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Catholic Doctor Explains Native American Prayer He Delivered at Arizona Memorial

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Zephie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:16 PM
Original message
Catholic Doctor Explains Native American Prayer He Delivered at Arizona Memorial
(CNSNews.com) - Wednesday night’s memorial service for the shooting victims in Tucson did not open with a prayer from a Jewish rabbi, a Protestant minister or a Catholic priest--it began with a Native American “blessing” that left many puzzled about what it meant and why it was performed.

The prayer, which did not use the word "God" and did not make the traditional request for God’s comfort for the bereaved that many might have expected, did mention the Creator and called for "honoring" the Seven Directions, including “Father Sky” and "Mother Earth”--and remembering our "fellow creatures" who "crawl on the earth” and “slither on the earth.”

The blessing was presented by Dr. Carlos Gonzales, an associate professor at the University of Arizona College of Medicine.

“I was asked by the university to give a traditional Native American blessing,” Gonzales told CNSNews.com late Thursday. “This is the type of blessing that we give at memorial services to open up a ceremony. A medicine man will do a variation of it to open up a pow-wow. It’s basically a recognition of the powers of the seven directions and how they influence human beings--and how each direction has a certain characteristic; that when you pray to that direction, you ask for the inspiration that comes from that direction.”

The eight-minute oration Gonzales prayed Wednesday night before a crowd of more than 14,000 at the University of Arizona’s McKale Memorial Center may have sounded strange to many Americans.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/native-american-invocation-az-memorial-w
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. I was fine with it
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. i guess i'm more alarmed at americans who are so unfamiliar with first nations tradition
that they found this 'strange'.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You said it. nt
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. me too. n/t
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. It was beautiful!
Really beautiful!
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. I thought it was beautiful and it meant a lot to me although I'm
not Native American.
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chemenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. We can't have that ... Oh, No!!!
It's not Christian!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's actually VERY Christian, maybe even more Christian than a lot of self-proclaimed Christians
are, if you consider what Jesus really said--"love thy neighbor," which is pretty much all that he said--and if you consider real Christians like St. Francis, Mother Theresa, Thomas Merton, Fr. Daniel Berrigan, the Catholic Workers, the Quakers and others who stick to that pure teaching and don't get all pious and punitive and authoritarian.

Love and respect each other and all critters, human and otherwise. Be brothers and sisters to each other. Very simple, very profound.

Aldous Huxley called it "the Perennial Philosophy."

True religion is neither sectarian, nor disputational, nor dogmatic, nor authoritarian, nor anybody's property, nor full of edicts and anathemas, nor is it limited by any border or party to any violent dispute, exclusion or oppression. It is the common wisdom of humankind and possibly of sentient life everywhere. And it is very simple: love, kindness, respect, thinking of the other.

Native Americans wisely add a sense of direction to their prayers. I have always liked this. It's so practical as well as expansive. Here you are on Mother Earth, with your head in the stars seeking Fatherly approval. Locate yourself, in relation to it all. Mind in the heights, feet on the ground, in touch with the winds from every corner. Exactly here--in the middle of North, South, East and West.

Those who "conquered the West" could not appreciate the universal nature of Native American religion, most of them. They were ill-taught, self-righteous hooligans who suffered from a despicable religious heritage in which that pure message--"Love thy neighbor"--had been hijacked by popes and kings, and most particularly, by a patriarchal order which viewed Mother Earth as a slattern to be ravaged, for their own power-mongering purposes. It was this materialistic, patriarchal tyranny, pounded by centuries of propaganda into every European and English mind--and about as opposed to what Jesus said, as night from day--that met head on with a culture that reveres Mother Earth as well as Father Sky. The Native Americans were the civilized ones. They weren't always perfect but they did and do perceive the "perennial philosophy" that only a few Christians from England and Europe had even the faintest glimpse of, their minds had been so polluted by the hijackers of Christianity.

And if they don't recognize it now--with multinational corporations and war profiteers having hijacked Christianity once again--it is no wonder. If they associate Christianity with property (Jesus and the earliest Christians were above all communal), if they associate it with the nation state and killing "enemies" ("Love they neighbor"), if they think it supports not giving poor people medical care or executing criminals or hating immigrants or cutting taxes for the rich or deregulating big business--it's because their brains have been washed with this toxic stream of bullshit and they still don't get it.

Love, kindness, respect, think of the other. And, while you're at it, locate yourself--and not just with a GPS system.





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Zephie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. +1000!
I was absolutely not expecting such a wonderful response. Thank you very, very much. :hug:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. You're welcome!
:grouphug:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Lovely post!
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. You made lots of good points.
However, you threw in No true Scotsman. That is a logical fallacy.
Christians are self identifying. It's an absolutely meaningless label.

Mother Theresa was a fraud. Christopher Hitchens investigated and found that she spent NOTHING on relieving the suffering of the so called patients in her so called hospital. She flew around the world in private jets and her bookkeeper said that they were allowed to spend NOTHING on their personal needs. The patients did not appreciate the fact that she let them suffer. I assume she thought that suffering was redemptive. I call bullshit on that one.

Jesus also said, "I come not in peace but with a sword" and lots and lots of other violent and nonsensical things. That's why the bible is a really awful book to get your morality from. They were ignorant, superstitious, and had no interest in science or exploration. That's not adequate for the 21st century. You ignored that, like every Christian I run into does.



Yes, there are good Christians and bad Christians and I am able to tell the difference by their behavior.

Please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Christopher Hitchens is a great source
:eyes:

I tire of the shouts of "No True Scotsman" every time someone tries to educates nonbelievers about what Christian faith consists of. Ironically, the people who argue "No True Scotsman" are the ones who have a tenuous grasp of logical fallacies. Being a Scot (or a member of any nationality) is a matter of birth, and is fixed; being a member of a religion is a matter of conscience. It is not simply a matter of "self-identifying" as a Christian, because words mean things. You can't be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus existed, even if, for some reason, you insist on calling yourself "Christian." Similarly, you can't be a Christian if you don't believe in following the Sermon on the Mount, the linchpin of Christ's teachings. Is someone still a "progressive" if they oppose universal healthcare, gay rights, and support pre-emptive war? Even if they call themselves "progressives"? But what about No True Scotsman? Doesn't that entitle anyone to be a "progressive" if they decide they are? If not, then why should it entitle anyone to call themselves a "Christian"?
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Lots of hateful people call themselves Christians.
Jesus said lots of hateful stuff that's in the Gospels.

You say Christians must believe in the Sermon on the Mount.

I thought most Protestants declared the Apostles Creed. That says nothing about the Sermon on the Mount. It recites the beliefs of people about the life of Jesus and the doctrines they hold. I can recite it from memory (I was raised Presbyterian) and it says NOTHING about The Sermon on the Mount.

Your definition of Christians fails. Christians are self identifying. And they are responsible for their actions.


Don't use "progressive" as a strawman, either.

Have you actually read anything Hitchens has written? He's accurate in his reporting. People attack the messenger because they don't like the message. You have said nothing substantive to attack the veracity of his reporting on Mother Theresa.
He refuses to give religious people a pass for their actions because of religion.


So far you've struck out.


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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Being a christian.
I think the only things you need to believe in to be a christian are original sin and substitutionary atonement (by Jesus). Original sin is based on a fairy tale, and substitutionary atonement is a fake solution to the nonexistent problem of original sin, but that's a different question.


That or as I said above, The Apostles' Creed.

Your definition of christian as "believing in the Sermon on the Mount" is wrong.

Christians are self identifying.

And responsible for their actions, whether bad or good.

It's a meaningless label because anyone can say they are a christian and do anything and act like a christian. Because of the hateful stuff in the New Testament that all the Christians I know ignore, because they don't want to deal with it.



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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Who said they weren't "responsible for their actions"?
Everyone is responsible for their actions. If "Christian" is a meaningless label, then so is progressive, because anyone can say they are a progressive. See how easy that is? It's not enough for you to dismiss that as a "strawman." What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Either words mean something, or all labels are meaningless. YOU can't pick and choose which ones mean something and which ones don't. And it looks like you're the one ignoring most of what's in the New Testament so you can continue to paint Christianity as "hateful." Talk about having a blind spot. If only non-religionists were half as logically rigorous and unbiased as they think they are :eyes:
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Jesus said lots of hateful stuff that's in the Gospels????
Really. Got an examples. One even? of something that jesus said that was hateful?

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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Start here. Haven't read your bible closely, have you?
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html


============

Matthew


Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

"The children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you." If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34

In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

===============
That's just what's in Matthew. There's plenty more at that website.


I won't worship a god that's into mass murder, thank you.





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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. You are dwelling on a minor point.
Christopher Hitchens can tear Mother Teresa down, but how many hospitals did he start, for the most neglected people on the face of this earth--the poor of Calcutta? I'm sure St. Francis had his detractors, too.

My point is that the Christian message, the core teaching, the thing that Jesus repeated over and over and over again, in every way imaginable, in straightforward words, in parable and in action, was "Love thy neighbor." Wrong race? Wrong tribe? Wrong nationality? Rich? Poor? Criminal? "Scum of the earth"? "Fallen woman" ? "Magistrate"? Fisherman? Doesn't matter. They are ALL your "brother."

I think it's quite remarkable how consistent this message is throughout the New Testament, despite its many, many translations, Bowdlerizations, editings, expurgations, banned and suppressed versions, interpolations by people with "agendas" ("Thou art Peter and upon this rock, blah, blah, blah,") and other history, and despite all the questions about its authors, their motives, when various parts were written, the addendums (Paul's poisonous dictates) and so on, the message, "Put aside all these differences and love human beings, period" is astonishingly clear.

I imagine that this was why the "Fathers of the Church" and especially the institution-builders of Rome suppressed the Bible for centuries, because it wasn't what THEY were about. They monopolized reading, tolerated vast ignorance and illiteracy and conducted their affairs in Latin. Virtually no one could read what Jesus was reported to have actually said. The contradiction between what the powermongers did and what the New Testament said is excruciating. It often reminds me of our Corporate Rulers of today and their excruciating lies about "freedom and democracy." They are as monolithic and as undemocratic as the Medieval Church.

So here's what I think happened, which makes it irrelevant whether Mother Teresa had flaws, or whether Jesus even existed or not: Every once in a while, human beings get the notion that they are equal and rise up and challenge systems of inequality. They know that they are equal, despite everything that society imposes on them to the contrary, because human brains are constructed that way--open to independent thought, aware of their own creativity, separateness, importance and EQUALITY.

This notion of equality was erupting among Roman slaves and among the "Plebes" (whom the Roman elite had educated) and even among members of the elite. The Roman elite themselves had some notions of equality. They conferred "Roman citizenship" (equality) on leaders, people of merit, business people and others in the colonies, and even on slaves who became persons of merit. They just didn't extend it to everybody, which was more a practical, economic decision than it was contempt for anyone's race, religion or other status. In any case, their practice of universal education and literacy reflected a kind of recognition that merit may arise anywhere. And there were numerous rebellions among this educated underclass in Rome and everywhere in their empire.

The Jews, as a colonized people, were also rebellious and their kingdom was at a particularly important cultural crossroads of Greek, Roman, Gnostic and eastern and far eastern philosophies. But the Jews were too insular. Their leaders were trying to preserve Jewish culture, traditions, history and beliefs amidst the imposition of Roman rule, and had become a parody of themselves and had enriched themselves as Rome's servants. Possibly there was a Jesus who came along, influenced by the Gnostic equality teachings and/or Mithras and/or far eastern philosophies and/or by some strains of Greek/Roman "demos", and said, "Wait a minute! We're all equal. Everybody counts. Don't cut yourself off from the Samaritans. Don't spit on the prostitute. Love they neighbor!" Whether some actual person conceived this great inspiration and spread it around, or an organizing group invented him, it was a movement--yet another eruption of human beings recognizing and asserting their equality.

I think that "equality" and "divinity" meant virtually the same thing. "You are God." "I am God." "He is God." "She is God." We are all equal. We all have the divine spark--that independent, creative, rebellious thing in our brains, probably evolved because innovative human beings did a lot better at survival than those stuck in rote patterns. Jesus said--or a rebellions social group said, "The kingdom is within you." The later powermongers of the Christian movement--and their inheritors to this day--made the "divinity" of Jesus alone into a fanatical dictate by which to impose THEIR rule on others, but the person or group of people who started this never meant to "deify" Jesus; they meant to "deify" everybody. That is the core message that survives.

