We fell for their attacks against Clinton; now we're falling for their attacks against Obama

Joan Walsh was a supporter of Hillary Clinton in 2008 who thinks progressives are being too hard on Obama today.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/2008_elections/index.html?story=/opinion/walsh/politics/2011/08/10/mistakes_of_2008_primary

I've already written about why I think liberals pondering "buyers' remorse" over Obama is useless and divisive. My discussion with Melber and my Facebook friend made me realize something else. One of my primary complaints about Obama supporters in 2008 was the way so many blamed the Clintons for the GOP crusade against them, as though Republicans would have played fair if only the unethical Clintons hadn't given them Whitewater, Travelgate and most notably, sex scandals. That was unfair to the Clintons, and it was also naive. It hugely underestimated the ferocity of modern-day GOP attack politics. Now I find myself wondering if progressives are over-focused on Obama's perceived shortcomings when it comes to dealing with Republicans, because we likewise don't want to deal with the amoral political savagery of the enemy he faces.

I know: Amoral political savagery is pretty strong. I think it's fair. Just Tuesday Rush Limbaugh, the head of the Republican Party, said the London rioters are "the equivalent of Obama voters in this country." Way to go, Rush! That's false, racist and unspeakably ugly all at the same time. One after another of the GOP presidential candidates has come out against the debt-ceiling deal -- and then they blame the president for the S&P downgrade their own intransigence triggered. Likewise, Republicans accused Bill Clinton of everything from murder to drug-running to betraying the American military, while one philanderer after another pushed for his impeachment over a sexual indiscretion.

SNIP

I think many on the left anointed Obama the only progressive in the race out of a rescue fantasy. But it's possible people who want to see Obama face a primary -- and I do not, as I've said too many times to count -- have the same fantasy with a different, as yet unnamed savior. It gives progressives a sense of control: It's not that Republicans are better organized than we are, or that they'll fight Democrats by any means necessary; it's our fault that we somehow chose the wrong candidate. At least we might have it in our power to make better choices. But I think it's time to reckon with the fact that no matter whom we choose, Rush Limbaugh and his Republican Party will do whatever it takes to see them fail.

I've never condemn or hated on him. I think that the job he has must be one of the hardiest jobs there is in America.

the big boys won't hire you. So since they won't hire me, I guess I'm stuck on no representation.:shrug:

:eyes:

Obama's own actions are the source of my anger with him. I'm pretty confident that the Progressives on this board are more then capable of thinking for themselves.

I do wish, however, that more would take the time to express their thinking in their own words, instead of merely quoting someone from FDL or elsewhere. Some do, of course, write their own reasoning down, but there is an overabundance of uncommented third-party opinion posted on DU.

There are so many BLUE links, lists, quotes and other links from ones that hate FDL & other quotes that your slip is showing, it's hanging below your skirt.

Nice try at being coy in your criticism though. But it really is a fail.

I post my opinion and my ideas. Please do not confuse me with any other DUer.

I am quite capable of thinking for myself. My current negative opinion of Obama's motives is based upon reasonable inferences from his actions and inactions.

So the question is, "How wrong?" And "How do we avoid making them MORE wrong?"

to think that all in the world would be good again after 3 years of Obama...Obama said it would take a long time and happen in baby steps on the night he won the election...liberals want everything NOW! We also don't realize that a president is not a king and cant make laws on his own and therefore must work with the congress given to him by the people...GET OUT AND VOTE!

Sooner or later, there's no more steps backward to go.

we really went backwards www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com NOT!

the first 2 years were propganda? HAHAHAHA...this is a crazy place :-(

And, I wanna work for THAT promo company. Seriously, if he brought all the troops home tomorrow it would be "propoganda". If he found a way to make Republicanism illegal and put them all in prison, it would be "propoganda". There is little logic here.

you are one scary person and COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL...what has happened to DU? They don't believe in facts that are right in front of them...hahaha!

I think you conflate propaganda with 'things you don't agree with.' I'm pretty sure there's a precise and relevant difference between the two.

