Some people just don't have a clue.

Went to a family BBQ today. One relative who's in his 70s, living on SS and Medicare, told me that it will be Obama's fault if the country defaults. I said Obama offered the GOP 83% of what they wanted (83% cuts/17% tax increases) and they turned it down. He said it's still Obama's fault.

I asked why it was his fault if they obviously did not want to make any kind of a deal. He said, "Obama's the President. It's up to him to get it done."

I said, "A US President is not a dictator. He can't simply do whatever he wants. It has to go through Congress first." He said, "Obama's the President. It's up to him to get it done."

I said, "Obama's been negotiating all along and he's compromised on things that the vast majority of Americans do NOT want him to compromise on (SS, Medicare, etc.). The Republicans continue to make demands without offering anything in return. How is he supposed to get around that?" He said, "I don't care. He's the President. Give them 100% of what they want if that's what it takes."

I said, "So ... you think blackmail is a good way to run a government? These GOP assholes signed Norquist's 'no tax' pledge and now the rest of us have to pay for it so corporations and wealthy people can get a free ride?" He said, "It doesn't matter. Obama's the President. It's his responsibility."

I said, "The GOP refuses to represent the best interests of the people they were elected to serve. They are willing to collapse our economy because their party refuses to even consider raising taxes on those who can afford it. THEY are the ones who are not doing the job they are paid to do ... and you think they should get everything they want? He said, "Obama needs to get it done. I don't care how. He's the President and if he can't get it done then he should resign."

I said, "How??" He said, "Cut the military budget. Make the rich people pay more. Go after the corporations and their loopholes."

I said, "I agree with you 100%. In fact, the vast majority of people in this country agree with you." He said, "So Obama should do it! He's the President and he needs to get it done."

Seriously ... how do you get through to people like this? :shrug:



It gets better ... his two daughters, one of whom is a teacher in NJ and was just screwed over by Chris Christie, both believe that Christie would make a terrific President. They would vote for him because "even though he's a bully, he gets things done!" I said, "What has he done to benefit you?" The teacher replied, "He's already screwed me over ... what more can he do to me? At least he can get this country in shape."

:wtf: :banghead:




Someone else (another senior) got involved and said the GOP "will be voted out in 2012." I told her about the Photo ID laws that were being passed in various states. She said, "Well, you need a Photo ID to do a lot of things. Why not have one to vote? We have to stop the fraud somehow!"

I explained that there is no evidence of significant fraud and a Photo ID would not stop things like double-voting ... but it could hurt voter turnout (and very possibly, swing the elections toward Republicans) because certain groups would be disproportionately affected by a law that requires them to pay for a state-issued photo ID that they can't afford. Their right to vote would depend on their ability to pay for an ID and arrange transportation to a location where the ID is issued, such as the DMV.

She said, "So it's like the old 'Jim Crow' laws."

At least somebody gets it!




edited: typo :blush:

I am so sick of the Double Standard Shit

I don't mean that personally to you or your family - I'm just sick of seeing the same bigoted message all over the net

My GOP relatives hated Clinton (even though they were all making money when he was President), but the hatred of Obama goes much deeper. They expect him to do things that no President could do. They refuse to hold the GOP accountable for anything. I don't know if it's racism (honestly, I never thought they were racists) or if it's the fact that the RW propaganda machine has been brainwashing people for so damn long that they can't even consider the possibility that Republicans aren't their saviors and Democrats aren't their enemy.

Jimmy Carter: Animosity towards Barack Obama is due to racism

Race debate ignites after Jimmy Carter claims that much of the opposition to Obama has arisen because the president is black

The former president said racism had come to the surface across the country because of a belief held by many whites that an African American is not qualified to be in the White House.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/16/jimmy-carter-racism-barack-obama

That does not mean they are of the Aryan brotherhood. They may have black friends and have no problem with black people in general.

What these people really believe is a black man does not deserve to be in positions of power, especially the leader of the free world.

especially if they have been drinking.

:hi:

With this:He said, "Cut the military budget. Make the rich people pay more. Go after the corporations and their loopholes."

I said, "I agree with you 100%. In fact, the vast majority of people in this country agree with you." He said, "So Obama should do it! He's the President and he needs to get it done."


However, my high school civics class tells me the President enforces the laws Congress makes. So Congress has to cut the military budget. etc etc. Like that'll ever happen! :)

and I am disappointed (understatement) that these are not the words coming from Obama as President.

No, he is not a dictator, nor do I want one, but damn, I expected him to be a man of strong enough character to lead the public in the right direction. To at the very least, get us on the road to fixing the real issues by at least taking strong steps in the correct direction.

And he isn't doing that at all. I can't ignore what is right in front of me, and I am hoping to god that he changes his direction. He has the bully pulpit - he needs to use it, unless he really doesn't think change is possible any longer.

The President is NOT a dictator and laws have to go through Congress before they're signed by the President. He kept saying, "I don't want to hear it. Obama has to get it done and stop blaming the Republicans!"

His attitude was that Obama was weak because he couldn't get it done when other Presidents have. I informed him other Presidents got a single-line bill sent to their desk that raised the debt ceiling. No strings attached. No questions asked. It was simply standard government procedure.

He said, "The Republicans don't want to collapse the economy." I said, "The Tea Party does ... and right now, they seem to be running the show. They want government to fail and the rest of the Republicans want Obama to fail - and we're all going to pay the price for it." I told him about the 300+ pieces of legislation that the Democrats passed when they controlled the House, but were filibustered by the Republicans. I also said that it was the Democrat's fault for not changing the filibuster rules. Again he said, "I don't want to hear it! Obama needs to stop whining and blaming everyone else. Just get things done!"

I just couldn't get through to him. :(

Obama could do more to blow away the opposition.
The last president showed it can be done.

It's why dems are labeled as soft on defense.
As dems we respect not knocking over the opposition.
But not everybody, and not every dem is that way.

Obama is more of a finesse type of president. Lets hope he wins.

but that's not what he was talking about. His attitude was that the Republicans didn't have to do a thing because it's not their problem. It's Obama's problem and it's up to him to find a way to either convince or force the GOP to do the right thing. If he can't find a way to make them do their job then it's HIS fault if the economy collapses, not theirs ... even though they are the ones who turned a simple debt ceiling raise into a knock-down, drag-out deficit fight!

In other words, no matter what happens, he believes the Republicans bear none of the responsibility.

That is how it works.

I mean maybe Rupert Murdoch didn't know what was going on, but I doubt anyone here will give him a pass.

and write that part of the conversation off.


How do you get through to them? If they're in their 70s and don't understand how government works or have been screwed over and are asking for seconds then what do you think will get through to them?

Odds are nothing will so stop wasting your time.

Honestly, he's a great guy! For some reason, he's locked into that Republican mindset and no matter how many times he gets screwed over by them it's always the fault of the Democrats - whether they're in control of the situation or not.

I really try to avoid political discussions. He mentioned his fear over the country defaulting and wondered what would happen to his SS check. I stayed silent until he said it was all Obama's fault and he was sick and tired of hearing Obama blame the Republicans. I thought it was an opportunity to educate. I should have known better, LOL!

when it comes to politics, and they have written me off as well.

However, they know I'm a political junkie and a couple of them try to bait me every time we get together. I try to educate them. I don't know why I bother ... I guess there will always be a small part of me that hopes something will get through to them at some point. They are stunned when, on occasion, I tell them that I'm not happy with something Obama did. They can't understand that I'm not blindly loyal to a politician or a party ... because that's they way most Republicans are. Their party can do no wrong. When I say I disagree with Obama or the Democrats about something, they don't know how to respond, LOL!