When this happens among human beings, it is always a fundamental challenge to the power and wealth establishment of the day. It also acquires the cultural characteristics of the people who start it and re-start it, throughout history. This cultural detritus is a lot of what see and have in "christian" theology and "christian" institutions today--possibly the worst of it in this creaky, creepy monolith in Rome, but also in other strains, like the nutty "Bible thumpers" of our south and midwest, and the Puritan fanatics who greatly influenced American colonial culture.

This imposition of a cultural detritus on the pure notion of human equality is similar to the Russian Tsarist/Stalinist form of communism that got spread around the world. Communism in and of itself is not bad. It is in fact a very good idea to hold lands and wealth in common and to put the common good above individual greed--as small farmers did in England before the "enclosure" laws and as Native Americans did, before the whackos from Europe came over and fenced everything off. But Stalinist communism IS bad--was nothing more than Tsarist tyranny by another name. And THAT's what got imported to the U.S.--not equality but wretched authoritarianism--that is, the cultural detritus of a people who had never known democracy, and who were prey to a dictator, got imposed on the purer idea of equality--economic equality--that communism was and is. This is one of the reasons the communist movement failed in the U.S. It was very strong at one time, but it attracted authoritarians who drove the others out, and Stalinism, of course, gave the capitalists an easy handle on demonizing the idea of the "common good." It was yet another equality movement that got hijacked by powermongers.

It seems to me that you are reacting to this "cultural detritus" that has accumulated thousands of years of garbage in its train--modern Christianity. You don't want to think that it's worth any smart person's consideration, and I can hardly blame you for that, considering the history of Christianity in Europe and England, except that I think it is a myopic view. Would you dismiss the notion of democracy because George Bush claimed he was for it, or because it is such a tattered, broken mess, hijacked by multinational corporations and war profiteers, in the USA today? Would you dismiss it because Thomas Jefferson wrote one of its signature documents and he was a slave owner? You need to better understand what moves people.

Christianity--real Christianity--inspired the civil rights movement in the 1960s (and among slaves and abolitionists long before that). Why? Because Christianity-as expressed in the New Testament--is about EQUALITY. We are all brothers and sisters under the skin and despite all differences. It speaks to the core of human independence, dignity and creativity that we all perceive about ourselves, whatever society tries to impose on us as a self-concept. That message comes through--"love thy neighbor" because "thy neighbor" is EQUAL--in the New Testament. I It has inspired the "Liberation Theology" movement in Latin America, whereby priests and nuns have put themselves in the way of fascist bullets because they believe in the EQUALITY and thus the righteous struggle of the poor. They get this from "Love thy neighbor" not from the Pope. They got it from the same place Martin Luther King got it from--the New Testament (and he, too, saw the universality of it, in Gandhi).

The EQUALITY message of the New Testament inspired Mother Theresa and many others in her movement, whatever her problems with celebrity or her "conservative" theological attachments. Her notion was that a disease infested, starvation-ridden, homeless bit of "trash" on the putrid streets of Calcutta was EQUAL--deserves love and care, just like anybody else. I don't care about her failures, whatever they were (and I really don't trust Christopher Hitchens on this or any matter). What I care about is the IDEA of EQUALITY and how it passes from culture to culture, and erupts as various kinds of rebellions and anti-establishment activities, and moves people to rise above their social conditions and recognize "the spark of divinity" in themselves and others.

And, really, my only point, above, is that Native Americans "got it" better than the "christians" who slew them. They understood the core teaching of Christianity better, far better, than the disturbed, propagandized, so-called "christians" from Europe and England who weren't able to recognize Native Americans as EQUAL, because of the dreadfully bad uses to which the Christian institutions had been put in their native countries

This core teaching had developed among Native Americans on its own, the result of their own wisdom, and included the equality--that is, the sacredness, the "spark of divinity," the dignity--of all creatures of the "Great Spirit" and of the Earth, our mother. This is a recognizably Christian teaching, right there in the New Testament, stated over and over and over again--except for the baggage of the 5th to 21st century patriarchal lunatics who STILL demean and, indeed, hate "God the Mother" in us all. All references to her (the "Magdalen") as being equal were edited out, and only vestiges of her importance remain, because they couldn't be removed without destroying certain stories. But in those vestiges we see that women were equal in this movement, and from the earlier (Gnostic) gospels (the banned gospels) we see this as well. The Gnostics openly acknowledge and worshipped "God the Mother."

