3 big victories for Obama and Dems In debt ceiling fight - Republicans just trying to save face

http://LiberalLampPost.com/2011/08/01/3-big-victories-for-obama-dems-in-debt-ceiling-fight-%e2%80%93-republicans-just-trying-to-save-face/

The current debt ceiling battle is sputtering its last coughs. While Republican leaders are tinkling their victory triangles, a more nuanced view reveals that Obama and Dems are the ones who outplayed the GOP.

Yes, on the surface, Dems didn’t get Republicans to open their tight fists and offer any revenue. But the devil’s in the details – and here they are (from the White House fact sheet):

Republican ‘Wins’:

GOP achieved a debt limit increase that requires almost dollar-for-dollar spending cuts ($2.4 trillion).
Revenues aren’t part of the first step in the two-step process.
Republicans get to keep up the appearance that they are fighting for a balanced budget amendment (but it won’t ultimately pass – the enforcement clause of the deal sees to that).

White House/Democrat Wins:

Spending cuts ($2.4 trillion over 10 years) are a little more than half of what was originally on the table.
Nearly 40% ($350 billion) of the initial $900 billion in cuts comes from the defense budget. The remaining $550 billion over 10 years results from caps on discretionary spending (not itemized cuts), so expect the President and Dems to fight to spread those losses out to places where they’ll have the least impact.
Of primary importance to Obama’s base, all entitlement benefits and many programs for the poor are exempt from current cuts and the trigger cuts.
The “triggers,” or fail-safe plans, heavily favor Democrats. If the bi-partisan commission fails to agree to a balanced plan – or Congress fails to pass a balanced plan – the Defense budget alone will take half the spending cuts ($600-750 billion). This trigger gives Democrats significant leverage.
The process is gimmicky and allows Congress symbolic votes of disapproval, but essentially the agreement will raise the debt ceiling through 2012, one of Obama’s biggest sticking points – meant to settle financial markets and to avoid repeating this charade before the election.
Did you notice that repealing the health insurance individual mandate – Boehner’s big last-minute sticking point – is no longer part of the deal? Don’t think that wasn’t a hard-won battle.


More:
http://LiberalLampPost.com/2011/08/01/3-big-victories-for-obama-dems-in-debt-ceiling-fight-–-republicans-just-trying-to-save-face/

Bet this guy is dizzy as hell from the spinning.

This was a loss, a surrender. Obama was played like a cheap fiddle. As always, he caved.

Why don't you give it a shot.

Must be on a coffee break.

or devoid of real items.....

hp gi'vl u pitdr;g

Rec. didn't move off 0. Sorry about that, because this is a really interesting post.

Boehner wanted to kill them; Obama saved them. People really need to research and find out what's actually in the bill before reacting. The misinformation I'm seeing on this board today is really distressing.

Debt Deal Would End Subsidized Loans To Grad Students

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1634392&mesg_id=1634392

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1634392&mesg_id=1634392

"One aspect of the debt ceiling deal that has been under-reported is the way it would change the federal student aid program. While it admirably boosts Pell Grant appropriations in order to maintain the maximum grant, keeping the program strong for American students, it severely cuts another important federal aid program."


Posted some other links earlier today here ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1630180&mesg_id=1632605

students and law students working part time jobs?? That just blows my mind.

daughter just graduated Med school in May, they already take on a large financial commitment compared to some other countries.

Why should their grad school be subsidized by US taxpayers? When more american teens take on difficult subjects and compete for grad degrees in them, I will be for restoration of the grants. Until then, goodbye to them.

Chill out everyone- especially the whiners and Obama bashers- and there are quite a lot of you at DU (and elsewhere). Yes- it's a flawed bill and it's not perfect. But it can never be perfect as long as we don't have control of the house and frankly, as long as the GOP needs to kiss ass to the teabaggers.

As I've been posting repeatedly - please folks- take a deep breath, realize sometimes things don't go as perfectly as we'd like and let's please get back to work and focus instead on getting the batshit crazy teabaggers thrown out of Congress in 2012 (which is the main reason we're in this mess to begin with because of lack of turnout in 2010- remember????

Another great piece that demonstrates how this is NOT the disaster for Dems that everyone fears. http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2011/08/paul-krugman-is-political-rookie-or-how.html

that only the financially comfortable will be able to afford to use!

Without that, well those large co-pays and fines won't make it to the CEO's, thus risking profits to be had by health vulture capitalism.

That is the most important part after all.

Whether or not President Obama got as much as people claim will not matter.
When push comes, the Republicans will hold something hostage and get everything back.
The Republicans know how to push President Obama into a corner. They know he can be bullied.

It will be a mixed bag what happens in 2012.
Some Republicans will be tossed out for being too extreme.
Some Republicans will cement their position having shown they can get results.

Even if we take back the House and keep the Senate and keep the White House, I'll be sad.
We'll have Blue Dog Democrats siding with the Republicans on everything except Speaker or Leader.

We got here because of demands by the repubs. We had to give into them or risk a crisis. Who has the balls to stand by their beliefs? It certain wasn't Dems. We should have not even had to negotiate anything. We didn't win shit. We got pushed around by a bunch of stupid ignorant tea party people. I would not take that a anything to be proud of.

and there are people in our party who will not own up to it. They told people not to got out and vote because it would punish President Obama. What they did was usher in Teabaggers who have pushed the Right even further right. What they did was put in ignorant uneducated people in positions to make simple decisions when the decisions have to be understood.

Elections have consequences. What is more amazing is we see people already talking about primarying the president, 3rd party candidates to draw votes away from the president. WTF is not understood, the only person right now holding back the Right Wing is President Obama.

Solution: Elect Democratic people to the House and Senate, no Blue Dogs. We need overwhelming majorities in both the House and the Senate.

it's really that simple.

Those dems who are involved in politics, ie: read and discuss it, did not stay home. It was those who are indies, the young and the part time voters, they weren't motivated to vote. They jumped on the Obama bandwagon and voted for him. They either thought their job was done, or were unimpressed by Obama and stayed home.

Independent voters, a key to President Obama’s election two years ago, turned sharply to the G.O.P. Republicans also won more support than usual from reliably Democratic constituencies: less affluent and less educated voters, urbanites and voters from the nation’s East and West. A notable exception was black voters, who continued to support Democrats in strong numbers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/weekinreview/07marsh.html

When you don't see things in your life changing, you 'throw the bums out'.

zalinda

New adventures abound in caving.

Having the cave roof come down on one is just an exciting new challenge.

;-)

I want a victory that is actually a "victory" for a change -- y'know, since we control 2/3 of the government and all -- not just another "we didn't get our asses kicked as bad as we could have!" excuse from the spineless Democratic "leaders."

.

All is well.

This is an even bigger win for working folks than preserving Bush's tax cuts for billionaires last December!

Now everyone sing along with me .....

http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/happydays.htm

That's not a victory. Especially when there was no reason to negotiate in the first place.

Congress passed two contradictory laws: the budget and the debt limit.

Honoring the debt limit is illegal, because of the budget.
Honoring the budget is illegal, because of the debt limit.

In previous situations where there were contradictory laws, the executive branch picked one to enforce until Congress could resolve the conflict. So Obama could have ignored the debt limit until Congress passed a smaller budget or raised the debt limit.

He'd be breaking the law by honoring the limit or disregarding it. So might as well disregard it.

:thumbsup:

The GOP "won" by raising the debt limit. It seems to me both sides had an interest in that, so I don't know that that in and of itself can be counted a "win" by anyone. As for revenues and a balanced budget amendment, the Republicans win and win big in that there's nothing requiring anyone to take up higher tax rates now, in the next six months, or ever. The mere fact that such a horribly misguided policy idea as a balance budget amendment even gets oxygen now, let alone that it now gets "serious" consideration from the Very Serious People is an unparalleled victory. This is the sort of building block that the Republicans eventually turn into policy (for example, the now commonly accepted notion that torture of persons luckless to be taken hostage by the U.S. is a permissible tool of foreign policy).

The Democrats "won" by getting punched in the gut instead of in the face. The promised cuts in defense will vanish the next time someone gets scared enough to wet his pants, and we need to increase the defense budget to protect America and save our freedom, so those promises are worth slightly less than the fair market value of the electrons used to compose them on a computer screen. Ditto for the claimed "exemptions" for "entitlement benefits" (which I believe refers to already-funded benefits like social security) and "many programs for the poor" (which are apparently not entitlements in someone's mind).

And of course, the canard that this deal will "avoid repeating this charade before the election" next year. This is, I surmise, based on the Republicans' sworn promise not to demagogue the issue during the 2012 campaign. Heh.

Heh, heh.

*Sqmrsk!*

:rofl:

Yeah, right.

http://tinyurl.com/ObamaWinDebtDeal

:patriot:

There are plenty of bad ideas in this deal. There are a lot of different possibilities for how it will play out. Too much of the speculation is breeding unnecessary hysteria. I think we should focus on 2012.

So Medicare untouched, SS untouched, Bush tax cuts expire and big cuts to defense spending.

And some folks on this board are STILL whining and talking about being "screwed." They will take victory in absolutely nothing. EVERYTHING must be a defeat. You just have to wonder what the hell is going on (if you care, that is)

And then we're going to Disneyland to celebrate!!

Unbelievable.

pretty good. The cuts dont take place until 2013, which is when the Bush tax cuts expire. So theres the balance.

About 50% of the cuts will be in defence. 0% will come from the big 3.

I expect the upcoming budget battle to be tough. Sooner or later the GOP will realize what really happend here.

deem & pass for the 2012 budget was included in the debt deal. NICE!!


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/01/1001806/-Remember-Demon-Pass-Its-baaaaaaaaack?via=tag

A late broadcast of her show on Seattle Progressive 1090 KPTK
6:00pm - 9:00pm Pacific time.

http://tunein.com/radio/Progressive-1090-KPTK-s26619/

I caught part of her show earlier today and wanted to get the whole thing, so am listening now.

She's doing a good job breaking it down, and it's worth a listen.

:hi:

Sid

so first their going to cut off both my arms, then they only cut off one, i'd clap but....

and i should be happy because down the road obama MIGHT do the right thing?

and you can assure me, with 100% certainty that ss and medicare are not going to be cut?

so 350 billion from defense now and possible 600-750 billion later...you're kidding right?...you actually think that could possibly happen in this universe? everyone with 2 neurons worth of political sense KNOWS WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that that will not happen without some corresponding way of shoveling more money to the mic, like with a BRAND NEW ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE WAR AFTER WHICH ALL BETS WILL BE OFF, for instance!. See, wasn't that easy.

the mandate to shovel money to insurance companies was saved!!!! again, i'd clap but....(see first point).

now let me explain something to you: the world is run by sociopaths who are supported by brainwashed automatons.

When in reality it is a defeat, a defeat because A: This didn't have to happen in the first place, and B: We could have gotten a clean debt ceiling bill if Obama and the Dems had held firm.

But hey, keep telling yourself these lies about victory, whatever it takes to get you through. The rest of us know the difference between reality and spin.

The disastrous TOTAL ACCEPTANCE of Repuke messaging by Obama. This will make it far harder to insist on Democratic values next year.

We now have a fascist SuperCongress to dictate up or down votes on cutting Social Security and Medicare.

That was like number 3 on my list of reasons to support Obama over Hillary. Her plan had a mandate and his did not.

But hey, we kept the mandate that I hate, so that counts as a win.

Somewhere. For somebody.

Somebody else.

58% of the direct budget is war dept stuff, so only 40% is a win for them.

Then 550 bil over 10 years on a budget that all-in is 1.2 trillion per year, is nothing.

Pathetic. We are killing people in needless wars and funding them by punishing the elderly. NOTHING to be proud of, IMHO.