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Pseudo-historian rightwinger fundie David Barton sez Bible justifies and even encourages spanking.

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:44 PM
Original message
Pseudo-historian rightwinger fundie David Barton sez Bible justifies and even encourages spanking.

Barton On Spanking: "We Do The Same Thing With Horses"

~snip~

Barton argues that a judge had no right to convict her (a woman convicted of causing injury to a child) because, he explained, the Bible justifies and even encourages spanking.

~snip~

The right-wing pseudo-historian blames evolution as the culprit for the diminishment of spanking, maintaining that the application of evolution already ruined our understanding of the Constitution, science, and history, and is now set to destroy traditional parenting:

Barton: Always in the Bible, discipline is with a rod, it’s not with a hand. ’Cause the hand is supposed to reach out in love, you don’t want kids flinching from your hand. We do the same thing with horses. When I reach my hand to the face of a horse, I don’t want to flinch him from my hand. So if I have to beat a horse, and occasionally I do, you take something like a switch or a little crop or something else. And you can’t hurt a horse, I mean you can, but you have to convince a 1,200 lbs horse that me at 150 lbs is tougher than you and you do that by training. But when I extend my hand to my horse he doesn’t run from my hand, now he may not like that crop if he sees it, but after he’s had it a few time he’ll do exactly what I want, we have no difficulty, that’s why you also use spurs at times.

So the deal with spanking with hands, that’s why you really don’t want to do that you want to use something else so your hand is always associated with love and tenderness and reaching out to kids, there’s nothing to flinch, so people use belts or hairbrushes, or they can use a paddle or whatever it is.


When you say something ‘your yea’s should be yeas, your nay’s nays,’ say something, if they don’t follow through, no anger needed, there’s just a penalty to pay for it. A consequence.

So, you get this thing where we have now moved into applying evolution to parenting. Now we’ve already applied evolution to the Constitution, we’ve applied evolution to science, we’ve applied evolution to history, that’s why we don’t teach history, we teach culture. Not any of the of the fifty major universities in America, elite universities require any course in history, they all teach culture, not history. So we’ve applied evolution. Now we’re applying evolution to parenting, and ‘you don’t spank.’

Wait a minute, the Bible says I do. You mean we evolved past the Bible? That’s what you getting. As you can tell I’m exercised over this one.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/barton-spanking-we-do-same-thing-horses

Who is this guy? From PFAW:

Introduction

Newt Gingrich promises to seek his advice and counsel for the 2012 presidential campaign. Mike Huckabee calls him America’s greatest historian, says he should be writing the curriculum for American students, and in fact suggested that all Americans should be “forced at gunpoint” to listen to his broadcasts. Michelle Bachmann calls him “a treasure for our nation” and invited him to teach one of her Tea Party Caucus classes on the Constitution for members of Congress. State legislators from around the country invite him to share his “wisdom” with them. Glenn Beck calls him “the most important man in America.” Who is this guy?

This guy is David Barton, a Republican Party activist and a fast-talking, self-promoting, self-taught, self-proclaimed historian who is miseducating millions of Americans about U.S. history and the Constitution.

~snip~
http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/barton-s-bunk-religious-right-historian-hits-the-big-time-tea-party-america?gclid=CPHN3sKaxqoCFaUZQgodWFpFyg
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Christianity in this country is a F joke. nt
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. And stoning. You think we should bring that back, Mr. Barton?
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Really? Seriously? You equate spanking with stoning?
:eyes:
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Nope. Disputing Mr. Barton's assertion that an activity is OK because the Bible justifies it.
:eyes:
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, with that logic
We should nail metal to their feet, feed them hay and keep them in stalls, too. Durrr....
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. It even advocates baby killing...nt
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have no doubt he spanks it frequently. nt
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thessalonians 5:18
"give thanks in all spankings; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus"

(j/k)
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow. Looks like somebody misunderstood that "fool for Christ" passage. n/t
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Peachy. He ruins horses AND children.
He compares children to full-grown horses.

