Obama warned in May that he couldn't & wouldn't stand up to tea party Republicans

“You look for what the other side needs. You look for what you need,” said White House budget director Jacob J. Lew, describing Obama’s negotiation philosophy. “And you look for a solution where both can have honorable outcomes. You can’t vanquish each other.”

The White House was knee-deep in budget negotiations with Republican lawmakers one May afternoon when Senate Democrats boarded buses for a short ride down Pennsylvania Avenue for a face-to-face session with President Obama.

Seated in an auditorium, the senators pressed Obama on their key concern as talks heated up over raising the nation’s debt ceiling: How would he stand up to tea party Republicans?

To the dismay of many in the audience, Obama conceded that he probably couldn’t — and probably wouldn’t — push too hard because he was unwilling to risk a U.S. government default.

“I have no choice,” the president said, according to one participant.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-role-in-debt-ceiling-talks-scrutinized/2011/08/05/gIQAtADNxI_story.html

n/t

Sid

I've never seen him make a positive post or rec anything but posts that trash liberals. Funny that.

he owns up when he does it.

One would expect a zinger to ZING.

forever.

he's bugging me :P damn near tried to squish my laptop screen :P lol cept it wasn't moving right then figured it out. stupid nats. at least they don't go in my ear but if it's a real one it's gonna make a mess

Because like flies and the tides, even though you may not always see them, they are there, decaying your meat and washing away your sandcastles.

is smart?

Do you bargain that way?

But most people don't have to do what Obama's Handlers are asking of him.

You'd know this, were you among the numbers who venture over the the 911 forum...

when a first post that comes two minutes after an OP complains about unrecs, then it happens in 1000 other OPs, it gets tiring.

And a bit dishonest to boot: You were gonna unrec the OP anyway.

And what is it with whining so much about "whining?" :shrug:

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the whining about whining about whining? :)

Just for you

and no dog in this fight other than to bitch about unrec's.

I thought the commentary was excellent.

:silly:

whining that the first reply was a post whining about unrec.

And Kicky poo while I'm at it. ;-)

:rofl:

you're dithering again!
rec'd

Sid always dithers. It's a gentle reminder to pay homage to the Ditherer in Chief.

and kick for the God of Whine.

this is what it would sound like.

What this town needs is a good enema! Bwa-ha-ha-ha...

Why, it nearly KILLED him!

The topic of unrecs is so important? So much more important than the topic of Tea Party Republicans and our budget deficit that you feel you must completely sidetrack the thread to discuss the perceived indignity of an unrec on this OP? Oh, man.

screwn

I think we already knew this, but since some have yet to be convinced, maybe it's necessary to spell it out.

... was to push any chance at a default past the 2012 election.

As Stephen Colbert said about the GOP-- you know you won the negotiations when the other side's only demand is not to have to negotiate with you again for a long long time.

JAYSUS

He's the president, for f**k's sake!

he does what they say.

If the American citizens don't sweep this Teabagger insanity out of power, expect it to continue, or even worsen if they get a GOP president who goes along with them.

but people are literally gonna starve, go without medical attention, and/or die from policies our gentle president feels compelled to support. "Yes we can" make Republicans vote for something, ANYTHING, just by giving them 98% of what they want. Who knew THAT was the prize?

The teabaggers want to keep their tax cuts and wars and destroy the Government, we NEED our social security, medicare, and jobs. There isn't any middle ground there.

:applause:

No, sir, you had a choice. Unfortunately, you made the wrong one and now the rest of us will pay for it. Congrats.

He did have a choice and he chose to cave like he has on every single issue of importance.

Saying he had "no choice" was beyond weak, it was wimpy. I've never heard of a president saying that. He just gives up, over and over again.

Wrong place

The role of weak President. Any way you look at it, it is "mission accomplished". A second term is of no actual importance now because the same group will control the government, win or lose.

If Obama is just going to keep caving into the Republicans and Tea Party then he is irrelevant. A few weeks ago I got a fund raising phone call from the Democrats. I cited some of the recent incidents and pointed out that it is no longer a question of will the Republicans/Tea Party crash this country but when they will achieve their goal. I do not believe that there is anything that we can do to stop it.

