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Has anyone here read Daniel Quinn's 'Ishmael'?

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banned from Kos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-11 11:21 PM
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Has anyone here read Daniel Quinn's 'Ishmael'?
Ishmael is a 1992 philosophical novel by Daniel Quinn. It examines mythology, its effect on ethics, and how that relates to sustainability. The novel uses a style of Socratic dialogue to deconstruct the notion that humans are the end product, the pinnacle of biological evolution. It posits that human supremacy is a cultural myth, and asserts that modern civilization is enacting that myth.

Ishmael was awarded the $500,000 Turner Tomorrow Fellowship Award. The book is the first of a trilogy including The Story of B and My Ishmael.


(Wiki)

Sustainability is the most important issue of our time.

Agree/Disagree?
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OxQQme Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-11 12:48 AM
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1. Yes
Read both books.
Human's entitlement seemed to start up by the discovery of agriculture, which caused a population explosion, which needed more land for the food needed to support the increased population, hence forcibly moving onto neighbor's land, mostly by force or coercion. Nationalism and pride of being the stronger followed.
Very strong argument for this thesis.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-11 02:07 AM
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2. Agree, but by the unreccs here it's obvious
that some people don't think that a functioning life sustaining ecosystem is a priority. :eyes:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-11 04:25 AM
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3. In the long run, what matters (or, "mattered") but sustainability?
And clearly, the way we're doing things nowadays, ain't sustainable.

For example, exponential population growth can *NEVER* be sustainable.

Tesha
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-11 09:33 AM
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4. Yes, Ishmael was crucial to my re-emergence into hope.
Edited on Sun Oct-09-11 10:06 AM by GliderGuider
Before I read Quinn's work I had spent about three years convinced that humanity was an irredeemably broken species, doomed to self-destruction by our evolved neuro-psychology. Quinn helped me understand the role that myths and cultural narratives play in the the formation and support of our world-view. He helped me see that we are not broken, but our stories are profoundly mistaken and dysfunctional. In addition, he pointed out that cultural narratives - our stories about who we are - can be changed, and that we can change our cultural attitudes by changing our stories.

Once I understood that, I began to look around and see with with fresh eyes all the people who are already telling those new stories. BQ (Before Quinn) I thought they were all just hopelessly deluded romantics. AQ I realized that they are the pathfinders, and vowed to become one of them.

Sustainability is inevitable, but it will require profound changes in human numbers and activity levels. Because of the social inertial of a global industrial civilization containing seven billion people, sustainability cannot be achieved immediately - and perhaps not even voluntarily. That means the damage we're doing to our planet will continue, probably for another 30 to 50 years, before things really change.

But change they will, and the more of us who start telling new stories about ourselves, our world, and the relationship between the two, the faster and easier that change will come.

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