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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 12:21 PM
Original message
Debt Is A Crisis
What if the imminent banging of Uncle Sam's skull into the looming debt ceiling isn't a crisis, but the very concept of debt is? The debt ceiling has been lifted numerous times without fanfare or fainting spells. All we face this week is a fabricated opportunity to gut social programs and trusts under the guise of a phony crisis and a discourse constricted to exclude taxation of the wealthy or cuts to the war machine.

But what if more deficit spending isn't a safe answer? I am completely aware that those who want to ruin this country by defunding everything but Wall Street and wars are opposed to deficit spending. I am familiar with the notion that the Great Depression required deficit spending in order to boost the real economy, after which the government's books could be more readily put in order. I don't imagine that a nation is the same thing as a household or any such simpletonian hooey. And yet…

A different sort of argument is made in this paper: http://www.monetary.org/yamaguchipaper.pdf

and on this website: http://www.monetary.org

Now, I'm no more an economist than a physicist or an astrologer, and am by no means clear which of those two comparisons is more apt. But I know that when a small group of private gazillionaires unaccountable to public censure is freed to do what it wants, it usually tries to screw everyone else to its own benefit. And I know that even more than the United States Senate, that description fits the Federal Reserve. So, I don't feel I need a theoretical calculation to prove to me that a better chance at a decent monetary policy would come from bringing monetary decisions under something approaching public control.

It's also clear that deficits could be eliminated, even without progressive taxation, purely by reducing military spending to sane levels, a glaringly obvious point often avoided by both rightwing pseudo-spending hawks and liberal deficit defenders.

The paper linked above argues that the gold standard failed in the 1930s, the gold-dollar standard failed in 1971, and the dollar standard will fail, in all likelihood prior to either John Boehner or Barack Obama favoring a decrease in military spending. Then there's this:

"Even in the scenario of debt crisis due to the runaway accumulation of debt fails to be observed in the near future, still there exist some ethical reasons to stop accumulating debts. First, it continues to create unfair income distribution in favor of creditors, that is, bankers and financial elite, causing inefficient allocation of resources and economic performances, and eventually social turmoil among the poor. Second, obligatory payment of interest forces the indebted producers to continue incessant economic growth to the limit of environmental carrying capacity, which eventually leads to the collapse of environment. In short, a debt money system is unsustainable as a macroeconomic system."

The alternative proposed is a non-debt public money system. If such a system really can maintain checks on limitless money-invention and spending, while avoiding the disasters of plutocracy and environmental collapse, dethroning "growth" and raising up the ideal of sustainable prosperity decoupled from international competition, why would we not consider it? Why, after all, should we get together collectively as a government and invent money, but pay interest on that money to a gang of pirates who send their kids to summer camp on private jets while pursuing a prison and poorhouse economy for the rest of us?

In this vision of a decent society, individuals and businesses could still go into debt. We just wouldn't be obliged to do so in order to eat or visit a hospital. And the terms of loans would not be legislated to suit the wishes of the usurers.

I don't know what Percy Bysshe Shelley would have thought of this, but he did write:

'Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number -
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many - they are few.'
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Money is not real anymore
It's a bunch of fabricated zeros in a system. It's backed by nothing.


Some people just have a lot more of the fake zeros than others....................
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. How many leghorns for a gallon of gas do you suggest?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sue Lowden, is that YOU?? I thought we put your idea to rest last year, girl.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. raise revenues: tax the rich for a change
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. hmm...
"Ye are many -- they are few." Yes, and their filthy lucre will scarcely protect them from our righteous rage.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Debt and deficits are not the problem.
Edited on Tue Jul-26-11 06:54 PM by girl gone mad
As Randall Wray writes:

“With one brief exception, the federal government has been in debt every year since 1776. In January 1835, for the first and only time in U.S. history, the public debt was retired, and a budget surplus was maintained for the next two years in order to accumulate what Treasury Secretary Levi Woodbury called “a fund to meet future deficits.” In 1837 the economy collapsed into a deep depression that drove the budget into deficit, and the federal government has been in debt ever since. Since 1776 there have been exactly seven periods of substantial budget surpluses and significant reduction of the debt. From 1817 to 1821 the national debt fell by 29 percent; from 1823 to 1836 it was eliminated (Jackson’s efforts); from 1852 to 1857 it fell by 59 percent, from 1867 to 1873 by 27 percent, from 1880 to 1893 by more than 50 percent, and from 1920 to 1930 by about a third. Of course, the last time we ran a budget surplus was during the Clinton years. I do not know any household that has been able to run budget deficits for approximately 190 out of the past 230-odd years, and to accumulate debt virtually nonstop since 1837.

The United States has also experienced six periods of depression. The depressions began in 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893, and 1929. (Do you see any pattern? Take a look at the dates listed above.) With the exception of the Clinton surpluses, every significant reduction of the outstanding debt has been followed by a depression, and every depression has been preceded by significant debt reduction. The Clinton surplus was followed by the Bush recession, a speculative euphoria, and then the collapse in which we now find ourselves. The jury is still out on whether we might manage to work this up to yet another great depression. While we cannot rule out coincidences, seven surpluses followed by six and a half depressions (with some possibility for making it the perfect seven) should raise some eyebrows. And, by the way, our less serious downturns have almost always been preceded by reductions of federal budget deficits. I don’t know of any case of a national depression caused by a household budget surplus.”


I understand your desire to limit the government's capacity for war and fascist activities, but I think you're mistaken to assume that the federal government in its present form can ever truly be financially constrained. The solution must be broad political change. In the meantime, people should understand how the monetary system really functions so that they too can benefit from fiat money, which continually enriches Wall Street and the war machine.

Interestingly, a true understanding of money might also give producers the ability to regain some limited control over the money supply. If this statement is vague, it's because I haven't fully hashed this idea out, but it would involve alternative forms of taxation at the local and state level.

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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Spending more money
than you take in, year after year after year, in the amounts that we are, is simply not sustainable. It never ceases to amaze me how people who stump for "sustainability" in just about everything else eschew it in monetary policy.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's true for households, but it isn't true for the federal government.
As the issuer of currency, the US government has to spend money into existence before it can be taxed, not vice versa.


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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sooner or later
if you engage in enough deep deficit spending, debt service outstrips your ability to tax, and the only options are rampant inflation or default.
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