Does anyone here give even the smallest of flying fucks that we're still fighting bush's wars?

"Shadow Wars", do not look behind the curtain, because that prevents holding anyone responsible.

Technically Libya only counts as half shadow, shall we call it dusk? We were and are currently more involved then the US admits.

Bush responded to 9/11 by going pro-poppy-grower, no interdiction, anti-War-on-Drugs-partner Taliban.

Prior to 9/11 Bush was financing the Taliban WoD effort that wiped out 90% of poppy/heroin production. Clinton had pressured Pakistan to drive the poppy growers out in 1997-1998. So the operation and the fight against them moved north.

By 2005 there was a Bush flood of heroin coming out of the Ghan. Also producing a HIV+ plague in Eastern Europe and Russia, producing addicts all over the world. Heroin cheaper than good booze.

NATO/ISAF stepped in and interdiction got a priority in the ISAF areas. Bush lagged, of course.

Obama comes in and by March 2009 the priority went over to destroying the heroin production shops and setting up bribery to knock down the poppies. Apparently Biden had figured out what was happening. Such as the Haqqani gang had been financing the "war" locally to weaken central government and facilitate their drug operations.

Confusing Taliban with the drug gangs is a dominant theme for American news outlets, acquired from stupid American military people.

Now the big money for poppy/heroin is in trouble across much of Afghanistan. One Karzai is dead and another 50 drug kingpins are dead. Traditional local elders have means to hold their own with U.S.-provided/armed SWAT units. Hundreds of poppy-to-heroin shops have been busted up. THe AP3/ALP program is implemented nationally and payments go out for verified poppy destruction in all the high-yield areas.

It's a DRUG WAR.

Taliban? ? They were an ally for the Clinton/Bush War on Drugs. Despite Bush, they never ever backed Binladen for anything like attacking America. Omar arrested Binladen twice and offered to try and execute him for the African embassy bombings. As of July, 2001, Taliban was pro-American, as far as politics in the area allowed -- their people had come over and toured Texas and California and liked what they saw.

At present this is a war that seems to be generated by Pakistan's IIS to justify getting $3-billion a year in anti-terrorism money. A small war, a small baksheesh. For the Kandahar Taliban there is no point to this at all.

unconstitutional Patriot act

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I expected Obama to do more when he became President. This has been an extreme disappointment, that he hasn't followed the Democratic principals that we expected.

I heard somewhere that there's going to be an anti-war demonstration in Washington this month

of today.

Americans, Democrats included, seem to be so brainwashed into accepting war as being diplomacy (or as Orwell said peace), that if our President says we need to stay in Iraq for ___ (fill in the blank) more years, in Afghanistan until 2024, occupy or drone into oblivion Libya, Yemen, Somalia or who knows maybe even Mexico, just like sheep, Americans accept it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwyEeCwtweE&feature=relmfu?du

On the tenth anniversary of the war in Afghanistan, thousands unite at Freedom Plaza, demanding that politicians take notice. They say their message is loud and clear: stop reckless spending on wars abroad and stop corporate corruption which they say benefits a privileged few. Protesters say this is just the beginning and they plant to occupy DC until they see some real change.

take, follow the money trail. A lot of powerful people are getting very wealthy from these wars. It's all about the money IMO.

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those fighter engines and other equipments they supply the US govt is one reason the wars will never end unless we elect an ANTI war with a upper case A president

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8↑

there is no reason for them to be there anymore. The reasons to send them have changed or never existed.

this will be a war that the guys and gals who return will have no jobs waiting for them.

:shrug:

A Republican President would ramp them up again.

Got any?

the numbers of mercenaries to take the places of any us military personnel and, in the case of Iraq, the military personnel of the occupation are also being augmented with State Dept. "security," personnel.

Reading is your friend, unless you only read the Pentagon's press releases, or Obama Campaign press releases.

I guess you missed the first couple ramp ups and re-funding by our supposed representatives prior to the campaing announcements of alleged withdrawal from those occupations.

Low information voters are the bane of our democracy.

being jerks, as in the rage at Rahm calling ideas elfin' retarded. Your post is a classic in that regard.

You have already reached some odd conclusions and expect others to just go along with your long thought out methods of changing the meanings of words so that you can claim the wars are being ramped up. But hardly anyone accepts that framing. You can't convince people by assuming they accept your framing or calling them stupid if they don't.

If it ever was there. This is about American imperialism. The last superpower, or something.

All I see is hemorrhaging. Blood, treasure, hopes, dreams...the future itself.

I know what you mean, though. When a Dem is doing it, spying, droning, torturing, extrajudicial killing and everything else is perfectly fine.

I've given up on America having a moral center. That wasn't the case at the founding, and it's not the case now.

End the fugging wars and use the money for American infrastructure

At least the foreign media outlets actually talked about it.

It is very important to me, and I am very, very discouraged to see so many Democrats giving Obama a free pass on this, or even worse, cheering him on for MORE war. Honestly, I think the whole Democratic "opposition" to Bush's wars was bullshit in the first place. Most Congressional DEMS (and most repukes, but come on...)voted FOR the IWR in 2003. They just pretended to be against it later to win votes. scum, all of them.

President Obama marked the 10th anniversary of the Afghanistan war with a paper statement praising the U.S. military and pledging to follow through on plans to turn over the nation's security to the Afghans themselves by 2014.

"After a difficult decade, we are responsibly ending today's wars from a position of strength," Obama said.

"As the rest of our troops come home from Iraq this year, we have begun to draw down our forces in Afghanistan and transition security to the Afghan people, with whom we will forge an enduring partnership," the president added.

The president largely avoided the controversy surrounding the war, but he did reference "the enormous challenges that remain in Afghanistan." He praised the U.S. military effort that began shortly after the 9/11 attacks.

"Thanks to the extraordinary service of these Americans, our citizens are safer and our nation is more secure," Obama said.

the whole paper statement is here:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/10/obama-we-are-ending-afghanistan-war-responsibly/1?csp=34news?du

Nt

n/t

Sid

yup

My god!



http://costsofwar.org/article/lost-jobs

Taxpayers in The United States have paid $1.3 trillion for Total War Spending (Iraq + Afghanistan) Since FY01. For the same amount of money, the following could be provided:

580.3 million Annual Energy Costs for a Household for One Year OR
646.0 million Children Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
18.6 million Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
122.0 million Fair Market Rent for One Bedroom Apartment for One Year OR
21.1 million Firefighters for One Year OR
165.8 million Head Start Slots for Children for One Year OR
543.7 million Households Converted to All Solar Energy for One Year OR
1.1 billion Households Converted to All Wind Energy for One Year OR
161.6 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
602.2 million One Year Worth of Groceries for an Individual OR
259.2 million People Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
18.1 million Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officers for One Year OR
159.9 million Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
227.1 million Students receiving Pell Grants of $5550

http://costofwar.com/en/tradeoffs/state/US/program/1/tradeoff/0

Wish the OWS people paid more attention to this issue.

among all of what they already intuitively know. Specifics like these are good though. It really puts things in clear perspective. I think the typical American still hasn't learned to see what we've been trading off domestically for more than a decade in just war-spending alone.

The Washington/Wall Street embedded media driven narrative for years has been deficits and cutting domestic spending, education, safety nets etc and never goes near this subject above. I do think, like you, it is a very fundamental part of the discussion and fully belongs in the message.

If I could only carry one sign at OWS, it would probably be one with a link to either the Cost of War website or the companion National Priorities Project, which has more hard economic data than ever could- or would be- processed by msm spin meisters.

I think about this everyday. I can't believe the insanity of being at war for the last 10 years. Let's start using the money for green jobs, infrastructure and education.

Tough!!!!, it is an election season after all!

Besides, as long as our troops are only minimally getting themselves dead, what does it matter who our drones drop hellfires on?

I am sure those around the targets were asking for it anyways.

:sarcasm:

a lot of people here are now FOR Bush's wars since they are now Obama's wars. I still wonder why the same wars so many on DU railed against back then are so popular here now. It's just weird.

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You're 100% right.

I didn't want to frame it that way and get called a "hater". As if continuing wars was a reason to love someone.

won't let a poster unrec their own thread. Who knew? :shrug:

Not that I see much hope in Obama anymore; it's apparent he's their buddy at this point...
Still, I continue to hope that we'll eventually see some real prosecutions of those assholes who
led us to all this madness in the first place...


http://steponnopets.dxstoneweb.com/peo/sn_goldensh.html">Trickle-Down 101: Alan Greenspawn Forecasts Golden Showers For All!






I'm not sure we should've let it get so big, and ugly, and EVIL...
not sure that was the best idea, nope.


http://steponnopets.dxstoneweb.com/peo/fascism.html">Fascism is FUN!

I often feel pretty hopeless these days... yet somehow I still look forward to THIS day:



(edited to add:) K&R! Stinky, YOU DA CLOWN! :toast:

are the owners of those wars. Successive leaders can stop them, but the initiator holds title to the conflict.

PO needs to step up the the timetable to ending our involvement...but these will always be "bush's wars".

I thought they were all over and done with. If you keep up with news here at least. The only thing I am aware of is our humanitarian efforts all over the world. Anti-war protesting is a thing of the past. Those efforts and people now focus on rainbows and ponies for all.

my opinion.

The silence from liberal groups is whats deafning. These wars got to stop and they have to stop now. I used to think Obama needed a right cover to end it but he expanded it without any right or leeft cover

Occupy Wall Street. What Wars and Socialism for Corporations Are Costing You.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/06/1023298/-Occupy-Wall-Street-What-Wars-and-Socialism-for-Corporations-is-Costing-You

the conflicts that were ongoing at the time of the change, and has added new ones.

Obama owns these conflicts now.