On electoral fraud

it exists... period. In politics there is also this perception is reality.

I know some folks really want to believe our electoral system is not compromised. Bradblog has done yeoman's work

http://bradblog.com/

And our elections are compromised these days for DIFFERENT reasons than they were in the past

No, we are not going to win every election... that be delusional thinking, but to discount the concerns because well, it could not happen here is actually part of the problem.

We have plenty of evidence that this crap, together with a slew of methods to DEPRESS turn out work. We also know that one party in the modern period is far more responsible than the other.

And yes, voting these days is an act of faith... and again, it has all to do with ones and zeroes and not well monitored elections.

There are more than just a few people here who know this. It is not a conspiracy in the bad way, alas it is a conspiracy.

And we need to wake up to this reality, and then we can change what some of you may see as a perception...

That is all.

And Brad is indeed, one of the best sourcs and investigative reporters around today- by far.

Every time we vote on electronic machines manufactured by corporations with political agendas that do not permit anyone to access their source codes, you can be sure there is some rigging going on. A point or two off top in a few districts here and there. Easy to do, impossible to trace (unless someone could access the source codes or there were ample sample ballot testings taking place). Coupled with the massive disenfranchisement taking place in many locations using a variety of different processes- some of them seemingly legal. Then there are well funded attempts to confuse voters about voting locations or election day timing. Sometimes missing ballots show up mysteriously after the election has been called. We've had investigators find hundreds of ballots thrown in to trash bins here in Florida and elsewhere.

The list goes on and on. But until we start DEMANDING verifiable elections and refusing to vote on non=-verifiable machines, we can and should never, ever, trust the results of our elections.

rather than running with every accusation of voter fraud after a lost election like those words came from the mouth of god? Is that reasonable?

How about in a specific state, such as here in Wisconsin, when people here who know the truth and facts do not see the voter fraud in specific instances that those from afar claim to see and know about?

It's foolish to disbelieve that the Republicans do not engage in voter fraud because clearly the do. It is equally as foolish to believe in the validity of each and every accusation that is so casually made of voter fraud after a close or important election loss.

the wild it raises concerns. Even if they pull it back two hours later. I wish I could explain this to you, but it has all to do with ones and zeroes and how impossible it is to prove.

Maybe you could dumb it down for us morans?
Use one syllable words please.

Sid

It's election fraud. The voters are not the perpetrators. Words matter.

accordingly, and thanked EOTE for the red pen... I can use it at times.

:thumbsup:

with the Citizens United decision. Fair fights are NOT what republicans do.


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and we probably will end that way... how long... I have no idea. Either that or we wake up, collectively, and do something about it.

in this country, using 'TRADE SECRET' programming code in all voting machines and tabulation systems, with virtually no audit/recount controls. It is a fact.

Make of it what you will. But there is not a single public official in this country who can prove that he or she was actually elected. The "proof" is not obtainable.

In my opinion, until we fix this--by "we the people" demanding the restoration of PUBLIC vote counting--we are going to see our country pushed further and further to the far right, until it falls right off the cliff into fascism and nazism. We are perilously close to it right now. A few more 'TRADE SECRET' code-rigged elections and our democracy will truly be over and not recoverable, possibly forever.

With 'TRADE SECRET' code and, in half the states, NO AUDIT AT ALL, and in the other half, a miserably inadequate 1% audit, the powers that can now easily--EASILY!--change election outcomes don't have to rig every election, and would certainly be stupid fools if they did. No, this is an immense power, in a very few hands--indeed, 80% of the voting machines in the country are now controlled by one, far rightwing-connected corporation (ES&S, which bought out Diebold)--has been used with considerable cunning, combined with other black magic tricks such as "writing the narrative" (how one of the most progressive states in the U.S. "elected" the most fascist governor in our history). However, what I see now is increasing boldness in the use of this awesome, illegitimate and nation-wrecking power, such as presenting us with the most unrepresentative congress in our history--this Scumbag Congress. No way they were "elected"! I don't believe it. But, you know, it isn't supposed to be a matter of "belief." In a democracy, you MUST be permitted to SEE the votes counted. That is the bottom line of democracy. And it's gone!

If I were running this 'TRADE SECRET' system, a mixed bag of results, with a few Dem victories but with the far RW still in control of WI's government, and the impression that it was all very close, would be exactly what I would do--first of all, to prevent suspicion of these all-important 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines, and, secondly, to discourage--wear out, ravage, disempwer--a genuine peoples' revolt. 'Just keep trying, folks! Maybe we'll count all your votes some day--ha-ha-ha! Spend all your money! Turn your lives upside down! Ruin your health! Maybe even get so exhausted you start bickering with each other! Meanwhile, BELIEVE, HAVE FAITH that we didn't fiddle these numbers with our 'TRADE SECRE' programming code, that you, dummies, are forbidden by corporate-written laws to review!'

Joke's on us. Truly.

too many actually, still think the system is non corruptible. The difference between my voting history in Mexico and here, is that even at the polls we made jokes as to who and how the ballot stuffing was going to happen. We still voted, but voters were very aware that the elections were corrupt. You do not need to steal every precinct... that be stupid and give your hand away. But you have to steal the necessary number.

THose ones and zeroes make it that much easier than having to physically stuff the box.

And it is so MUCH easier that it flips democracy over into non-democracy.

INVISIBLE, with the public barred from SEEING it. We don't have the right to see it--by corporate-written law!

SIMPLE--a few lines of self-erasing code (as opposed to people/organization needed to print/falsify/stuff ballots).

ANONYMOUS--who writes the code? It's from a PRIVATE company.

REMOTE--can be done in another state, even in another country!

AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT--hand-counting real ballots takes TIME, and every second of that time, the criminals are vulnerable to exposure.

MASSIVE VOTE-FLIPPING--millions of votes can be changed--across whole states, across the entire country.

UNVERIFIABLE--half the states do NO audit AT ALL (they have NO paper trail--no ballot to compare machine totals TO).

UNVERIFIED--the other half have a ballot but only 1% of them are counted; 99% of them uncounted--totally inadequate audit.

THE CULTURE OF SECRECY, adopted from private corporations, infesting the system: public excluded, public can't get information, public can't get a recount (corporate-written laws making recounts very expensive, limited and rare; the public--the voters-- often have no legal standing; the tradition of volunteer poll workers guarding the process destroyed; citizen participation destroyed: only 'experts' can participate (--this has actually been USED--"you're not an expert"--by an election official TO a citizen who actually DID have expertise; you have to be an 'expert' and you have to be either paid by a private corporation or on the public tit, to have any say).

ENDEMIC CORRUPTION--lavish lobbying of election officials and legislators; huge, unnecessary expense to the public treasury (e-voting very costly).

-------------------------

What we are really looking at is a coup d'etat. Its date is October 2002 (same month as the "Iraq War Resolution") when the Anthrax Congress appropriated 3.9 billion dollars of your money and mine to spread these ELECTION THEFT MACHINES all over the country, very quickly and in time for the 2004 (s)election: Bush-Cheney kept in power despite war lies, torture, outing of CIA agents, theft of billions of dollars to private war 'contractors' and other outrages). In that (s)election, e-voting was used in combination with other fraud--such as purges of black voters from the voting rolls. The e-voting system is now complete, locked down everywhere, even New York--the last holdout--so that no VISIBLE acts of election fraud are even needed any more!

And the "black-holing" of this matter in the corporate 'news' media is a measure of how profound this coup d'etat is. The corporate 'news' makes sure people remain ignorant of the "privatization" of the vote count, and writes the "narrative" for fraudulent rightwing 'victories' and 'victories' for war, torture, treason, mind-boggling theft and corporate rule.

You know it and I know it--and some few others know it--and MILLIONS suspect it--so it WILL be widely known, understood and changed some day, and revolutions such as that CAN happen quickly, seemingly overnight, once the truth "goes viral," as they say. Easier to do, these days, with electronics, ironically enough.

And we do have models of transparent vote counting to the south of us, in Latin America. Venezuela, for instance, uses electronics, but it is an OPEN SOURCE CODE system--anyone may review the code by which the votes are tabulated--and they do a whopping 55% audit (five times the minimum needed to detect fraud in an electronic voting system). Compare to our system: 'TRADE SECRET' code and, at best, 1% audit and half the states with NO audit. Honest elections are WHY there are now LEFTIST (majorityist) governments in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala and other places--with nearly a clean sweep for the Left in South America. (Chile will be next--its RW president is going down--but Colombia is a blood-soaked, RW disaster, made far worse by the Bush Junta, of course--and may take the rest of the century to recover, if it ever does).

Latin America is getting its "New Deal" now, due to transparent vote counting. Our "New Deal" is being destroyed, due to NON-transparent vote counting. The method of vote counting is the difference. They, too, have rancid corporate media and filthy political money (lots of it from our own pockets--USAID funding of RW groups and causes all over LatAm). Transparent vote counting gives "the people" a chance against "organized money" (as FDR put it). It means that grass roots organizing CAN WIN. "The people" can OUT-VOTE "organized money." The Peoples' blood, sweat and tears on election activism will not be in vain! Good leaders CAN be elected. And LatAm is showing us what a difference good leaders can make. For instance, the LatAm countries with leftist governments are doing very well, in this Bushwhack worldwide depression, precisely because of social spending! High employment, with decent wages, high economic growth rates, booming business, big reductions in poverty, big increases in access to education and medical care, and unprecedented cooperation among these countries for the benefit of the region.

If Latin America--which has suffered so much RW devastation--can turn things completely around, by doing their civic homework on honest elections, so can we. We started this whole thing about democracy, did we not? Democracy is written in our hearts.

are educated on it.

> Voter-verified paper ballots <
are the standard in most of the world for a reason, and they can be counted fast and cheaply - even in instant-runoff systems like Australia.