The "rock bottom" strategy of letting the Republicans win to teach the public a lesson is terrorism.

1. "We want your money"

2 "we want you to work for free"

:wow:

Also, where is all that money coming from?

and in only 3 posts.

NAILED it!

I guess the OP learned that reaching too far in an act of desperation can sometimes make things EVEN WORSE.

To use fear on a life-threatening and indiscriminate scale to make people respond in a particular fashion to further an agenda.

It's not funny, actually.

My family and my friends are already suffering, we are all at risk.

x(

The OP is talking about liberals, and it appears he's talking about some liberals right here.

What you're calling correct isn't what the OP said, but what you are hoping the OP meant while he was saying something else. :think:

saying that it wouldn't be that horrible to have Perry as President since it would "wake the people up."

that is priceless! Thanks for the first, good guffaw of the day!

:rofl:

These are the weak arguments we get.

but there are "some threads" that don't need or deserve serious arguments.

You know, I think we all used to say that rhetorically branding someone as a terrorist was quite wrongheaded. But times change I see. Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder as we always knew.

It's kind of like Godwin. First person to scream terrorist only did so because they were out of other arguments.

:applause::rofl:

There are many people on the left and right who want to see things destroyed, in order to rebuild. Of course, how the systems are rebuilt is vastly different according to the left-wing and right-wing worldview.

But I see so many on the left, who want a better world (a government without so much corruption, a more compassionate society, etc.) have so much despair due to their own suffering and the suffering of others that they just want everything to collapse and everyone to suffer. Not because they are heartless but because they feel until things hit rock bottom it can't be rebuilt with integrity and civility.

On one hand I totally get that and empathize; on the other hand, I still believe we can reform systems without destruction and chaos.

Well, perhaps at one point we could have...

Still, those who cheer for destruction -- regardless of their reasons, some of which are valid -- can be seen insurgents, not sure about terrorists.


edit for typo

speaking only for myself... i can't speak for "everyone"...

but until everyone hurts, nothing is going to change. someone once said that americans are the most entertained, and the least educated people on earth. and it is true.

until people quit being distracted by temporary diversions (shitty, and CHEAP, reality shows, sports, latest technology, and the desire to have it - on credit of course, a media that's sole purpose is to sell by way of sex and sensationalism, GOSSIP that passes for news), and we get a media that will report what is REALLY going on, in all its complexities (we may be thick, but if you tell us slow enough most of us can connect the dots), enough of the democratic party will continue to vote for the lesser of two evils, meaning nothing will change.

the only way is to withdraw support for the party leadership in all its forms. the leadership will not respond, they spit on their base, knowing we have no place else to go.

then WE are painted as the traitors because we refuse to be a part of a "democratic party" that is turning against everything the party platform stands for.

while others throw up their hands, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and march into the voting booth and elect and reelect the very people who are perpetrating this fiasco. afterall, THAT is their plan. they KNOW you will do exactly that.

it may be that the only answer is to let the republicans have it for four years, and let them show their colors to even the most colorblind. it will be hell for four years, but anything they do can be undone, including impeaching the bastards they stuff the supreme court with (we should have already taken a few out).

impossible, you say? not if EVERYONE is hurting.

the problem is, most are kept just happy enough (or scared enough), and distracted enough, that absolutely nothing changes, EXCEPT the democratic leadership become more and more republican every day.

I DO NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS, no matter their costume.

you can sit back and point at me telling me I am the problem. and my quick retort is YOU are the problem.

and we can sling barbs back and forth while things continue to get worse.

oh, they are anyhow!1!1!. so why not just reelect those doing the dirty deeds.

either a democratic leader will actually have the gonads to step up to the plate (and apparently obama ain't it), or a third party that WILL step up to the plate, is needed.

it is far past the point of continuing "business as usual".

:applause:

(Edit to add that I used a poor choice of words when I said "cheer for destruction." That wasn't what I was trying to say, and I shouldn't have used that term, as I don't believe many people WANT that at all. Many simply feel it's what must happen in order for things to change.)

I agree with much of what you've said here. :)

I was responding to what I felt the OP was focused on, how some people -- as you pointed out -- feel that until everyone hurts (and, indeed, that entails suffering), things won't change. I said some feel that way "Not because they are heartless but because they feel until things hit rock bottom it can't be rebuilt with integrity and civility."

I get that. And, maybe I'm way off base, but many times insurgents are coming from the place of most integrity, battling against corruption, dictatorships, etc.

I didn't meant insurgent in a negative way, but to describe those fighting back, and I was trying to understand and explain why some do have the perspective of feeling "everyone must hurt" and things must crumble in order to rebuild.

I hope I explained myself better. I wasn't dissing anyone, as I see both perspectives.

:hi:

Nearly 10% unemployment, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Banks failing every week, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Stock market crashing, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Insurgents increase level of fighting in Afghanistan, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
More acts of violence committed in Iraq, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Credit card companies sitting on trillions of dollars of cash but not extending credit, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Home mortgages being repossessed at record rates, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Lowest rate of new homes being constructed in 58 years, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Infrastructure crumbling around our ears, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Corporations making record profits while not paying any federal taxes, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Oil spills in Gulf . . again, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
Global warming continuing at record pace, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.
More mountains being leveled at record pace, Republicans refusing to do anything about it.

And yet, somehow, in their heads, it's all President Obama's fault.

As if there is no such thing as Republicans.
As if there is no such thing as absolute "slash and burn" obstructionist tactics being used in the Senate by those Republicans.
As if they don't realize that Boehner is a Republican, who is in control of the House of Representatives.

As if President Obama has a magic wand!!!!!!

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In this case, if someone is informing you that you WILL get "worse RW policy" if you don't vote for the Democrat, that cannot be a threat, because the person informing you has no power to change that fact. It is merely a description of reality. It is no different than telling someone that they will get hurt if they touch a burning stove.

To have a threat, one needs voluntary action (usually conditioned on something else).

For example,

"I will do X" -- that could be terrorism or a threat or neither depending on what X is.

"I will do X if you don't do Y" -- same as above

"X will happen if you don't do Y, and it is out of my control" -- that by definition cannot even be a threat, let alone terrorism.

gets jammed in us.

terrorism, of course you are entitled to your viewpoint.

No one is entitled to their own definition.

Were the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy terrorism?

Was Romney care terrorism?

Is escalating war terrorism?

all of those are republican policy, no matter which side of the aisle now happens to be in favor of it.

Get it? Some of these policies, that happen to be the biggies, are now taken up under the democratic mantle.

People fighting against those "republican" "terroristic" policies are not the terrorists. We agree the ones promoting them are.

edit for sp and grammar

the country to hit "rock bottom" will "wake the people up," is the very definition of terrorism.

Well if that's all you got, then that's all you got.

seem to think so.

Even if that point is CONCEDED (solely for the sake of argument), the OP's point still stands. Voluntarily taking an action that maximizes the pain on others, under the theory that such pain will "wake people up" and change their future voting behavior, is the very definition of terrorism.

you're responsible for all that follows is a terrorist statement. Not holding the elected democrats for the problem is ridiculous.

known definitions, and those definitions cannot be rewritten just because you find it convenient for your argument.

that all Americans get burnt to the maximum extent possible (to "wake them up" and change their behavior).

with what is going on in our party. Voicing their dissatisfaction. It is fear mongering however to state "you'll get a republican run government because you're voicing dissatisfaction. " Some have even suggested primaries. What is you're solution anyway?

When 20% of the country self-identifies as liberal, with 40% self-identifying as conservative, liberal policy isn't going to get very far. It doesn't matter if conservatives actually have liberal views on various issues -- 90% of conservatives will vote for the Republican. That self-identification ratio needs to change.

I support doing what we can to move the PEOPLE to the left. This already has produced dividends where this is already the case -- see Sanders, Franken, Brown, et al. It has not produced dividends elsewhere, because there are far more conservatives than liberals. That needs to change before anything else changes.

I do not support government-by-hostage-taking. That applies to the Republicans who wanted to take the debt ceiling hostage, but it also applies to those who want to take the country hostage by enabling a Republican victory if their favored candidate doesn't win the Democratic primary.

to the right. I see you ok with that. If they touch SS or medicare it's over. Free trade agreements are hurting this country.

Perry would like to do not happening. They rely on it for their livelihood and in some cases their life. Those are the people who get punished by having Perry win. Not the politicans in either party who have plenty of money and would be unaffected by the destruction Perry would bring.