Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Catholic Christian social teaching strongly opposes tea party views

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:37 PM
Original message
Catholic Christian social teaching strongly opposes tea party views
http://ncronline.org/news/justice/after-debt-ceiling-crisis-real-work-us-social-policy-lies-ahead

SNIP

If lay Catholic allegiance to the church’s social teaching on economic issues comes to play a major role in the next election cycle, it could spell the death of the tea party movement and a resurgence of the Democratic Party unseen since FDR’s New Deal era, when Roosevelt oversaw policies of a minimum wage, a Social Security system for the elderly, and an end to child labor -- all elements of Catholic social teaching that became an integral part of the U.S. social and political culture.

In the current economic/ social/political upheaval, Catholic leaders have insisted that, if anything, the shared sacrifice demanded in recent months in the name of fiscal responsibility by both parties must include a substantive, equitable sharing of sacrifice by the well-to-do in coming years.

They also insist that upcoming federal policies must alleviate the burden of the nation’s middle class and poor -- the 80 to 90 percent of Americans who continue to be hit much harder by current and projected economic sacrifices than the economically elite who are sheltered from such vicissitudes by their wealth and their extraordinary tax breaks.

SNIP

Perhaps a key argument -- not yet effectively utilized by church leaders, despite its potential populist and political appeal -- is that Republican insistence on continuing the Bush-era tax cuts for the very rich undermines not only the nation’s economic recovery but the very democracy on which the United States has been built for more than 200 years.

SNIP
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Catholic Republicans..
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 03:46 PM by Davis_X_Machina
...won't listen, even if the Church makes it an issue.

Although they'll piss and moan about 'cafeteria Catholics', as if they were purely a left-wing phenomenon, the truth is, their 'seamless garment' is just as holey-with-an-e as anything on the other side.

They've made their choice -- the R after a name is what matters, and the rest is negotiable. If the GOP continued to oppose abortion, and -- assuming arguendo -- the bishops followed the lead of a number of mainline denominations and plumped for basically the tripartite division of Roe, they'd follow the party, and not the bishops. They did it on the death penalty, they did it on the war in Iraq, they did it on any number of economic and social-justice issues.

NCR is talking about a world that ceased to exist 50 years ago, as far as American politics is concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. There are plenty of Catholic swing voters, too. They can still be appealed to. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. The bishops aren't even remotely interested in talking to swing voters...
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:07 PM by Davis_X_Machina
...the institutional Catholic church has become, and I say this as a sad child of Dom Pedro Arrupe, the Republican Party at prayer, just as in Disraeli's time the Church of England had become the Tory Party at prayer.

Any specifically Catholic appeal, on social justice grounds, to Catholic swing voters will have to come from outside groups like Pax Christi, or from the Orders. The episcopate is hopeless.

The bishops couldn't be bothered. The secular clergy as well. They're so close they can practically smell the repeal of Row, and Griswold, and nothing is going to get in their way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Actually, Catholic Bishops HAVE been speaking out on social justice issues.
From the article at the OP:

“Our nation must be fiscally responsible in morally responsible ways,” said the heads of Catholic Relief Services (Kenneth Hackett) and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on International Justice and Peace (Bishop Howard J. Hubbard of Albany, N.Y.) in a July 29 letter to Congress protesting dramatic budget cuts in foreign aid for humanitarian projects assisting the poor in some of the world’s neediest nations.

“A just framework for future budgets cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to poor persons,” two bishops’ conference committee chairs, Hubbard and Stockton, Calif., Bishop Stephen E. Blaire of the bishops’ domestic policy committee, said July 29. “It requires shared sacrifice by all, including raising adequate revenues, eliminating unnecessary military and other spending, and addressing the long-term costs of health insurance and retirement programs fairly.”

“While a national economic crisis has been avoided, the mandated cuts to domestic programs have the potential to cause an even greater economic crisis for the nation’s most vulnerable citizens,” Catholic Charities USA head Fr. Larry Snyder said Aug. 4. “We remain deeply concerned that with an approach that focuses solely on cutting spending, efforts to balance the nation’s budget will continue to result in dramatic negative impact on the nearly 48 million Americans living in poverty, neglecting the moral imperative to adequately address the needs of those most vulnerable among us.”
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Those are specialsts...
...CRS of course rolls that way, as does the odd bishop seconded to the USCCB committees on the relevant issues. I would expect the head of Catholic Charities USA to care about such things. I would also never expect to see any of them in any position of power.