Now their latest hero is Matt Damon.

projected out onto others, onto "Daddy" in this case but it can be anyone anything; too much is externalized without a well developed authentic/honest organic sense of who you really are and how you uniquely and powerfully participate in making the world what it is, every last bit of it, everything big and small, thorns and all.

They have morons believing things like the media is liberal and so much more.

Americans are gullible and have very short memories.

It's unbelievable that they think it is some kind of tax loop hole that the poor use to get out of paying taxes. Well the poor have some income tax it. I swear the tea bagged GOP want a feudal society thinking they aren't going to be serfs to the royal family of the Koch's but their equals.

That about sum it up?

Yeah. Not buying it.

:eyes:

I have my problems with Obama but it isn't based on anything Republicans say or do. I blame him for not keeping his word. He promised he would shut down Gitmo, he did not. He promised he would not renew the Bush* tax cuts, he did. He promised he would get us out of Iraq, he did not and is not going to. I am unhappy that he allows Republicans to get 98% of all they want and Democrats 0%..Where is the Republican attack in any of these issues?

and it was the only way to get them extended. You're blaming him for this as if he had a real choice.

because Richardson was talking the straight-shit about getting the troops home YESTERDAY, ALL of them.

After that I was listening to Edwards most closely because he was starting the discussion about Economic Justice. When he went out, I started listening to Obama. I KNOW EXACTLY WHOM I VOTED FOR.

Obama did not say ALL of those troops out of Iraq. He ALWAYS said he was going to bring most of them home and there was going to be "a presence". Here at the DU we talked about it and decided that the most optimistic estimate of that presence was going to be something around 15K. Obama WAS straight about that "maintenance" force IN Iraq.

that absurd vote to extend the BTCs for the Middle Class, right as Unemployment, DADT and The Dream Act were in the Senate. It was a train wreck. There was never any way in hell that the MC BTCs were going to get extended without the Rich BTCs. What was Pelosi doing?

Pelosi chose the wrong play, when she should have shown Democrats STRONG ON THE ECONOMY and ready to embrace the sunset of the BTCs, even though that wasn't going to succeed either because of the other stuff in front of Congress right then. It WOULD have sent a LOUD message about REVENUES that would have reverbrated right up to the Deficit Cap debate. Instead Pelosi did Arianna's little pony play and the groundwork for the Deficit Cap debate was destroyed, not to mention throwing DADT into Joe LIEberman's lap and getting The Dream Act (which SOME of us were all fired up and working on, btw) tabled.

The President has his part in that train-wreck, but so do Pelosi and Reid. Pelosi in particular; WHAT WAS SHE DOING?????

'no matter whom we choose, Rush Limbaugh and his Republican Party will do whatever it takes to see them fail.'

Really shouldn't take so long to recognize this, and 'we're' supremely foolish for not having done so sooner.

If they're going to do whatever it takes and never be satisfied, then why reach your bloody stump out in compromise? (They already bit both hands off during previous attempts)

people to comprehend what your preaching!

When the simple fact of the matter is that Obama simply doesn't fight, and we are all paying the price for it.

I don't come by this opinion via the GOP, or because I thought Obama was the great progressive savior(far from it). I come by this opinion the old fashion way, observation. One has but to look at Obama's record.

So it's OK that Obama folds before anyone selects the game, much less deals the cards.

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:rofl:

There is no question that Obama faces (at least) amoral political savagery but he rolls over and takes it, pretends the opposition is a loyal and well intentioned partner in governing with whom he has minor disagreements with in a few areas, and worst of all is credible and largely correct.

Playing punk to bullies just makes them double down on horrid behavior. Legitimizing absurdity means nutts is the new sane. Agreeing with the opposition says they are correct.

Liberals are too damn soft on this President, he is rehabbing the destroyed Republican brand (despite their (mightiest efforts to keep trashing it) and destroying ours which will leave little else but a "centrist" (see corporatist) governing class.

Obama's politics are dangerous, stupid, and pushing traitorous in dealing with a relentless adversary with an appetite like a black hole.
He is helping them dig our graves in a false show of magnanimity. False since it is our asses that he is so generous with not his own.