You don't beat horses with crops; you tap them for their attention. A particularly stubborn horse gets firmer taps. If you're beating them; you're doing it wrong.

Spurs, used correctly, are an extension of your heel; not a poking or raking device. If you're using it to gouge your horse; you're doing it wrong.

Children and horses respond to consistency and kindness. Brutalizing either creates a brute.

I presume he is a product of his own advice. Asswipe.

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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Really. What alternative universe exists where children and horses
don't flinch just because objects for abuse are used instead of hands? These people are crackpots.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. "Crackpots" is a nicer word for them. You are far kinder than I.
I'd like to see the bastards running a Klingon gauntlet.

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Ever since that centaur dumped him in high school, he just hasn't been the same. n/t
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I gotta tell ya, it's not fair to buy a round then be the cause of me
spewing it all over my keyboard!

:rofl:

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I'm telling ya, she broke his heart. Left him for a centaur who was hung like a stallion. n/t
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. LOL Like this one?


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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Hmm. That driver looks strangely content.
Why is she smiling?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Because that, is The Legendary
Cowboy Del

10 Time National & National Reserve Champion Miniature Horse Stallion
Sire of National Champions, National Futurity Champions &multi National Top Ten Champions!


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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well, Barton. C'mon over.
I'll introduce you to someone who is bigger than you by the same proportion that most adults are bigger than the kids they 'spank'. And I'll give that someone a 'rod' (or hairbrush or wooden spoon) that is equally bigger. We'll see if Barton is willing to subject himself to the kind of 'discipline' he advocates.


There's a book called A Shepherd Looks at the 23rd Psalm, I think the author's name is Phillip Keller. A sheep rancher, he talks about how the rod and staff are used for guidance and rescue, the guidance with the rod laid against the neck of a sheep to urge it in a particular direction, rescue with the staff's hooked end to pull an animal from a tough spot. Neither rod nor staff is ever used to strike a sheep. It's been years since I read that book, but the lesson took.

There's also a lesson in examining that word 'discipline'; same root as 'disciple', a person who follows a particular way of thinking about things. Christians would do well to follow the example of their founder when dealing with children, he saw them as examples for adults not targets for uncontrolled tempers.


-
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. In the Bible, a shepherd used the rod to guide, not to hit.
I've heard parents try to justify using an object to hit their kids with. It's abominable to me. So is spanking with a hand, but at least the person using their hand gets a feel of what is being delivered.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. spare the rod, and spoil the child.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 09:22 AM by Bluerthanblue
I've heard this kind of teaching myself years ago.

It is one of the things that opened my eyes to the way the bible was being used to justify some pretty terrible human failings.

"Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)

edited to add one of the scriptures
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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yeah, Dave, The Bible Advocates LOTS Of Terrible Ideas
Including selling your daughter into slavery if she disobeys you.

Dave's not here, man.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Bible also says to kill disrespectful sons ...

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

King James Version (KJV)

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.


Boys probably didn't talk back much in those days.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. Barton's statements reveal a profound stupidity. nt
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
22. delete
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 08:25 AM by piratefish08
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
24. And "The Turner Diaries" justify\ies and encourages race war.
Using works of fiction to "justify and encourage" things is not a very good idea.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
25. No true Christian would cite the OT over the NT for his value system.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 09:07 AM by WinkyDink
The entire POINT, the RAISON D'ETRE, of the New Testament is to SUPERCEDE the Old!
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
26. what he's saying is being taught in more
than a few fundamentalist churches today.

I've heard it myself. :shrug: it's twisted and sick. The "rule of thumb" comes from the size of the rod you are to beat your child with.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. Not to mention killing your first born if you hear voices!
:rofl:
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. People like this are just absolute monsters.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. It's disgusting reading his crap
but it was even worse listening to him spew it (at the link)

:puke:
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