After reading DU this morning, I see that the world has ended.

There is no future, just and endless now and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. The air is full of smoke and sulfur fumes from gasbags of all stripes.

Do you have a plan? I don't see any. No plan to gain the House back. For all the rancor, I see no cohesiveness beyond outcry, some based in fact and some just coming from I'm not sure where. When do you stop so you can focus and plan?

blithely dismiss our worries.

If SS, Medicare and Medicaid are cut, how is electing Dems to Congress going to restore these programs?

I ask for some cohesion and some careful thought into how to turn this around and that involves some clear headed thinking, not emoting.

and hardship. Please excuse everyone for having legitimate concerns about our futures.

We have concerns over our own future, and our plans include one for homelessness if it should be the only option. However, that does not blind us to the fact that we must work to shore up what now exists and try to have an impact on the future.

Now we find that we are just a small "subset" of DEMOCRATS,
one that cares about the poor and the working class.

dropped here. This is part of the problem. There is no reason to assume that only a precious few Dems have cornered the market on caring. This makes for the circular firing squad syndrome.

Look at the representation we are getting!

We stock the dem house with a MAJORITY of Progressives,
and they get told to sit down and eat their peas
when they demand progressive legislation.

The "firing squad" is shooting in only one direction...
at Progressives!

"This deal does not even attempt to strike a balance between more cuts for the working people of America and a fairer contribution from millionaires and corporations. The very wealthy will continue to receive taxpayer handouts, and corporations will keep their expensive federal giveaways. Meanwhile, millions of families unfairly lose more in this deal than they have already lost. I will not be a part of it.

Republicans have succeeded in imposing their vision of a country without real economic hope. Their message has no public appeal, and Democrats have had every opportunity to stand firm in the face of their irrational demands. Progressives have been rallying support for the successful government programs that have meant health and economic security to generations of our people. Today we, and everyone we have worked to speak for and fight for, were thrown under the bus. We have made our bottom line clear for months: a final deal must strike a balance between cuts and revenue, and must not put all the burden on the working people of this country. This deal fails those tests and many more.

The Democratic Party, no less than the Republican Party, is at a very serious crossroads at this moment. For decades Democrats have stood for a capable, meaningful government – a government that works for the people, not just the powerful, and that represents everyone fairly and equally. This deal weakens the Democratic Party as badly as it weakens the country. We have given much and received nothing in return. The lesson today is that Republicans can hold their breath long enough to get what they want. While I believe the country will not reward them for this in the long run, the damage has already been done."

http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=13§iontree=5,13&itemid=1063

only to see them sidelined and chewed out by
the bullies and cheerleaders whose job it is
to support the status quo.

I think that there are many people who have been pushing forward by communicating with legislators and working in the pits who should be called "Progressive" as well but somehow don't fit whatever the current definition of that term on these boards. Either we are all in this working together or it will fall apart. It's time to look beyond personal angst and pitch in with an eye to the future.

I thought that is what I WAS doing by working for
Democrats...

Now I won't have a "Democrat" bumpersticker on my
car.

Now I don't donate to the "Democratic Party".

I don't want my money to go to Wall Street Dems
via the DLC.

I donate ONLY to individual democrats that I can
see and hear SPEAKING for average Americans.

I also donate to Planned Parenthood and organizations
that support the separation of church and state.

The DNC, DCCC, DSCC, etc. can forget any donations
from me, not that they'll miss it, because I'm a
little person.

No banding going on, no cohesive group or action. Just whining and keyboard warriors all wounded and rolling in the muck.

TPTB are turning this country into one in which your wages are competitive with Mexico and China.

(initial response was in the wrong place, sorry)

Any attempt to extend them will be considered deficit increase. But because they're assuming that, letting them expire won't be called a "tax increase"

v

...and those almost never happen in election years. Unless you can get the tax cut extension through both the Senate and the White House, both of which have vowed to block it, they end at the end of next year. And the deficit deal makes it harder to do that in the House, even, because the deficit numbers are based on the assumption that the cuts will not be extended, so if you extend them you have to find another 3.6 trillion on top of the 1.5 trillion you already need.

in a heartbeat.