Man, I would have been screaming with a red face by this time. Yeah... so it's like Jim Crow.... and it's like the most poorly reasoned conversation. Good for you to make this points, but I have to seriously wonder... are these relatives hypnotized after working or doing their daily grind, getting in front of the television only to watch people dance and whatever Fox and CNN have to mouth like hand puppets?

Are they the example of what 20 good years of dumbing down the news can do to people who otherwise could think while talking?

Jesus...

I was very surprised at her initial reaction to the photo ID laws. Once I explained what the true purpose of the ID requirement was, it clicked for her. She's retired, financially stable and she drives, so the photo ID didn't seem like a big deal to her ... until she realized what a hardship that would be for some people.

My uncle and aunt are die-hard Republicans and like many of them, there is a disconnect between Republican policies and their everyday lives. They just believe what they're told on the news and the radio ... even if their actual lives contradict the information they hear. I don't get it.

As for my cousin, the teacher, who still thinks Christie is terrific even though he screwed her over with his policies, all I can say is :wtf:

people in our country 10 years ago, I would have not believed you. Today, I just assume that every other person I talk to is either a snake handler or a witch burner. I swear to God, I think I live in the Matrix.

I sit there thinking, "I'm your niece. You know I love you. You know I want what's best for you. Why the hell would I lie about this? Wake up!!"

Didn't these same GOP assholes also take a pledge to up hold the Constitution?
Which is more important, the Constitution or Grover Norquist?
Are they not violating their oath of office by even signing Grover's pledge?


http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/a/oaths_of_office_4.htm
Oath of Office for Congress

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

How can they uphold the Constitution if they pledge their loyalty to something (or someone) else?


That was my point I was trying to make to my uncle. They are loyal to that pledge, but not to the people they were elected to serve. They're not doing their job, so how can you blame Obama for that? Coulddn't get through to him ... he continued to say it's Obama's fault because he's the President. Apparently, Congress has no obligation to serve their constituents! :eyes:

WOW -- Now there's a very salient point that bears repeating, and often.

as well as the previous administration have seen fit to ignore the constitution in favor of expedience. If the constitution can be completely ignored for 10 years with regards to protection of privacy rights, if torturers are allowed to go free and people are held indefinitely without charges, and if we can traipse our way into one undeclared war after another without any consideration of the constitutional implications, the fact that the debt ceiling is being strictly observed indicates that preventing a government shutdown obviously is of secondary importance to the administration.

the President will invoke the Constitution for signing an Executive Order that will allow the Fed to continue honoring the U.S. gov. obligations, and when the house of hostage takeR$ will object, the judiciary branch will have to step in and decide who's is for, and who is against the Constitution.

The Pres. cannot let a bunch of fools imperil the financial capacities of the entire country. In short, the BIG country doesn't BELONG to them.

my 2 cents.

It's time for him to start using the Constitution to his - and our - advantage!

SHOULD do (to prevent the financial meltdown that would result from causing any additional damages).

Let the judiciary branch 'study' what the Constitution says (on that particular matter).

That would perhaps take them some time to figure it out, and "delay" the stalemate enough to settle it in the meantime.

The Executive branch cannot let a small bunch of fools, elected or not, bring the world on the brink of financial armageddon without trying something (risky) to avert it.

:hi:

I'm 65 and I had a civics class in 8th grade. My kids learned how a bill becomes a law from the PBS series Electric Company. Somewhere along the line too many people fell through the cracks and never learned what the President's role is in government.

Bless your heart for trying to educate a family member.

That kind of reasoning is why some people don't mind being ruled by a dictator as long as he "gets it done".

When politicians voted for what was best for the country....not vote on narrow ideological lines. What a sad lot these modern politicians have become.

One reason that the default discussions are still going on is that Obama still hasn't taken a position. Also, the Repukes know that is they stall and name-call and lie and bluff, the prez will cave in more and more. So there is no reason for the Repukes to get busy - if they wait long enough Obama will give them everything they want.