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Bite experts conclude pit bull 'Gunner' sole attacker of Pacifica woman

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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:38 PM
Original message
Bite experts conclude pit bull 'Gunner' sole attacker of Pacifica woman
Based on an evaluation by dog bite experts and a necropsy, Pacifica police on Monday concluded only one pit bull was involved in fatal mauling of Darla Napora.

The finding clears a second pit bull owned by Napora and her husband, Greg, in the Thursday attack that killed the 32-year-old pregnant woman.

Police Capt. Dave Bertini, who was the third on scene that day and gave CPR to Darla Napora, said the department has ruled out every other possible theory, other than that the 2-year-old unneutered pit bull terrier named Gunner killed his owner.

But the finding does not explain why Gunner would suddenly turn on a woman who had cared for him since he was a puppy.

http://www.mercurynews.com/census/ci_18685702
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's another article with slightly different details:
Preliminary results from the autopsy conducted on Darla Napora, who police believe was mauled and killed by her pet pit bull on Thursday, and the necropsy conducted on the suspect dog have been released, police said today.

According to a pathologist and two Odontologists (bite experts), one of whom had experience with recent dog attacks in the Bay Area, at the San Mateo County Coroner’s Office, Napora, a 32-year-old pregnant Pacifica woman who lived at 588 Reina Del Mar Avenue with her husband and two pet pit bulls, died of loss of blood coupled with shock.

The preliminary results of the necropsy on the suspect two-year-old male pit bull that was shot by police shortly after they arrived at Napora’s residence on Thursday, show that the dog was responsible for the attack, Pacifica Police Chief Jim Tasa said.

The evidence included hair and tissue sample removed from the dog. Teeth impressions from the dog match wounds on the victim, said Chief Tasa.

http://pacifica.patch.com/articles/coroner-prelim-autopsy-results-show-pit-bull-responsible-for-this-attack
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. thank you Xema. Still not sure why a 125 lb dog could be considered a pitbull
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:03 PM
Original message
That's the detail for me that's like
"Really?" :shrug:

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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Possibly. I had a 93-pound pit bull.n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Most common 35-55, can be 22-110 (rare), link...
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:15 PM by uppityperson
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm
The APBT ranges in size from 22 pounds to 110 pounds (rare), with the most common being between 35 - 55 pounds (16-25 kg.) and were bred small for their main purpose, fighting, These dogs are varying from small to extra large. A very common misconception is that APBT's are muscle bound (viscous) hulks that weigh in around 85 pounds (39 kg.) and this is generally not the majority, Most of the APBT's that Are that large have been crossed with another breeds.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
106. I had a 99 lb Doberman. He was freakishly large but fully registered
and from a long line of registered pedigreed Dobes. Sometimes you just get that uber large dog in a breed.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. That is so weird
I read an article yesterday here that stated she fell from a ladder and the dog was watching out for her. Now we see it actually did bite her. Too many conflicting stories which in itself is pretty strange.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
70. That was an opinion piece, not a news article (nm)
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dear lord, unneutered
I wouldn't keep a male dog that big without him being fixed. Getting them fixed tones down their aggressiveness.

And what's this about a bite? Other people were saying just yesterday that she wasn't bitten and was killed by falling off the ladder? It appears that our resident pit bull enthusiasts were making things up.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I would think that dog bite injuries would look a lot different than
injuries sustained from falling. Most people wouldn't have puncture wounds and torn flesh from falling, unless they fall onto a bed of nails, and roll around on it.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. That's what the pit bull apologists
were touting yesterday, with the always trotted out "the media is always making up bad things about pit bulls!" excuse. They were trying to say that the dog was "protecting" the woman after she fell (never mind that it got shot because it charged the cops).

The fact that the dog was not neutered certainly explains why it would be more aggressive than usual. It really bothers me that people would take it so far to defend the breed that they would make up things like "she was killed by falling off a ladder" when she died from blood loss.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. The marks could have come after the fall
if the dog was trying to get a response from her.

And as a caveat, I had a major phobia about pitbulls. They scare the hell out of me.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
43. Well, the one thing I wouldn't want in a pet would be a tendency
to chew me to pieces if I happen to end up on the floor--so that's still an indication that this dog has a screw loose.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
60. There is NO evidence that a ladder was involved
other than that kooky woman's blog post.

If you search for "Pacifica" and "ladder" in Google news there are NO hits.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
98. The Examiner is a hair better than World Nut Daily. n/t
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. i agree. they have to be neutered.
my former nail girl had 2 chows. her husband refused to neuter the male. her daughter went to pet the dog and he went for her throat. her brother was able to pull the dog off. she was rushed to the hospital and had to have plastic surgery on her face. dog bit right through her nose.

after the dog was put down my nail girl told the kids not to mention it because daddy was still upset. he was upset because the dog had to be put down? give me a break.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
61. chows are vicious dogs to be sure, what a horrid story
sounds like an abusive family there, i would not tolerate a man who wanted to keep chows around my young daughters

DADDY was upset? his young daughter needs facial plastic surgery and HE'S upset about a damn dog?

at some point you have to understand that some people truly have no caring or concern for human beings, even their own family!

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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #61
79. the girl was lucky her brother was able to
stop the dog or she would have been killed.

before the incident my nail girl had told me that chows are "inherently nasty". she was afraid of them. i never understood why they had them with 3 kids. i think she was more interested in keeping her husband happy than caring about her kids.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Huh. But an anonymous neighbor, quoted by a pit rescuer, said she fell off the ladder!
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 02:58 PM by Brickbat
Sad all around. I have to admit I'm a little surprised it wasn't the husband, but I'm also not surprised at all that this happened in the first place.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. And of course...
...that's far more credible than cops who had to shoot the dog after it charged them, and that the woman died from blood loss and had bites on her body. No, of course what killed her was falling off the ladder - the pit bull was just "protecting" her.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The husband said the dog didn't charge them, and media posted a retraction.
fwiw.

And I posted the ladder thing, not believing it, but to show how people are apt to jump on sexy news. I am sorry you feel those who are not prejudiced against a coloration or body type are "apologists". We view those who vilify based based on the actions of some as bigoted. fwiw.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Wait a second...
...did you just call me "bigoted" because I stated a fact that there were people making shit up about the lady dying from falling off the ladder, and now it turns out she died of blood loss and had bite marks?

Am I also "bigoted" and "prejudiced" if I suggest that I'm uncomfortable around hungry tigers?

That's a low point, even for around here.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. No. I am saying people who prejudge a group based on some are bigoted.
I also called you on the incorrectly reported "dog charged" thing. The husband said the dog didn't charge them, and media posted a retraction.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. So it's okay to characterize a person as a bigot
because they don't appreciate people making up things to defend an animal attack. Gotcha. I guess I was an ass for feeling bad for the girl who was ripped apart by a pack of coyotes, too.

I hope when you go to the zoo and climb in the cage with a lion it respects your non-prejudicial stance on discrimination of large, potentially dangerous predators.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. You are basing your dislike of a pitbull based on the actions of a 125 dog that isn't a pitbull
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:12 PM by uppityperson
And you lecture me on lions? pshaw.

Here's a question for you. Since pit bulls are not 125 lbs, why is this dog called that by the media?
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I'm basing my dislike of pit bulls
because I've known a couple that had one and he attacked the husband, and the fact that just about every time there is a fatal or critical wounding by a dog bite, there is usually a pit bull involved.

This dog was also not neutered, which further illustrates the stupidity of people owning large deadly dogs and not doing the things necessary to keep their aggression in check.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. this dog may have been part pit, but not all. I lived with a 125 lb dog who was
very well trained, neutered, etc. Big dogs can be scary and first thing I did with my fuzzy dog was train him to drop whatever was in his mouth on command, to drop his toy if he felt a finger in his mouth, to recognize I was Queen dog.

News media exists to sell ads, so sexies up new and yes, loves to report things that sell. Like "pit bull" when they don't get to be 125lbs. Not much call for papers to cover other types of dog bites, or cover things correctly or issue corrections like this dog didn't charge as originally reported.

Yes, I knew the ladder story was idiotic.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I had a 110 Lbs. Doberman
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:29 PM by Aerows
He wouldn't even think of biting someone, and never did - I raised him from a puppy and took him for obedience training. He could have easily been deadly had that been his mission, but Dobermans have a different temperment than Pit bulls, and a very different intelligence level. I wouldn't expect a Labrador retriever to freak out and start biting people anymore than I would expect an Irish setter to do so, and they are also big dogs.

The difference with pit bulls is when they flip out, they kill people. Labrador retrievers are hands down the most popular dog breed in the US. If there was a history of them flipping out and killing people, we'd hear about it in the news because they are so prevalent. You don't hear that though - you hear about pit bulls with sickening regularity.

Whether it's the owners that are the problem because they get off on having a potentially dangerous dog, or the breed themselves, there IS a problem somewhere. Mainly I think the problem is that when a pit bull decides to bite, their jaws are so strong it causes horrific wounds.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. pit bull jaws are no more powerful than any other dog of the same size.
The Supre Powerful or Locking Jaw myth is just that, a myth, an urban legend.

As a child I was bit/attacked by several dogs, from chihuhua to st bernard, and a golden lab that turned out to freak at people wtih long hair. As I had.

You hear about pit bulls even when they aren't pit bull because it sells news. If it is a mix, why is it "pit bull mix" and not "lab/pit mix" or "cocker spaniel/pit mix"? Another media question, why do people so distrust msm except in cases like this?

A sib had a boxer/pit mix who disappeared and we all hoped she'd been killed by a cougar or hit by a car rather than the alternative of snatched, abused, made to fight.

People who mistreat animals should have some sort of serious consequence. Also, focusing on 1 specific body type of dog, or mixture, does not address the larger issues of dog bites. Larger dogs of ANY type are more dangerous than smaller, un-neutered ones more dangerous (esp males), every dog can bite, and don't leave infants of children alone with any dog.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. The problem that I am trying to point out is not...
... getting bitten or attacked. The problem is the attack being FATAL or critically injuring. You don't get fatalities from chihuahuas. That's what pit bull owners fail to address. Sure, any dog can bite. But not all dogs are capable of killing when they DO bite. Rottweilers are certainly capable of killing people, too, and they are number 2 on the fatal bite list. Pit bulls are first though - that is a fact.

The couple I knew did not mistreat their pit bull, yet for some reason, he decided to attack the husband. Out of all the dog breeds and dogs in the US, pit bulls are the ones that are first for fatal bites. Does that mean the breed is all bad? No - but in my opinion, there should be standards for ownership. Irresponsible owners of them are playing with fire, and it's no joke.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
89. Maybe they're "sexing up" the weight.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
90. The dog was called a pit bull by media because it's a generic term for dogs with certain features
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 05:26 PM by Gormy Cuss
They didn't call it an APBT. The breed is tarnished by the generic use of the term "pit bull" but the media didn't invent this broader usage. People who have these dogs in their possession use the term loosely too.

Frankly, it's probably time for the APBT to be renamed to avoid confusion because the term "pit bull" has such broad acceptance as a term for a short-snouted, shorthaired muscular dog.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. +1000
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
77. perhaps she fell into the dog's mouth
geez, people
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. You mean the pretty puppy didn't get bloody by "nudging" her to wake her up...?
Like I read yesterday in a post from a pit bull apologist?

The hell you say!
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yeah, I read that yesterday, too
Poor innocent sweet puppy.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Hey You!
:hi:

I'm on the road right now but have some things I'd like to discuss with you if that's okay. Today is my Daughter's 20th B-day. I wish I could have been home with her...

Have a Wonderful Day!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Are you seriously calling me an "apologist" ? Seriously? How is a 125 lb dog a pitbull?
the hell you say.

Pit bulls are not 125 lbs. So what was this dog?

You call me an "apologist" for not being prejudiced against a particular type of dog, which this wasn't as pit bulls are not 125 lbs?

Seriously?

You missed the point why I posted the ladder story.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. I'm sorry, I guess it was someone else that called people who blamed the dog "assholes".
My bad.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I don't call people assholes. you bad.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Did I call you specifically an apologist...
...or did I say that other people in the thread were saying he was trying to protect her? Because that's what I said. Anything you inferred from it is what you brought into the statement yourself. I didn't name a single name - I said "some people". If you feel you fit into that category, that's your interpretation, but that isn't what I said.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Of course you didn't because that would be a callout. Rather like me not calling you
bigoted. See, we both can do this. I won't call you names, you won't call me names. We describe behavior of others, but never by name. hugs
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. You just called me bigoted a second ago
And frankly, I don't remember who posted the hypothesis that the dog was "protecting" her. I didn't remember who posted the ladder article either, because I didn't look it up. You specifically called me a bigot a few minutes ago, and I think that's a little worse than saying that people who were making up theories on how the dog wasn't to blame are apologists.

But whatever. It's not like I'm going to alert you because you said something silly - hell if that happened, I'd probably be alerted every day, along with half the people on DU.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. No, I didn't. I described behavior like you did. Here are the quotes....
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:23 PM by uppityperson
Anything you inferred from it is what you brought into the statement yourself. I didn't name a single name - I said "some people"

Yours:Like I read yesterday in a post from a pit bull apologist?

Mine:We view those who vilify based based on the actions of some as bigoted.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. You directed it specifically at me
I didn't direct my comments specifically at you - there is a difference. You weren't even in the thread when I made the comments you took exception to.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. "We view those who vilify based based on the actions of some as bigoted." is NOT directly specifiall
specifically at Aerows but was placed in that response to the "apologists" comment. Please do NOT assume that I am calling Aerows SPECIFICALLY an bigot as I am not.

I do not know Aerows well enough to do that and am only talking about behavior of unspecified Duers.Unless Aerows specifically feels he or she falls in this group, this is not directed specifically at Aerows. We view those who vilify based based on the actions of some as bigoted.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Since you replied to me
that was exactly what that statement was intended to infer. Again, I didn't reply to you, since you weren't even in the thread.

In any case, can we please drop it? Apparently I'm just as stubborn as you are, and we are just going to go back in forth with "You did" no "You did". I mean we *can*, but hey, we do agree on other things at times, so that's probably not a productive use of either of our brains :)
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. ok, sounds good. Let's go upthread to discuss the issues.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. this site puts their weight up to 110 - so 125 does not sound unreasonable
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
93. i looked at 4 stories, none said "125 pounds". The OWNERS say pitbull
And they love them. Who am I to argue with the owners of the dog.

The woman and pit will be buried together:

"Greg Napora told this newspaper on Friday that he planned to bury his wife of three years, a popular bartender in San Mateo, with Gunner."

http://www.mercurynews.com/census/ci_18685702
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Here you go, got it from Xema
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/12/BAR51KMV1V.DTL
Napora, bloodied and unconscious, was found on her living room floor by her husband, Greg Napora, 30, when he came home from work around noon, police said. The husband, who has fully cooperated with the probe, reported that the 125-pound Gunner stood over his wife's body before he dragged the dog into another part of the home, investigators said.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #93
103. WTF? What kind of nut would bury a person with the animal that killed her?
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. I know!
I still feel like there's something very wrong with this story and these people.

Other things that seem really off to me are the size of the dog, the fact that they got it when it was a puppy, and the fact that it wasn't fixed. The breed rescue group that they were associated with say that all dogs should be neutered or spayed.

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/responsible.html

Even though some dog owners claim that their dog was always a good dog up until the point it killed someone, these things don't happen in a vacuum.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
56. Why is it almost always Pits and "mistaken" Pits killing full-grown healthy adults?
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:12 PM by Hassin Bin Sober
(btw, one would assume the husband in the OP story knows what breed his dog is)

Here's a 911 call from a kid whose mother was killed by their "full breed red-nosed pits" Do you want to tell me that is a case of mistaken identity? Fast forward to 2:40 for the dog ID.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=42a_1191356168

I'll ask again. Why is it almost only the Pits?

One would assume there are police reports or 911 calls of full blooded Labs or Collie's killing their adult owners? And don't tell me it's "the media hype on Pits" Anytime a dog - even a non-pit - kills a human it's BIG news. (see: Diane Whipple)

Let's not talk about chihuahuas biting kids or nips on the ear by other breeds biting or even seriously hurting kids or infants. Where are all the fatalities of full grown HEALTHY ADULTS by other breeds?


edit to add: "even a non-pit" to clarify I was using an example of "hysteria in a non-pit related death.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. That was a Presa Canario
And in a lot of states, they are banned because of the fact that if they end up in the wrong hands, you have fatalities.

That's the whole point of the problem with pit bulls and Molossers in general. They are strong, and they need a highly responsible owner due to their temperment. They aren't a "just anybody can own one" type of dog, and it just seems like a lot of people don't understand that.

Having a potentially deadly animal as a pet is a huge responsibility, and our laws should reflect that. It's not like owning a leopard or a lion is allowed to just everyone.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
76. I know. I mentioned that case as an example of medea hype in a non-pit death case.
In other words, it doesn't have to be a pit death to be national news.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
69. Gee, why would msm report mistakenly? As Aerows says, that is not a pit but a Presa Canario
Why does MSM "almost always (report) Pits and "mistaken" Pits killing full-grown healthy adults?" is a very good question.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. I know it was a Presa. The two whack jobs were keeping it for their white supremacist buddy.
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:15 PM by Hassin Bin Sober
I brought that case up as an example of non-pit "hysteria" where there was a human death.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Actually
That was reported as being a Preso Canario at the time that it happened, so it wasn't a case of the MSM misreporting. I believe that is also why that breed got banned in some states. There are a few breeds of dogs that are banned, too. Dogo Argentinos and a couple of other Molasser types because in the wrong situation the dogs are just plain deadly. That's what they were bred to be to protect the flocks and herds.
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cabot Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
96. Agreed
Dogos Argentinos and Preso Canarios are the two breeds that actually scare me. I would never think of owning one because I know I couldn't control it.

Mastiffs, by contrast, are just luvable slobberbuckets who only look fierce.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. My question still stands: Where are all the reports of non-pits killing healthy adults?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. And my question still stands. Why would MSM report pits and mistaken pits?
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:30 PM by uppityperson
2 questions coming from different directions, asking different things.

Here is a place to start for your question...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
There are a limited number of studies concerning the number of human deaths caused by dogs in the United States, and the number of attributed fatalities is difficult to validate or cross-compare with other study results because:
studies dependent on surveying news reports may not find all the relevant news items
different studies use different data collection methodologies and evaluation criteria
breed identification requires a subjective evaluation based on observation of outward physical attributes against imprecise breed standards

I like the "Pit bull-type" definition.

Have you any thoughts as to why MSM would report a dog breed mistakenly? Or why they post corrections in small type at the bottom of page 2 or 4?
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. It's been established the dog in the OP is a Pit.
I posted a 911 call of another confirmed Pit death of an adult.

I guess I should have used "" quotes around mistaken. Because I don't believe it.

Again, where are the full-grown healthy adult deaths where Lab and Collies are involved?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. No, it hasn't. The dog in OP is 125#, too large for a pit bull.
Could be a mixture, or a "Pit bull-type". Did you see I edited and added some to address that question?
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. I haven't really seen any
That's the glaringly obvious point that a lot of folks seem to miss. This lady was an advocate of the breed, and gave instruction to pit bull owners on how to handle them (see the bottom of this thread where I snipped that out of a link) so I think it's a stretch to say she was an irresponsible owner.
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get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hard to wrap my mind around
And I hope it always is. I was reading about this story the other day and trying to understand how a dog someone raises and loves from a puppy can do such a thing to it's owner? I have read these stories before, too many times.

I wish more would be done to try to understand what causes these horrific maulings by people's own beloved pets. If there is something dog owners are doing wrong by accident I think people need to know. I'm a dog owner myself and can't imagine my gentle little mutt going mad like this.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. i thought she fell off a ladder and everyone an ass for accusing the poor pit. nt
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Well
Now I'm "bigoted" and "prejudiced" because I pointed out that they were making things up to defend the pit bull. But, whatever, LOL
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:08 PM
Original message
i read. i have lived next to 3 rots, and 2 pits for a decade. you know, one of the"bad" owners.
having to deal with aggressive dogs leave an impression, and "bad" owner doesnt really factor in confronted by a pit or rot.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Fail. Quit misquoting me and claiming I said things I didn't.
We view those who vilify based based on the actions of some as bigoted. I was mugged by a man with dark skin. Men with dark skin are bad. See?

Quit misquoting me and claiming I said things I didn't.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Maybe she was eating a corndog on the ladder...
Give DU time and something new will come up!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. you
made me laugh. then we can all tell dick jokes, too.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Exactly!
:P :hi:
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. In this case, when it involves a tragiic death, that was not funny. n/t
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. i hear ya. and was hesitant. but this story has gone so far beyond a womans death
as to have a thread claiming it is falling from a ladder, from some pit bull lover neighborhood, regardless of what police said. and taken seriously
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R. Thanks for the update...
added the new info to the yesterday's killer ladder thread.

Sid
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
41. Whew...
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:27 PM by LanternWaste
I was afraid I'd have have to put my ladder down and begin looking at breed specifications the next time I purchased a ladder to replace the my evil, no-account, rampaging ladder-- duly implied by last week's mythical ladder rampage. :P
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
46. FYI
Hysteria aside, your chances of dying from a dog attack are roughly equivalent to getting struck by lightning.

I wonder why there aren't many threads about lightning deaths here? God, some people are so easily duped by the mainstream media perpetual fear/outrage machine that they just can't think for themselves anymore.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. When there is lightning
sensible people go inside.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. It must be awful to live with perpetual fear
of every dog. Do you drive? Check out the odds on the national highways versus dog attacks.

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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Living in perpetual fear?
You mean pointing out in a thread where a woman was killed by a pit bull attack that pit bulls can be dangerous is living in fear? Mentioning that sensible people go inside when there is lightning is living in fear?

You know, I like to take walks and in my area, there are alligators. When I see one, I don't run up to it and poke it with a stick to see if it is a friendly one or an aggressive one.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. and sensible people don't allow pregnant women to stand on ladders
i'm SERIES!!1111
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. I wouldn't say that
I don't know if the article even said how far along she was. It's not like being pregnant renders you critically ill.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. MSM lies, and their coverage sucks, unless
it is something like omgpitbull!!!

FYI, I thought the ladder idea silly, but I didn't think it silly to wait for autopsy.

Ladders are dangerous, as is lightening and bee stings!! omg bees!!!!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
59. i come inside when the lightening starts..... regardless of odds. nt
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
63. 300,000 people every year
seek medical help for dog bites.

How many people are hit by lighting and live?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
66. Most people avoid lightning. Most don't deliberately go outside with a golf club and
stand on a hilltop. People who adopt dogs of a breed known to be vicious or dangerous are basically going outside with a golf club in a thunderstorm--they're certainly taking chances with their safety. Except other (innocent) people can be exposed to the danger as well.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #66
109. The world is so scary
best to stay under the covers.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. You ever been attacked by a stray dog?
It's really no fun.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
54. It's a very sad story
At the end of the day a woman is dead along with her unborn. Still, it is troubling that the media insists on calling this 125lb dog a "pit bull". I'm just not buying that part of the story
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
64. so the size of the pit is more important than a woman's life?
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:59 PM by pitohui
what the hell is the matter with people?

there are big pit bull mixes out there, they are scary and can be aggressive

the man who allowed this animal around his pregnant wife and his child was playing with fire, and the WIFE is the one died a terrible death and paid the price

i'm really not interested in people who want to nitpick whether it's too big to be a pure pit bull or not, who the fuck cares, we're talking about human life here
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. When an incorrectly id'd dog is used, it is important. When that then is used to condemn
other dogs of a particular type, yes, it is important. Rather like saying the race of a human mugger isn't important when that race is used to stir up resentment and fear of others of that race.

Of course the woman dying is tragic. Using it for negative or political points is bad also.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #67
92. please provide the source where it is claimed the dog was misidentified
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. Isn't it the owner who's identified the dog breed? Is there a pit bull incident
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:10 PM by TwilightGardener
that's EVER attributable to pit bulls?
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. sure there is
American Pit Bull Terriers have killed people just like other breeds have, there are around 30-35 fatal dog attacks per year and yes actual pits figure into that number. But as someone who has raised 17 pits over a 38 year period I know a fair amount about these dogs and the 125lb weight is more than enough to raise suspicion with me.

