep it simple
and repeat
repeat
repeat.



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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. Those 2009, 2010 deficit levels are BULLSHIT. Actuals were 1.88 and 1.65, heading down.
And, it is not heading up for 2011 which ends 30 Sep. Projection based on past days versus remaining days projects under 1.4 and currently projects 1.01 due to the debt limit finagling.

The graph is TRYING to hide that Obama has been reducing the deficit year by year in order to hide that Republicans saying he has increased the deficits are lying.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

Look it up and do the subtractions yourself.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R!!
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Firebrand Gary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
31. K&R
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Denver Progressive Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
32. K & R
:kick:




:kick:
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. Strong K&R Thank you. nt
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. K&R and this chart, too:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
36. I had to rec you to make it an even number.
No, just kidding, I rec your post because it is just so true and so sad.

You rarely hear about the truth of this end-of-the-world deficit we hear the corporate media and their stooges the RepubliCON party screaming about. It's such a complete and awful deficit we have to starve American children and let our grandparents freeze to death in winter so that we can bring it down. You hear this all the time in our supposed "free" press. But the truth is only 3 things caused this deficit. And your chart clearly show what they are.

Starving American children, taking away assistance to our grandparents is NOT going to help this deficit. Nothing will change the deficit until we address those 3 things.

Thanks for the graphs.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
37. The media conspires to keep this from you.
They conspire with the corporate government and the connected wealthy.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
38. K&R
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. There is a reason Obama does not bring these out on TV every night and show them to America.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
40. Imagine what things'd look like without Bush tax cuts?
The rich wouldn't be as rich and the poor wouldn't be as poor and the middle class would still exist -- but that was the point.
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Jim_Shorts Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. And when pundits put up the national budget pie chart
and the chart includes Social Security - ITS A LIE - S.S. is not part of the general fund - it is not x% of the budget - it is self funded and runs a surplus

S.S. does not add one penny to the deficit

S.S. does not add one penny to the national debt

To include S.S. in the debt ceiling talks is pure bullshit
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
42. K&R.. I will be doing some copy & paste with these...
:dem:
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
43. Reagan started with a tax cut, but raised taxes 11 times.
From NPR last February: http://www.npr.org/2011/02/04/133489113/Reagan-Legacy-Clouds-Tax-Record

HORSLEY: Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, explains the 1981 tax cut blew a much bigger hole in the federal budget than expected. So over the next few years, Reagan agreed to raise taxes again and again, ultimately undoing about half the savings of the '81 cut.

Mr. DAVID STOCKMAN (Former Director, Office Management and Budget): He wasn't very happy about it. He did it reluctantly. But at the end of the day, the math was overwhelming.

FLINTOFF: That's because Reagan was never able to match his 1981 tax cuts with a comparable cut in federal spending. A modest reduction in domestic spending was dwarfed by Reagan's big buildup in the Pentagon budget. And, Stockman says, Reagan never made a serious effort to challenge middle class entitlement programs, after an early proposal to curtail Social Security benefits was shot down.

Mr. STOCKMAN: The White House and President Reagan himself retreated within three days when it became clear the enormous political resistance that would occur if you were going to cut entitlements.


Republicans need to recall the actions of their patron saint.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
44. bookmarking
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
45. Why are Obama's tax cuts for the rich called Bush era tax cuts?
?
Can someone please ignore this post and move on so you don't have to answer it?
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jorno67 Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
46. k&r
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Beavker Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
47. The GOP
Hate facts. Ram it down their throats! Or the voters...the GOP knows they are wrong, it's their moron sheep that vote for them that haven't caught on!
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
48. remember about 3/4 of the bush tax cut are under 250K.income level.
so is the suggestion of the poster to get rid of ALL of the bush era tax cuts? what would that do to the economy/consumer spending?.. just asking..


the wars are a given.. lets get out and start rebuilding america, not iraq and afganistan

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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. Tax rate during Clinton's presidency was just fine for everyone.
Economy would be in a better position.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. -^-
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Roy Rolling Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
51. Cut and copied....
I cut and copied these charts a few weeks back and hand them out to anyone who wants to discuss budgets. It tells the whole story.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
54. Excellent! ... Reccing and bookmarking
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. Please quit wasting our time with facts. Don't you understand that
America prefers to "make up" things rather than worry with facts?
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
56. I've seen the first chart a few times here,
but the second chart is brand new to me. Thanks!
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DesertDiamond Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
57. DU needs a "share" button that the poster can provide if it's okay with them.
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CleanGreenFuture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
59. Hey WillyT, thanks for the post. Are there hi-res versions of these charts available?
These need to be spread around as much as possible.

I think it would be a challenge to find right-wingers here in Texas smart enough to understand the charts. But maybe the few who can understand it will tell the ones that can't. Well...a boy can dream, can't he?
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