Before I run in the Chicago Marathon I will give you a big FUCK YOU VERY MUCH to Occupy Atlanta. . .

. . .for its treatment of Rep. John Lewis. Dammit. . .I need to focus on my run and I see how these assholes treat Rep. Lewis and I almost wanted to cry. Hey occupy movement DO NOT TURN YOUR ALLIES INTO YOUR ENEMIES!

I have absolutely no idea what is going on in that video. I couldn't get past the crowd repeating everything the speaker was saying.

Edit: Never mind. Just saw this link to a synopsis from Salon http://politics.salon.com/2011/10/09/john_lewis_i_support_ows_protesters/

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as OWS is not allowed to use megaphones, etc., the way to spread the word of a speaker is for the immediate crowd around the speaker to repeat what he says, then the people behind those repeat what is said and so on - the message gets carried likes waves from a pebble dropped in water.

I figured that was what was going on but I didn't know it was because the groups aren't allowed to use megaphones.

;)

but I have a sneaking suspicion you were going to be upset at the Occupy folks no matter how flimsy the excuse.

anything actually progressive doesn't sit well with the DLC.

Georgia will always be the hateful south. There is a mean spirit there that is worse than Mitch McConnell in a hood. However at the same time they opened their arms for a visit from Hannity.

http://blogs.ajc.com/business-beat/2011/10/08/whatll-ya-have-sean-hannity/?cxntlid=thbz_hm

The comments are after the article.

How could any group refuse to let John Lewis speak?

democratic process of the 99% and I'm a big Lewis supporter

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What happened here was not intentional disrespect to Rep. Lewis from the crowd (it was clear the majority wanted him to speak), it was consensus run amok.

I used to work in a consensus-based organization. About 30 staff, who had all been in the trenches with each other, and shared a pretty common value-set. Even then, reaching consensus was messy and frustrating.

Trying to reach real consensus with several hundred strangers show a deep lack of understanding of how the consensus process works.

When you are dealing with a disparate group, most of whom are strangers to each other, it's best to go with "practical consensus".

(Which, in truth, is not really consensus, but a "super-majority" of 66, 75, or 90%)It's not perfect, but it's far better than "leaders decide" or "50%+1".

You simply CANNOT do true consensus with a large group of strangers, there will always be at least one to block anything (either because they can, or because they have their own agenda).

Fuck-up on the facilitator's and leadership committee's part, not intentional dis-respect to Rep. Lewis.

Major fuck up.

It didn't help that, and you can tell by watching the same hands go up for competing proposals, that people seemed confused about either how to vote or what they were voting on. And I know the intent was disrespectful, but the action was.

That happens. It's hard to get consensus sometimes. But I'll say this much. I would've been blocking every single proposal for the next 15 minutes just to make a point about what happened there.

Occupy movements... They are part of the problem... However, John Lewis is an amazing soul; and the group surely lost out on not listening to words of encouragement and solidarity from a leader and a Congressman... Eventually the grievances will have to be taken to those in Gov that make the law.

Perhaps he should have just participated or found out when general speaking was so that the group wouldn't be conflicted with the first days of testing out "democracy" or what not. Wasn't this the first day for Occupy Atlanta?

Watching the entire video just seems as though it was really a bad timing issue to make general speeches in the middle of a "meeting"... I doubt the Congress would break from one of their meetings to listen to one of our speeches. AND they represent us. So, had he participated and listened to the assembly, he would learn more about what is needed at the DC level.

Because we do as much work hurting ourselves as they do, and we invest brainpower into the effort.

and they clearly were following a scheduled agenda.

Ugg---and double ugg.

Speak now.... Voted yes

Speak later.. Voted yes

Speak later was not an option for Rep. Lewis.

You can see a woman asking to clarify the proposal.

The MC made a mistake.

I make at least on mistake daily.

Oops one.

Best of luck on your run.

I refuse to give them the satisfaction that they can charge me for the use of my own money with this new debit card charge and then expect me to support their advertising effort as a race sponsored. I realize I'm probably the only one that pulled out because of this. I just had this vision that wouldn't it be cool if they put on this marathon and no one participated because of this new charge. That would have really made a statement.

I imagine a lot of people are backhanding BofA right back for their own reasons.

as he passes his favorite bank on his run for other DUers.

you should run the marathon and encourage other people to sign up...it costs them a fortune, they lose money on it. They do it for the advertising, they get that if 1000 or 10000 or 100000 people participate. The bigger the attendance the larger the bill, it increases exponentially as the attendance rises. (I was involved with SunTrust's planning of the DC marathon for 2 years, I've seen the bills. If 100000 people ran DC, it'd have cost us millions...for just one example: the more people, the more police officers and EMTs per person we're required to have...we're not allowed to deplete the duty roster of W.DC either so once we hit what we can get from DC we have to contract with other municipalities which means we're probably going to be on-the-tab for police and EMS O/T) Marathons are not cheap.

Then get running shirts or t-shirts for your "team" (You could be team Fuck BofA!); the course finish line and all along the course is littered with reporters. Feel free to chat them up, such a provocative team name will get you some attention. Use the propaganda vehicle of your enemy against them. Why should the filthy bank be allowed to deprive you of your joy of running the marathon?

Let me guess, you also criticize this movement because you think the protesters are flaky and disorganized.

In reality, they are trying to stay on topic and get through their agenda.

No one's voice is more important than another's. If he isn't on topic to an issue being discussed, then he shouldn't be able to speak at GA.

If he wants to speak, he needs to do it on their terms, later in the meeting, or at a rally or some other specific event where it is planned for someone like him to speak.

They didn't silence him - he interrupted their meeting at the wrong time.

This type of democratic meeting is tedious as hell for sure, I've been to the GAs at a different site. But there is a reason for this - it is reaching consensus - and there is no way that *any* congressperson trumps the desire of the group to get through their agenda.

The GOP media is making this out to be something it wasn't. Far from being a disorganized mob, these people were very organized, and running their meeting by consensus. You're also correct in that it was tedious. Tedious to watch, and it must have been quite tedious to actually sit through that entire GA, what with all the repeating of every sentence by the assembly. But in the, Lewis interrupted the meeting and it was the consensus that he wait his turn -- he was in no way "shouted down," as the media wants people to believe.

is so tedious but they have to do it. The 'people's mic' gets mixed reviews from me - it does keep people engaged, it does help the people in the back hear what's going on, but it also makes everything take longer.

Having been to a few of the GA meetings in Chicago I have some criticism of the meetings, the organizational structure and so forth (every site is different so I am reluctant to extrapolate that to the greater movement), I think it is important to keep a constructively critical perspective, HOWEVER it is ridiculous to use this particular incident as an example of something being wrong.

I think people just don't get it - a congressperson has a platform to be heard all the time, this meeting had a specific purpose, he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I think he understood that, I don't understand why other people don't.

The occupations are 24/7. The meetings are an hour or two a day. Any other time of the day he could have grabbed a megaphone and made a speech.

Go on with your bad self then. Tell BofA hello for us. :hi:

bought and paid for government that protesters are fighting. That was Democracy in action.

How many times have Code Pink members gone into Congressional hearings and been BRUTALLY/non-Democratically thrown/dragged out of the room...by DEMOCRATS holding the hearings? It happens ALL THE TIME. He just got a taste of how THE PEOPLE/peons are treated by the bought and paid for Government. Only that was a kinder, gentler version of how they treat their bosses...US (they DO work for us). I'm sorry that happened to him, but that shit happens to people who protest Congressional hearings all the time. It's really hard to feel sorry for him....as much as I like and respect him.

Seriously. The government refuses to listen to us. Why should they be afforded the honor of being heard by the people they work for?

at just about any other time of day. But the GA meetings are for specific issues/announcements/proposals/decision-making.

And as a Congressperson, he has more of a public platform in general than anyone at that meeting. Sorry, he doesn't get special treatment.

:hi:

:hi:

I just wish more people here would go out there and talk to the occupiers, sit through a meeting, and see what the process is, rather than falling for reactionary media coverage. People just don't seem to get it. Because it is so different from our top-down politics.

*sigh*

I suppose it was just a matter of time before the movement turning on it's own.

The movement is to represent the disenfranchised. While this particular congressman may have a good history, he is still a congressperson who has a public platform to speak all the time. He doesn't get a free pass to interrupt a General Assembly meeting.

He seemed to understand that more than most people reacting negatively on this thread.

He could have spoken at just about any other time, but not in the middle of a meeting with an agenda where procedural votes need to be taken about the day-to-day issues of the occupation.

I shouldn't be surprised, but I am, at how many people are falling for reactionary RW propaganda, taking this situation out of context and making ridiculous assumptions and conclusions from it.

I know exactly what you mean about ridiculous assumptions and conclusions since my comment was in reply to the OP turning on the OWSers. You missed that but then, your assumptions and conclusions were already drawn.

I hope you can see why I took it the opposite way. I just never considered that the OP was ever truly a supporter (based on his history) and actually changed his mind due to this. It seemed clear to me that he had an agenda and I read your post as agreement with him.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

people protesting Wall Street. Last time, if I recall, they were somehow responsible for Bank of America's online banking system outage.

Somehow I doubt you ever were an "ally" of the movement.

n/t

Nailed that.

:thumbsup:

Mr. Lewis was in no way disrespected. He was not on the list of speakers, not invited to speak in advance. Most everyone was happy he came and he agreed to give us a few words AFTER scheduled business was conducted. The meeting went long, he could not wait and excused himself before speaking.

