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If boom and bust cycles are the nature of capitalism then doesn't that prove the system is broken?

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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:39 PM
Original message
If boom and bust cycles are the nature of capitalism then doesn't that prove the system is broken?
I mean how often does your computer have to crash before you get it replaced? It seems like capitalism crashes every couple of decades and has a major crisis ever other generation. It seems like the system itself has flaws that exist independent of the individual capitalists.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. kondratieff? sp?
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think boom and bust cycles are human nature
and not just something that happens in capitalism. The Fourth Turning describes boom and bust cycles going back hundreds and hundreds of years.

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CarmanK Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. The system just doesn't have institutional MEMORY!
And there are far too many people who come along thinking they are smarter than everyone else. And of course, as did Reaganites: they were going to fix the system. After all, govt regulations were curtailing the would be thieves on WALL STREET, taxation was FAIR and govt was actually functioning the way it was supposed to and in the mind of some, that was a problem. Capitalism was serving a vast majority of american citizens and a few were just not satisfied with their millions, they had to have billions. And of course, some transnational corporations just lusted after greater market share and more profits.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. That makes far too much sense.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. As long as more win than lose and have the power, it will roll on and on despite
the downs. Humans are about greed and capitalism feeds those compulsions IMO. IMO it's a broken system, does anyone seriously think this is the final financial system 'till the end of time ...

However, those holding the cash also hold the power, so it's not going to change much in my lifetime. We had a chance to make some changes for the better in 2008 and the opportunity was squandered.

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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. This last was not a normal cyclical recession
It was a massive (manufactured) financial crisis which brought on recession conditions.

That is why it is not responding in the usual way. Some economists have been stressing this and predict that it will take a long time to get out of.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I disagree with the "long time to get out of"
It was a manufactured crisis, as you said. It could last forever if the architects of it want it to...or it could be over tomorrow, if they so deemed it.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Capitalism doesn't produce anything, it steals from others
Edited on Tue Aug-16-11 04:08 PM by Hydra
So the fake booms and busts are basically there to make people believe it's a real system rather than outright robbery.

You wouldn't give your money to a highway robber, would you? What if he owned the bank, though?
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Interesting thought.
I have also suspected that the latest "crises" was manufactured in order to steal the very last drop from the workers.
However, throughout my lifetime whenever I start to get to the "middle class" a crises occurs, leaving me poor. Funny how the rich never lose.
Great examples from South Korea and Asia can be found in "Shock Doctrine"
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econoclast Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Lots of systems in nature have boom and bust periods as well
There was a 2008 paper in the journal Nature about just this point. Looking at population dynamics in many species one observes periods of stability punctuated by periods of volitile booms and busts. Does this mean that the natural population dynamics of these species is "broken?"

No. That is just how some natural processes work. Look at earthquakes. Tectonic plates moving past one another. Pressure builds and suddenly EARTHQUAKE!!! But plate tectonics and geology are not broken.

In fact, on can argur that Keynesian economics exacerbates the natural swings in the business cycle by PREVENTING the smaller variations that would actually HELP an economy grow in the same way that we now know small fires actually HELP a forest grow. Small fires - like mild recessions - clean out the underbrush and deadwood and create nutrients and space needed for the forest to grow and be healthy. PREVENTING these small fires sets the stage for a massive conflagration. Perhaps that is why we see booms and busts getting more volitile. The more countercyclical policies we employ the more we put off the needed reckoning day and make it worse when it eventually arrives.

Just a thought.

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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Recommend. n/t
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your are confusing business cycles with collapses caused by Republicans/Conservatives
If our elected leaders are causing economic collapses does that mean Democracy is broken?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Booms and busts are a nature of economic activity
and NOT exclusive to Capitalism
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. it's the essence of the system--you buy low (during the bust)
and sell high, during the boom. Then keep pumping it up and down. That's why they hate keynesian economics, becasue it found a way to avoid boom and bust and still have relative prosperity for all. Capitalisim hates that, they must have paupers and billionaires to stay alive!
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. With all the so-called "economic experts" in this country it sure seems like
NO ONE understands economics. It's almost as if the economy is a living breathing entity unto itself. NEVER in history have we been truly able to hold a steady economy for more than a decade. Why can't anyone truly figure out the economy?!
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Not only does it prove the system is broken, it proves the system has a
hormonal imbalance.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. A scientist would concede that.
But President Obama wouldn't.
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