That "divine spark" is IN us. It is not some outside force. It is interior--it is our very consciousness, independence and creativity--which we share with every other human being, and, in the Native American and Buddhist view--a bigger, more wondrous form of "Christianity"--which we share with all creation.

This is what the bumper sticker "What would Jesus do?" MEANS. The equality message, the kindness message--"Love thy neighbor"--comes through loud and clear in the New Testament. It is pervasive in the New Testament--whoever is responsible for originating it in circa 1 A.D. in Judea and later writing it down--but it is by no means exclusive to the New Testament. It is found independently everywhere in the world. And it exists within, and independent of, every institution that has adopted and perverted the word "Christianity"--ever subversive of the powermongers who create institutions.

To deny this is too easy. You are denying the core inspiration of millions of people and many great social movements. In a sense, you are denying human beings their equality, by opposing what you think is a superior intellectual notion--that's it's all bunk. Well, it's not. It is the basis, in our culture, of all that progressives and democrats with a small d believe. Where do you think the notion of "human rights" comes from? Why would we advocate "New Deal" and other social programs, if human beings are not inherently equal--inherently worthy of love and care, inherently part of our family, inherently dignified, all born with that "spark of the divine" that unites us?

The irony of early communism is that, though they claimed to be "godless," they were better Christians than the assholes running Europe and Russia at the time. They believed in EQUALITY. Everybody has a say. Everybody eats. Everybody has a chance. We're all in this together. But their historical circumstance was so fraught with contrary pressures that they really couldn't pull it off on that grand scale (--though they seem to have pulled it off on a very tiny scale, in Cuba). Whatever any communist, leftist, progressive or any advocate of equality SAYS about what he or she believes, they cannot really escape where they got that idea FROM, in this culture.

Debunk Jesus all you want. And I really don't care if he was an historical person or not (though I tend to think he was), or what little weird bits there are in the New Testament after about 15 centuries of powermongers messing with it, nor even his alleged dwelling upon "the Father" (which I really think was interpolated into these stories by the 3rd to 5th century patriarchalists and powermongers; i.e., that "the Magdalen" was equally important to him or to the initial group that started this EQUALITY movement, in which they shared communal lives and anyone--a woman, a child, a slave--could preside as "priest" at their religious ceremonies, a function that was designated by drawing lots!). SOMEHOW that message of EQUALITY--that we all share equally in the "divine spark"--remained the pervasive message in the New Testament, and either inspired, or underpinned and justified, virtually every assertion of equality in our culture.

This notion erupted in Judea two millennia ago, from a mix of Jewish precepts and traditions with other cultural influences--and has erupted, time and again, within our culture, ever since--but it has also erupted in other cultures, completely apart from our cultural roots--for instance, in Buddhism and in Indigenous groups in the Americas, with their reverence for all living things. Our notion of equality is focused on human beings and it is our most progressive notion. How many of the western scientists of the 20th and 21st centuries would ever have had the opportunities to do what they have done--the marvels of physics, astronomy, genetic sequencing, engineering, medicine and so forth--if it had not been for the fundamental concept, straight out of the New Testament, that everyone is equal--everyone is educable, everyone has a RIGHT to education, everyone has "the spark"?

The notion of social good simply does not develop in a vacuum. It comes stamped with a cultural story that gets passed down through time, along with core ideas such as equality, which are picked up by new groups of people, and newly inspired leaders and teachers, and applied to their particular set of problems. Equality has a long heritage which came to us through the New Testament. And, once the Bible was translated into the languages of ordinary people, and began to be printed en masse, revolution after revolution began to occur, all aimed at equality. It is terribly tragic that most of the European and English "New Worlders" applied this notion to themselves but were blind to it in the Native Americans. Even the slaves and indentured servants and transported prisoners harbored notions of equality and rebelled again and again, until, at last, those kinds of inequality were ended--by abolitionists and freedom lovers who took their inspiration right out of the New Testament.

