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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:13 AM
Original message
Gallup - "U.S. Political Ideology Stable With Conservatives Leading"
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 02:14 AM by TomCADem
If these polling results are anywhere near accurate, then it illustrates the tremendous blind spot liberals and maybe even those left of center might be in dismissing the threat of hard right initiatives like the Grover Norquist Balanced Budget Amendment. We attack President Obama and Democrats with impunity, because we assume that it is all for show and if a President Romney or Bachman is elected, then they really would not seriously push for a Balanced Budget Amendment that limits the ability of Congress to increases taxes, because they are just saying that to pander to their base.

Well, that base just took over the House of Representatives. And, more folks self-identify as conservative, the people who identify as moderate or liberal. So, where does this leave the left, particularly on DU where moderates are dismissed as closet conservatives.

What is the path to winning elections and getting liberal policies implemented if the left attacks moderates for compromising? Personally, I see myself as liberal to left of center, but I am surprised that there are not more folks who believe as I do.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148745/political-ideology-stable-conservatives-leading.aspx


Americans' political ideology at the midyear point of 2011 looks similar to 2009 and 2010, with 41% self-identifying as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 21% as liberal.

<>

If this pattern continues, 2011 will be the third straight year that conservatives significantly outnumber moderates -- the next largest ideological bloc. Liberalism has been holding steady for the past six years, averaging either 21% or 22%, although notably higher than the 17% average seen in Gallup polling during the early to middle '90s.

* * *
A much higher proportion of Republicans call themselves "very conservative" or "conservative" (71%) than Democrats call themselves "very liberal" or "liberal" (38%). Democrats are as likely to call themselves moderates as liberals.

* * *

<>

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. More diversity in the Democratic camp
While the Republican camp is more uniformly conservative.

That might explain why they fall into line and our side is like tending a flock of stray cats.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's not going to get better since our leadership refuses to offer the alternative viewpoint
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 02:32 AM by Go2Peace
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. First, define 'liberal', 'conservative', 'left', 'right', then explain to me
why you are reading a poll that defines none of those but expects people to define themselves as such after 40 years of indoctrination.

Then...we'll talk.

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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. This Is Based On Self-Assessment, Hey Maybe There Are Some Tea Partiers...
...Who are in the closet liberals, but I think it is significant that so many folks see themselves as conservative while on DU, people trip over themselves accusing everyone of being closet conservatives who are lying about being liberal. Go figure.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm about as left-wing as they come - but I'm afraid these are the realities that we face in today's
America. Regardless whether or not people understand the meanings of these words, regardless of the fact that issue by issue a majority support most liberal and progressives positions on most specific issues, regardless of the reality of America's corrupt and dishonest media, regardless of whatever factors. Americans may have been duped and brainwashed. Most cannot carry on an informed conversation about politics or current events regardless what they define themselves as being politically. But all of that aside - this is still the reality of today's political culture in America and unfortunately it does very much affect the results of elections.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. Many people who call themselves "conservative" are actually liberals on most every issue.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 03:02 AM by w4rma
And no one except Wall Street likes neo-liberalism or neo-conservatism. Neo-Democrats are NOT moderate.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. 57% consider themself left of conservative.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The glass is more than half full.
I like your take on this.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. But On DU, If Someone Says They Are Moderate, They Are Dismissed...
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 10:53 PM by TomCADem
...as just being a closet conservative. Under DU's ultra strict admission requirements for being a liberal, 79% of the American public are conservative. Indeed, this percentage may be even higher, since so many people say that folks who claim they are liberal, really aren't.
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The Analyst Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Moderate has two meanings
Okay, I'm not an American, but from my glances at American political discourse and some extrapolation from conventional media rhetoric in Canada, I have come to the conclusion there's two different meanings of "moderate".

1) What most of the people in a given country believe which, in America, does seem to be well to the left of Washington on many economic matters.
2) What the political establishment declares is "moderate", which tends to be well to the right (on economic matters) of the majority of the population of said country.

The problem is that a lot of militantly self-described "moderates" and "centrists" on various web forums tend to be of variety #2 rather than #1. A sort of "golden mean" fallacy tends to pervade a lot of "militant <#2> moderates", who seem more concerned with watering down measures - with getting measures "halfway" between two opposing camps - then with actually initiating sound public policy. DLCocrats and Blue Dog Democrats might make matters worse if they're successful, as they confuse the public into thinking pointless, ineffective half-measures by the Democratic Party are the essence of "liberalism". For instance, many people probably now think that the Republican idea of an "individual mandate" that forces people to buy health care from private insurers is an ultra-liberal idea, whereas it initially came from the Republican camp. This has left a sour taste in the American public's mouth, whereas actually pushing for the full measure (a public option or even single-payer) wouldn't have left as bad an impression.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Excellent analysis.
No one here dismisses 'moderates', in fact most people here probably are fairly moderate. But your #2 is a whole other story. And there are more and more of them who have crept into the Dem. Party here and call themselves 'liberals'. Their policy positions are Reaganesque and those are the people who are dismissed on Democratic boards. Those are the people who have pulled the Dem Party way to the right and then claim that they 'have no choice' but that is 'where the country is' or because 'there aren't enough votes to get progressive ideas passed'.

We are sick of these pretenses, but more than that, we now know where they are coming from. The party has been infiltrated so what we have in this country is one and half Rightwing Parties, which is why all these rightwing policies are being pushed.

We need a true Democratic Party which opposes these ideas, but to get that we would be competing with huge amounts of money being poured into both parties.

However, until the Dems won in 2008 we did not realize just how successful the takeover of the Party had been. Now we know, and we have to decide what to do about it.

Welcome to DU btw.
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The Analyst Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Point really sunk in
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 04:26 AM by The Analyst
... when I was reading someone who claimed Jack Layton (leader of Canada's social democratic party, the NDP) wasn't "centrist" enough to win a federal election. The person's reasoning was based on Layton's opposition to deep corporate tax cuts, a position MOST CANADIANS AGREE WITH according to the polling data. Something really bugs me about people who think they're more "mainstream" than the majority of people in their country.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome. :)
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. Moderate Is A Dirty Word On DU - We need coalitions
The worst insult you can lay at Democratic politician is to dismiss them as a moderate at best, not a true liberal.

I think your point is that self-described liberals should be willing to form coalitions with self-described moderates because it is only through such coalitions that we can defeat self-described conservatives in elections. However, if we start engaging in liberal purity tests, then we are going to doom ourselves to defeat by only catering to the 21 percent of folks who actually identify themselves as liberals.

If we get bogged down in elaborate discussions of whether someone is truly left, rather than focusing on actual policies, then we will lose because for better or worse, only 21% of people are self-described liberals. You might have my vote as a self-described liberal, but what about those who call themselves moderates?
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indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. now take a poll about how many people wish to cut social security, medicare, food stamps, or unem-
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 03:34 AM by indurancevile
ployment insurance.

you'll find most of the population is liberal.

so i don't give a damn about this particular poll, because it's rigged to get the results the ruling class wants. so don't go telling me about how we have to face "reality" & "compromise" because of the overwhelming conservative sentiment of the populace. no, it's a lie.

the majority of the ruling class is "conservative" if by conservative you mean they want to bleed us as much as they can get away with.

if obama had governed like he campaigned, he wouldn't have lost support in 2008. the way he's going is going to guarantee a right-ward shift, because the supposed "left" = unemployment & destruction of the safety net, so why would anyone vote democratic?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. What .
...... he said. People think they are "conservative" but in a few short years most of the populace will be BEGGING for some socialism.

The only reason these polls go anywhere is that folks have not yet quite figured out what is going on. They will.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. most people have no idea what a liberal is
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 03:53 AM by iamthebandfanman
let alone liberal policies.

lets remember our president has been called a socialist.

the american people have a distorted view of the term liberal.

thanks to republicans, and us.

my biggest fear is that any failures by our president and his 'socialist left wing' policies (even though they are not) will be held against our ideology for decades to come.

i would assume that since they hear him being called a liberal, they would assume everything he does is liberal in ideology.


also, 1% of republicans said they were 'very liberal'? really? lol
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Liberal Fiscal Hawk Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe there's some mix-up with the terms
Most people don't want to cut Social Security or Medicare. They do want to raise taxes on the rich, cut defense spending, enact universal health care, protect unions from union busting, etc. These are liberal stances, yet the people who believe these things don't consider themselves liberals for some reason.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Remember cultural/social issues
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 05:10 AM by SpartanDem
is big influences on how people vote they may agree in theory with liberal economic policies. But have otherwise very culturally consverative views that shape where they place themselves.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. Self identifying means nothing
when people don't even know what these political categories mean.

So your suggestion is we must move to the right to be successful? What are you trying to say with this thread?

When questioned on these issues the picture is entirely different.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. No suggestion. Also, Why Is Self Labeling Less Accurate Than Labeling Others?
You would think that people should know where they stand on the political spectrum.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Unfortunately, after thirty years
of a massive misinformation campaign, people do not know where they stand on the political spectrum. This is what Rachel was pointing out in the segment. When polled on the issues a huge majority support a leftish agenda. Of course the right wing wants the American people to believe otherwise.

Again, look at these numbers!

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm fact based. It's as simple as that.
The party with its new persona since Reagan cannot stem the attacks on our institutions. It is not helping us. Right now, people concerned with the welfare of this country plus understanding what's wrong cannot promote gutting government services right now. Besides its callousness, its bad economically and won't give us relief.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. Polls based on self-labeling is useless.
A lot of people that call themselves "conservative" are actually liberal on the issues.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Okay, Is Labeling Others More Accurate? 38% Say Obama Is Too Liberal
While only 13% say that President Obama is not liberal enough.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/07/22/obama.aproval.pdf
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The Analyst Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. Most Americans seem to have a different definition of "conservatives" than self-described...
... conservative organizations do. At least that's my impression, as you're average movement conservative would regard someone who wants to increase taxes on the wealthy, increase government services, and increase automobile emissions standards as an evil Communist.

Regardless, I think polls that defintively tell you the public's position on ACTUAL, CONCRETE POLICIES is a lot better of a guide to assessing support for said ACTUAL, CONCRETE POLICIES than some abstract, hand-waving, and poorly defined ideological survey. Especially since the people who get to interpret which policies are "liberal" and which are "conservative" is a corporate media with a vested interest in undermining centre-left fiscal policy. The fact that these beltway hacks and people who agree with their narrative tend to regard the Democrat's rather conservative legislation as "too liberal" is beyond me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OKWRGuaUis
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The Analyst Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
25. Out of context info is dangerous....
Among the many memes floating around in the wake of the 2010 election is that America has taken a rightward turn, and conservative pundits seem re-energized in calling America a center-right nation. After all, a plurality of American voters (42 percent) now call themselves “conservative” — as compared to just 35 percent who say they are “moderate” and 20 percent who say they are “liberal.” Two years ago, moderates and conservatives both were at 37 percent.

But new research suggests that pundits ought to be cautious of overinterpreting the conservative label: It doesn’t always mean what they think it means: Only a quarter of self-identified “conservatives” may actually be true conservatives on the issues — less than the 30 percent of whom are not conservative at all, but simply like the label.

The reason why so few “conservatives” turn out to be solid right-wingers is that the word “conservative” has different meanings for different people, according to political scientists Christopher Ellis of Bucknell and James A. Stimson of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, who describe their findings in a new working paper, “Pathways to Ideology in American Politics: The Operational-Symbolic ‘Paradox’ Revisited”

According to their research, some people genuinely know what it means to be a conservative in the current political debate and indeed express matching preferences across all issues. But these “constrained conservatives” (as Ellis and Stimson call them) account for only 26 percent of all self-identified conservatives.

More common are the “moral conservatives” (34 percent), who think of themselves as conservative in terms of their own personal values, be they social or religious. And they are indeed right-leaning on social, cultural and religious issues. But they also like government spending on a variety of programs and generally approve of government interventions in the marketplace, hardly making them true conservatives.

And still others, “conflicted conservatives” (30 percent), are not conservative at all on the issues. But they like identifying themselves as conservatives. To them, it somehow sounds better. “They like the word,” explained Ellis. Or at least, they like it better then their other choices in the traditional self-identification questionnaire: moderate and liberal.

Finally, a smaller group of self-identified “conservatives” (10 percent) could be classified as libertarian — conservative on economic issues, liberal on social issues.

Self-identified liberals, on the other hand, are consistently liberal on all the issues, according to Ellis and Stimson. Two-thirds of liberals fit into the category of “constrained liberals,” who pick the label because it actually describes their worldview.

A good part of the reason why moral conservatives keep calling themselves conservative (despite dubiously conservative issue positions) is that these are voters who don’t follow politics closely enough to fully understand what it means to be a political conservative. Conflicted conservatives, meanwhile, identify as conservatives because they hear liberals defend programs and Republicans defend principles and agree with both without confronting the contradictions.


http://www.miller-mccune.com/politics/america-not-as-politically-conservative-as-you-think-26845/#

So (42*0.26= 10.92) only 11% of Americans are solid conservatives. I certainly think compromising on economic issues is the sure way to lose potential economically populist "moral conservative" backing and failing to defend progressive policies more generally will lose "conflicted conservatives" who actually like the progressive agenda but think being "conservative" merely means having a good work ethic.
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LetTimmySmoke Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
26. Half the people who call themselves conservatives are..
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 05:25 AM by LetTimmySmoke
...in favor of basic government regulation and services, want higher taxes on the rich, don't want medicare or education gutted, etc. Hell a lot of them are even for marriage equality now, as well as ending the war on drugs.

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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. In other words, our president reflects the views of the electorate.
Not surprising.
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