Will the GOP figure out BEFORE or AFTER they vote Monday the dems & President Obama WON?

Back in April 2011 President Obama released his Deficit Reduction Framework Fact Sheet.
Sunday, July 31st, the GOP agreed to a deficit ceiling increase on the condition that there will be 'cuts'
The 'cuts' agreed upon gives President Obama almost all the 'cuts' that he wanted outlined in his April 13th Framework.

A link to Obama's April Deficit Reduction Framework, and commentary regarding Obama's Deficit Reduction Framework vs. the Sunday agreement:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x729581

So, the question is: Will the GOP figure out BEFORE or AFTER they vote on Monday that President Obama and the Democrats WON?
And that they, the GOP, were hoodwinked/bamboozled?

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Yes, Obama did punk them on that deal.

But the most he can say here is that default was avoided and a few scraps were thrown his way.

The other side won this round.

so I take it that you did not read Obama's April 13th Deficit Reduction Framework and compare it to the cuts in the Sunday agreement.
Because if you take the time to read it then you will see that President Obama got just about ALL the cuts he wanted back in April 2011.

by definition.



Editorial
To Escape Chaos, a Terrible Deal
Published: July 31, 2011

The President Surrenders

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: July 31, 2011

"In fact, Republicans will surely be emboldened by the way Mr. Obama keeps folding in the face of their threats. He surrendered last December, extending all the Bush tax cuts; he surrendered in the spring when they threatened to shut down the government; and he has now surrendered on a grand scale to raw extortion over the debt ceiling. Maybe it’s just me, but I see a pattern here."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opinion/the-president-surrenders-on-debt-ceiling.html?_r=2&hp

and compare it to the Sunday agreement.

not only contradicts his own statements but makes him look worse for wanting such a thing.

that the cuts in the Sunday agreement are basically the same ones that he said he wanted in his April 13th Deficit Reduction Framework proposal.

..... would be a "win". No other president has had to give up ANYTHING to get the debt ceiling passed.

It's astounding to me how anyone can find anything at all positive for Dems in this entire situation.

:sarcasm:

"Democrats won a provision drawn from automatic-cut mechanisms in previous decades that exempts low-income entitlement programs. There is no requirement that a balanced-budget amendment pass Congress. There will be no second hostage-taking on the debt ceiling in a few months, as Speaker John Boehner and his band of radicals originally demanded. Democratic negotiators decided that the automatic cut system, as bad as it is, was less of a threat to the economy than another default crisis, and many are counting on future Congresses to undo its arbitrary butchering.

Sadly, in a political environment laced with lunacy, that calculation is probably correct. Some Republicans in the House were inviting a default, hoping that an economic earthquake would shake Washington and the Obama administration beyond recognition. Democrats were right to fear the effects of a default and the impact of a new recession on all Americans.

President Obama could have been more adamant in dealing with Republicans, perhaps threatening to use constitutional powers to ignore the debt ceiling if Congress abrogated its responsibility to raise it. But this episode demonstrates the effectiveness of extortion. Reasonable people are forced to give in to those willing to endanger the national interest.

Democrats can look forward to the expiration of the Bush tax cuts next year, and will have to make the case in the 2012 elections for new lawmakers who will undo the damage."

So, the fact remains that the cuts that Obama wanted DID end up in the Sunday agreement.
If you think I am incorrect, then please explain with opposing 'facts'.

I like the way that rolls out ... President Obama ... Suuuuper Geeeenius!

of any first world country during steep unemployment and in a tottering economy is something only a genius could aspire to. I'm so impressed.

:evilgrin:

Just WOW!

and compare the cuts in that document to the cuts in the Sunday agreement - Obama got almost all the cuts he wanted.
So, yes. He got what he wanted which equates to 'he won'.
Please explain why you think he didn't.


Edited to add:

Also, the debt ceiling will be raised up till February 2013.
The Teaparty did not get the BBA that they wanted.
The Teaparty will not get the default that they wanted.
Obama is getting up front cuts to the Defense Budget.
The Sunday agreement does nottouch Social Security. Medicare and Medicaid are still intact!
And the Bush tax cuts are being left untouched, meaning they WILL expire December 31, 2012!

It is a good win for the Democrats!

Obama lost completely.