I am NOT saying that Christianity is "the true religion" or that anyone has to believe in Jesus, or believe or do anything that violates their inherent dignity and equality as a thinking being. I am saying something entirely different--that Christianity is a strain of the "perennial philosophy" inherent in human beings by which we perceive our equality. This notion comes to us through the New Testament which evolved from previous strains of the "perennial philosophy" in Roman, Greek, Jewish and far eastern culture. The idea of equality is the same as the "spark of the divine" in everyone that Jesus or the group that invented Jesus taught. It is universal, but we got it from the New Testament, and, sad to say--for reasons that are too complex to discuss here--the perversion of Christianity into an institution of control and dogmas and monolithic organization occurred in the aftermath and is with us still. Both things are with us still--the idea that we are equal, and also some rather ugly manifestations of Christian institutional religion, still being used by powermongers.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I understand what you are saying.
About the core concept of "love thy neighbor as thyself".

That is a valuable concept. However, the patriarchal control freaks use the bad parts to control people, instead of to liberate them. The 1700s Enlightenment concepts of "all men are created equal" is an extension of that concept.

However, I do not believe in original sin, and believe it to be a soul-destroying concept. I think Adam and Eve are just a fairy tale, like all myths, invented to explain human nature. Telling children they are evil is abusive and soul-destroying. I hate "Amazing Grace" for the word "wretch". I am not a wretch and I certainly don't want to think of anyone else as a wretch. Because of original sin we are told that we are not good enough by ourselves, that we need substitutionary atonement. Constantine promoted Christianity to consolidate his empire.

That is a negative theme that is pounded on, much more so than the positive message of "love thy neighbor as thyself" and "the kingdom of god is within you". It destroys a lot of people. I had to leave xtianity because i got sick and depressed every time I went to church and heard about what a worthless, horrible POS I am just because my parents had sex to have me.

However, I don't see any xtians disowning the negative, violent, punitive, pissed off old mass murdering god.

Secondly, do you know of any refutation of christopher hitchens' expose of Mother Teresa? I do not know of any journalists that challenged his assertion that she was not providing any medical care with her millions of dollars; that she was letting people suffer needlessly. That is not a hospital. That is a parking lot for dying people.


http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html

In this interview, Hitchens says she supported the Duvalier regime, that $50 million is a "small portion of her wealth", she provides NO medical treatment and does not send people to proper medical facilities. "Anyone who goes in hope of alleviation of serious medical conditions is making a huge mistake."

Hitchens states in this interview he has testimony of numerous witnesses to these points, and has enough material for a second book. Please tell me where this was refuted.

http://www.population-security.org/swom-96-09.htm
Quote:
One of Mother Teresa’s volunteers in Calcutta described her “Home for the Dying” as resembling photos of concentration camps such as Belsen. No chairs, just stretcher beds. Virtually no medical care or painkillers beyond aspirin, and a refusal to take a 15-year-old boy to a hospital. Hitchens adds, “Bear in mind that Mother Teresa’s global income is more than enough to outfit several first class clinics in Bengal. The decision not to do so... is a deliberate one. The point is not the honest relief of suffering, but the promulgation of a cult based on death and suffering and subjection.”

Then Hitchens notes that Mother Teresa “has checked into some of the finest and costliest clinics and hospitals in the West during her bouts with heart trouble and old age.”

The author mentions her visit to Haiti and her endorsement of the Duvaliers, the source of much deprivation of the poor in Haiti. Also, her acceptance of stolen money from Charles Keating, “now serving a ten-year sentence for his part in the savings and loan scandal.” Keating, a “Catholic fundamentalist”, gave Mother Teresa one and a quarter million dollars and “the use of his private jet.” During the course of Keating’s trial, Mother Teresa wrote Judge Ito asking clemency and asked Ito “to do what Jesus would do.” Unquote.

=======================

Small note on equality: DH is a physicist. He came up with the concept that the idea in Einstein's relativity that all observers are equal is a scientific equivalent of all people being equal.