He makes sure the priorities of his paymasters - the ultra rich - get done and F### the rest.

14th amendment, coin seigniorage and canceling the $1.6 Trillion we "owe" to ourselves.

Even suggesting that he would be willing to use any one of these could have given him enough leverage to get a clean bill passed and avoid the entire mess. He folded when he had a really strong hand.

either they ignore or they don't use it.

Whether that's indicative of larger support nationwide, I'm not sure, but I certainly would have.

Please exlain.

The President does not have the power to authorize public debt, and the 14th Amendment doesn't give it to him.

and the Fed and Treasury have the power to cancel debts owed to each other, both being agencies of the government.

Even if you don't like the 14th amendment option, there were alternatives.

Or even the just-silly-enough-to-work platinum coin one.

Knowledge of the facts.

thing by refusing to sign a bill that extended Bush tax cuts in 2009.

However, you might find it more convenient if they starve to death in the interim; I'm not sure.

That's exactly what I want.:eyes:

Keep making excuses for your idol while the country falls apart.

Obama first!

I'll admit that does look kind of fun

Primary Obama. He's worthless.

You gonna run the 2010 program again and expect a different result?

:rofl:

As certain as ending the Bush tax cuts, or including a public option, or enforcing the Doj's order for ES&S to diversify, or closing GITMO, or standing with unions, or ending the fucking wars...

When there are already some unemployed people who have long exhausted their unemployment benefits and are ineligible for extension - how are you taking care of those ones? If Obama had refused that Bush tax extension he would not have been rendered impotent in such a dramatic way by the teabaggers

You add something to the effect that he "had" to give them everything last December or they'd make a mess of everything.

He gave away the store in December, and they still went on to make a mess of things. And I don't think he cares. I think that is what his job is. Period.

... that you are impotent right before a war.

Even if the other side HAS NO HONOR?

Blah blah blah....

How about doing what's honorable for the country and its people... like ignoring those who don't live in the real world. (or at least not giving them power)

nt

:mad: or :cry:?

The "other side" bullshit -- really, President Obama?

REALLY?

Well then I have three words for you:

George. Fucking. Bu$h.

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opponents with physical obliteration. Absolutely mind numbing.

This man shouldn't be in politics at all. He's hopeless

and perhaps worse, he's installed in us a feeling of hopelessness
Proof: read all the 'who else are we going to vote for?' and 'the lesser of two evils' comments; and not just on DU, everywhere.

It shows how much the bar has been lowered when people resort to "who else are we going to vote for?" or "the lesser of two evils". Really, have we become so pathetic and our expectations diminished to such an extent that we have to take an "it could be worse" approach when choosing a president?

And you're spot on: he shouldn't be in politics. He's a rabbit, and we need a lion.

as a consolation, he got to get the ball rolling to eviscerate the big three. :patriot:

I wouldn't have spent months hoping he was going to stare them down for once.

Does his secret identity have a secret identity?
Oops, guess not any more.

Lol

:rofl: :silly: :crazy:

More balls than brains.

them that Obama had thrown in the towel already.

which is the real source of teabaggers and does the groundwork for everything the GOP does.

all the left has to do is stop ignoring it, do some protesting and boycotting of limbaugh stations and their sponsors and get our universities and pro sports team to pull out of those stations and the GOP will fall like a house of cards

I do agree though that the left got complacent. The whole groundswell of Obama supporters thought their work was done once he was elected. The real left should have kept loudly demanding single-payer etc.... Unfortunately when we do say anything the apologists complain. How are we ever to get Obama to move left of center if we don't make demands?

Also, the left is too nice and believes, rightfully although it does not serve us politically, that we should not tell others how to think and how to live their lives.

And centrists who are Obama apologists keep playing victim by saying it's because of the Republican House instead of taking responsibility and taking action. If you play victim you are saying you have no control over the outcome so why bother trying to change it.