Need I remind you that the Bush Tax Cuts were supposed to expire last year, guess what Obama signed them back into law.
So not only will I not blindly believe that he will just let them expire in 2012 (after the election by the way), I now refer to them as the OBAMA TAX CUTS.

It might happen.

Riggghhhhhhht. :eyes:

"If you don't extend the Tax Cuts, we won't sign the deal. Period."

A child of 5 could see this by now.

Someone bring me a child of 5.

Looks like you need to add another option to the poll. May I suggest:

Obama caved and fucked us all?

1) The Bush tax cuts expire December 31, 2012
2) There is still going to be Tax Reform coming up.
The Sunday agreement is NOT the end of things to come.

Edited to add:
Also, the cuts in the Sunday agreement are basically some of the same cuts that Obama outlined in his April 13th Deficit Reduction Framework. So, he gets the agreement for the cuts now, and an agreement for Tax Reform a little bit later - it is the same results in the end that he laid out in his April Deficit Reduction plan.

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Why didn't that happen and what safeguards are in place to keep it from happening again?

the GOP held the Unemployment Benefit Extension HOSTAGE.
Yes, Obama could have let the Bush tax cuts expire last year, and then there would have been a hell of a lot of unemployed people that would not have received their unemployment checks that couldn't have bought food.

The only way to ensure that the GOP stops screwing over America is to vote them all out of office in 2012!

1) We do not have a majority in the House.
2) We do not have 60 democratic senators in the Senate that we need to override the GOP's obstruction.

I take the word of Obama that he will NOT extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
If you do not then that it your business.

I like Krugman's observation on this because it's so in line with the President's VERY careful word choices.

You know, like how "we do not support extensions of the Bush tax cuts" became "we do not PERMANENTLY
support extensions of the Bush tax cuts" back during the last hostage crisis.

Tax reform can be revenue REDUCTION as easily as it can be revenue INCREASES.

I took the president's word LAST time. This time, he pays cash. Sorry.

1) They do not have a majority in the house.
2) They do not have 60 republican senators in the Senate
3) They do not have the presidency

Yet they seem to be controlling the agenda quite nicely. Your argument would go better if you weren't indicating that Democrats are such inept politicians that they require supermajorities in both houses and the presidency to get anything done.

I will not sign a deal that doesn't include shared sacrifice.
I will not sign a deal that makes cuts to social programs for the poor a possibility.

Yeah. No, if you keep believing 'this time he'll stop capitulating!!11!1', then its YOU who has the problem.

You're like some fanatical fucking follower at Jonestown. "Hey, Reverend Jim gave me this glass-o-kool-aid. Now, I see that everyone around me that drank it is dead, but he told ME that mine didn't have rat poison in it!" *gulp*

"Tax Reform". I wonder who the beneficiaries of "Tax Reform" will be with the GOP running things?

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but claim until the next crisis they won, then they will start crying about all the concessions they made this round to their base to get sympathy for their plan to never raise taxes on the rich.

Are you really that naive? What are you 14 years old or something?

We were fucked by your president

this kind of attitude is why we are in this mess

Is that all you got?
Have a nice day.

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when they forced Boehner to delay the vote of his bill last week. Boehner gave them what they wanted and it still passed by one vote.

This new bill is 'worse' (from a teabagger perspective) than the first Boehner bill that they wouldn't vote for plus now the "much-hated" Obama is pushing it. Unless this new bill picks up some Democratic votes in the House to counteract the loss of all teabagger votes, it doesn't stand a chance of passing.

My bet is that the tea party caucus will "figure it out" and vote unanimously against it. So there's 50 republican "No" votes. We shall see what the 190 repubs who aren't formally in the tea party caucus do.

to get the economy rolling again, we are, instead, following the sage advice of the teabaggers. The only thing they didn't get was their balanced budget amendment and it wouldn't have mattered if they did because states would have voted it down. As for the Bush tax cuts expiring at the end of 2012, that can be reversed really fast by the next POTUS if the 2012 election is anything like the 2010 election. I'm worried that in 2008, Obama gained a sort of "rock star" status and the groupies appeared in droves and voted him in. The star has faded so I wonder if the 10 million new voters will show up again.

"are you still beating your wife?"

for cheerleading delusion. The nutbaggers so won today.

economy.

We didn't win shit. The TeaPubliKlans gained ground so they won whether they see it that way with their mindless avarice or not.

American people cannot, factually based.