And even if Obama would agree to an extension to the upper-bracket cuts to keep the middle class cuts, 41 Senate Democrats won't, so he'll never see that.

The supercongress will be looking at tax reform which the President supports. By all accounts we'll have fewer brackets and a much lower overall rate that would supersede the Bush tax cuts.

Otherwise it has to be matched with spending cuts, and there just ain't the money there for that outside of shutting down the Pentagon.

And, frankly, if it's revenue positive I think we could probably do with some simplification -- as long as the effective tax rate goes up I don't really care what the nominal rate is.

here let me help you find it:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheet-victory-bipartisan-compromise-economy-american-people

our health insurance costs are SOARING, food costs are SOARING, Gas prices are through the roof...
If you are lucky enough to have a job--many of those are being cut down to part time hours.
Forget finding another, your primary job creator will demand extreme allegiance to his first.

There is more money going out than is going in...our kids can't afford to live on their own because they can't find jobs after college and our parents are going to be kicked out of nursing homes and hospitals because of reduced medicare and medicaid reimbursements.

Yes, I am fucking optimistic that sometime soon Americans might realize who the fuck the enemy really is--and the hint is..they aren't brown people wearing turbans halfway across the world.

As far as I can tell, nothing at all.

I mean, when I go through this ... http://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheet-victory-bipartisan-compromise-economy-american-people

I don't see my mother losing her social security or her medicare.

I know that the DU prediction was that Obama was going to cut, gut, slash, and dismantle those programs as part of this deal, but I don't see that in here.

But as CNN made clear the objective is to reform entitlements in the fashion Clinton and Bush wanted to do with Social Security.

The cuts to defense spending (under which Medicare would be protected) are described in the White House report as a poison pill designed to punish Congress if they vote down on the Commission recommendations without amendment, effectively forcing Congress to pass whatever the commission comes up with.

It effectively creates a third branch of Congress.

I really sometimes wish people would learn about things before they formed opinions. But, hey, it's the Internet.

upon news of the debt deal.

I am astounded when I see my President fighting so hard and so passionately to save SS, Medicare and Medicaid and programs that are so vital to so many vulnerable people - and people on a site for Democrats making him out to be the Devil himself, worse than Reagan and Dubya combined.

way to "reform" entitlements. In the past, they have always been examined within the proper committee of jurisdiction, decisions being made on how to improve the program...not cut it to reduce a deficit.

Not the other way around. Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1628111

Because we are going to end up borrowing a lot of money to pay off those bonds -- it just won't drastically change long-term debt (it will drive it up some, since it will be more expensive to borrow now than it was when SS bought the bonds).

in this proposed deal:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheet-victory-bipartisan-compromise-economy-american-people

Facts seems to show otherwise

Or else draconian spending cuts would go into effect only if the committee's recommendations fail.

And then Obama has the gall (as he did with Health Care Reform and the Public Option, which would have been funded by fines against those not eligible to receive it) to take credit for the provisions in the poison pill provision that is intended to never actually go into effect, but to serve as a preventative measure to force Congress to abide by the committee's recommendations lest it do so!

It's the perfect way to keep your liberal base, to endorse liberal policies by adding them as poison pill amendments to ensure the passage of your opponent's alternative bill.

Their recommendations get an up or down vote.

Quite different than have to "be followed".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMcE8XPal4A&feature=related


2Pac knew the truth

complain?

I have my share of concerns too. That doesn't mean that the only thing I believe can be done is handwringing.

made at 6:30 am my time. Many people are just now reading about the deal, and you suggest that people should already be organized, skipping all discussion, all interpersonal exchange, and I guess you are saying that rather than sleep last night, we should have already organized, without speaking a word, to take action on something we do not discuss at all?
To me, what you are doing is hand wringing. Whining that organization takes work and requires discussion, expecting the impossible, Not even 12 waking hours into this, you are wringing your hands over hearing discussion about it. What else would you call that? It is unreasonable to think that there would be an instant, sunrise opposition to the bill, risen full formed and without the need for discussions or fact finding. To share ideas is to 'wring your hands' but to demand that which is impossible is not?
Tomorrow you might have a point. Even this afternoon. But 6 am on day one, you will be hearing discussion, not calls to specific action, on any issue, anytime.

When the Super-Commission recommendations would be required to be passed without amendment.

After all, the cuts to defense spending and saving Medicare which Obama will no doubt trumpet,
are in fact attached to the poison pill which would go into effect only if the Super-Commission
recommendations are turned down.

Similarly, Obama has very cleverly promised to veto (in 2012) the permanent extension of the
Bush Tax Cut UNLESS he gets his way on reforming the tax structure in a way that is acceptable
to the current House leadership, whereupon he will not veto it.

Clearly what happens in 2012-2013 is far more important because it could mean the very jobs
of 400 people or so

you claim ... "When the Super-Commission recommendations would be required to be passed without amendment."

That is wrong.

Its not required to be PASSED with out amendment. All that happens is that the bill recommended by the committee gets an up or down vote. Their is no requirement that the bill be PASSED.

And, even if they do pass something, the President can veto it. And then the House and Senate would have to over-ride his veto.

And you clearly miss read this paragraph ...

"The Enforcement Mechanism Complements the Forcing Event Already In Law – the Expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts – To Create Pressure for a Balanced Deal: The Bush tax cuts expire as of 1/1/2013, the same date that the spending sequester would go into effect. These two events together will force balanced deficit reduction. Absent a balanced deal, it would enable the President to use his veto pen to ensure nearly $1 trillion in additional deficit reduction by not extending the high-income tax cuts."

This means that if the committee doesn't return with a balanced model in their recommended bill, meaning they don't include sufficient increases in taxes on the rich, corporations, etc, again, he can veto their bill, and just let the Bush tax cuts expire on time.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheet-victory-bipartisan-compromise-economy-american-people

1. "It is not required to be PASSED without amendment." Merely voted on without amendment.

They can always choose not to pass it, whereupon the poison pill austerity measures included in THIS bill would automatically go into effect to PUNISH them for not passing it.

Just like Americans can always CHOOSE NOT to purchase mandated private individual health insurance at inflated rates, just suffer the consequences and tax penalties (and the disdain of their more fortunate neighbors)... right?

I love how the Centrist dems are using the same logic for all these carrot and stick strategies to try and force the weak to do things instead of going up against the strong.

2. So you're saying that Obama can THREATEN to veto the Bush tax cuts being extended again unless the GOP gives him SOMETHING.

If the commission can't come to terms, the following two things happen ...

# Consistent With Past Practice, Sequester Would Be Divided Equally Between Defense and Non-Defense Programs and Exempt Social Security, Medicaid, and Low-Income Programs: Consistent with the bipartisan precedents established in the 1980s and 1990s, the sequester would be divided equally between defense and non-defense program, and it would exempt Social Security, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, programs for low-income families, and civilian and military retirement. Likewise, any cuts to Medicare would be capped and limited to the provider side.

# Sequester Would Provide a Strong Incentive for Both Sides to Come to the Table: If the fiscal committee took no action, the deal would automatically add nearly $500 billion in defense cuts on top of cuts already made, and, at the same time, it would cut critical programs like infrastructure or education. That outcome would be unacceptable to many Republicans and Democrats alike – creating pressure for a bipartisan agreement without requiring the threat of a default with unthinkable consequences for our economy.

I added the bold ... if they don't act, $500 Billion comes out of defense spending, social security, medicaid, and medicare are protected. Infrastructure and education are at risk. I would not like to see cuts in either, but I also would not call that "austerity".

"Austerity" would be cuts to Social security, medicare, medicad, etc. Which tells me that it is you who are spinning.

movements, as it is difficult to split that hair while in rotation with the spin. A slower, more methodical attempt might work, but not for long. Clowntime is over. Snark Week, cancelled.

others, who kidnap people and put chains on them. Millions of people have suffered just that. Slavery. But sure, folks just chain themselves, silly people.

DU does what DU does best...kvetch.

In an "ideal" world, the booosh tax cuts would have been killed off last fall but...(ready for the reality): there weren't enough votes in the Senate to pass it. Same went for Public Option (not to even dare to venture near Single Payer)...and that was with a far friendlier House. Last November the Democrats got their asses kicked in ways we're now starting to see. Nothing moves legislatively without codling to the rushpublicans...many who are corrupted by their own extremes. When rushbo says jump, they all say "how high".

The ugly truth is there is a big defecit problem...this country IS spending far more than its taking in and cuts are needed. The biggest bite should be (and I'll believe Barney Frank in saying there are substantial cuts in the debt deal) from Defense. The previous regime ran two wars "off the books" and opened the gates to the outsourcing and downsizing of what was left of the middle class. The debts are big and the revenues have shrunk. Yes, it's a shame that tax increases and closing of loopholes aren't a part of this...but again..."there aren't the votes"...and sadly that's the game that counts here. 61 Senators, 218 Congresscritters...no more no less.

For those blaming it all on President Obama...keep in mind that he'll be getting the votes of every Democratic Senator and a solid majority of those in the House. Thats where this problem lies...and where the Progressive/Liberal caucus falls short. And, sadly, it will as if the Democrats are to regain the House and keep the Senate they need to attract "Conservative" Democrats. Thus you play with the cards you're dealt and hope for the best. It's disheartening to see...painful, but maybe that pain can be turned into something constructive...to help elect more Progressives and re-energize the union movement. Or maybe people need a bit more reality and pain...

Sometimes it easier to rail at the heavens than it is to see the blight in the fields.

The sky isn't falling. It's right where it always was and always will be.

The politics of the possible is the reality of a healthy democracy. We need to pay attention at the local ends where people get into the pipeline.

Sid

Do they all support this bull? What are the figures there in your nation?

..... RW crazies.

If only we had a leader.

I really wasn't planning on coming here today because I knew what the reaction was going to be. What was my own reaction? Start fighting to take back the House and KEEP the Senate!!

I sat there and watched the news for most of the day. I tried to formulated some type of post for DU that would "finally" get my point across. I figured it would be hopeless, so decided to just stay away. I changed my mind and after reading this simple, to the point, rational post...I'm glad I did.

Thank you, Skidmore. I'm too old to think that this is the end of the world. It's time to go to work. Well, actually, that should have been before the '10 elections, but...whatever. :eyes:

Chicken Little impersonation, you are part of the problem.

...and they will be shouted down by the the same people who shout at them for "not having a plan." You can't support progressive candidates because they can't get elected! Everything will be your fault! Do what Obama and the beltway Democrats demand!

he is in the plan or not he is there. What plan can work with that?

Apparently, we don't know how to be strong grassroots.

And I was there.

LMAO

:nuke:

Rebuff Obama solicitations being clear that you're part of the disillusioned base.

How's that for a plan?

through feigned incompetence and ineffectiveness again.

We planned big in 2008. We had big hopes for change.

We thought we won.

We got sold out and fucked over. And over. And over. And over. ad infinitum
:puke:

The only "plan" that I can see working, if anything is to be changed, is cohesive peaceful revolution.

to deliver everything. WE did not ensure that he was able to have the tool of the legislature in 2010. We have been passive and have failed to stand up and act.

of Congress, along with a Democratic President, so that they could get the job done.

Unfortunately, the corporatists among them, which proved to be the majority of them, made sure that nothing could get done that was not of primary benefit to corporations and other wealthy private interests.

The very essence of Epic Fail as it concerns everyone in the US that is not wealthy.

A welcome antidote to the super-hysteria.

It's almost like chewing on a wad of tin foil.

Never give up.

Some people are tied into knots.