I agree that we need to find a way to end that right wing attack radio but I also feel a lot of the blame is on the apologists who refuse to see clearly and who absolutely will not listen to any criticism and just play victim. If the apologists would support the Dem Party Platform as enthusiastically as they support Obama (right or wrong) maybe we could get some traction.

talk radio has been ponding the country for years with lies and exaggerations about 'socialized medicine' and it's 'failures' . the teabaggers screaming in those town halls were dittoheads who may have been bussed there by the koch bros but they learned their lines years ago. it worked because the right had already stacked the deck and the left was just reacting to an alternate reality established with years of coordinated repetition that only worked because it was unchallenged. if all the talkers tell the same lies from 1000 radio stations that also provide university and pro sports and no one challenges them in real time the lies become truth by sheer weight.

criticism is needed but if it is, for instance, based on the assumption that obama has the bully pulpit or that he could be messaging better, they'd be wrong. the RW messaging machine can go over just about anything obama does, whether it takes days, or weeks, or months. the think tanks spot it and devise a response and then talk radio kicks it off because no other medium can do it better.

and nothing moves the perception of where the center is better than 1000 coordinated radio stations. there is no bigger PC cop and censor-by-threat. it has a lot to do with determining what is and isn't acceptable in mainstream. all limbagh and hannity have to do is mention a name a few times with the right amount of disgust and hate and the screaming dittoheads go to work.

The stupids have voices too.

show that most people are for raising taxes on the rich? For Medicare? For so many things that rw radio rails against?

But again, I totally agree that we need to take it on somehow, I just don't think we can blame the whole thing on that machine. The left plays a large part in all of it by not being as vocal and by being unwilling to stand up to the right. And I mean all the people as well as the politicians. Not just Obama, although he certainly should be calling out the lying rw politicians at press conferences, but also Reid who lets them simply say the word filibuster to make him back down.

The right may be wrong on policy but they have the cojones that the left just doesn't have. And the more we play victim the less we will fight back since we think it's impossible to do anything just because the Republicans have one of three branches of govt.

And speaking of rw radio... is Rush still on the Armed Forces radio? That is disgusting. They should put Thom Hartmann on to balance that out if they keep Rush.

issue they need. the dittoheads are easy to rile up and point like a gun to intimidate ( blue dogs, media, weak reps, etc>) and they're loud and well coordinated.

politicians can be bought but they start to stink unless they have a constituency they can point to to enable those votes. now the whole republican party is like that. the republican owned media that wants tax breaks and deregulation is also happy to exaggerate the popularity and authenticity.

limbaugh and hannity are the republican cojones, and they're only seem big because they have call screeners to protect them and paid callers to fondle them.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-1-2011/dealageddon----a-compromise-without-revenues
The kid in the Bow Tie lays out the whole scam,
last DECEMBER!!!!

Watch our President's body language and clipped response.
The pertinent segment of this clip begins at 4:25.
This has haunted me since I saw the video last week.
That kid Laid Out the Whole SCAM!




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it would seem that they'll have a significant amount of leverage over the WH, what do you mean?"

Then...

"I'll take John Boehner at his word, that nobody, Democrat or Republican, is willing to see the full faith and credit of the US Govt. collapse."

I think the only nice way to explain this is incompetence and naivete. It really demonstrates why he is such a bad negotiator. He doesn't even understand what leverage is!

Bullshit.


The ONLY GOAL of the Reich-wing is to vanquish YOU Mr. president and remove you from office.



You really are naive.

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in the audacity of hope.

Just pitiful.

And we need the Obama apologists to embrace that if they don't want us to continue to move to the extreme right.

When they say no more taxes we say 100% tax. And don't budge.

When they say no health care reform we say single-payer, no negotiating.

etc, etc, etc...


We can't keep taking Obama's path without doing that. We're playing tug of war without pulling on our side. And the only thing that will come of that is more Republican policies being enacted by a Democratic president.

Another beautifully executed 50-dimensional chess play. He has the GOP exactly where he wants them!

Now, watch this drive...

One has to wonder, what is the end game? Only in DU land.

He can do that all on his own. History will not be kind to this President.

I don't think a lot of posters at DU really understand things.