Christianity used properly is liberation theology which the Catholic Church has tried to squelch in Latin America. Or anti-slavery activism, as the Congregationalists, Quakers and Unitarian universalists were a large part of.



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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. It sounded great to me
and familiar too since a NA blessing was done at a funeral of a friend and I have attended pow-wows
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. ... " may have sounded strange to many Americans" ...
... because we've been taught since elementary school that Native Americans are "heathens" and that heathens don't have "religion". And unfortunately, so many just sit back and believe it, rather than take some time to investigate a different culture.


:(
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. I though it was beautiful.
My wedding ceremony was ended with a Native American blessing:

The Apache Wedding Blessing

Now you will feel no rain,
for each of you will be
shelter to the other.

Now you will feel no cold,
for each of you will be
warmth to the other.

Now there is no more loneliness,
for each of you will be
companion to the other.

Now you are two bodies,
but there is only one
life before you.

Go now to your dwelling place,
to enter into the days
of your togetherness.

And may your days
be good and long
upon the earth.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. I learned from it
How can that be bad?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. Very nice!
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hamsterjill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. I really loved it!
I thought this was one of the highlights of the memorial service!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. A friend taught me this on a camping trip about twenty years ago.
Thanks Barb.

I still find it moving and a great expression of gratitude, despite as I get older I just get more fed up with the whole idea of prayer to begin with.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. In Native American rituals this is called


opening a sacred space.

Addressing the seven directions is always performed in spiritual rites. I like this prayer
a lot.

So Dr. Gonzales opened a sacred space with his prayer so that all present would be held in the
embrace of the Great Sprit who sits at the center of all creation.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. The weird reactions to this beautiful invocation of Spirit were extremely disappointing.
Edited on Tue Jan-18-11 07:03 PM by scarletwoman
How can there still be so many people in this country without even the barest minimum of knowledge about the traditions of the First People? It kinda blew my mind, in a bad way.

I've been around American Indian ceremonies for most of my adult life. I've lived on a reservation, I've had good friendships with several Native spiritual leaders, and my last partner was an Ojibwe healer who died in 2000.

Listening to Dr. Gonzales' prayer was an absolute joy for me, and as natural to my mind and soul as love. I feel sorry for all those whose knowledge and experience is so limited and whose perception is so closed off from such elemental beauty and simplicity.

sw
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. It was a joy to hear.
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SteveG Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. I thought it was appropriate
But then my wife and I had this Apache wedding blessing used at our wedding.

"Now you will feel no rain for each of you will be shelter to the other.
Now you will feel no cold for each of you will be warmth to the other.
Now there is no more loneliness for each of you will be companion to the other.
Now you are two bodies but there is only one life before you.
Go now to your dwelling place to enter into the days of your togetherness.
And may your days be good and long upon the earth."
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Zephie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Are you and ohheckyeah married?
:hi:
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Beautiful blessing!
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. I too enjoyed the opening prayer
Edited on Tue Jan-18-11 11:14 PM by AsahinaKimi
and found it interesting. I am not surprised by those who were "dismayed", "confused" or "insulted" because there are still many people in this country, who are under the delusion that America is a "Christian" nation.

People in Arizona are well aware of the Native American connections there, as are many places, but unfortunately, there are still many who can not tolerate cultures that are not their own.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. I find it appalling and racist that so many people are still so ignorant about
the peoples (many different groups, not all one mass) who were here FIRST. And are STILL HERE, despite genocide.

And it creeps me out and sends chills up my spine that some people react to a call to respect our planet, each other, and all living creatures with fear and anger. Who believe that the only valid spiritual or religious tradition or feeling is centered on some remote giant spirit on another plane, and never ever centered on the beauty and life that's right here, all around us, all the time.

I have never, ever liked any whiff of thinking that this world is a worthless, fallen "vale of tears" and that all our attention should be focused on the Great Beyond. No. This world is where we are born, where we eat, where we sleep, where we love, where we live, where we die. Of course it's not perfect, but I've never believed that sacred=perfect. If we can't hold our home sacred, how we can we love any other world? That is what I loved so much about that blessing. It's about who we are and where we are right now.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. I found it interesting, more like a learning experience as to what their beliefs are.
I think people should have more exposure and be more open minded towards other religions and beliefs.

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