Honestly, this wasn't even a good POLITICAL decision.

I will admit that economically, I've disagreed with everything - EVERYTHING - that the President has done. I strongly disagree with him that in these dire times require compromise and a return to civility in government. However, I also have to admit that he has been very politically astute, at least regarding his own standing with the American people.

But this debt ceiling deal? He and his advisers must be in full-blown panic mode right now.

This deal made no one happy. Look around - not just on DU but in the mainstream media. Obama didn't even get one good day of PR from this "political" victory. The media, left-wing and not, is correctly reporting that this deal is going to be a disaster for the economy. I got an email from Jay Inslee (D - hopes to be governor of Washington State) that STARTS, "I believe the bill is a terrible and unbalanced proposal." Wall Street didn't even like it - the Dow was down over 250 pts, and is down about 8% over the past two weeks.

In two weeks, the electorate will forget this debate and focus on jobs and the economy (as it has for the past 100 years or more). And on that, this deal was an unmitigated failure. Reduced spending means reduced jobs - period. Obama, in brokering this deal, guaranteed a President Romney or Bachmann.

No one seems to think that this was a good move for the economy. So if you disagree with this OP, please explain WHY you think - after today's coverage - that this was a wise political move. Good luck.

It's their fault, ultimately, but he can't say that now.

Obama is no longer an alternative. He is full owner of all these terrible policies, including the ones taken over from Bush. I think people wanted a change. I think they really WANTED someone to use the existing executive authority to undo all that Bush had done. Sometimes you can only tear down the master's house using the master's tools.

and used the 14h Amendment if they didn't cave.

Even if it was 3:1 ratio of cuts:revenue.

Shared Sacrifice and all that.

Just like everything else

yup

That only works if the newly unemployed get the sense that Obama fought for them with everything he had. If then, even.

And then we'd be in an even worse condition than we are now.

The Corporate owned SCOTUS. Really? Roberts and Alito would never stand for it. 7-2 Uphold, at worst.

There would be a lot more ammunition that might make them open season if we retake the House in 2012.

SCOTUS can decide whatever it wants. It has no enforcement arm.

If the President ignored their decision, Congress is the only entity that can do something about it. And there'd never be enough votes in the Senate to convict.

we can't afford to pretend otherwise.

I agree with all you've stated....this deal will be a disaster for the economy.

from this horrid "deal".

nt

We didn't need any cuts at all. It should've been a clean bill.

How was he going to force the votes on that?

Refuse to budge until they come over to our side.

They weren't coming over to our side regardless. They'd rather drive the country into the ground first. These are not rational people we're talking about here...they're consumed with hatred and contempt.

And that's assuming we care about getting a bill at all.

Congress passed two contradictory laws. The budget and the debt limit.

Honoring the debt limit is illegal, because of the budget.
Honoring the budget is illegal, because of the debt limit.

When Congress managed to do this in the past, the Executive branch picked a law to enforce until Congress could resolve the conflict. So Obama could have chosen to follow the budget and ignore the debt limit until Congress raised it or passed a smaller budget.

He'd be breaking the law either way, so might as well follow the one that gives the most benefit.

Why would the votes be any different on the clean bill now than they were then?

Or is it only Democrats who are supposed to capitulate?

That is no threat.

"But this debt ceiling deal? He and his advisers must be in full-blown panic mode right now."

Poll



Obviously, right-leaning independents: they're "squarely against raising the debt limit" and 60 percent of them support "cutting about a trillion dollars in spending over the next ten years, with provisions to cut more in the future"?

Still, this is encouraging related to tax increases: "A majority, 60 percent, disapprove of the final package not containing those increases."

The President can move on increasing revenues and make some of them happy, but the MSM will play this in the Republicans favor: Keep polling right-leaning independents and reporting how unhappy they are.

You disagreed with extending unemployment insurance as well?

Wow that too

and no - this was the Teabaggers doing, not Obama's - and they wanted default as well

yup

It was the wrong package at the wrong time. I knew, and stated at the time, that the best Obama's "stimulus" could do was kick the can down the road for a while. I have a hard time believing that you can defend it, given that the economy has barely moved since it passed.

As for extending unemployment insurance, I fully supported that. But the President needlessly allowed extending the benefits to be tied to extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich. It was needless, weak, and stupid.

yup

yup

that a year from now I can prove that you should stop counting NOW. Unfortunately.

and the millions of US jobs it saved?

please tell me how this was "bad"

If Obama has STOOD for making the RICH Pay Their Fair Share,
he would have become an American HERO!

Eat Your Peas



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

because as much as we would like to think the majority are liberal, they are not, they are mushy.

instead.

So, now that he has given away the crown jewels of the Democratic party, we're supposed to elevate him from prince to King by re-electing him to a 2nd term.

In any other culture, he would be ostracized for doing something like this to his own party.
In China, they likely would have beheaded him.
The shit just got so deep, he acted like he enjoyed wading around in it.
But, he is no Roto-rooter man, because they don't even stay wading in it that long.

It's sad that we lost this battle, because we're facing 15 more months of this kind of crap.
And if Obama doesn't ever learn to say "No" to the Republicans, then it is just a matter of going through the motions of having an election, is it not?

It's impossibly frustrating and sad.

Not as crazy isn't a very strong platform. And if you feel like you're gonna get screwed either way, at least the crazy one's entertaining.

I worry that Romney or Huntsman could take him down, and easily.

But then, you have to wonder, how much worse would they be at this point?

the legal chips fall where they may.
At least he would give the appearance of strength.

The fall is economic collaspe it's were found unconstitional. But as long as he looks strong,eh?

No. There would have been a big to-do.

whenever trying to guess what the administration will do, I just determine the most logical approach and then bet they'll do the opposite.

We needed to reign in the banks, pre-privatize, replace management, cut them down to size. They gave them more power, money and leverage.

We needed an enormous stimulus, heavily weighted toward infrastructure and jobs. They went with a small package weighted toward tax cuts and full of waste and fraud.

With respect to the debt ceiling, I still believe coin seigniorage would have been the best option barring a clean bill. They dismissed any alternatives to compromising with teabaggers.

Ugh!

The better to default rather than give in to the teabaggers idea is only supported by the fringe left. We were presented with the choice of a turd sandwich and a supersized turd sandwich and took the smaller one.

First of all, yes. Default was better than this deal, which allows the Tea Partiers to continue to hold the American people hostage and also hurts the economy.

But second of all, and most importantly, those weren't the only options. Of course, the many other options required a president with some courage...

You sound no better than them.

BUT, also explain why you're ignoring the other part of my argument.

The first statement was so ludicrous that it was hard for me to go any further. A default would have been catastrophic and would have had GLOBAL consequences. This deal is bad, yes, and it's bad for the economy, but its consequences cannot remotely compare to the damage a default would have done.

Secondly, you weren't specific about those other options. Just saying "there were other stuff he could have done" isn't very persuasive.

political harm from this.

It wasn't a victory for the American people, and the Democrats must learn never to pull stupid tricks like this again.

Not that I want to see Obama lose, but hopefully the fallout from this causes him to snap somewhat out of his naive and/or conservative mindset.

They will also have to wash away the stain of this President's capitulation, poor negotiation skills, and tragic economic policy.

Republicans across the nation are going to be hanging the unemployment rate, 45 million American food stamp recipients, and (upcoming) reductions to Medicare around the DEMOCRATS' neck.

And it won't matter to the low-information voters that there were some principled Democrats who took a stand contrary to the President. They are going to buy what the right-wing is selling because we haven't given them much proof that our party actually meaningfully improves their lives.