Is Obama insane? He can't actually believe such guidelines for dealing with Republicans, can he? No wonder we're in trouble.

He's on the GOP's side.

He's still trying to keep as many of us from figuring it out as possible, so he says shit like that.

If you assume Obama's a smart, decent guy trying to fix what's broken, you end up watching and listening to him and saying, "WHY? HOW? WTF?"

But if you assume he's not on our side, there's no mystery at all.

So which is more likely?

when I say things like "he works for the other side." So I've stopped saying it. Doesn't mean I've stopped thinking it.

I had figured that:

1) he was either corrupt or
2) stupid (which we know he isn't

But maybe he is insane?

He somehow thinks that when seventy percent of a group wants black and thirty percent want white, that giving them grey will make everyone happy. Even when polls show that everyone hates grey.

After Pearl Harbor was attacked by air, Obama would have turned over the islands to the Japanese before their navy had a chance to launch a land invasion.

to piss off the messiah fellators...

RL

But first, you have to argue and advocate for what you want without any intention to compromise.

That is the way bargaining is done.

I would not hand Obama $5 and send him out to buy from a street vendor in any developing country. He does not understand how to bargain, how to buy and sell in and open market.

Unbelievably naive for a man who lived part of his life (early years admittedly) in Indonesia. Just beyond comprehension.

to try to derail the train before it runs over the baby tied to the tracks a quarter of a mile further on. He will wave a white hankie from the verge, but he will risk nothing for the sake of others.

Fortunately the French Resistance, among many, did not have that same fastidious, ego centric view of how to over come an adversary.

I'm not all that hard on him. I think he was promised he'd be allowed some incremental changes which would give him a legacy.

We cannot know what the powers in charge have told him. Even the money situation may be worse. But i think he's scared for his family. He shouldn't be. He should tell the truth.

the Republicans were in disarray and down. If things had been played right they would have been wondering if the wilderness for the next forty years. Now we have a president offering up programs that are the main stays and heart of the Democratic Party. How did we ever get here? I have pondered and thought about this and the only thing I can reason is that we have elected an incognito republican.

For 8 years many of you fought hard against that monstrosity called the Bush Administration because Herr Bush acted as if he was God Emperor of the United States and Wingnuttia (among literally hundreds of other shitty things). One of the main arguments against Herr Bush was that he must go because in the United States we have a representative government (in theory), the Executive should not act as if his/her word alone is law, and that an "Imperial Presidency" is not only wrong but fundementally against everything this Republic stands for. So fast forward to today, and President Obama does not have an "Imperial Presidency" and tries his best (mostly) to work with in the confines of the Constitution and y'all treat him as a scapegoat for everything that is wrong. Forget that we had a Democratic controlled Congress for two years that was scared of it's own shadow and have had a batshit crazy House of Representatives for the last year hellbent on destroying our country. The President is not an emperor and will not be working outside the limits of his office (mostly) that was set forth by his election. Instead of using the President as a scapegoat, perhaps y'all need to get off your butts, stop posting on the Internet, and get to work fighting for Democratic principles in the streets like our forefathers.

Creating a super congress does imply to me that our President has intentions of working outside the limits of his office....

He was telling us that they would willingly destroy our country to get power. And they would. Look at what's happening now with the Asian markets. And that is just from the prolonged debt ceiling debacle. Imagine if we had defaulted.

It's going to be a crazy ride as it is. I know this isn't popular on here right now, but I support the President.

and are now unhappy with Obama for the exact same reason.

just to drive some people upthread crazy

That is what this administration has come to personify.

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This insistence that things are one way and one way ONLY is really pretty creepy. It's VERY like the Oppressor.

...and how he's too much of a wussy to live up to the central focus of what he campaigned on and
the primary reason that unprecedented numbers of voters voted for him?

You said you'd change things. WTF is the problem? Did you think it would be easy?

What a crock of crap.

once and for all.

What this says is that you've not ever made hard ones. Many of us find this out too late.

compromising with Repugs -- !!

Ought to have stayed in community organizing in Chitown or Constitutional Law at Chicago University Law School...Horrible negotiator, and worse under pressure.