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The Third Way think tank's plan for Social Security is what Dems are using.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:36 PM
Original message
The Third Way think tank's plan for Social Security is what Dems are using.
It was proposed in January of this year. It was listed at the website of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

It calls for a change to the chained CPI, calls for cutting payroll taxes in half for older workers, wants to reach 70 as a retirement age by 2077, and to fully tax Social Security benefits for high income seniors. Considering we are not high income, and ours is taxed at 85% already...that just may happen.

After reading this I do believe that President Obama and all his debt committees/commissions got their game plan from The Third Way...the Democrats' new policy shop.

Third Way introduces new Social Security Reform plan

Yesterday, the organization Third Way released a plan outlining several Social Security reform proposals meant to ensure the program's solvency over the next 75 years. The plan, called Saving Social Security, makes several fundamental changes to the program and cuts $2 in benefits for every $1 it increases taxes. The authors of the plan describe it as "savings-led" and say that by approaching Social Security reform in a progressive way, it's possible to come up with "a solvency plan that would make Franklin Roosevelt proud".

The plan also calls for creating optional private retirement accounts for those in the workforce and under 30; it dedicates $8 billion per year to these accounts, with funds being raised by an increase in the Estate Tax.

....In an op-ed in Politico, the authors of the plan - Jim Kessler and David Kendall - explain the reasoning behind some of their proposals and offer very interesting insight, particularly in regards to the widely-held view that any Social Security reform that touches benefits is completely unacceptable. They also make several interesting observations about the idea of Social Security reform that is solely revenue-based. If you look at Social Security in isolation, maintaining its solvency through only increased revenue is theoretically possible. However, that view is unrealistic; Social Security needs to be viewed in the context of all federal government priorities. Viewed in this light, is maintaining the current level of promised Social Security benefits the very best use of increased taxes? You can only raise so much additional revenue, and funneling all of it into Social Security hinders the government’s ability to adequately fund other important priorities. This is why the authors maintain that Social Security reform must alter the trajectory of the program’s growth rather than simply financing it, and why the plan makes $2 in benefit cuts for every $1 it raises in revenue. As Mr. Kessler and Mr. Kendall state in their op-ed:

"It would be reckless to allow Social Security to take up the entire pool of what is potentially available to deal with the retirement of the baby boom generation...Social Security is one of the greatest liberal achievements. But many groups on the left have drawn a line in the sand that could doom it or set the nation on a course to fiscal ruins. Putting the weight of his Nobel Prize in economics behind this anti-reform coalition, New York Times columnist and Princeton professor Paul Krugman calls the Social Security crisis "invented" by "Social Security attackers" using "bad-faith accounting". Americans can be thankful that progressives such as Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Robert Greenstein of the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities have weighed in behind other serious approaches that include benefit cuts."


Consider me a part of those "groups on the left that have drawn a line in the sand".

If you can read that and have any doubts left as to the intention to privatize....one step at a time..then I have swamp land in my state to sell.

There is a list at the link of the things they want to do.

Though that was posted in January, the Third Way website has put it back up at the top of their homepage...as a reminder to us that their policy is the one being followed.

Remember that the group's founder, Jonathan Cowan, called publicly for the privatization of Social Security in 1995. Since then they are changing their words around, but not their intention.

A 1995 op ed from Third Way president on privatizing Social Security.

The time has come to reinvent Social Security based on a "cut and privatize" approach that will be fair to all age groups. This reinvention should be based on three principles:

Start immediately to lower boomers' expectations of the returns they will get and encourage them to increase private savings.

Separate out the welfare portion of Social Security and pay out poverty benefits to today's--and tomorrow's--needy seniors from general government revenues.

Idea #3 is to lower the Social Security payroll to 10% (where the heck was it in 1995...isn't it 6.2 now?) and "give workers the option of putting their money into private pension programs that offer far higher returns and sounder prospects than today's Social Security system."


Looks like the false centrists have made progress on their plans while calling it everything but privatization.





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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. These groups (and the WH) sure go out of their way to make it complicated
Edited on Sun Aug-21-11 02:44 PM by DJ13
Raise or eliminate the payroll cap is all thats needed, provided their real goal is sustainability and not a reduction in benefits so they can skip out on repaying the trust fund for all those tax cuts they lavished on the wealthy the last 30 years.

We're being lied to.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Did you notice the part where it said not to consider SS by itself?
It must be put into the BIG PICTURE that they describe.

They want to spend MORE on something in that BIG PICTURE of theirs. They don't want to adjust spending on what else is in that big picture...like a defense industry that spends 20x what our closest international competitor spends.

DON'T LOOK AT SS REASONABLY. LOOK AT IT THE THIRD WAY, the way that accepts military spending as a huge fraction of spending is OK, but that thinks that your grand children when they are old and gray should be helped much much less.

Who profits from that?



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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. With their plan they can shovel money into Wall Street. By raising the
caps we actually save the Big 3.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. "optional private" retirement accounts for those in the workforce and under 30
Will quickly become "mandatory"
AND
the reason there is STILL a push for people to use "retirement accounts" is so the government/banks can steal the money.
Which is exactly what happened to my generation's 401-k, etc and SS.
They are hoping that those 30 and younger are too stupid and forgetful to learn from the current theft.

If you love your children and grandchildren, tell them to NOT donate a "hidden tax" to future theives.

And no, I am not using hyperbole.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. I would END Social Security before EVER privatizing it!
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Are they going the wrong direction?
They are proposing people work to 70? Why not go the other way? This would open jobs for the younger citizens.

Shoot, how many are going to make it to 70? Granted, many will live longer than before, but we also have a lot of people dying much younger...40s and 50s. Watch the obits.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think they are going the wrong way. They only care about profit...
and saving money. This austerity stuff is way out of hand here and around the world.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. They don't care if we all work
In fact, by the time I get to 70(big if, there) I fully expect that there will be nothing in SSI and I'll have to work until the day I die.

The other part is that they don't care how many of us fall in the process. This isn't about making a better world, it's about making the slavery even more obvious.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. Or if we all CAN'T work. Operative term = "They don't care."
Edited on Mon Aug-22-11 11:29 AM by WinkyDink
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
51. Yes they are...Retired at Seventy?...Bullshit...That's too old.
The Europen countries retire people much earlier..They were effing RIOTING in

France because the government was pushing their retirement age from sixty to sixty two!

Do they think we are SO stupid or uninformed that we do not COMPARE our situation with theirs,

or do they think most of us have bought the RW garbage about Europe being "socialist"?

Keep going, Third Way...You'll screw up the Democratic Party until we don't RECOGNIZE it anymore

We're almost there NOW....We've got to fight to make sure these bastards don't ruin everything!

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
68. Seriously, I tell my recent college grad friends this all of the time
It's hard enough to get an entry level job as it is. Why the hell would you want people sticking around for five more years, making it even harder?

Republicans are simply outraged that anybody might be on the government dole, even if those people have contributed to funding that dole at some point in their lives. The fact is that the economy isn't structured to employ 100% of the population, nor is it structured for the vast majority of those not employed to accumulate enough wealth to be able to live without assistance if they are not employed.

You can try to purge as many anecdotal "welfare queens" as you can find, but the dole is a fact of life. There's simply no reason for people to be working until they are on their death bed.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Those who influence the controlling narrative control us...
Sad but true. Politicians are only following directions.










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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Recommend
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. k&r
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Third Way septic tank is full of trickle down economics and Republican turds.
Amazingly, progressives on the left are excoriated by the "leaders" of the party for threatening the "unity" of the party while these termites gnaw away at the vitals and are patted on the head for the "New" ideas that are merely rehashed Republican strategies given "New" packaging.

:puke:
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. If they raised the SS income tax cap to 150K, problem solved. Their approach is too complex.
There'd be more than enough money raised to ensure against insolvency for a lifetime with no major structural changes to the program.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. They don't want to solve the problem, they just want our
money. I completely agree with you - raising the cap is the logical thing to do if you truly want to protect the program.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:29 AM
Original message
THANK YOU. THIS IS THE DIRTY SECRET: IT ISN'T ABOUT "FIXING" ANYTHING.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
61. Nope. Just smoke and mirrors, helping to obfuscate the fact that THEY WANT THE $$$$.
NT
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
46. More like...
They don't want to pay back the money to Social Security that they spent on Tax cuts for the wealthy and crooked contractors (the later group should be gracing prison cells).
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PonyJon Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Also, since employers very seldom provide retierment benefits
these days, maybe they should pay SS on all employee earnings (not just to the current maximum).
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. That's what I'd prefer.
All income should be subject to FICA taxes with no ceiling.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. they don't want to solve the problem
it is their agenda to transfer more wealth to Wall Street and the investor class.
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lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. Solvency isn't the goal, ending SSI is the aim
they want all our money in Wall St. so the rich can steal everything all at once. They are tired of the piecemeal process that occurred in 2008.

That Obama supports this just plain sickens me. I wonder how much he's getting paid under the table to destroy the Democratic party and the working class?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. We shall see where he lives, post-DC.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
57. +1000% ---
Thom Hartmann was talking about either Boehner or McConnell last week --

saying that they will probably retire from Congress into Koch Bros jobs

at $5 million a year --


Also, lobbists are being huge amounts -- and there are 37,000 of them now in DC --

in JFK years there were less than 200! Minimum salary is around $300,000 per year --

an ex-Senator will be paid $1 million a year!!



Can we simply uninvent the dollar bill?


:evilgrin:

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
56. True -- and should be raised to $250,000 or cap removed entirely ....
These are misiscule amounts vs huge earnings --

And notice this from a report on Yahoo today -- where the need for assistance

keep growing --



Social Security disability on verge of insolvency


http://news.yahoo.com/social-security-disability-verge-insolvency-090119318.html
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Third way is and always has been a false flag Republican operation
They are only considered Democrats because they say they are, they say they are just to get Republican policies into both parties.
Don't fall for it.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. I'm not anymore. NO Democrat goes after SS, Medicare, unions, teachers. NO Democrat supports illegal
Edited on Mon Aug-22-11 11:35 AM by WinkyDink
wars, torture, privatization of public monies.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. And, of course, there's no debate. Where are the DUers arguing for what a good deal we got?
There sure are plenty of them in other threads. Why not in the ones where there's evidence like this?

Well, at that point they drag out the poll that says over 50% of somebody wants Obama to be more conservative anyways.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. The Third Way (DLC 2.0) and their Neo-Con cousins need to
get every penny of ours into the hands of their banker masters.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. knr - FISA bill, Health Reform bill - Third Way has been there :( n/t
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. And they just love the new
free trade pacts too.

"Third Way Salutes Obama Administration and Congress for Korea, Colombia and Panama Agreements"

http://www.thirdway.org/press_releases/161
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes they do and have been pushing advocating for them, part of the new jobs program. n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Reverse Robin Hood by any other name...
...is still making the rich richer and the middle class poor. That is the Turd Way.

Thank you for an outstanding post andn thread, madfloridian.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Here's what the Turd Way wants us to do:
1) Shut our damned, whiny mouths.

2) Bend over.

3) Firmly grasp our ankles.

4) Grit our teeth...

Thanks, madfloridian for all of your activism (I will be homeless before Sept 30. Selling all of my stuff only buys me an extra week, because most people can't afford to 'spend' in this, our second great depression).
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Chervilant..
Are you really going to be homeless?...You have nowhere to go?

Please tell me your situation, by PM, if you want...I may be able to help you

in the same way I was able to help another DUer here once.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. The Third Way is the Democratic Party's Tea Party
They were just smarter.
THe Third Way are a small group of corporate owned political hacks that have captured the Democratic Party's mechanisms.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. well said!
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-11 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. Privatizing Social Security: Wall Street robs the final $
401Ks enabled Wall Street to decimate pensions and now they will pocket Social Security. Wall Street is legalized gambling with the odds 99% in favor of the "house' which rigs the system.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. I really detest the Third Way group. Their way was outdated already in the 90's.
Then it was called The New Democrats.

They promoted the Free Trade which has been so costly to the majority of us.
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ctsnowman Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
27. Yeah right.
"give workers the option of putting their money into private pension programs that offer far higher returns"

Like the 401K that my employer and I have been pouring money into only to see it go down? Pfft. I will not go quietly into the night.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. The Third Way and the Republicans are Setting Up a Corporate Controlled Government
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Fascism.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. yup...
I figured I'd be more descriptive rather than just call it fascism. Notice how folks in this government are promoting the same economic bullshit that has gotten us all to this point... in fact they are now saying, "Full steam ahead!"
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
31. K & R
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
32. Dear Boomers, thanks for paying into the Greatest Gen's retirement, now Go Cheney Yourself, love 3rd
Way
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. Excellent insight! Yes, now that the Boomers are ABOUT to collect,.....
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
33. what about the Orszag budget?
no cites available now, but fdl had an old article about how, in 2009, Obama stated plans to "save"
Soc Sec and Medicare, which supposedly came out of Orzag's and Brookings Inst budget.
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
34. My son asked why they want a name that sounds like the Third Reich!! Out of the mouth of babes!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. It meshes well with "The Homeland," does it not?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. REC AND KICK. nt
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
37. Oh, this is definitely the beach-head. I don't care that I won't see 2049, let alone 2077. This is
WAR.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
44. We know the Koch boys funded the DLC
and their fingerprints are all over this one, too.

Face it, while big money infects the party, everything that makes this country better than a feudal state will be under attack and no one can win without big money these days.

That's the main thing the founding fathers missed when they drafted the constitution, a remarkable document that failed to publicly fund elections.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
48. ....and so begins the dark ages...
:evilfrown:
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Erose999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
49. private pension programs that offer far higher returns and sounder prospects than today's Social Sec

bwahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah.

This is complete bullshit, if the events of the past 12 months are taken into consideration.

Yeah, trust your retirement money to fucking Wall Street. Because the "free market" is totally safe.

Fucking Third Way. What a bunch of stupid assholes.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
50. Of course you all looked at just who they and and who the co-chairs are didn't you.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. "Third Way" my ass...sounds like the same old way if you ask me.
Screw the ones who need help the most and help the rich!!

Nothing new here...or nothing remotely helpful for most of us.

Bastids.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Third Way=Reagan Democrats=Kochheads
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R Your research is what DU needs.
Not lists. Not blue redirects. Not WH press office productions.

It is sad. But your journey is the one we all need to take. I guess it depends on whether you want the blue pill or the red pill.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
58. If someone now could remove the cap on payroll tax, cutting payroll tax rates might be ok...
Edited on Mon Aug-22-11 01:32 PM by cascadiance
If a stealth plan could be in place to in two steps:

1) cut payroll tax rates to give economic boost now to those most taxed by payroll tax who make less than $106k.

2) completely remove the cap for payroll tax so that everyone is taxed at the new lower flat tax rate for ALL of their income...

This could be a smart way to remove the cap and not have to use a donut hole in the middle to keep Obama's commitment to not raise taxes on those making less than $250k (if the newer payroll tax rate taxed on 100% of someone earning $250k is the same as that amount that used to be taxed on the first $106k). Then they wouldn't have to pass both of those changes at once, which might be harder to get through congress. Now, the wingers will try to still say that the Dems are trying to raise taxes on those making less than $250k later, even if it is only restoring what they used to have to pay before the payroll tax cuts went in to effect.

Now, I emphasize that it *could* be a smart way to do this. Without the second step happening, step 1 is clearly an attempt to weaken the funds for SS and Medicare's solvency. The question is how much do you trust someone in the DLC and the Turd Way to do this. I don't. But if we can get someone in to change gears and use this payroll tax cut as a means to get an overall tax change to payroll tax to preserve the stimulus of a cut, but keep it solvent by taxing everyone the same flat percentage, then we might be doing something right.

I think this is a case where a decent progressive caucus could hijack this state of affairs to do this plan and subsequently implement step 2 if they are given a lot more power in the 2010 elections, and twist Obama's arm to do it their way instead of the Turd Way then!
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
59. Third Way is disgusting...how do we know this is what they're using though?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
60. If you ever saw that George Carlin video, be assured, he was NOT kidding.
Edited on Mon Aug-22-11 02:07 PM by closeupready
They WANT to take your retirement money, and they are GOING to take your retirement money. Why are there any remaining questions?
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padruig Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
62. I don't GROK this ...
I really don't GROK the "Third Way" meme ...

As a nation we are stronger by our diversity, our capacity to see beyond limits and our grasp of the basic importance of good health care, good education and good environments (both rural and urban)

So this kind of 'compromise' more than mildly stupid if all your going to do is reconcile a left that isn't on the left anymore and a right that is so far right that you have to wonder what their true agenda is.

Anyone who even thinks of touching (or restructuring Social Security), Medicare and Medicaid is going to have a fight on their hands.

This is NOT an entitlement, these are the basic social safety net of our nation, for our elderly, our disadvantaged, for the weaker among us wherever they may live.

To quote John Kenneth Galbraith

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
64. more here on Orszag budget and Soc Sec cuts:
Edited on Mon Aug-22-11 03:08 PM by amborin
Orszag:

"......Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, the co-chairs of the fiscal commission due to report at the beginning of December, have both expressed a desire to restore solvency to Social Security. And Republican leaders have previously expressed a willingness to tackle the issue too."

Restore solvency? Uh, Social Security is not insolvent; it has a surplus of over $2.5 trillions which will ensure 100 percent payments on all scheduled benefits for nearly three decades, and at least 75-80 percent of scheduled benefits indefinitely thereafter. At no time will Social Security become “insolvent,” but using that term is exactly the type of misrepresentation — from the likes of Peterson, Knowles and Simpson — that poses the greatest threat to the most important safeguard seniors have. And Orszag know this.

But Peter Orszag isn’t finished misrepresenting the facts. He next claims:

"The left, though, seems adamantly opposed to restoring actuarial balance to Social Security now. . . .

Given the left’s strident opposition to any serious discussion of Social Security reform, the issue will provide a key early indicator of the administration’s response to the election results.


more here on the Orszag budget plan:

http://firedoglake.com/2009/02/12/obama-social-security... /

http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2010/11/04/peter-or... /


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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. Third Way/Same Old Way
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Nice link to the Tall Grass Activist blog.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. Excellent post. As I have said many times before
Third way is just a third way of saying Dino.
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
67. We see who these "New" Democrats/Third Way'ers are:
Republicans pretending to be Democrats to advance GOP Legislation. Ever notice how "bi-partisanship" only goes one way? We NEVER get Liberal/Progressive Legislation by "moving to the Center/being bi-partisan." We only get some version of what the GOP wanted all along, like 98% of their Wish List, and the WH calls it a "win." "Bi-partisanship" with the insane Teabag GOP is a fools errand. And Obama's no fool.
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freshstart Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-24-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
70. SS rates
"where the heck was it in 1995...isn't it 6.2 now?" It is 6.2 for the employer contribution and it was 6.2 for the employee until Obama reduced the employee contribution to 4.2.

The 6.2 rate began in 1990.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html

The 10% they are looking at is probably the employee and employer contribution combined.

I think that what they are after is reducing the employer's contribution. First employers took away worker's pensions, now employers don't want to contribute to worker's SS either. I don't like that Obama chose this of all things to reduce. Pretty soon they'll reduce the employer's contribution and then they'll say that SS is broke. And, when they go to "private plans" it will probably go the same way that pensions did, employers are constantly reducing their matching funds to pensions.
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