How long until we take to the streets?

Don't expect media to cover it either.

Aren't Greece and France much more dense in their urban areas than the US? Is that part of why giant damn protests aren't as much of a thing here?

Then we should first march on the media outlets, yes?

That's the rank truth.

Let's not jump the gun.

Shouldn't we speak up before it's too late?

Or maybe move to the Mexican Riviera and get drunk on mojitos at the beach as I sorrowfully watch the US go to totally hell on TV Azteca?

Yeah, that seems like the most sensible thing to do.

Makes more sense than watching it first hand because I can't do a damn thing about it.

Post when you get there and let me know who else shows up, OK?

I didn't know you was back in town!

years.... but I think it will happen within a decade, unless something drastic happens - discovery of a wonderful new energy source or fantastic technology. The elites have lost their sense of community and most of their desire to hold societies and cultures together. They appear FAR too short-sighted and profit driven to steer this ship away from the rocks and, don't look now.... but we ain't that far away from the rocks.

When we can't predict...but soon

We have to take away their power, cut off their supplies, and stop their water supplies (to continue the castle analogy).

who are "they"?

Kinda vague, isn't it?

Does this mean we are letting the NWO off the hook?

I do.

If you prefer to believe that there are nameless, faceless people that control everything, that's your prerogative.

Not exactly nameless, not exactly faceless, but with fingers in more interconnecting pies than you can trace.

but yes, perfect answer.

do you really think they control everything?

people that control everything that happens.

No, that was ants.

We? Crap...I think that was Anonymous.

They must be the other. No...scary kid from hell.



I'm not sure. But "they" sound pretty bad. We should probably do what we can to protect the village from them...er...they.

America from recognizing what's going on with weather -- catastrophes all

around the country -- things are only going to get worse --

We need to remain non-violent --

and we need to figure out ways to uninvent the dollar bill -- !!

And they are causing it. They are like the rat that keeps running in a circle tread-milled cage. No offense to rats as I love rat pets dearly. And rats too I guess.

:shrug:

they even waited in long lines to try to get in the courtroom .

if people wanted they could do the same for other things. if they wanted to.

i don't know what you want people to take the the streets for though.

I'm still waiting for everybody who asks when we're going to take it to the streets to join me.

And I stopped talking bout that here since it don't matter. Even posted photos of actions on my blog.

It's my frustration mostly.

People need to be willing to risk arrest and actually do something to shut the system down, not just march from point A to point B.

shut WHAT system down?

call it what you want. Blockade the financial district. Blockade Faux news headquarters. Sit in at BP corporate offices. Anything and everything that makes life difficult for them. Don't let them rest.

We need inspiration.

even better. Especially of the "seat inns".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV1mHXqmi-o

I'm the guy in light blue jeans and black shirt that jumps out of a cop's way after my fellow protester threw his tear gas canister back at him at time frame 1:58.

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1SzihxCRY

I helped blockade San Francisco's civic center after the State Supreme Court upheld prop 8 two years ago. I'm not in this video but I was there and was arrested. I posted about it on DU the day it happened.

I also was arrested blockading the financial district of SF during the Day X protests when the Iraq War broke out. No youtube video of it but there were 2200 of us that got arrested and we put such a strain the the locl governemtn that they had to plead with us to stop what we were doing because they couldn't afford to keep us all in jail and police the protests.

You have every right to assemble peacefully and petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That does not include "shutting down" the Civic Center or the Financial District.

and engaging in war crimes. I guess you think the Egyptian people had no right to do what they did by rising up against their oppressors? If the government followed its own laws then maybe I would obey them. If it doesn't, don't expect me to either.

silly strawman arguments.

Given that I didn't use a strawman.

you did.

If you believe it's okay for them to resist, then why not us? That's a perfectly legitimate question.

you put words in my mouth. That's the strawman.

As far as the Egyptians are concerned, revolting against a dictatorship is far different than revolting against a democracy.

He launched an illegal war. He ordered the use of torture. He stripped Americans of their civil rights. How is he not a dictator?

how come there was an orderly transition of power after the election of 2008?

You need to look up the definition of dictator. And, as unfair as the election of 2000 was, Bush, by no means, "stole" it.

Kicking legitamte voter off of voter rolls is called stealing an election. And even dictators sometimes step down when they realize that their day is done.

no, he didn't. And, it's silly to call him a dictator. Just plain silly.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

He didn't even have time to circle the drain.

