Seriously, what do Obama and the Democrats have to run on besides fear?

Their record since 2006 is abysmal, a lack of real progress, an inability to fight, poor strategy and tactics, and an ongoing movement to the right. Key, signature pieces of legislation became corrupted due to an inability to fight and a penchant to give in far too early. We gave them control of the House, then control of the entire Congress and the White House, yet little progress was made. And if you dared to point that out, or complained, you were slammed as a "professional leftist", a "fucking retard" or worse.

Yes, Democrats lost the House in 2010, but the fact of the matter is that they've retained the two most important thirds of the strings of power, the Senate and White House. Yet again, they've been able to do very little, and in Obama's case, refused to use the powers granted to him by the Constitution to prevent greater harm to the country. Thus we are now facing this Super Committee, and are at the mercy of their "recommendations".

Meanwhile, the job market is taking the economy down with it, and despite every sane, intelligent economist screaming for government to forget the debt problem and start creating jobs, Obama and the Democrats have let the crazies on the right control the conversation, and push for more austerity programs in an economic downturn. One would think that a love for their country would prompt Democrats to fight back on this, but instead most of them go along.

On issues like the public option, tax cuts for the rich, jobs, etc. the Democrats seem to be deaf to what the public wants. Time and again we have seen an issue, supported by vast majorities of Americans, go down to defeat because the Dems won't fight for what the public wants.

So with this sort of record, what are Obama and the Dems going to run on? The answer is clear, the only thing left they have to run on, fear. Once again we're going to be treated to a year of fear, Fear, FEAR! Fear of the 'Pugs, what they'll do, how extreme they are. The same sort of fear tactic that the Dems have been using with increasing frequency since the days of Carter and Reagan.

The trouble is fear doesn't work real well. Sure, it brings in some votes, but the fact is people become numb to fear after awhile. Not to mention the simple fact that people would rather support a candidate based on what he/she has done for them, not simple as an antithesis vote against the candidate they're running against.

When you don't have a record of accomplishment to run on, when your main campaign strategy is to scare people into voting for you, you are suppressing the voter turnout. They say, "to hell with both the greater and lesser of two evils," and stay home, pissed off at both parties. When you ignore the will of the people, they become apathetic, thinking that what they want doesn't matter. And if the 'Pugs pull out a charismatic candidate like Reagan, people will flock to them in droves, because hey, they think they might just get a better deal there.

There is still time for Obama and the Dems to build a solid record to run on, but they are going to have to get to work quickly, and put in the long hours and extra effort it's going to take. They're going to start giving people what they want instead of compromising it away. They need to start fighting for a true jobs creation program, and they have to absolutely got to start controlling the conversation.

Otherwise, if all they've got to run on is fear, they will go down. It's that simple.

low information voters. As has many studies shown, liberals and progressives require something more convincing to be swayed in comparison.

Rightwingers get all stirred up over women's rights, gay marriage, etc etc. Those are things that don't merit fear.

Their arguments will not be convincing to you as you have already made up your mind.

The economy sucks, and will still suck next year. The stimulus was a watered down failure. HCR dropped the public option, and turned out to be a mandated monopoly for the insurance industry, one that will get killed in the Supreme Court. Tax cut extensions for the rich, attacks on Social Security and Medicare, on the big issues Dems simply don't shine, they look weak, and badly compromised.

Sure, you can trot out The List™, but frankly the public won't pay attention to the minutia of the The List™. They look at the big issues, the ones that directly effect them, and make their decision based on those big issues. And while you may not like it, Obama and the Dems don't come out looking good at all. Don't believe me? Just go look at the latest polls.

What point would it serve? None. Any accomplisments Dems run on, you will have an answer as to why it is not an accomplishment.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary, that fear actually does work in an election?

Or is your own mind so tightly shut that you can't bear to admit even the tiniest bit of reality in?

It is not as if the Republicans have a very good argument going. Media will do their best to promote them, but they did their best to promote Palin, Sharon Angle, etc etc

Polling shows generic Democrat ahead of generic Republican in congress.

Polling also show most people still blame Bush for the state of the economy

Let's break down the Obama job approval polling

This is the latest that gallup has that breaks down by political affiliation:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Job-Approval-Center.aspx
Aug 1 - 7

The Basics:

Democrat 78%
Independent 34%
Republican 10%

Liberal 70%
Moderate 48%
Conservative 22%

Liberal Dem 83%
Moderate Dem 75%
Conservative Dem 56%

Independent 27%

Liberal/Mod Republican 18%
Conservative Republican 8%

As you can see, Obama's job approval numbers are worst with CONSERVATIVES.

As far as reality goes, let's remember the 2008 election. Obama won partially by pulling independent voters and moderate Republicans. Partly with the post partisan message, partly by tying McCain to Bush.

A huge factor was McCain's choice of Palin as a running mate. Once her views were known, she was not palatable to independents and moderate Republicans.

At this point the front runners in the Republican race are

1) Rick Perry - Palin in drag.
2) Michele Bachmann - Palin rev 2
3 Mitt Romney - a job destroying fat cat

Once the views and records of these people become known, will independents and mod republicans actually find these candidates more palatable than Palin?

Especially not a very good record on the big issues that Americans pay attention to. Two wars still going, a failed HCR, more and more tax cuts, and the big elephant in the room, an economy that sucks.

Not for nothing did Clinton run on the idea that it's the economy stupid.

Another fact is that Obama won by getting out the vote. Record numbers among the young, Latino, black, etc. Without a solid record of accomplishment, using fear to try and bring in votes, he is going to suppress that record turnout and lose.

It's that simple, and one has but to look at history and see the truth in that.

Great message! :sarcasm:

:toast:

try to keep up.

... but you did bother to respond to explain that you're not going to respond. What point did THAT serve?

and we can all read yet again about things that were "committed to" and "pledged to" and "improved" and "expanded upon".

:rofl:

A history of tiny accomplishments.

are you saying there isn't anything to fear?
The thought of a President Perry/VP Rubio scares the shit out of me.

You're going to lose. Fear turns people off. They get tired of the negativity, they get tired of being scared, so they tune it all out, stay home and don't vote. Or worse, they vote for the charismatic candidate like Reagan who speaks of sunshine and lollipops, never of fear.

Fear is the harbinger of apathy, the killer of turnout. Candidates need to run on a solid record, not fear.

won a huge landslide. In retrospect, voters got punked by LBJ, as he used the Gulf of Tonkin lie to swindle the American people into a land war in Asia. But the point is that fear-based campaigns have succeeded, do succeed will succeed again. For proof that both parties resort successfully to fear, see the Willie Horton ads run against Michael Dukakis in 1988. Q.E.D.

Doesn't the prospect of a President Bachmann inspire just the tiniest dread in you? Come on, admit it :)

were justified, but more that Palin's selection by McCrazy brought McCrazy's judgment seriously into question. But I have never read or seen any hard and fast polling either way.

compared with today's crazies.

Still you can't compare 1964 to 2012.

And you can't compare LBJ to Obama.

LBJ had a vision for a Great Society and were it not for his desire to NOT be the first POTUS to lose a war (Vietnam), his full dream may have been realized. Still, his legacy includes Civil Rights, Head Start, Medicare and Medicaid. He didn't back down while Obama yields, cedes and capitulates at every turn.

pointing out that the campaign against BG was 'fear-based' and wildly succeeded, by way of responding to OP saying that fear-based campaign will go down.

On a practical level, I think a middle road would be for Obama to commence immediately a campaign against the 'Do Nothing' Congress, a la Harry S. Truman in 1948. I doubt it will happen but it would allow Obama to avoid fear but also give the Repukes the hell they so deserve.

was what LBJ had to give the MIC/PTB in return for being allowed to pursue the Great Society, and had no idea that it would go so far south so fast and so irretrievably.

If thats the only reason to vote for President Obama, America is truly fucked!

who will do more damage?

President Democrat or President Republican

Tell me you've never voted for someone you didn't care for, just so the other wouldn't win?

I have, Michael Bennet vs Ken Buck - can't stand Bennet.

The greatest voting segment in this country are the apathetic voters. They are mostly liberal, and they become apathetic because they feel as though neither side is doing a thing for issues that concern them. A fear based campaign turns them off and if you want to get them to the polls, you've got to give them something positive to motivate them to vote. Fear won't do it, only a solid record.

over and over and over again.

Not buying your "solid record" in this economy.
Majority still don't blame the President for this mess.

Did Bush have a solid record in 04?

In fact that has been scientifically proven to be correct.

So tell me, what major issues have given Obama and the Dems a clear cut victory. Oh, yeah, none.

And Bush didn't have massive unemployment and a declining economy in '04.

Which is nice. Then there's:

"Stand with PRESIDENT OBAMA for Lasting Change in 2012."

Which has a more upbeat ring to it.

a check but with a lot of commentary writte in glaring hot pink Sharpie marker.

Told them where they could shove their Wimpocratic pseudo change.

Asked:
- where's the firewall protecting SS and Medicare
- why are waning tax dollars spent in Israel
- why is the US still in Afghanistan (10 years this coming October, longer than both World Wars combined!!),and what do We, the people have to show for our mis-spent tax $$$$ aside from destruction of lives, treasury and good will

Told them we need a Roosevelt or Truman instead of President sellout who has helped move the agenda to the right by ceding to the repukes.

As all of us know, the President has a long list of good, solid accomplishments. When those are denigrated and tossed aside as nothing, and then fear is substituted, one has to ask what is the reason to do so.

Ignoring the current Congress isn't productive and using it against the President is highly suspect. As unproductive as thinking he can bypass the Constitution and do whatever he wants, and then slamming him for not doing it.

I don't think "they" will go down. Have no fear.

What is this "agenda" that you're talking about? And how am I pushing it? By pointing out the historical and political reality that using fear as an election tactic is counterproductive, that doing so drives down voter turnout? That isn't fear, that is fact, a fact that Obama and the Democrats don't seem to grasp, since they have used fear time and again when they don't have a solid record to run on.

And no, The List™ aside, Obama doesn't have "a long list of good, solid accomplishments," at least not in the mind of most of the voting public. Most folks aren't political wonks who pay attention to every little thing. Most of the public pays attention to the big things, like the economy. Or HCR, where public opinion on the public option didn't seem to matter. Or the tax cut extension for the rich, which the public didn't want either. Big things, things that make the news, that's what most Americans pay attention to, and in those areas, yes, the President's record sucks. I know that, you know that(though you may not want to admit it, even to yourself) and the President knows that, which is why we're getting the big fear push.

As far as what Congress has done, like it or not, the buck stops with the President. It may be unfair, it may be wrong, but it is reality, and that's what people have to deal in, reality.

Health care reform is helping many, many people whether you want to admit it or not. The bush tax cut extension helped people making under 250k and kept unemployment benefits going for 13 months. That might be nothing to you, but to those it helped it's a big thing.

As you said most people aren't wonks, but they do know the numbers in their paychecks and their unemployment benefits. They also know their kid can be covered until age 26. Plus many other things that help the people. You can ignore the Congress, which you did again, but people know who votes for the bills....and it's not the President.

Gee, how McCarthyite of you.

Fine, disbelieve what I say, ignore historical and political reality, whatever gets you through the night. Just don't say you weren't warned when the election returns come rolling in.

Do what you want, ignore the truth. The majority of Democrats will support the President, those who won't weren't going to anyway.

But rather liberals, young folks, minorities, independents. A low turnout among those groups means that Obama loses.

But hey, stay in your little bubble for now. But remember, reality has a nasty way of intruding.

I would expect the groups mentioned would turn out like they did in 2008, and not out of fear. Out of knowing that President Obama has done much good and will do more.

Just go back and study your political history, or is that too much trouble for you?

This tea party Congress is nothing like any in modern history.

But given your dearth of historical knowledge I doubt that you would know that.

Go educate yourself.

Though I suggest that you correct that oversight shortly, otherwise you could wind up looking foolish. Oh, wait, too late.