Another case of the MSM being fuckheads and someone listening to their shit making snap judgements about shit they don't know anything about.

I was unable to attend and got a different view from that ten minuet vid. Should have known it didn't have all the facts....a conservative posted it on youtube.
The same thing happened with the last protest I attended in Atlanta in support of Wisconsin. Some idiot teabagger posted a vid that showed little of what really happened at that event too.

You know, the people who post comments to on-line versions of local papers who get paid by the Koch Bros?

The word was that the OWS people are racists elites, why, just look at what they did to poor Congressman Lewis!

Never mind that when the Teabaggers did it they thought it was Just Dandy.

extremely respectful and glad he was there. Frankly, this is a staffing Fuck Up in the Congressman's office. Had someone done their due diligence, a pre-arranged time for him to come and speak to the group could have been pre-planned. Its a bit assuming of his staffers to just show up and expect the entire group to make concessions around the Congressman's schedule. This is the People's movement. Reality is, he works for them; not the other way around. He should have done more of a Jesse Ventura thing... show up, listen, engage and become a better "worker" for his constituents. The Occupier Movement is trying to get the Govt to work for the 99%, not just the top 1% who have an ear all the time to our reps... Also, I believe that this was the first meeting in Atlanta. So, there was a lot of preliminary work that needed to be done. Lewis' staffers put him and the Occupiers in a really shitty position of choosing to do the business or letting him speak because he's Congressman Lewis. Sucky all the way around.

His contributions to the civil rights movement were given great respect, as well they should be.

Way to dramatically jump to conclusions.

Geez. Enjoy your run. You clearly need to get some energy out.

It was a procedural issue which he agreed with, and NOT an insult to him at all. He had to leave before the meeting was over, so was unable to stay and speak as he was invited to do, AFTER the meeting was over.

Who needs Rightwingers to distort stuff when Democrats do such a great job on their own?



Maybe next time you should find out the facts and let people like Lewis speak for himself, since he did just that and he does not agree with you at all. The man is an adult. Naturally he understand the democratic process in place.

Unred'd for hysterical misinterpretation of the facts.

had no problem with the events, why should you?

Many on here really appear to have no clue about democratic consensus. I get the sense they just want the Occupy movement to become their own version of the Tea Baggers, with George Soros and his ilk replacing the Koch brothers in their roles.

If the group has decided to act in the consensus model, there can be no exceptions made,or the whole thing falls apart. I am not saying I agree with their choice of model, but I do respect their right to follow it if that is what the group has agreed to. I also, (and in this I am much more firm in my opinion), completely applaud the group not allowing a pre-existing power player from the broken, corrupt 2-party sham US system to come in and 'occupy' their agenda.

Lewis was more than welcome to stay and participate under the group rules. He made the choice to leave. I would respect him even more than I do (and I do respect his contributions to the US civil rights movement) if he chose to leave the Democratic Party, and govern as an independent. The whole Occupy movement will only work if it is truly about revolution, not reform. The US system is beyond reform, as the systemic controllers own the votes of the vast majorities of both parties, and thus own the corrupt form of oligarchic capitalism that this political corporate fascist system enables and strengthens.

If all the Occupy movements are co-opted by the foundations of the so-called professional left (so far they have resisted this, more or less), and simply become a quasi-appendage of the Democrat party, then the movement is doomed to failure.

Why does the US, no matter what stripe politically, bash bash bash 3rd, 4th, hell, 5th parties? The American 2 party is broken, it isn't going to be 'fixed', it is designed to simply project and project the power of the systemic controllers.

If Obama isn't example number one of this, well, I simply do not know what it will take to wake you up.

That said, I am so much more hopeful for the American left to adapt and prosper outside this rigged game.

they oppose the movement maybe because it is the first independent movement that cannot be co-opted by either Political Party. Moveon, eg, became part of the Democratic Party and lost a lot of respect when they opted for access over speaking out when the Party did not want them to. What have any of these partisan organizations accomplished in the end? Nothing has changed, after all the donations, the petitions, the emails, phone calls etc.

Most people figured out several years ago that contacting Congress is a total waste of time and I don't know why the Liberal Organizations continued to use those methods. Congress doesn't respond the people. Now the people have left them to their DC bubble and are building something new and unless THEY get on board with the people, they will be left behind.

The reason this has succeeded to the extent it has so far is precisely because it is not attached to any political party.

Great post, most people do get it. Glenn Beck's blog posted this with the slant that it was an insult to Rep. Lewis. But that's what you'd expect from Beck.

Because it is not true poutrage until the wittle foot stamping occurs.

high praise from Lewis to Occupy Atlanta. :toast: