Older DU members, tell us what you remember about Nixon, who some here consider a liberal:

I keep reading that "Nixon was more liberal than Obama", so I figger some of the younguns need a better education:

Let me start by reminding people he gave Cheney and Rumsfield prominent positions in his administration.

Look at his health plan, his record on the environment, and his economic policies. Domestically, Nixon was very much a moderate.

The real problem is that Nixon was a conservative Republican in 1968, but the Republican Party has pushed the "center" so far right that Nixon would be seen as a liberal today.

n/t

But Watergate told us what evil was at the heart of that man and those Republicans who would take power in any way they could.

What's interesting is that without Watergate, he still would've won in a landslide. But they had to have the "plumbers" and rest of the gang to make sure they could steal it if they needed to.

Everyone wanted "ecology" legislation; everyone had read SILENT SPRING and they were scared shitless.

Don't paint him as the great environmentalist; he was a pragmatist.

Nixon had nothing to do with any of that except to sign the bill after it was passed

and fools give him credit for it

:sigh:

that bill was shoved down his throat.

Reorganization Plan No. 3 was an executive order submitted to the United States Congress on July 9, 1970 by President Richard Nixon establishing the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and setting forth the components of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). The order consolidated components from different Federal agencies to form the EPA, "a strong, independent agency" that would establish and enforce federal environmental protection laws.<1> Unlike other agencies such as OSHA, the EPA was not established by a single enabling act of Congress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorganization_Plan_No._3

n/t

He did have something to do with the establishment of the EPA. You can keep playing games if you like. As I said, I did not like Nixon. I do not consider him a liberal man. However, in the practice of economics, Nixon was more liberal based on what he proposed. But I was against his imperial presidency, his handling of war matters, and the fact he was a detestable person (and had a power/paranoia disorder). My post secondary education was in economics and political science.

Congress passes legislation. A President only signs legislation.

So unless there is background that shows the President either directly or indirectly aided the passage of legislation in the chambers they are not the major person responsible for legislation passing.

Are people that push party and personality over policy.

Conservatives are famous for pushing personality and party over policy.

Look at the Tea Party. It has all but died since Sarah Palin failed.

Not policies.

Yet, FDR is viewed as "liberal" here.

To clarify---I am not arguing with the fact that FDR made some very good decisions while in office, that benefitted most Americans. I'm also not arguing with the fact that he was an inspired leader, both during the Great Depression and WW2.

However, he was an Imperial President--dictatorial, overreaching with executive power, non-inclusive, and at times arbitrary. He was not a small d-democratic liberal in the way that he exercised power. Not at all. He belonged to the "Forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission" club way before it was popular.

That said, he was excellent at the "bread and circuses" approach, and offered the population a number of important "liberal" safety net programs that were extremely helpful during the Great Depression. When someone is throwing a generous forty bucks a month at you to build logging roads or dams or electrical infrastructure, when you've been out of work for a year, and you get room and board and can send that money home to your out-of-work extended family, you really don't care if the guy who created the program is usurping power that belonged to the legislative or judicial branches. As they say, all politics is local, and FDR was a very benevolent dictator, and his benevolence engendered a great deal of loyalty.

E.g., he would never suggest attacking SS like Obama.

I remember under carter interest rates to buy a home were about 18%!

Reagan was more liberal then Obama, so I tend to ignore those people as either people who have hated him since the beginning or right wing trolls payed to try and piss us off.

Courtesy of the firebaggers and other professional shit-stirrers.

:cry:

...and I don't care for statements like "Nixon was more liberal than Obama" because they don't really explain anything.
But much as I was appalled by the Watergate behavior of Nixon and his minions, and his opportunistic Commie-baiting in his early career, I think we need to remember that he created the EPA, expanded many "safety net" programs and successfully reached out to China. I read somewhere recently that Republicans let Nixon go without a fight because many felt he was "too liberal." I think it is true that he was a Liberal Republican, a species now as rare as pterodactyls.

his country honorably in the military in World War II. Those two facts alone distinguish him from the current crop of chickenhawk and chickenshit Repukes. While I don't think Nixon was a liberal Republican in the same way we think of Nelson Rockefeller or George Romney, his positions were certainly to the left of the Barry Goldwater wing of the Republicans and the John Bircher types who have spawned the TeaBaggers. Nixon instituted wage and price controls to try to stop inflation. His efforts mostly failed but try to imagine any current Repuke calling for price controls :)

few remaining Democratic Party racists from south of the Mason Dixon.

That was hardly a "liberal" way to win an election.

He signed into law the Environmental Policy Act that was written by DEMOCRATS and passed by a liberal DEMOCRATIC Congress.

He devised the fucking racist GOP SOUTHERN STRATEGY.

He was a narcissistic conservative sick fuck

He was not a liberal

Obama hater

fail

yup

who surrounded himself with noted "liberals' like G. Gordon Liddy and Henry " I never met a RW facist dictator I didn't like" Kissinger

Does anyone recall the name "Allende"????

Historical Revisonist

&

Obama hater

fail

yup

Economics wise, more liberal though.

Nixon played along - as long it didn't cost him anything politically

Opportunism is not liberalism

In 1971, after taking the United States off the gold standard, Nixon was quoted as saying "I am now a Keynesian in economics".

He also proposed the EPA .



The EPA was proposed by President Richard Nixon and began operation on December 3, 1970, after Nixon submitted a reorganization plan to Congress and it was ratified by committee hearings in the House and Senate.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency

I didn't like Nixon but I'm not going to lie about him. I protested him in my youth.

:thumbsup:

Nixon was traitorous, criminal scum, and those that suggest that he was somehow "better" than Obama are divorced from reality.

yup

Nixon issued an executive order which created the EPA. It did not come from Congress. yup

and he was more liberal than Obama in many policies sad to say, but it was because he was dealing with a population that was more liberal. The unions were stronger then and the cultural revolution and anti-war movement was spreading. He had to lean left on many things as did Congress.

I'm not defending Nixon. I'm just saying he's not today's Republican. He also knew better than to touch Social Security. He actually wanted a national health care program too.

Don't think that is the case, as current surveys on taxation and social priorities continue to show. This despite the huge barrage of conservative messaging barely contradicted by the Dems over the last 40 years.

and oh how my late father, a true democrat, hated him. He was an insane asswhole!

:kick:

hated Tricky Dick with a passion since the days of his red-baiting campaign against Helen Gahagan Douglas for Senator in 1948.

in the Eisenhower presidential race against Stevenson. The Democrats at that time campaigned against vice president Nixon because Eisenhower was so popular.

this sub-thread back on topic) and Nixon look like a Kucinich wanna-be :)

lee atwater was rove's mentor.

but there is a good reason for that... while he was a CONSERVATIVE for his era, we have shifted so far right, that today many of his policies would not be proposed by the DEMOCRATS.

And don't get me wrong he was a conservative... but compared to today his policies do place him to the left of our political mainstream

Ratfuckers have used wedge issues to steadily move the Republican party to the right, and the Democratic party has followed in a misbegotten effort to capture the "center". The right of the right is now firmly ensconced in Crazytown and years of conservative policies have undermined our country. What's coming next will probably be "interesting" in the Chinese curse sense.

is still to anywhere from where Nixon was (EPA for example ) to the left of him. In some ways, people just don't know this, which is maddening.

And yes, it will be in a chinese curse way... and I was hoping for a nice boring life quite frankly.

as Eisenhower could be consider very moderate and somewhat socially liberal in comparison. Nixon certainly had his treachery, but it was nothing compared to G.W. Bush' traitorous behavior.

would have instituted the gas tax to build the Interstate highway system, the way Eisenhower did.

Nixon was a product of his times, and he had to do some horse trading with a Democratic Congress to get what he wanted. On things that he had a true choice on, he took the reich wing approach every time. Never nominated any kind of minority to the SCOTUS, token appointments to the Cabinet in jobs that were peripheral, and that sort of thing.

If he had really pulled us out of Vietnam, he might have gone down as a great President. He probably wouldn't have had the paranoia that spawned Watergate.

Edit to add.. but the music was much better!.. The world has been moving much further to the right..but we are still getting civil rights issues through now, we could not do in the 60's or 70's or 80's

which was horrible, imo. He criminalized stuff that I liked taking.

Banning alcohol took a Constitutional Amendment - the rightward drift of the USA is reflected in that difference.

I've never been into the comparison game since there are so many external variables at play. One could say the U.S. was a far more liberal country at that time and thus by today's standards some of his actions could be construed as "liberal". But from one who was very much alive in those days the last thing anyone about Nixon was that he was a "liberal"...not even a moderate.

Not only did he have Rummy (who had been a Congresscritter) and Crashcart but also Pitchfork Buchanan, G. Gordon Liddy, Chuck Colson and the tag team of Haldermann & Erlichmann (the Roves of their day) running the show. The mood of the country was far different than it is today...maybe a bit less cynical and definitely less polarized. Today politics is a bloodsport...anything goes....the end justifies the means.

John Mitchell, who may have been the creepiest of them all (but whose wife, Martha, partially made up for it :)

On edit: Nah, on mature reflection, G. Gordon Liddy wins the 'Creepy' award (although the intials of the re-election comittee that Mitchell chaired were, ironically, CREEP :)

He was a mass murderer who should have been tried for crimes against humanity along with his sidekick Kissinger.

And hardly anyone ever mentions Brzezinski in conjunction with Obama.

God, Nixon and Mitchell and Kissinger....uggggh.

And, Nixon cut the Legal Aid programs for the poor and attacked welfare programs.

mean he was particularly nice nor liberal socially though he wasn't a religious right person.

:shrug:

that said "Nixon is a plumbers friend".;-)

IMPEACH THE COX SACKER.

:thumbsup:

Good one.

The first time my father saw my bumper sticker, he started cracking up

VOTE FOR NIXON IN '72

:rofl:

Yes, his administration was MUCH more liberal than what would pass for 'liberal' as today.

Just check his tax rates, and for that matter, top income rates were 90% during the entire tenure of the Eisenhower (R) administration, while unions were strong and we had a vibrant middle class. Even Bernie and Dennis couldn't pull that off today if they were the only 2 voting.

It is apparently from the Nixon Library but it is a good overview.

http://www.nixonera.com/library/domestic.asp

This was Nixon....by todays standards, with a Democratic President putting SS and Medicare on the table to be chopped....Nixon sounds pretty Liberal....agree?

The Democratic Congress wrote and passed all that

Nixon just signed it

I recall some of his last press conferences, one of which dealt with inflation and the rising price of milk. I don't really have strong opinions about him one way or the other, to be honest.

that he came across to me as cold and rigid...often paranoid. I always felt he was a lonely man when not surrounded by his staff...certainly after he left office. I always felt sorry for Pat. He adored his daughters and his dogs. As for liberal or conservative by today's standards, I can't really say. Things have changed so much.

If I had any tolerance or admiration for him, it was quickly erased with Watergate and how he handled the coverup.

who signed things like OSHA into law because they were necessary even though they conflicted with blindly pro business dogma.

He's the one who ramped up the War on Drugs because he blamed drugs for all those kids marching against the Vietnam War. The cornerstone of his WOD was treatment, not interdiction or Draconian sentencing.

He also tried to subvert the electoral process, considered himself above the law, and gave plum jobs to a lot of the worst men that party has produced in GOP administrations since then. His rabid and unreasoning form of anticommunism caused him to commit war crimes in Indochina, including but not limited to bombing non combatant countries. He completely failed to see OPEC as any sort of a threat and failed to deal with it.

On the whole, he was dreadful. However, he did less damage than the next GOP presidents.

Nixon, while doing some awful shit, was not as evil as those repugs that would follow him. How sad is it that I would trade any of todays repugs for Nixon... one who was only an awful shit.

Sigh.

who can be heard saying that Nixon was more liberal than Obama AS TO POLICY, and the war on drugs is one of my prime examples. Can you imagine anyone today suggesting, much less doing, that the best way to fight the war in drugs is treatment? It's unthinkable today.

Nixon belonged to the NAACP until he discovered he could win the Presidency playing on the fears of white southerners.

some of the best protections we have.those are the protections the new republicans want to get rid of.is it any wonder why the today`s party never ever mentions,nixon or ike?


in today`s republican party would not nominate him for the town`s dog catcher.

liberal nut case. Nixon actually waited until after the USW signed a new contract before freezing wages and prices.

He took the "Imperial Presidency" model to a rampantly illegal, indeed treasonous, place. He was aided and abetted by thugs who committed crimes to secure his hold on power. He kept a list of "enemies"--sort of like a no-fly list, but it was a "Let the government hassle these people" list. His style of rule was autocratic. He was determined to do whatever he had to do--even break our nation's laws--to retain power.

He was not a nice man. He sure as hell was no "liberal."

Listen to him talking about Blacks, Irish, Italians and Jews here--a real charmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD593z4kzXU

How about this--the Jews are born spies; the "negroes" not so much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTPyE6f7GnQ&NR=1

He wasn't a fan of gays either, wouldn't shake hands with anyone from SF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPb-PN9F2Pc&feature=related

Didn't mind abortions, if they were aborting a biracial child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM1NGL79Z_o&feature=related


You can listen for hours at the archives, here--it'll give you a good sense of how "liberal" he was, which is to say not at all:
http://nixon.archives.gov/forresearchers/find/tapes/finding_aids/january1973.php

I can't believe people who think that because everyone and their mother had read "Silent Spring" by the time Nixon was running for office, and were concerned about Love Canal, clean air, filthy water, and toxins in the ground, and Nixon capitalized on that, that they suddenly regard him as a liberal.

He actually has a mixed record on "ecology" (as we called it back then) issues. He vetoed the 2nd Clean Air Act, for example.

The guy was a scuzzball. You know what they say, even Hitler loved his dog. Just because a guy signs a piece of legislation that the entire country wanted, does not mean that he was a liberal--he was throwing crumbs to the masses to keep his hold on power.

He was just slimy.

By the standards of his era he was center-right.

and made his life here in the US hell.

ambitious, fiercely paranoid, supremely adept politician (until his own stubborn pride & hubris at the time of Watergate); not devoid of intelligence, but with an ugly, prejudiced and brutish soul (if he even had one). That said, the entire political spectrum (Democrats & Republicans) were much further to the left than they are today. Everything has moved sharply to the right. Ike today would probably not pass muster for any Republican or Tea Party "purity" test.

nixon was not taken down because he was a conservative but because "there's windfall profits on my oil wells" (a great line in the oliver stone film of the same name)

nixon advocated for among other things the dole (guaranteed income for all) -- obama would not advocate for the dole nor would any other american politician today

he also formed the epa, now excoriated as some sort of liberal plot because god knows that having clean air (which the epa has achieved in many cities) is a Very Bad Thing if you are a follower of reagan

In fact, in those days I thought he was a far-right-wing fascist Dr. Evil sort of character. I couldn't stand him; I rejoiced when he finally resigned in disgrace. The fact that he seems relatively liberal now (signing bills creating the EPA and OSHA, for example) just shows how far right the "center" has shifted.n

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x619008


NYT article on how liberal Nixon was

He had a starkly accurate assessment of Nixon's political philosophy and personality, and he wrote extensively on the subjects.

when he asked Pres Truman about his successor (Eisenhower)
and about the Vice President (Nixon}his response regarding
Nixon was:

"Now let's us not get into that. I've told you, all the time I've
been in politics there's only two people I hate, and he's one. He
not only doesn't give a damn about the people; he doesn't know how
to tell the truth. I don't think the son of a bitch knows the
difference between telling the truth and lying."

Think Truman pretty well assessed Nixon's reputation and his ability
to surround himself with those of like reputations. Which was ultimately
his downfall.

Richard Nixon was bat-shit crazy.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/magazine/16-03/ff_nuclearwar



&imageCaption=&imageCredit=US+Air+Force

As a teenager, Nixon was my president. He scared the living shit out of me.

Many here and elsewhere tend to soften his image with platitudes about the EPA and his trip to China, which was the genesis of our current free trade disaster.

I will always remember him as a racist, homophobic bastard who was a wicked liar. He campaigned a plan to end the Viet Nam war.

Righhht.

Richard Nixon was, despite his protestations, a crook. LBJ almost outed him in October 1968 as a traitor, something just recently learned.

source: http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/542

His links to J. Edgar Hoover, one of the most vile public official in U.S. history, are enough for even the most cynical of doubters to see Nixon for how he really was.

He was a crook.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/graffiti/crook.htm

If he appears liberal, it's only relative to the present ... but Nixon would be very happy here now with a looming fascism. He was all for spying, lying, fire-bombing and enemies lists, and was one sick, paranoid, delusional, awkward, solitary puppy, who got naked massages in the Oval Office with his embarrassed staff trying to avert their eyes, according to Haldeman. He turned down the AC in the White House so he could burn a fire in the fireplaces during summer months. He made his bones by being a lackey of George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott. And I believe he hated the Kennedys more than he cared for his own family. He was ice cold, and he cracked up at the end. Oh, and we now know that he discussed an all-Republican media propaganda machine with his buddy, Roger Ailes.

"...he hunted them all his life.
The only one he didn't catch was married to his wife!"


No, he wasn't a liberal, he was a mean old racist anti-semite paranoid sociopath. And those were his best qualities.

In the morning before this:

May 9. Mobe sponsored Kent State/Cambodia Incursion Protest, Washington, D.C. 75 to 100,000 demonstrators converged on Washington, D.C. to protest the Kent State shootings and the Nixon administration's incursion into Cambodia. Even though the demonstration was quickly put together, protestors were still able to bring out thousands to march in the Capital. It was an almost spontaneous response to the events of the previous week. Police ringed the White House with buses to block the demonstrators from getting too close to the executive mansion. Early in the morning before the march, Nixon met with protesters briefly at the Lincoln Memorial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Vietnam_War#1970

Nixon did this:

In his news conference at 9:04 a.m. on Saturday, May 9, 1970, Press Secretary Ronald L. Ziegler told reporters that the President had made a sunrise visit to the Lincoln Memorial, accompanied by his valet, Manolo Sanchez. At the Memorial he found a number of students who had come to Washington to participate in the demonstrations for peace and talked with them at some length. The President later described the discussion to Garnett D. (Jack) Homer of the Washington Star, one of the first reporters to arrive at the White House that day. Mr. Ziegler and Mr. Homer later reported to other White House correspondents. Excerpts from their remarks at the briefing follow:

MR. ZIEGLER. The President, after the press conference last night, went upstairs to the living quarters of the residence and received and made phone calls. I understand he went to bed around 2 o'clock and got up shortly thereafter and was reading. And about 4 o'clock he called Manolo Sanchez, who works for the President, and said to Manolo, "I know you have never seen the Lincoln--"Jack will give you the quote.

MR. HORNER. As the President said, "I got up and called in Manolo and asked him if he had ever seen the Lincoln Memorial at night. He never had. I said, 'Let's go see the Monument.'"

Q. This is 4 o'clock in the morning?

MR. HORNER. Yes.

MR. ZIEGLER. Let me give you a brief idea of what the President has done, and then Jack will give you the quotes.

They left the White House at 4:55 and drove to the Lincoln Memorial. They arrived there at 5 o'clock. The President and Manolo went up into the Memorial, and the President pointed out the inscriptions on the wall above the Memorial to Manolo. And as they came out--correct me anywhere I am interpreting this incorrectly, Jack--came out of the Memorial, there were some eight students there. And he stopped and talked to them for almost an hour.

The crowd of students grew, as the President told and me, from eight to 30 and then he said about 50 by the end of the discussion. The President pointed out that one of the great things about the talk with the students was that there were no---forgive me---TV cameras or press there, so it gave them an opportunity to--

MR. HORNER. I will give them the quote when I come to it.

Q. Ron, what did he tell you about what he talked to them about?

Read more at the American Presidency Project: www.presidency.ucsb.edu http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=2496#ixzz1UOsHRNWU

Odd as he was, I despised him for expanding the war into Cambodia, his phony Paris peace talks, his "vietnamization" of the war and his callow declaration that the war was over. When I was outside West Point with a few dozen others protesting while Obama announced his surge, it all came back.

Some say a paranoid delusional.

Some simply called him a crook.

Daily. All year.

I remember that Tricky Dick was "not a crook." :eyes:

I remember celebrating his resignation.

but compared to the Repukes of today he was positively sane and likable.

He was a very fascist president in many ways. Wiretapping, enemies list, illegal invasions, the list is a long one.

However he was the architect of many domestic policies that are now considered moderately to radically liberal. The EPA, the Clean Air Act, OSHA, National Environmental Policy Act, enacted effective school desegregation, and supported the ERA are some of his leading domestic legacies.

Thus, while he was more liberal than Obama on some issues, overall I would say he was to the right of Obama.

Ike on the other hand is a different matter. He supported the New Deal and other such programs, expanding Social Security and Unemployment Insurance as well as raising the minimum wage. He was the penultimate Moderate Republican, and sadly, judging from his actions, Obama has moved to the right of him in many if not most areas.

and twice as dangerous.

He was a Machiavellian prick that had no respect for the constitution, worse than Reagan or even Jr. Bush. Nixon was not only a crook, he was an absolute political degenerate. As bad as future Repukes were, Nixon was the only one that could have seriously changed the country into fascist state. Review the enemies list news of the time and Nixon's plans to use the I.R.S. and any other federal security force to destroy those who wanted a free country.

However, he was to the left of POTUS Obama on domestic and economic issues and tied on war crimes.

I voted McGovern 1972 and supported McCarthy and then RFK in 1968 when I was still too young to vote and Humphrey, the hawk, was the D candidate.

Reality check is that Nixon was to the left of POTUS Obama.

People who are labeled as mainstream conservatives now would be dismissed as John Birchers 40 years ago. Meanwhile, Obama is a mere centrist.

but this thread reminded me of something I read long ago: that Nixon was focused on foreign policy and didn't really give a damn about domestic policy. Daniel Patrick Moynihan held a high position in the Nixon administration - Cabinet officer? ( I told you I didn't google this!)

There were a lot of liberals left in the bureaucracy after JFK and LBJ. A lot of liberal domestic policy initiatives got through because Nixon didn't give a rat's ass one way or another.

The wage and price thing? Left over from his job before he signed up for the Navy in WWII.

The one aspect that I would put forward as proof that Nixon was no liberal is that he was a consummate hater, looking for enemies under every table and holding grudges. He spent his entire life in resentment of the entire world, certain he'd been cheated at birth. Sort of like today's Tea party people.

That said, he had Nixon's ear as much as anyone on the staff. He had a good rep and a high profile at the time, and he gave the staff a certain "cachet" and prestige--made it look like Nixon picked people who were qualified (which was not always the case--he gave that fucker Cheney a job, too!). He wasn't In Like Flynn like Haldeman or Erlichmann, though, but few were. And you're right--Moynihan's schtick was urban issues, that was his area of expertise, and he probably wrote most of the "city" stuff that came out of the WH.

Your last paragraph is a great summation of the guy--a consummate hater, indeed. It's like he held a perpetual grudge against anyone and everyone for any reason, was always feeling dissed, couldn't take real pleasure in anything, was always angry and moody, and had an overactive inferiority complex! And yes--he's like the Tea Party bastards, always kvetching about everything!

yup

but I know I hated him and did vote for him.

It started with "Greetings"......

Two years later I came home from the US Army.

or is that ok now?

Check the number of Viet Namese dead. Read up on Cambodia's "Killing Fields", or watch the movie of that title. He created a police state here in the US (see COINTELPRO or "no-knock law"). He was a smarmy little Hitler-wannabe, who fancied himself a statesman. Oh, and he hated everybody.

Don't even get me started on Agnew. He was County Executive in my county when I was in 9th grade, by the time I graduated high school he had been Governor for a year and then was nominated for VP with Nixon. How corrupt do you think he'd have to be to pull off that fast rise? This may be what he received such a nice payoff for...

I happen to know that Agnew created the blueprint to destroy our public schools - because I was in the pilot program which he designed. My grade (of 3 classes @100 kids) did it for 2 years and it was an absurd backwards disaster (the conclusion of kids and teachers alike); lo and behold, by the 1970s it was being done across the nation. And now the schools are where they are. It's no accident - they were deliberately destroyed. Are good public schools necessary to a democracy? Yup. Still like these guys?


This song wasn't written out of some hypothetical fantasy, it was a real piece of the nightmare we were all living...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GXtQfXBAmM

Imagine 58,000 American combat dead in YOUR generation. Imagine if that many were getting killed right now in Afganistan/Iraq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zdH09mWVF8

Country Joe was a vet, and the song above (at Woodstock of course) was the beginning of the protest movement for a lot of people, most of whom had never heard it before btw. You can see at first, some don't even know how to react to it, or if they should dare to clap or stand up (post-JFK people learned to be "careful"). By the end of the song, it's a different story. Hyperbole. Whatever we can make fun of, we can defeat. The point was the unthinking hawkishness of the general population at the time - it was waaaaaayyyy worse then than it is now.

And then there's this - also not an irrelevant fantasy song, but a current reality we had no choice about living. It was a call to real resistance, and it was life-or-death...

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxA3Q96a8XE
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZOlYXLOVWg

Yeah, Nixon and Agnew were a couple of peachy-keen liberal guys, and it was lots of fun coming of age in the world they were rampaging over.

They were BOTH run out of office, for a reason.

I was there with you.

The only thing 'liberal' I can think of.

nt

I still hate Nixon. He was a lying, sneaky, paranoid, dangerous man. That said, some of his policies/decisions pertaining to economics and domestic policy would in today's would be considered lefty extremism by many.