Show me where I specifically said "don't bother to vote". Oh, yeah, that's right, you can't.

What you can do is reread for comprehension and recognize that what I'm saying is that a fear based campaign simply won't work, for a number of reasons that I outlined.

But hey, I suppose comprehension is overrated anyway, better to get in the quick snark than actually understand something:eyes:

And please, let me in on this "meme" that I'm implying.

some people can't handle the truth. You are absolutely correct about the lack of a solid agenda for Obama and Congressional Dems to run on. And while others here may say that fear works, I'd remind them that it rarely works for the Democratic side.

Which as given us a sorta, maybe, kinda, when there's enough dry powder, bi-partisan, New Democrat, Third Way, party that believes in nothing other than getting and retaining power.

This is the latest that Gallup has up that breaks down the numbers ideologically and by party:


http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Job-Approval-Center.aspx
Aug 1 - 7


Democrat 78%
Independent 34%
Republican 10%

Liberal 70%
Moderate 48%
Conservative 22%

Liberal Dem 83%
Moderate Dem 75%
Conservative Dem 56%

Independent 27%

Liberal/Mod Republican 18%
Conservative Republican 8%

As you can see, Obama's job approval numbers are worst with CONSERVATIVES.

But, wait. Is all that gnashing of teeth and accusations of the left not voting in 2010 reduced to bullshit by that measure? Obviously, in that case, it wasn't the liberals who sat it out but the moderates and conservatives.

Also, if the moderate/conservative policies he's following are so smart, why are the intended targets not voting for him?

No. So don't put words in my mouth.

And most of those voters are disaffected liberals. Says something, doesn't it.

When the voters are limited to a choice between Republican(R) and Republican(D) why bother?

They can run on facts! Do you think it's hard to point out just how fucking badly the republicans left the nation after their eight year run? All they have to do is highlight every misdeed and deception the republicans used. THEy are relegated to complaining only about Obama, since Clinton left office 11 yrs ago. All dems have to do is point to the obstruction by republicans that have kept this nation from recovering because they want the president to look bad. I think they know they don't have any chance of winning. Just look at the republican candidates. PErry, Romney, BAchmann, the three stooges! Two tea baggers and a guy who touted healthcare for all in his state. Obama will mop the floor with them!

It simply won't work. It will suppress turnout, which is what Obama and the Dems are going to need. You've got to have a solid record to run on and get reelected, and this administration doesn't have one, and no matter how you try to explain that away, the fact remains.

:cry:

Partly due to their own actions. It would be nice to see them put on a Tea Party like show in Congress sometime, just to make the President think twice before continuing to run over liberal issues.

Tax The Rich.

Hopefully we can put a stop to the new free trade agreements.

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Our problems go far beyond who is president. Nearly every Republican in Congress is a loonball, religion-poisoned, homophobic fascist and many congressional Democrats are really free-trader, greed-market millionaire Republicans as far as economics go.

We're not going to get anything done with a corporate-vetted Chi-school Executive Branch, a Reagan Republican-Dominated SCOTUS and a corporate-funded Legislative branch.

Until America overcomes its fear of security guards, let alone police, not a damn thing is going to change. Protests in corporate boardrooms and their gated communities have to happen. These people have to somehow be made to fear US, not the other way around.

What might they run on?

Ending the wars? Nope

The environment? Not after the coddling and collusion in the Gulf.

Health Care? They labored mightly and produced a poisoned pill.

Jobs? The administration refuses to consider WPA type actions.

It's too late to do anything even if they wanted to, which does not seem to be the case.

The people have no real choice at all.

They've been running on fear for decades!

Just watch. And the biggest fear pushers will be the ones on here telling us that is not what they will run on.

El zilcho. The big goose egg.

All they've got is "the 'pukes would be even worse."

A lot of people are going to look at the Democratic record and despise it, yet they're not going to vote for the 'Pugs. Thus, they stay at home and in an election where turnout is truly important, it means that Obama and Dems will lose. Thus, they need to start working on a record of solid, well known achievements now instead of trying to rely on fear to carry election day.