People need to get out of this childish, he isn't the great liberal BS and deal with reality as it exists.

He is not perfect, and I was deeply disappointed by the cave on the Bush tax cuts.

But, he has been a good president, at worst.

As such, he deserves the FULL support (not unquestioned, but, feel free to interject with false frames) of all democrats.

And, people here, at democratic underground, have simply lost their damn minds to fall in line with marginalizing him as the republicans have in saying he is weak, and people have lost their damn minds if they REALLY think the democrats are the same as the republicans.

That simply does not give credit to just how off the rails the other team is.

Ds are not great shakes, sad, but true.

But, they are INFINITELY better than the alternative.

And, BO is INFINITELY better than the R we will be condemned to if our team continues to put bullets into him like the other team does. And, there is no great progressive, liberal savior who can beat BO in a primary then win the general election. You are in living in a complete fantasy world if you think that is going to happen.

needed to send a message that we'd FIGHT for REVENUES/TAX INCREASES. Instead, with that vote to extend MC BTCs in the House, we got an out of synch team that ended up saying they were afraid to deal with the issue of tax increases AS THEY APPROACHED THE DEFICIT CAP FIGHT.

it was bad ...

He is not perfect, and this area has been a disappointment.

But, he is good to pretty darn good in other areas.

Bottom line remains, he is the ONLY D who can win the presidency in 2012.

People can get behind him or be part of making Rick Perry the next president.

:puke:

she's a hack!

Bizarre. :hi:

Nor any other Dem I know.

Contrary to some authors' opinions, it IS possible to disagree with the POTUS' policies even if they're Dems.

Democrat Message: GOP Sucks!
Progressive response: Yeah, but Democrats Suck!

This influences people who don't pay attention to politics. It's no wonder people vote GOP.

That's why Cenk left the channel. He wanted flexibility of thought.

MSNBC has a line, and wants its members to follow that line strictly. Chris Matthews knows this. Matthews trashed Bill Clinton (but Walsh won't tell you that). Now Chris is Obama's #1 fan. Because MSNBC wants it that way.

That's why Cenk was not a good fit.

The Administration has put out the word to their media "friendlies" to tamp down the grassroots dissent. Well, I suspect it isn't going to work this time around. You can only abuse and crap on people so long before they decide that they're "mad as hell...and not going to take it anymore."

Sorry Obama, no dice in 2012.

J

while they slide measures into place that will impoverish ALL of us.

We are so easy to rule.

Depress voter turnout and let republicans win another election. Then people will finally get fed up and vote Kucinich!

And as long as people keep doing it, we will keep moving further rightward.

that you are doing exactly what you are accusing the other person of.

Do you claim 100% revolutionary purity? What is your justification for doing so?

If not, what might be your own tendency to do what you ASSUME killbot is doing?

Anything I say about this kind of stuff is based upon recognition of the same processes in my own thinking, so I'm willing to admit up front that I am a slave to a certain degree. The questions are about how much, when, and under what circumstances. Can you do that? because that has to be the starting point for authentically revolutionary relationships.

And what on earth is "100 percent revolutionary purity"?

I am not alluding to any shadowy conspiracy that may or may not be the figment of my imagination. I am observing our political process and the documented behavior of this President, his administration, and the Congress over the past several years.

It's not that hard.

you either can't/don't/won't think of those alternatives.

You are falling for a FALSE DICHOTOMY = "It's either two corporate parties or it's not." When, in fact, it's not what anyone else says it is, it is whatever YOU make of it and Chomsky has always said that. You can buy into that game and dance THEIR "it's either this or that" tune all you want and all anyone will ever do is repeat the SAME BULLSHIT with different labels on it.

Please read George Lakoff, Paulo Freire (on "true words" and "praxis), or Noam Chomsky on propaganda in general.

s" or the ODD traits of so-called "liberals" - You can find plenty of people who want to cut taxes, but don't want their particular subsidy touched. Or who think WAR is just fine, but don't want anyone in their family to go.

PEOPLE ARE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS. It's the OPPRESSOR'S BULLSHIT that says "this is this and that is that and never the twain shall meet." WRONG everything in reality is much more complicated than TPB want you to think it is.

Thank you. We need to stop blaming Obama and figure out how to counter the intransigence of the GOP.
I think the place to begin is a very well-crafted narrative that we bludgeon the media with. We need clear talking points that not only strengthen our strategies but completely undercut the GOP. The one thing they care about is power. The only way to take it away from them is to show the people of this country how directly dangerous and harmful the GOP policies and strategies are for the country, for jobs, and for the regular people. Exhibit A: the debt ceiling debacle and the intransigence on raising revenue.

can't


think . ........... ....... ..........for





myself.......



right wing mind control toooooooooooo

powerfulllllllllllllllllll.............

got a mouse in your pocket??

Though I will concur with her that a lot of liberals/progressives fell for the campaign sales pitch and thought him a liberal because of those swell slogans.

whenever he could. Still waiting for Obama to do that. Check your pocket for a mouse.

of a young child who committed suicide.

instead of over in the corner. Nevermind, I think I'll try a couple of things I know how to do.

.................

I do remember the face and the story, but what was his name?

There's been so much suicide posted on this board lately.

the Duer who gave it to me gave me instructions on how to do it. Justin was a young boy who was bullied for being gay.

We mustn't forget. Thanks for your help.

...To blame the Democrats and Give Republicans a free pass again and again.

But the way Obama has been treated by Republicans and Democrats alike is pretty unusual.
Is it not a shocking contrast to remember that the previous unelected president was treated with respect?

Someone yells out "you lie" at the state of the union address
Anthony Weiner called the president and flat-out lied to him for all the world to see.

People unabashedly say that they want the president to fail.

Then there are the endless accusations that Obama is a closet republican, etc....

There are ways to respectfully criticize but so many people seem comfortable outright bashing and accusing the president of ulterior motives.

Don't know if this is just a new way of treating presidents, but really- has there been a time in our history when a president has been so blatantly disrespected by office holders and constituents?

Even the previously hated president who was there under questionable circumstances received more respect than Obama.

needs to speak out against his critics (D&R alike) as Harry Truman did to the repukes ages ago.

Use that damn bully pulpit to dish it right back, to fight dammit!

nor would they change the minds of people who he is trying to court to meet him halfway. My experience with human nature tells me that when people get defensive they only dig in and are more deeply entrenched in their absolutes. He was not elected to save the world or single handedly create a liberal American utopia.
Presidents are elected to do a job. Unless they decide to regularly behave unilaterally (like the previous president) the only role they can take with the legislative process is to act as a broker- and that involves compromise.
I think he is under much more scrutiny than either Bush or Clinton.

Obama is no Clinton, and Joan Walsh is a hack.

Clinton did not continue the voodoo economics of RRR & GHWB.

Though he was clearly DLC (and with Hillary and Lieberman one of its founders!!), he started off with a focus on the economy that was good. But all his good was undermined by his bad: NAFTA, rescinding Glass-Steagall (pushed by his treasury sec'y Goldman Sacher Robert Rubin, by retained Fed Chair Alan Greenspan and by repuke adversary Phil Gramm) and Welfare Deform, to name a few.

Still, Clinton left us with a surplus and warned the GWB usurpers about the threat of terrorism.

By contrast, BHO has continued bad economic policies, has expanded wars and has focused on cutting the deficit in stupid ways.

Bill knew how to use the bully pulpit. BHO isn't worth listening to any more since his words and actions are so disparate.

BHO turned on us!

I mean, do you REALLY believe that shit? You really think that this guy came from where he came from, as an African American, and faced the most disgusting tidal wave of American racism I have ever seen in history, and he did all of this to "turn on" you?

Give me a fucking break. I don't think the ones who think he has "turned" on are that fucking important.

He is facing a juggernaut of capitalism, elites, corporate giants, more money than you could possibly imagine, and all of the history of White racism in the U.S.

Do you really believe that "he turned on us" shit?