We had a generation ago Bernardin and Weakland and a few more out there fighting the good fight, highly visible, and highly irrelevant, while the rest were cheerleading for Reagan, and Michael Novak was telling the bishops who cared about such things that they just didn't understand economics, or Catholicism.

Look at the archbishops, where the big megaphones, the big bums-in-seats are. Fossils, the lot of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Bishop Hubbard isn't some "specialist." He's the Chairman
of the Committee on International Justice and Peace, of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

The difference between an Archbishop and a Bishop is that an Archbishop heads a larger diocese -- an Archdiocese. Just because he lives in a bigger city doesn't give him a bigger "megaphone."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. If he mattered..
...he'd head the USCCB itself. But no, the odious Dolan of New York is the president.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Oh yeah, right. Only one person matters in the whole USCCB.
Sorry, I don't believe that anymore than I believe that the Pope's is the only Catholic voice that matters.

Saying that only the President of the USCCB "matters" is like saying Ted Kennedy didn't matter, because he was only a U.S. Senator, and not President of the U.S.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Reactionaries against Vatican II have obfuscated the fact that the people are the Church, not the
clergy, or not solely the clergy and the clergy are supposed to SERVE the people, not the other way around.

The root of the word church is about community, i.e. the people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. That's how I understand it, too. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
teachthemwell15 Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. That speaking out is way to little
too late. Also, the bishops have lost tons of credibility given the pedophile scandals.

Bottom line: The bishops want to sound reasonable and are forever eager to deflect from the pedophile issues and all that entails to this day, and thus are attempting to sound like they actually care about social justice issues.

Their main issues remain untouched and those are gay marriage, abortion and contraception. The power and control trips they still enjoy will not be trumped by social injustice issues and thus, just as when GWB was running, they will intimidate their 'flocks' into voting republican via voting guides, etc.

The bishops begin and end with abortion, contraception and gay marriage issues. Don't be fooled by the so-called impassioned tones emitted by this group to sway American voters via social injustice only to aggressively tell them how to vote (and that will again be for republicans) in 2012.

This is mere history and will repeat itself again and again. Mark my words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. It is not entirely impossible that they corrupted themselves for a chance to overturn RvW.
The tightly closed in-curious ranks of authoritarian power needed to enforce anti-Choice were also the perfect environment to protect & defend pedophiles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. They thought they had to pretend they were perfect
in order to maintain their authority. But an authority based on false perfection is no authority at all.

Meanwhile, there a a billion Catholics who believe what they will believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes, but there still are Catholics around who knew that world 50 years ago AND they remember
that the church used to teach that mature responsible Catholics must decide things for themselves and stake their own souls on those CHOICES. Those older Catholics remember the church teaching that moral authority is the individual's risk and responsibility, not the church's, because that IS the model we see in the life of Lord Jesus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Catholic Republicans are a modern anomaly. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Love your sig...
...when I was a boy I admired Dom Helder just this side idolatry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Wasn't he awesome? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. The problem, however, is the Church's official position on
reproductive choice and GLBT rights. Those two issues align the church, if not its members, with the right. It's a bad bargain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. During the Viet Nam era, the Catholic Church had to respond to the question of soldiers who
went to war. They were also dealing with the model of Civil Disobedience set by Black Americans in their struggle for Civil Rights.

Their response to these questions was to tell young adult Catholics that their moral authority was their own responsibility, that we were to heed the teachings of our church and do our best to figure out our own problems and then stake our own souls on our behaviors. That's the sort of stuff that Catholic people USED to talk about in Confession.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. The Church is not saying that about abortion or gay marriage
Their position on these issues is unequivocal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I know. It's not the church that I grew up in, so I don't go anymore. Phone-banking for Kerry
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 05:52 PM by patrice
was a recent example. People happened to tell me stuff about that vote that was going on in their parishes. PRESSURE for W.

I don't need them anymore, haven't for a very long long time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Actually, they have the exact same stance on all those issues.
The individual conscience is paramount.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Everyone ignores the fact that there has been NO DOGMA on any of that stuff. Papal bulls, yes
but nothing ex-cathedra.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. i.e. nothing "infallible"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. The only thing they've even sort of pretended might be infallible
was the ban on women as priests. Which is quite telling, IMHO. What makes some of them so afraid of women?

Probably because we know them too well. And they know that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yes, their position on that is the essence of "conservative", i.e. there should be no women priests
because there have been no women priests.

That's it.

Nothing about how the whole life and experiences of Lord Jesus depended upon women doing the things that women do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. 100 percent correct
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:50 PM by badtoworse
The Church's position on those issues is set in stone. I don't see any endorsement for a candidate or platform that is not pro-life or one that supports gay marriage nor do I see any room for compromise on those issues.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rick Perry and his buddies call the Catholic Church "the Great Whore"
and a "Godless Theology". Clips of Perry's close friends (if he is the nominee) saying those things about the largest single religious denomination in the United States might prove interesting in an election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Yup ... need to draw this out.
Fundies like Perry are willing to pretend that they think Catholics are "real Christians", but that is not what they actually believe.

They try to hide this fact, but it is a real wedge.

The left should embrace Catholics, and call out the Fundies on their hate of Catholics .... would be awesome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Yes, and that's why Catholic bashing on DU is self-defeating.
For the sake of clarity, I'm talking about the type of person who might claim, for example, that all 1 billion Catholics are "enablers" of child abuse just by being members of the Church -- which just happened again yesterday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. I've seen the Catholic Church insulted and ridiculed by the Left more times than I can count.
It happens on DU every day in numerous threads and you're looking for the Church to back us over the Fundies? The Jews have a word for that - chutzpah.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Which is why evangelicals HATE Catholics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good idea for Democratic Party to make friends with the nation's Catholics, IMO.
Why? They're largely progressives and liberals who give a damn about this world and the next.

Thank you for an outstanding article, pnwmom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Your welcome, Octafish. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Necronomiconomics Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. First time I've ever disagreed with Octafish
I don't think you can say that "They're largely progressives and liberals."

There is a very, very strong radical-right Catholic faction.

The Supreme Court's five radical-right Catholics are a moderate version of how radical-right it gets in U.S. Catholicism.

Listen to EWTN sometime (especially "The World Over"), or read "First Things" for a representative viewpoint. Blackwater's Erik Prince is the type of Catholic I'm referring to.

If there's a ratio of liberal Catholics to radical-right Catholics, I'd bet it's closer to 50/50.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Since the Catholic vote helped swing the election to Obama,
Edited on Tue Aug-16-11 04:38 AM by pnwmom
there's no way that the ratio of liberals to "radical-right" is 50/50 -- unless you think some radical right people voted for Obama!

My personal guess would be 20% hard right. The rest divided between centrists and liberals.

Concerning the SCOTUS, I don't see Kennedy as a radical-right Catholic, though I agree about Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. It's not 50/50
You might perceive that because there are some very high profile people who are Catholic fundamentalists like Mel Gibson, Newt Gingrich and that asshole that owns Domino Pizza.

However, the majority are no high profile. The people in the parish churches are not in general hardliners as they live in this world and generally are in the habit of doing works like making sandwiches for a homeless center, collecting food for the pantry, parish ministry work etc. Some are anti-abortion of course but the church, i makes it clear that pro-life also means anti-death penalty.

I say this as an agnostic. I grew up in the Catholic Church and my models were my grandparents who were devout and also generously volunteered their time, energy and money for social causes and they were never grandstandy about it. Social Catholic Thought is often overlooked because of the religiousity. The concept of living in community is often discredited as being communist, Anti-American when it is one the earliest stable sustainable community form in practice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. I have a friend who ties himself in knots over this.
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 04:50 PM by hifiguy
He's more Catholic than the pope and takes the social teachings very seriously. He's also something of a natural follower and wants to do what the hierarchy tells him to do. He seems to have fallen on the side of the social teachings because I know he hated Chimpy with a passion because of the Iraq war, voted for Kerry and for Obama. But the guy absolutely tortures himself over these issues.

At least he's falling on the right side. And the protestant fundies absolutely freak the shit out of him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. Many thanks for your posts of NCR articles, pnwmom
I really appreciate your efforts in getting the word out that there is much, MUCH more to Catholicism than the regressive Ratzofarian Magisterium regime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. You're welcome, musette. It's too bad Ted Kennedy isn't around
to remind more of us.

But we do have Joe Biden!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. True, and just like Joe,
I too take comfort in the Rosary. I hope Joe stays for 2012 campaign....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 08th 2024, 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC