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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 04:45 PM
Original message
default on what?
Edited on Sat Jul-30-11 04:46 PM by ashling
If the debt limit is not raised, we risk the government defaulting on our debt.
If the debt ceiling is raised by one of the draconian measures, we the government WILL default on it moral responsibility to the nation.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. If we default on our debt...
the best outcome is a heavy tax that will hit every American with a Credit card, house loan, college loan, or any type of loan. The worst is to take our current economic debacle and make it a real great depression, more than doubling the real unemployment number. Massive, massive human misery.

I am not in favor and do not support exchanging the debt ceiling for cuts to SS or Medicare.

The problem will be that if we don't raise the debt ceiling, the remedies forced upon us by international monetary fund will be to cut SS, Medicare, and everything else. That is what they do in every country that they deal with.

Draconinan cuts to raise the debt ceiling and failure to raise the debt ceiling in some ways is a win win for Teapublicans. They will get what they want either way.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The future demographics and payroll tax rates don't support the current level of benefits.
It's either the workers will have to contribute a larger portion of their earnings or seniors will have to take a cut or both.

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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I heard that, or something like that from Cantor...
and other Teapublicans.

I am not in favor of renaming the U.S. the Republic of Tea.

A Democrat who tries to cut Social Security or Medicare is a Republican. Get the wealthy to give more, those of us at the low end of the scale are tapped out.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That isn't how social security is done. It's a flat tax from the first dollar of earnings.
Edited on Sat Jul-30-11 05:46 PM by dkf
You can change that but then you are touching social security. Means testing is a no no for those who don't want it touched.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Contribuions to Social Security are capped for those who make more than $106,000.00...
Remove the cap and make it a flat tax right up to the wealthiest.

Read "How to fix Social Security". It can be done without reducing benefits, raising the age, or forcing most of Americans to pay more of what they do not have. You are not means testing, you just remove the cap.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Then you also pay more in benefits.
And you take in dollars now and create larger obligations later when social security is demographically in worse shape.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I good with that...
Those who make more than the cap should not have their donations limited.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "A heavy tax"???? WTF are you talking about?
The impact of default will be most acutely in the cost of government borrowing (interest rates paid for federal bonds and notes issued.) In a sense the default will raise the cost of the trillions of debt the government has issued.

There will be no tax.

There will be some federal government vendors who won't be paid on time. There will be some federal programs cut/eliminated.

Other than that... nothing.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Ultimately, it will cost every person who has borrowed money more.
Thinking it will just affect the government is fantasy. Look at other counties that have defaulted on their debts and done this. Look at Greece, where the European Union is forcing austerity on the government and forcing them to end their social safety net in order to service their debt.

By the way, I know this is a surprise, but Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, teachers salaries, police salaries are all government programs.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why even have one(debt ceiling)? If we are going to just spend money and
Edited on Sat Jul-30-11 05:09 PM by Rex
not give a shit about revenue...tell our payers to go fuck themselves! We can send Cheney to tell them in person (shotgun is extra charge).
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