Because I am wondering if that is being disingenuous by at least some. I am wondering if all of these super duper "I am such a Holy Progressive"-types are really all that they claim to be when they come here and try to unseat a Democratic President with the bones this one has.

Are they really thinking that? Methinks they doth protest too much.

Methinks hey doth protest to much.

extended,and the debt deal no loop holes close,no added revenue only cuts!

He fought and fought and fought against the Republicans on the tax cuts and the debt ceiling charade, meanwhile the gelatinous goo that is known as Harry Reid was drafting legislation with cuts only, and the Pelosi Disaster was lost in mid-sentence, unable to articulate a single fucking thought from the House floor, to the point that it was beyond embarrassing, it was like watching a train wreck.

Obama had to step in and fight because the Democratic whores who are supposed to be our leaders in Congress were too busy kowtowing to the Republicans.

You make it sound like, (a), Obama came up with the idea of the Bush tax cuts and the Republican deficit charade, rather than inveighed against it until the final hours; and (b) Obama has a magic wand that he can wave and suddenly all of the Republican Party, its corporate, monied and powerful base, and all of the nuts on AM radio and in the redneckosphere will suddenly fall into line.

I mean, come on, man. Grow up.

too but unlike BHO, I remember real in your face, you're not allowed in stores, restaurants, parks... de jure and de facto RACISM! Lynching racism!

Obama was born in 1961 and one reason many of those who went through the Civil Rights era, who were in the trenches, initially opposed him was because he didn't understand what he was up against. They were right; he's no fighter and he stands for NOTHING.

And yes, he turned his back on his campaign promises to us, to the people. So spare me your:"Do you really believe that 'he turned on us' shit?"

He's weak, ineffectual and either of completely questionable character or stupid or insane because he keeps doing the same thing and expecting a different result (perhaps he's feigning that expectation).

Whatever, he has let Americans who supported him -- whether fervently or half-heartedly -- down. He has turned on the people who supported him with their hard earned donations, their work on the campaign and their votes at the polls!

Well said c.

Can you believe this shit?

That's the point. We want someone who will actually fight for what we know will solve this country's problems. It's not hard to understand.

I like Obama a LOT. But he's not being effective. It's even more frustrating because he DOES have to skills it takes. And we don't get windows of opportunity a dime a dozen.

...but in the end, that's all it is. Her opinion.

I've been around as long as she has, so I'll stick with my own take on things, thank you very much. I believe she's dead wrong.

I'm sick of being taken for a fool by politicians. I'm sick of the stupid lies.

I don't care where they come from, nor no matter which letter it is they have after their name.

All. Of. Them.

- It's too damned late in the inning for more bullshit. People need to wake the hell up.....

Much of this Obama-is-conservative/remove Obama/third party nonsense is the result of a desire for control when things don't turn out the way they want. It is the result of the attempted resolution of the following two statements:

a) I want X.
b) I'm not getting X.

Most people eventually realize that there is a difference between wanting something and ever getting it (usually at a young age). But some do not accept that, and try to come up with something they can do to get X (even if such a thing does not exist in reality). They know they can't control the Republicans, so they pretend that the problem isn't the Republicans but rather the Democrats. They resolve do, well, something, like trying to "primary Obama" or "vote Nader" or whatever. And then when the next candidate in some future election disappoints them just as much, and the next, and the next, they continue to believe that this was just another candidate problem.

Why? Because that gives them a feeling of control, when in reality they have none (with respect to getting X). Candidate problems can (as the theory goes) be fixed with another candidate, so every problem to them becomes a candidate problem. (Some take this a step further, and think there is a party problem, and get similar successive failures for decades by trying a different party.) Never do they consider that maybe the problem is that they will never be getting X regardless of the candidate, or that in order to get X, something needs to change that is completely unrelated to the candidate. Because that would imply a state of affairs that doesn't include their having control, which apparently ipso facto makes it an invalid description of reality.

In any case, good point. Do we really want to focus too much on Obama's shortcomings, when the GOP is 100x worse?

She was fairly critical of his performance, saying that his non-partisan strategy was getting tired and peopel are looking for something different from him.