As far as as the owner reporting it as a Pit Bull, he may well have believed it was. The UKC over the last few years has pulled papers and certification from some very unscrupulous "breeders" were advertising and selling "XXL Pitbulls" and hanging UKC paper on them despite the fact that they were crossing a large amount of Mastiff and Presa Canario into them to get the bulk they wanted. I've seen more than a few of these "XXL bullies" and I wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination call them a APBT.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. You know, I've never seen other dog breeds examined this closely
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:29 PM by TwilightGardener
for exact pedigree when there's an attack. Strange to see supporters of this breed constantly using the very poor and irresponsible breeding history of this animal as a DEFENSE in an effort to deflect culpability. "Well, now, no one can really say what a pit bull is...except me. And I say this can't be a pit bull because of X or Y, plus mine will lick you to death, he plays with cats, he's a sweetheart..."
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #84
97. After 38 years and 17 dogs
Yes, I do believe I know what is and isn't a genuine American Pit Bull Terrier.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. Xema, let's check this out again in a couple wks when the autopsy/necropsy are done. thx for update
Results of the autopsy and necropsy are not expect to be announced for several weeks.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Pacifica husband forgives pet pit bull for fatal attack of his wife - San Jose Dogs | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-san-jose/pacific-husband-forgives-pet-pit-bull-for-attacking-an-killing#ixzz1V8LbinsQ
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. Okay, now this article is interesting
"She was a longtime supporter of Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pit Bulls or Bap Rap and groups who seek to promote understanding about the breed. These groups, as well as others, attempt to provide education about the breed and guidance for Pit Bull owners and potential owners in understanding the special needs and handling required to have a Pit Bull as part as ones family."

Okay, so this tells me they weren't irresponsible owners, either. THIS right here is exactly why I question these types of dogs. If a person that is a pit bull advocate gets killed by their own damn dog, something isn't right here.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #71
73.  understanding the special needs and handling required
this right here tells you there is an issue and it is from the people defending the animal.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. But, it still might not be a pit bull. The media gets it wrong, you know--or they're sensationalist
Probably a collie or something, the owners just didn't know it.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #74
102. I bet it was a mis-identified Golden Retriever mix.
They are often the killers of adults and even more regularly called pit bull mixes. I think this is a corporate media magical switch of Golden Retriever acts to those gentle pit bull or English Terrier mixes.

I saw a GR rip the head off a stray cay once...
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
108. It's not the dog, it's the owner??? n/t
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #65
99. Me too
I also await the results of the necropsy. I have my suspicions about the origin of the dog and what might actually be, but I'm going to reserve judgement until the necropsy is published. There are a few telltale features I'd like to know about.

I'd love to se some pics of the dog too, but haven't been able to find any so far.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
81. Regardless of breed, that the dog was not neutered and was named, "Gunner", says something.
.

<<---- My dog's name is "Ginny"

:donut:
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Yep. There's a big Pit I see in my neighborhood being walked by a 13ish year old girl.
Big old Pit with big old balls.

Whenever I see a big intact dog in this city I think: asshole.

And when I see one being walked by a little girl that would NEVER be able to control it if it got excited, I think: maybe I should bring a gun on walks.

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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. I saw that, too
They were probably trying to breed it because apparently they were pit bull enthusiasts. I can't imagine have a dog that big and not getting him fixed.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #87
95. I have a 105 lb guy
and he is MOST DEFINITELY fixed.

I really was not planning to get a dog that size. His mom was about 35 lbs.

I'm lucky that he's a big mellow guy, but he did growl at me once and freaked me the hell out. :o
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #81
105. My last 3 pits
All spayed females . "Missy" , "Birdie" and my current dog is "Olive". :P
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
100. Newsflash: Dogs are dangerous
Large dogs and dogs specifically bred for fighting are even more dangerous. At least THIS TIME the only person hurt was the owner.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
101. Glad that's cleared up.
Wouldn't want the chicken littles of the "scared scared!" dog set to have any less reason to needlessly fear them.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
107. ..
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