It did appear to me that the cops were running things there, though, in that first video. It didn't appear that any thing lasting happened.

That was just the beginning. Protests like that went on for the entire week. Want to see?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORTTwN5HZpg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n33GqksdqA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCgamw46AU&feature=channel_video_title

This was all during the weekend the war broke out. And this is only a small taste of what the city looked like. Do know how big the crowd was in that first video I showed you, the one that I was in? About 500 give or take. 500. And we managed to drive One of San Francisco's busiest streets to a halt. Imagine what we could do if we had 50,000? Or 500,000? Or five million?

Everytime you protest, it draws police resources. Every times somebody gets arrested it draws even more city resources. Everytime you shut an enterprise down, even if for a few hours, that's revenue that it's not making. But the end of the Day X protests, we had so strained the local government financially that Mayor Willie Brown made a public plea to us to stop.

To anybody that says the system can't be shut down or stopped, all I have to say is, you weren't there. It would be far easier to do than you realize. All it takes is for people to stop talking, stop being afraid, and stop saying that it can't work, and go out and fucking do it. If enough people did that, you would see change in this country happen very quickly.

who feel oppressed or believe the system needs to be shut down. Most people are pretty heavily invested in the system as it is.

No, when they first started, it was a small, dedicated, and grossly outnumbered group of hard-core, dedicated folks. You just personified the problem right there. Everybody keeps WAITING.

"Oh, we don't have enough people. Oh, this is too aggressive. Oh, I have a hair appointment. Oh, I can't get arrested because one day I want to work for so and so..."

Yeah, there it is. Well, I go whether or not I'm alone or with one million others. I do it because it's the right thing to do. I'm not waiting. I choose not to wait because I know that if there's ever going to really be a revolution it's going to take people to stand up regardless, whehter or not they have enough people or not.

Not having enough people is a problem. However, waiting until we have enough to act is a sure fire way to never have enough. You lead by example.

That seems to be the goal of the republicans, by cutting the tax revenue.

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V

:hi:

The marches from point a to point b are so uselessly easily ignored that it's impossible to take them seriously... now I have to figure out how to tell those from what you and yours are up to...

Carry on!

Sid

Won't happen (well it will but it won't be covered). So wvery one has to be documented.

As to local actions seat inns don't result in arrest no more.

:shrug:

Democratic Party sure hasn't called us out to rally for MEDICARE FOR ALL --

or for SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE -- !!

It's the silence of the party which is really the response we have to pay attention to --

The RW has made sure that we don't have liberal leadership rising --

They understand the power of leaders --

be running things when you succeed with that? I do. Whoever has the most guns. No, shutting down "the system" is like "sticking it to The Man."

If you want to actually do something, go convince people to vote for the right people. That will bring change. But, you have to actually do it. You actually have to go talk to people and convince them.

However, not doing so will. When global warming truly comes, you will know what anarchy really is.

Wall Street again? Now, I've seen the NYPD shut down Wall Street once. They had barricades, too. Perhaps you could borrow theirs.

I've done it before. We shut down the financial district of SF the weekend the Iraq War broke out. It's quite easy to do. All you need is to get enough people to stop talking and start doing.

operating, so you did not actually shut it down, it seems. You may have temporarily blocked traffic on a street for a short time. Then, you went somewhere else and things resumed their normal state. So, I'd say that you shut down nothing. If I am incorrect, please explain how you shut something down.

Unfortunately we all went to jail, and everybody else who was wondering when we were going to take it to the streets and saying that shutting down the system was impossible were too busy staying home and not doing shit to stop the illegal slaughter of countless human beings.

So I did my part, where were you? Why didn't you come and help us? If we had had more numbers, we could have shut it down a lot longer. As it was, there were only several thousand of us. And if you could only have seen the havoc we created. If we had had more people, we could have done a lot more.

So how about you join next time?

I used to live in California, but I've moved. We have stuff here to do, too. Have a great day.

I seem to recall a few years back there was a massive protest in St. Paul against the RNC. A large section of it even tried to even shut it down. Were you among them, or were you just trying to get the "right people" elected? Well congratulations. We got the "right" people elected, and yet the wars go on, the Patriot Act goes on, and corporate criminals go unpunished.

At this point, I'll take the protester's way over your way. Sorry.

who get things done, you actually go out and take action when elections prove meaningless.

I admire you for taking it to the streets. Others who criticize American citizens for recognizing that more than just voting needs to be done -- not so much.

Keep on pwning their asses. And let me know if I can help for, though I'm in a faraway land, I'll be there if you need me.

I'm sorry, Mario Savio and Fred Hampton are much more inspirational to me than...uh, Harry Reid.

street? I doubt that very much. You may have disrupted street traffic, but I doubt you actually affected financial operations much.

But since you asked, a number of them did close for a short while. If that were our ultimate intention, we would have blockaded the entrances. Our goal was to mount an active challenge to the state by taking over the streets. The cops pushed us back on the sidewalk and the rest of it was a running melee with us trying to get back on and them trying to kettle us in.

You know what's funny? I imagine very similar conversations going on like this after the police sicked dogs on civil rights protesters and sprayed them with water cannons in the 60's. The police dominated those demonstrations too. And yet, the marchers ultimately won. Kind of anyway.

You don't need to win every battle to win the war Mineral Man. You just need to survive and fight keep fighting again another day.

coherence.

that's why I said, "huh?".

and ask it instead of beating around the bush?

nevermind.

to figure it out. What are you asking? Why is that such a hard question to answer?

And you're sitting there implying that I'm being evasive? LOL.

Hello? What is your question? Do I need to ask you again?

What is your question?
What is your question?
What is your question?
What is your question?

You having trouble reading that? Here let me put it in big, bold letters:

WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?

Most people gave up on that impossible task long ago.

Elites seem to be in a frenzy now --

think they understand it's proceeding much faster than anyone ever

predicted --

Obama is a corporate puppet too. He let BP piss all over the Gulf and its victims. He's let nuclear power off the hook. He's renewed the Patriot Act every time its come up. He continues our wars of aggression. He's still not as bad as most Republicans. Clinton was a corporate puppet also. Face it, there is no right person to vote for, not without dramatic changes in our system. And those change won't come about unless we force them too.

Truly you are not.

I've seen nobody in numbers sufficient to force anyone to do anything so far. However, I do know who has those numbers, and they're not on our side at all.

If just 10% of those broke off and blockaded Wall Street, well that's 50,00 people. Kind of hard to jail 50,000 people at once, wouldn't you say?

I have seen over a million people cheer a black man being sworn in as President of The United States. I just wish Dr. King could have been on the stage with him.

Sheer numbers of people are not the answer. Huge numbers of people show up for all sorts of things without making any change in society at all.

My point exactly. Those sheer numbers have to actually do something OTHER than wave signs and peacefully march and sing from point A to point B. 500,000 people cheering Barack Obama at inauguration doesn't mean anything if Obama isn't going to really deliver on his promise of change. Neither does 500,000 people protesting peacefully at a permitted event.

500,00 people blockading Wall Street and proclaiming that they aren't going to move until corporate crooks are prosecuted? Well now, that would actually be something worth doing.

One of the things I never understood was the later marches on Washington --

they were immense and moved like a silk scarf --

but we always did it when there was no one in Washington!

It's the spontaneous stuff that works --

Like the first anti-war demonstration in my town -- one night I was driving thru

town and just before dusk, here was a young woman -- all alone -- with just one

cardboard sign she was hold -- NO WAR!

After that, everyone was downtown every night -- and went on and on --

We had no doubt given the numbers that we could stop Bush -- we didn't! --

World is against these wars --

80% of Americans want an end to the wars --

and still Obama feels sufficiently safe and "franchised"/? to keep them going!!


We need a campaign, actually, to demonize politicians who take corporate money --

at this moment, according to Al Gore in Rolling Stone, they're setting Congress'

schedule according to the need to attend their fund raisers every day!!

Trust you read his article -- what he describes is fascism having taken over the

country without actually using the word --

and our Goebbels' style corporate press -- !!

Gore made clear that Congress is under the control of oil and coal industry --

Points again to Global Warming --

As long as we have these wars going they have a screen to manuever behind -- hiding

what they are doing -- grabbing/stealing all they can!

Their wealth is our enemy -- illegitimate power which gives them power over us!



:hi:

Much like Berlin in the late 80's :shrug:

and the reality that a "recovery" has largely been an illusion fully sinks in. Emotion and reality have to coincide before people are sufficiently motivated to take drastic measures.

The emotional environment -- hopelessness, despair, anger -- have to combine with certain objective conditions -- homelessness, joblessness, and deep losses across many sectors of the economy. Systemic collapse or irreparable failure, not just sectoral weakness are prerequisites. Ted Robert Gurr, most famously, observed that frustration and aggression are interlinked, and most often revolutions occur after efforts at reform have failed and some improvement in conditions was realized. That is the "J-Curve" theory of revolutionary potential. Both sets of factors -- emotional and economic -- have to combine and be set off by some catalyzing event before there is sufficient potential for a political rebellion.

Also, as Skocpol and Goldstone point out, revolution doesn't just happen, it's a process that requires objective preconditions. Chalmers Johnson posited that revolution occurs only when several major subsystems of society have reached a point of "disequilibrium." The product of an actual revolution doesn't organize itself, as the Tillys observe, there has to be some sort of alternative structure created by the opposition that is capable of assuming power - that precondition is called "dual sovereignty." We're still a long way from that.

in his studies of the American Revolution he points out that yes, it took a generation at least to get "ready" for it.

Also, I amended and added to my comments above.

The Unknown American Revolution

http://www.amazon.com/American-Revolution-Democracy-Struggle-America/dp/0670034207

Any of the incidents detailed in the book would have led to a fizzle All of them together, radicalized the population across the colonies.

All was needed... was a match. We are in the same kind of a process... very early stages of it,

A split within and among elites, and a political separation accompanied by a war, but not a true reordering of society in any fundamental fashion.

The Great Social Revolutions list generally includes the British Glorious Revolution of Civil War of 1688, the French (1789), Russian (1917) and Chinese (1949) revolutions and dozens of smaller national liberation struggles that followed.

I don't see any persuasive evidence that we're headed for anything so drastic as a Social Revolution, Class War, or even a shooting war among polarized elites. The American Empire, however, is ripe for collapse like the French in 1940, the British in 1946, and the Soviet Union in 1991. Imperial collapse has a different mindset and dynamic.

regardless it is a good example, like the rest, of how long it takes to radicalize a population.

No revolution comes athena like from Zeus's head. This is a common mistake. I mean people were surprised by Egypt, which may still have it's thunder stolen... but it took thirty or so years for the conditions to be just right.

It may actually take the additional step, but that will likely require a mass insurrection and some organized group to take charge of the rebellion.

I think the concern is well-founded that the Muslim Brotherhood may be the force that emerges to lead the opposition, and that is viewed as potentially very problematic, particularly by the Saudis and the Israelis.

what happened the morning after.

But the point I made is that this did not come athena like from Zeus's head. There is this fantasy, supported by our media, that revolutions just happen. They don't... for the record the Brotherhood is not the same brotherhood that killed Sadat... so my hope is that it's mostly noise from them. (And that they truly concern themselves with improving conditions and don't look for the outside boogey man for excuses)

I think we are into the process of radicalization here. It will take a while... in fact, I don't expect to see it.

A real social revolution in the South might have some sort of contagient effect. Demonstration that change is possible is very powerful.

You live in Mexico, don't you? Tell us what you think about that.

Also, what's different about today's Egyptian Brotherhood from 15-20 years ago?

called the US... The Turner Theory works here.

And I lived in Mexico, which has transformed itself into a middle class society, with middle class values. In fact, the next wave of immigrants might not be field hands, but nurses.

And yes Mexico could go, except that it has the US as a safety valve and... an internal war on drugs that has taken all kinds of thunder from the revolution types. Kid of it takes it off when there are people beheaded every so often.

As to the Brotherhood... people like Ben Ladin's deputy were expelled and the young in the organization are not as radical as their elders. In fact, they are more into social services than shariah law. The latter would be nice, but they made their peace with being a secular state (as secular as they get in the Arab World)

the undocumented in recent studies I've seen. Started in early 2008 as the housing construction bubble burst.

I wouldn't count on the border getting any less militarized or the legal immigration system being liberalized, any time soon.

Drug money and wars have definitely diverted the attention of the young away from their elder's role model and goals of a Fidel/Che model of revolution in Mexico, but that could change almost overnight by legalization in the US, I believe (the foreign counter-insurgency impact of the War on Drugs may be a major reason we see so little progress toward legalization here). The Bolivarian revolution seems to have taken root practically everywhere that the drug lords don't control the population through terror.

I agree that the Sunni Fundamentalists may have shot their wads, and that Jihad has lost appeal, except in areas such as Pakistan and Afghanistan where we create new cadres by excessive use of force. Iraq will be a very interesting test to see just how strong the desire for revenge actually is, and whether Iran will manage to exploit the Shi'ia revival.

Israel seems to be headed deeper into its own crisis of de-democratization and toward some sort of horrendous, bloody ethnic cleansing and unraveling of the pretense of a functional democracy. The Saudi Royals have bought domestic peace, but whether that lasts or someone finally manages to pluck The Prize is mostly a question of who and when in my estimation.

of a very recent FAILED revolution... see Chiapas...

as to the rest I expect the ME to implode, and not in a nice way. Hell, I expect, not popular, for Israel to disappear

in Mexico. That was most surely an int'l operation, and a very, very unwise policy choice by the U.S.

The ME is a ticking nuclear bomb that various parties are trying desperately to bounce, hit with hammers, and otherwise hack into to find and activate the detonation code.

Mass insanity. Chaos. Revolution is too organized to describe the political outcomes. The result may be more like "Children of Men" than anything else I can think of.

of revolution. People are damn tired of the violence. And yes, Chiapas failed. If it had not, then there would be more talk of it.

As to the ME I don't see a happy outcome... at all.

eventually something has to happen -- doesn't it?

Obviously their leaders are picked to keep America's BS Drug War going!!

To keep Mexico investing in America rather than in jobs for their own people!!

To keep the world safe for American employers who make huge profits hiring illegals!!


The people who know about non-violence and how to run revolutions are those among us

who have been most oppressed -- and we need to use their intelligence -- get their help!


Women have been running the longest ever non-violent revolution --

African Americans delivered themselves from slavery and Segregation, Inc. --

and still the attempts to oppress them go on -- and they continue to rise!

Gays and lesbians -- who continue to fight their campaign to free themselves --

to gain true equality for their numbers --

May be one of the reasons the Drug War and its violence was pushed even

harder there?

Seems also that not only are the trade agreements creating unemployment and

poverty here -- they are destroying their family farms --- Thom Hartmann was

talking about this last week or so.

Same kind of damage that was done to our family farms here decades ago -


Re ME -- this is the center of the question -- OIL ... fossil fuels and the fight

by elites to continue control over them -- huge money involved -- a billion a day

in profits? All of the ME and OPEC/Royals involved --

MIC uses 8u0% of our oil -- which makes BP part of the national security state!

But behind it -- Global Warming -- the huge secret they are trying to keep -- !!


Not that the public shouldn't have recognized what was going on simply based on

corporate pollution - !! But oil industry spent tens of billions of dollars over

50 years to hide the truth of this from American public --

to keep us and Congress from NATIONALIZING OIL INDUSTRY AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES.


And, afaic see, US is Israel and has been since Nixon armed rightwing Israels and

gained Israel as our foothold in ME -- !!

the Fat Cats -- and we need leadership --

right now we should be looking at changing the party leadership in 2012 --

and targeting as many rw'ers as we can -- !!

PLUS, imo, that's what the T-party is intended to do -- create a more aggressive

and maybe even violent political arena --

Rightwing can only rise on political violence -- that's the lesson of history!!



We need to organize and demonstrate in different ways than before --

unite in actions -- from "lights out" to taking our cars off the road for

15 minutes at a time at a given signal --

Wearing buttons -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- STOP THE WARS --

Handing out info to friends and townspeople ---

"The play within the play" -- Shakespeare --


Strikes are OK as long as they are unexpected and call-out's coming at any time on

a signal --

Strikes in not using buses and public transportation -- strikes using public transportation

and leaving cars at home -- all kinds of things --

lots of creative people around who would have many ideas!

It's beginning to happen -- I got a political e-mail from someone in town today I only know

proffessionally and it's circulating everywhere -- dump the entire Congress and it's all BS!!

I take to the streets every time there is an election. The result is Al Franken and Betty McCollum, along with some very progressive state legislators.

I take to the streets of my precinct and district and help people understand who is their friend and who their enemy.

Again, I ask you: When will YOU take to the streets?

Lots of people think "Let's you and him fight" is a really good idea.

I just got back from the streets.

TAKE TO THE STREETS! Never mind about the details. MAN THE BARRICADES!

Allons enfants de la Patrie!!11! That sort of thing is what I think we're discussing here.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE! STICK IT TO THE MAN!

It's too hot.

When they take the Internets away from us.

Props to HowardX for that one...

In Wisconsin and Tahrir square, just saying.

But there weren't very many DUers in WI or Tahrir Square.

Ryan's Pizza comes to mind, and follow my sig.

But Ryan's Pizza made out good.

this is the beginning of a new worker's right movement. Tell me, how long did it take unions to become legal?

The real push started in the 1880s.

How long did it take for women to gain the vote? Started in the 1870s.

How long did it take for slavery to come to an end? The earliest resistance started way back in the 1710s with the Quaker communities.

See a pattern here?

I could use Foreign history examples as well, but why bother?

And I've been to many a march and protest and silent vigil... what I don't get is... why are you advocating taking to the street at this particular point in time?

Yes, I am cynical. It's a gift. It keeps me from sliding down the slippery slope into the vast OMG protests over nothing.

the population is getting radicalized. IT is a process... but right now, people need to protest the deal making in DC, PERIOD. No, it will not succeed... so? Keep at it. The people at Haymarket died...

what's stopping you?

There is no Ryan's Pizza in Madison. Lots of us bought pizza for the protesters. I remember the name well. They got some of my money and fed some protesters. I could never forget their name. Truly.

Do they wear tags? I seem to remember some great coverage here with videos and photos.

Asking someone to prove a negative... just brilliant.

You got proof any of that great coverage came from DUers?

"This is how my mom wanted to spend her birthday (she's also a DUer). :)"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x517616

I said there were 'few' as in not a whole lot.

I'm stuck using the sidewalk for a few days.

Is this about the Netflix price increase?

TPTB stole your bike.

This will not stand.

take to the streets?

Oh, you mean the private boulevards owned by the rich.

;-)

then it never happened, right?

that has not changed. But in the past people STILL TOOK to the streets. The Labor movement, for example did not achieve it's gains by sitting at home. The same goes for the Suffragist. People need to LEARN that history. And to expect the papers of record to cover this is just delusional.

I'm guessing the Freedom Marches took a lot of static, stolid middle-class people who had a bad habit of saying, "take what system down? why?" by complete surprise.

That being said however, I think the majority of the American populace is somewhat sated and satisfied with the status-quo in the here and now... though circumstances could change overnight given the right catalyst, effective leadership and a unified agenda (Egypt jumps to mind)

did not happen overnight. That one took about 30 years. The American REvolution took about a generation... I could go on.

Of course this is the DU alternate universe where the reality of the regular universe does not count.

Take to the streets and do what exactly? Demonstrate? Sit-in? Civil disobedience? Riot?

How many people might you expect to do this because as bad as things might seem here it is much better than the rest of the world. Basically people are too comfortable, too satisfied with the status quo. If 40% of the electorate don't even bother to vote in a presidential election, how many would ever take to the streets.

I live in Wisconsin. I suppose I took to the streets last winter in Madison, one of the tens of thousands there, but really precious few have taken to the streets here in any number since. We will do well if we can keep people inspired enough to vote in the recall elections must less continually take to the streets.

This is not Tunisia or Egypt. Sure, people took to the streets in the history of this nation for labor rights, civil rights, or in the anti-war movement, but that was then and this is now. At this time, in a very divided nation, what is the one cohesive thing that would bring people together enough to inspire them to take to the streets? There could be a lot of things and many of them might be people taking to the streets for things we would not agree with here.

I'm not saying taking to the streets might not be a good thing, but I don't see it happening in any meaningful way that you might envision.

see Labor Rights.. see Civil Rights

See Suffragist movement.

Or have we all forgotten our history?

Yes we have had riots too, for the record.

Part of the problem is precisely that, people are CONVINCED it does not work... well it does... but it is a slow slug, not a sprint.

It's a different world now. It is not Labor rights, civil rights, or the suffragist movement. Those were all single and focused, cohesive movement.

Sorry, I'm convinced it will not happen to any meaningful degree.

and don't bother participating, Perfect example of what happens when people give up.

:hi:

and good bye.

(For the record yes it is a different world, so what?)

and especially how soon they will be hit by cuts and changes. If the Rethugs were more patient, their desire to implement "cuts, caps, and balances" would be spread out over a period of a decade or so, but their insatiable greed, blatantly contemptuous disdain for the dependent poor, disabled, infirm, unemployed, and the elderly, and their sociopathic behavior is so deeply ingrained now, that they no longer have the ability to wait it out over that long of a period. Their absolutely wettest dream of all, is to pass legislation meant to eliminate every single government program and service, and ultimately privatize everything with the exception of the three branches of local, state, and federal government and the military, and do it ASAP.

Why wait until Social Security and Medicare are disappeared?

And many are disabled -- !!

its time the "shame" train leave the station.

gee... I wonder why that is.

Chuckling is more like it.

I also realize, what you do as well, that this is a marathon not a sprint.

As to the radicalization, some folks are worried that when it comes, they will be caught in the wrong side of the fence. Them demanding my credentials and what i have done is also a CLASSIC discrediting technique. Suffice it to say, I have said in the past what I have done, no need to speak of it again. Suffice it to say I have worked both inside and outside this as it were.

it will happen, I know this... and I'm not excited about it.

perhaps will take ten years, But I am not excited. If this comes peacefully, like a few revolutions in our past, sure have at it. But if it comes with violence, especially a civil war, I am not. That I am not looking forwards to.

Which has been largely disappeared by rw violence --

I haven't heard about it.

You'd think that such an event would be announced here on DU.

all across the nation... than just another march.

so they will be coming. When they do you will hear of them in your local area. That is the way it is.

Someone is organizing the unemployed, I think?

As long as the latest console game can be bought, and season three of whatever is on, and that joint we've been saving is still where we left it, I just don't see it happening. :shrug:

Did you want someone to tell you what to do?

in order to have a counter march?

Edit: spelling.

what's your point?

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As for my point, I'll leave it to you to read my posts and discover my point.

You're free to think that, but you're incorrect. You are not in a position to know what I think. I do not know you at all, and you do not know me.

When I ask questions, I hope for answers. When they are not forthcoming, I have to figure things out for myself.

Your statement is incorrect and presumptuous. Please do not presume to know my thoughts or motivations. Thanks a lot.

but you already know that from experience.

Sid

government I am sure already has the military and police ready for the fight to come. I'm to old to get out there and fight for all of our rights. But I want to know where in the hell is the young generation. These problems are going to effect all of us.

WSJ has been telling them it's a "Ponzi Scheme" -- then they ahd to try to

deny and hide all of that --

But very little opposition came from the Dem Party to correct any of this!!

Yeah -- the occasional Rep. would speak up -- but that's it!

Responding has almost become anti-Democratic Party policy -- across the entire scene!!


Also, keep in mind besides the heavy propaganda aimed at them -- they've been pushed and

pulled by long waits to get jobs after graduation -- and lay offs -- and now long periods

of unemployment -- and no health care!!


Wall St. scams to steal their IRA funds -- Wall St. crashes that took their investments!

It sucks some here won't follow you. Or me.

Isn't that the rest of that expression?

Where would you like us to follow you? Where will you begin this action? I asked Nadin when she was going to get started, too, but she didn't answer. We can't follow someone who's not leading us anywhere, you know. What's your plan?

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bridge...the damned rusty thing is likely to give way and kill everyone who's big enough to die. I hear they have some fine bridges now in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It made a good sound bite, though.

In HR662 there is continued funding for the above project. Rep. Polis-(D) of CO, spoke in support of a motion to recommit the bill, with a very specific amendment, explained in his words, "This motion rescinds all remaining funds, about $183 million, provided for the planning, design, and construction of the two bridges under SAFETEA-LU" and that "According to the CBO this motion will reduce the deficit by $160 million by eliminating funding for these two bridges, nothing else."<56>

3/2/2011 4:10pm: Floor summary: DEBATE - The House proceeded with ten minutes of debate on the
Polis (CO) motion to recommit with instructions. The instructions contained in the motion seek
to require the Committee on Transportation to report the bill back to the House forthwith with
an amendment which inserts a section rescinding all unobligated balances of contract authority
provided or reserved for planning, design, or construction of the Gravina Island bridge,
Alaska, or the Knik Arm bridge, Alaska.<57>

In response Rep. Mica-(R) of FL, spoke in opposition responding "Well congratulations my colleagues welcome to the era of smoke and mirrors and that's exactly what this motion to recommit is and I urge its defeat. And you heard the gentleman describing bridges and he again is trying to mislead the entire house on this particular motion to recommit. It is smoke and mirrors, and I urge the defeat of the motion to recommit." which was the complete argument and explanation he gave, even though he was allotted a full 5 minutes to respond.<56>

"On motion to recommit with instructions Failed by recorded vote: 181 - 246, 2 Present"<58>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge#cite_note-House_Session_Mar_2.2C_2011-55

not that we didn't get the money. Neither of these bridges has been built, and the fate of the one connecting Anchorage to the Mat-Su Valley is seriously in doubt. Lots of money spent on studies, but I'll be really surprised if I see it in my lifetime. It's simply going to be too expensive to build.

I don't believe the one to Gravina Island has been constructed yet either. They built a road, but there's been no construction on a bridge.

Our mayor actually sued to stop the bridge just last week. http://www.adn.com/2011/07/07/1956920/city-wants-ok-for-knik-bridge.html




KABATA may be "moving forward," but there are no guarantees.

since it's almost 800 air miles from here and you can't drive there from here anyway, but the Knik Arm Bridge would spoil the view here in Anchorage. The bridge would go basically right across in front of where the snow-covered mountains are.

...there are more jobless than jobbed
...there are people 'disappearing' in the night
...police round up and beat protesters to death
...we have no vote
...I can no longer afford food


...things get 1/5th as bad as they are in Egypt, Libya, Syria, North Korea etc.


Some bad news about the debt limit, phone hacking, lost jobs does not give rise to the death and destruction open revolution bring.


Sorry...I got no time to 'take to the streets' - I have a full time job, a kid and ill parents. You do what you can - I will do what I have to.

Not for the reason the OP suggested but they're fun regardless.

You get the aggitator types. Usually the ones leading the charge from the rear or the ones suggesting that we must all rise up and damn having an actual plan. As long as we're doing something and taking actions things are going to change. Now, I don't want to sound like protest doesn't work. Sometimes it does. But it needs to have an end game. So the call to arms (as it were) of "Take To The Streets" doesn't really mean anything, but it's good for getting a bunch of recs on DU.

Next you get the holier than thou types. The ones who chastise other people for doing things they find distasteful, like watching American Idol or eating a jelly donut instead of takin' to the streets! It's always a fun collection of folks willing to bash what other people are doing instead of Takin' to the f'ing streets! Pro-Tip: If you're posting on DU, even to dump on people who are not TAKIN' IT TO THE STREETS! sufficiently for you, you're also probably not in the steeets. So if you're sitting at home or at the office dogging out people for watching reruns of The Simpsons and not TAKIN' IT TO THE FUCKING STREETS! then you're probably a jackass.

Lastly, I'll usually get so see some of my favorite DU'ers poking fun at the rabble rousers yelling about TAKIN' IT TO THE MOTHER FUCKING SKREETS! and next thing you know, it's 5:00 PM EST and time for me to pack up and go home.

So here's to you random "Takin' it to the streets" thread. You never fail to satisfy.

and clearly know everything about everyone on DU because they're above the plebes?

I've seen dozens of "taking it to the streets" threads and they are absurdly predictable. The combination of preaching to the chior and the total lack of an actual message is pretty much inevitable in any of these threads. I mean, if I were going to suggest that someone take it to the streets, as it were, I'd at least supply the time *I* would be in the streets and what the purpose of the rally was.

I'd love to see this actually happen at some point. Like, just get a bunch of the Taking It To The Steets(TM) people together in one place and have someone yell "GO!" and watch them all run aimlessly around doing laws knows what while simultaniously accomplishing nothing.

or DC staged drama. When it comes, it will be because of very wide spread unemployment, sky rocketing energy and other costs, wages that might be 1 to 5 percent better than you see now for all of those FANTASTIC "service industry jobs", and a congress and president (much like the ones we now have) who reply with policies to scarf up more bucks and lower the price of a big mac. Yea Team!

Don't worry, it's coming. However, you can rest easy, for now.

:thumbsup:

DU sure can be entertaining. :-)